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hendybadger
07-02-2010, 12:52
Now most of us have managed to get our hands on the Tyranid Codex, I have been thinking.
Where to take my army now? Which direction to go in?
In the last Codex I ran a Nid-Zilla / Genestealer force.
Not for power gaming, just because those were my faourite models.
In the 5th ed Codex there is so much more to choose from.
Im keeping the MCs and Genestealers and expanding the army.
Lots more warriors in Troop for Synapse and comabat.
More MCs. Tyrgons, Mawlocs and Tyrannofexes included.
But now im thinking about adding more mid-sized creatures. Hive Guard, Zoanthropes and Raveners.
All of this is going to give me much more variety than I had before but would still allow me to run Nid-Zilla if I wanted to.

So.
Where are you taking your Hive Fleet with the new Codex?
Lots of changes or staying the same?

Corpse
07-02-2010, 12:58
Hormagaunt force with adrenal glands to slap tanks with.
My 192 spinegaunts are all being converted to horma's, the strategy of the previous force is only stronger with the new codex.

I'm a happy carver with over 50 pounds of leftover sprues to carve out my hormagaunt talons with. I don't have to buy a thing.

Zanzibarthefirst
07-02-2010, 16:49
Warriors and raveners for me.
Since my nidzilla and stealer shock aren't what they were I'm up for a change. My stealers will lkely get used but a couple of my carnifexes might never get used again especially since i've jsut bought a trygon and intent buying another one or two.

I still have very little interest in gaunts. I might take the odd squad every now and then but i cannot see them being a regular feature in my armies

Hoodwink
07-02-2010, 17:29
I have a few setups, but I'm looking heavily into my T6 army. Practically every model has T6 in it except the Warrior Prime (Who I'm putting in a squad of Carnies to take advantage of T6 majority rule, wound allocation, and cheaper regen). Only other non-T6 are my basic termagants, which are about 50 before Tervigon pooping.

Also using Onslaught on 2 Tervigons since FNP is practically useless with MC T6 creatures. Most of the fire you take that is of much of a threat are from high dmg / low AP weapons. Plan on using Onslaught to move my Carnie/Prime unit up and my Flamer Tyrannofex ASAP. Hit hard and hit fast.

Falkman
07-02-2010, 17:30
Probably gonna switch out my two Carnifexes for a Trygon and a Mawloc, other than that I'm keeping it the same, but expanding. I'm aiming for 4 MCs, 30-40 gaunts, 15 gargoyles and then a smattering of midsizers (this is at 2000 pts).

hendybadger
07-02-2010, 17:37
Warriors and raveners for me.
Since my nidzilla and stealer shock aren't what they were I'm up for a change. My stealers will lkely get used but a couple of my carnifexes might never get used again especially since i've jsut bought a trygon and intent buying another one or two.

I still have very little interest in gaunts. I might take the odd squad every now and then but i cannot see them being a regular feature in my armies

Im the same with the Gaunts. Dont have any and not getting any.
For ages it seemed like I was the only Gauntless one

Hoodwink
07-02-2010, 17:43
You can always get Devgaunts and pod them in as fairly cheap glass cannons.

LonelyPath
07-02-2010, 17:54
My Nids have remained Stealer heavy with Gaunt meat shields with a Tyrant and 2 Zoans, but I have increased the number of MCs in my army to include a Trygon and Mawloc, plus I'm midway through converting a Harpy to try out and if it's not so effective it'll still make a nice display model :)

However, I will be adding a few more Gaunts yet along with some Gargoyles and a few more Zoans and Warriors. Hive Guard I'll get eventually, but I'm in no hurry.

Rick Blaine
07-02-2010, 18:44
I always ran a balanced army, so minimal changes for me. I replaced one of my two Fexes with a Trygon Prime, gave bone swords to all my Warriors, added two Hive Guard. Made room by dropping the Flyrant for a Warrior Prime.

big squig
07-02-2010, 19:19
To the shelf.

owen matthew
07-02-2010, 19:44
Ebay baby!

Eldartank
07-02-2010, 20:53
Which way am I taking my Tyranids? Probably up the road to the local mall to do some shopping, maybe hit the food court. I might even buy each one a new set of pajamas with the feet on them.

(sorry, couldn't resist being a smarta$$.....)

I'm definitely adding a Trygon. I'm also adding about 20 Gargoyles - not necessarily the most powerful things, but well made PLASTIC Gargoyles is just too cool to pass up. And of course I'm including Old One Eye: The plastic Carnifex kit has everything needed to make a 100% legal properly modelled Old One Eye. I will also keep my 30 Hormagaunts in my army, since I did a decent jog of making them look good. My other troops will be Tyranid Warriors, so I need to add to the few I already have.

Inquisitor Engel
07-02-2010, 21:03
I will be rocking, eventually, Hive Tyrant, Carnifexes, Trygon's, Mawlocs, Tyrannofex, Hydra and anything else LARGE AND SCARY. Mainly because I really want to spend time on each of these models and not get worn out with a bunch of gaunts.

I'll probably have Genestealers and Hormagaunts for troops though.

Spinegaunt01
07-02-2010, 21:40
Not really doing anything special. Was warrior heavy back then, warrior heavy now. 2nd Ed. Hive Tyranids make awesome Tyranid primes, just a case of finding out what sort of heavy support/elites I need to take.

librerian_samae
07-02-2010, 21:54
I'm going for a tricksey deployment style army rounded out with some warriors and a carnifex and tervigon.

So thats lots of flying, deepstriking, (and outflanking genestealers) to mess with peoples target priority.

Should be fun to play, if the randomness of arivals can be got round which hopefull I can manage. :D

the_picto
07-02-2010, 22:20
Currently, I'm going stealer heavy. My 1500pt army has 16 ymgarls, 22 toxin stealers and 2 broodlords. Next I'm going to expand the number of hormagaunts and add zoanthropes and hive guards, maybe a couple of big gribblies to flavour.

Slightly dissapointed there's no stealer HQ choice, otherwise I'd probably to a pure stealer army.

Zeroth
07-02-2010, 22:30
My current plan is having 2 Tervigons as the backbone of my army, both with regeneration. They'll run around, spew termies and contest objectives.

Not quite sure what the rest of the army will be, but I'm thinking of 2 mawlocs, for a mobile strike force that can mess up objective campers in that last turn, together with the Deathleaper.

The punch of my army is suppose to be 6 Hive Guards, Warriors with deathspitters and probably some genestealers. Still gonna have to do some playtesting before my final 1750 army is decided

Axis
07-02-2010, 23:19
Im going for less monstrous creatures. Just 1 hive tyrant and 1 tyrannofex.

Then lots of little squads 2x10 terms, 2x10 gargoyles. Outflanking hormagaunts w/ toxin sacs and some ymgarl genestealers (which have, for me, rocked!). Then add some warriors in a mycetic spore some hive guard, some zoanthropes and some tyrant guard to stop my stupidly expensive tyrant dying (i need him for hive commander).

So far its performing well.

grg3d
07-02-2010, 23:23
Well I haven't played Tyranids since 2nd (turned to Necrons :chrome:) so I missed the Nidzilla phase...
As usual I bought the codex first then went out and bought the following

1 Hive Tyranid
1 Malwock
2 Fexs
9 Warriors
3 Zones
3 Tyranid Guard
1 Lictor (used as a Leaper)
10 Gargoyles
32 Termagants
24 Hermagunts

And a special peice for the Doom to convert so other than spore pods I think I can make an all comer's list :D

Vexbane
07-02-2010, 23:52
I have a ton of Nids so I am trying a variety of things. I still need another Trygon or 2 and gargoyles. I like the new plastic models. Expensive though since I want 30. I will have to wait a bit for those.

I ordered a couple of the mega blocks plasma hatchers from ebay to use as spores. Beasts of war did a nice conversion write up on them so I decided to try it out.

I can see 3 basic types of lists that I might try:

-Stealer invasion with swarmlord and anti-tank support
-a more defensive/counterattck build with gaunts and tervigons
-a 2 tyrant drop pod/outflank style

I always played balanced lists in 4th and did well (hated Nidzilla). I am going to stick to that in this dex too.

SirSnipes
07-02-2010, 23:58
im going classic

carnifexes hive tyrant gaunts out the ass and warriors

LonelyPath
08-02-2010, 00:05
Don't forget that Stealers were among the first Nids list ;)

dude37
08-02-2010, 00:11
im not sure if my strategy wasn't possible in last edition but i like to have a ton of genestealers, a hive tyrant with guards, 9 lictors (or 6 with deathleaper) and trygon primes or mawlocs if i have extra pts. basically i try to make as much of my force deep strike without needing synapse.
works out really well to ranged races like tau or imperial guard.

Axis
08-02-2010, 02:58
im not sure if my strategy wasn't possible in last edition but i like to have a ton of genestealers, a hive tyrant with guards, 9 lictors (or 6 with deathleaper) and trygon primes or mawlocs if i have extra pts. basically i try to make as much of my force deep strike without needing synapse.
works out really well to ranged races like tau or imperial guard.

Sounds interesting. How do you do against mech armies?

Conandoodle
08-02-2010, 06:55
I'm stoked! I've been building a Close Combat based Nid army. That is, no shooters. This dex looks like the MC's will be stronger in CC. Haven't played yet .. but looking forward to it.

Sircyn
08-02-2010, 09:43
I used to run a mixed army. For the new book I have changed a lot of my army out. My Carnifexes and HT are now gone for Trygons and Tervigons, my Warriors have gone for Hive Guard and Zoanthropes. I've put a few more stealers in and will still need to use my Termagants! I don't feel shafted by buying the new models as I play Apoc enough to get use out of my entire collection.

Mojaco
08-02-2010, 09:51
I'm going nidzilla. Never did it before, but now it doesn't seem OMFG I feel more fine playing it. Plus it's gotten cooler.

I'll likely run a Tyrant, 2x Tervigons, 3x Carnifex and 1x Trygon, with some warriors, gaunts and zoanthropes. I'll try and cram it in 1700 pts, but maybe I'll have to drop something to make that goal.

Axis
08-02-2010, 12:20
I'm going nidzilla. Never did it before, but now it doesn't seem OMFG I feel more fine playing it. Plus it's gotten cooler.

I'll likely run a Tyrant, 2x Tervigons, 3x Carnifex and 1x Trygon, with some warriors, gaunts and zoanthropes. I'll try and cram it in 1700 pts, but maybe I'll have to drop something to make that goal.

As cool as it sounds i suspect you wont get that into 1700 pts. Your monstrous creatures alone from that list are 1200 points. That is without any upgrades...

azimaith
08-02-2010, 13:25
Making do with what I have, the new list doesn't grab me enough to make me want a new army. I've always wanted to do a mycetic spore pod army but without a good way to make it work its not worthwhile to spend the time and money on.

Netfreakk
08-02-2010, 14:40
I'm going:

Swarmlord w/ guards

termagaunts

Tervigons

Zoanthropes w/ pod

Doom w/ pod

2 CC Fex

Trygon Prime

=D

Mojaco
08-02-2010, 16:38
As cool as it sounds i suspect you wont get that into 1700 pts. Your monstrous creatures alone from that list are 1200 points. That is without any upgrades...

Yes, but they barely need upgraded. Only the Tyrant's acid blood, Tervigons psychic powers (FNP on 3 fexes? Yes please!) and the warriors could use deathspitters to hurt rhinos, but the rest barely interests me.

Codsticker
08-02-2010, 21:42
I bought a very(x2) badly painted 'Nid army off ebay a couple of years ago just to have another army to play around with. I never intended to actually paint it or expand upon it. However... This past fall I decided that I would do a Genestealer infestation. At this point I have 35 painted up (only another 25 to go).

That is direction my 'Nid army is taking.

Vepr
08-02-2010, 21:51
I have gone more swarm oriented with support from the mid sized bugs and just a few big bugs for support. I am having fun with it so far. I was tempted to shelf my nids but unless the new BA dex is really impressive I am going to keep playing them.

de Selby
08-02-2010, 22:21
Interestingly, when I added it up, my ~4000 pts of models under the last codex is almost exactly the same cost under the new codex, and although the relative effectiveness of many units has gone up or down, apparently randomly, I'd say the army as a whole is about as effective (not terribly) as it was before.

My 'new direction' is mostly determined by the new models. So my basic list will have Trygons and gargoyles in it. I've given up on carnifexes, and gaunts (which I soldiered on with last edition, but in the absence of tervigons they're even worse than before...), and broken out all my poison hormies instead. I intend to convert hive guard and clearly I don't have enough zoanthropes (only one). I'm painting up Space Hulk genestealers at the moment.

MystheDevourer
08-02-2010, 23:14
I have been rolling with a Tervigon in the troops, some Devgants, Tooled out Hormagaunts, couple medium sized broods of warriors led by primes ( I honestly think that the Tyrant is not worth it. . . ), A biovore Brood, Hive Guard brood or 2 depending on what I am feeling, and my Favorite, a Zoanthrope Brood if not 2 one to DS in a Pod and one to just "float" up the field. Maybe a Mawloc to cause irritation and give the lil guys breathing room.

Angelwing
09-02-2010, 00:55
Same as usual. Pick a couple of cases and make an army out of the contents or write a themed list on a whim.

Dead Man Walking
09-02-2010, 01:06
Foam cases inside of a cardboard box in my garage.

big squig
09-02-2010, 07:15
Foam cases inside of a cardboard box in my garage.
Ditto. I just don't see this army ever being competitive.

Axis
09-02-2010, 12:10
Ditto. I just don't see this army ever being competitive.

I disagree. I think that there are some problems with the dex much like when Codex CSM was released. But there are certainly some dangerous stuff in there and there will be some very dangerous builds. Just wait 1-2 months and people will find them and exploit them. Or try find em yourself. That is what i'm doing

bluenova
09-02-2010, 13:31
Parasite of Mortrex (just for the Chest Burster factor!) with Gargoyle bodyguards.

2 scytal Carnifexes in a brood with 3 Zoanthrope herders.

A whole bunch of Genestealers - largely scytal + Broodlords

(We play at 2,000 pts)

alphastealer
09-02-2010, 15:19
Hi,

My direction is to incorporate some of the new things into my current army.

My 1650 list looks something like this:

HQ! 1x Hive Tyrant with Hive Commander, lash & bone and a heavy venom cannon.
2x Tyrant Guard

Elite 3x Hive Guard
Elite 2x Zoanthropes in a spore pod

Either: 1x Deathleaper
or 1x Doom of Malantai with spore pod

Troop
1x Tervigon with toxin, adrenal and catalyst
1x Tervigon with toxin, adrenal and catalyst
10x termagants with devourers
10x termagants with devourers

1x Trygon Prime
1x Mawloc

The idea is that the only things in my deployment zone will be The tyrant with guard, the hive guard and one tervigon. The other tervigon will outflank thanks to the tyrant; the devourer gaunts will come on from reserve and hopefully get to use the trygon hole. The doom/leaper, zoan and mawloc will be there to contest objectives and disrupt long range shooters/tanks.

I have gone off genestealers since they lost their flesh hooks. I like haumagaunts but will need to drop a tervigon to get them in.

Dead Man Walking
09-02-2010, 15:30
I disagree. I think that there are some problems with the dex much like when Codex CSM was released. But there are certainly some dangerous stuff in there and there will be some very dangerous builds. Just wait 1-2 months and people will find them and exploit them. Or try find em yourself. That is what i'm doing

Maybe in 1 to 2 months you can come up with an explanation as to why you think it takes 1 to 2 months for people to figure out how to make this codex competitive.

I really hate this explanation because we're not stupid. I play with people who took the other preview codex's (SM, SW, IG)and punched out competitive lists and play tested them with proxies and figured out the most lethal combinations before the actual codex was able to be bought by the general public.

I reject the belief that the entire gaming community is so stupid that it takes us months to process a codex to make it competitive.

Netfreakk
09-02-2010, 18:05
Maybe in 1 to 2 months you can come up with an explanation as to why you think it takes 1 to 2 months for people to figure out how to make this codex competitive.

I really hate this explanation because we're not stupid. I play with people who took the other preview codex's (SM, SW, IG)and punched out competitive lists and play tested them with proxies and figured out the most lethal combinations before the actual codex was able to be bought by the general public.

I reject the belief that the entire gaming community is so stupid that it takes us months to process a codex to make it competitive.

My name is Netfreakk and I approve this message.

de Selby
09-02-2010, 21:24
One (IMO valid) complaint about the new dex is that some units are obviously better than others. I (and others who have said the same thing) suspect that probably the optimal tyranid tournament list includes

3*10 termagants
3 tervigons
3 Hive Guard
3 Zoanthropes
3 trygons/mawlocs
Tyrant?

More or less according to points limit. I'm not a tournament player myself so I expect them to thrash out exactly what's optimal over time, including oddities like the DoM. I would consider a list like this quite 'competitive' with some limitations.

Whether you consider it competitive depends on your definition of competitive, somwehere between
a) has some chance of winning against a tournament list (nearly all lists from all codices can 'compete' in this sense)
and
b) has the best chance of winning against a tournament list (only one list from one codex satisfies this criterion: in the current metagame it is probably some kind of IG, as far as I can tell).

Axis
09-02-2010, 21:40
Maybe in 1 to 2 months you can come up with an explanation as to why you think it takes 1 to 2 months for people to figure out how to make this codex competitive.

I really hate this explanation because we're not stupid. I play with people who took the other preview codex's (SM, SW, IG)and punched out competitive lists and play tested them with proxies and figured out the most lethal combinations before the actual codex was able to be bought by the general public.

I reject the belief that the entire gaming community is so stupid that it takes us months to process a codex to make it competitive.

I guess I take your point. It doesn't take months to figure out how to make things competative. I do feel it takes a little while to streamline things and reach optimal lists but that could just be my processes which take longer than most.

What i do think is true is that it takes 1-2 months before the dust has settled and you can say which codexes/lists are the strongest.

I do think tyranids have the capacity to be very dangerous. They have some excellent choices in every slot of the force organisation chart so i just dont think they are going to turn out to be underpowered and uncompetative.

dude37
10-02-2010, 01:01
Sounds interesting. How do you do against mech armies?

IMO my army would do awesome against mech armies and space marines, because all my guys have rending or are really big. (haven't tried it though)
but i did play another game with one trygon prime and a deathleaper against tau, the trygon is beast but the deathleaper got pwned :cries:

big squig
10-02-2010, 01:57
I disagree. I think that there are some problems with the dex much like when Codex CSM was released. But there are certainly some dangerous stuff in there and there will be some very dangerous builds. Just wait 1-2 months and people will find them and exploit them. Or try find em yourself. That is what i'm doing
Well, I'm 10 games in now with a 100% loss record with them. I've been playing nids since second ed and this is the least competent army I've seen yet.

Vepr
10-02-2010, 02:03
Well, I'm 10 games in now with a 100% loss record with them. I've been playing nids since second ed and this is the least competent army I've seen yet.

Hivemind aneurysm? :p On a serious note do you play in a pretty much tourney list environment? I can see it in heavy meta game environment but the codex fairs alright in friendly games from my experience. I am trying to remain positive and view the codex as a challenge compared to the easy mode codices like Wolves, Orks, and IG. ;)

fwacho
10-02-2010, 03:01
I'm playing a warrior / MC list. key point is as much multi-wounds as possible to help spread those Missle Launchers around.

Although a regen list is tempting (Tervigons, Parasite, Doom) This list is tempting the heck out of me right now. I've almost got enough rippers to really make the parasite terrifying.

record with nids so far 2W 1L 1D

Draconis
10-02-2010, 03:24
Im still fluffy when it comes to building my armies. I'm aiming for 200+ models. Soon to be adding 20-40 goyles. I want that massive carpet of bugs with a few MC roaming around in there.

big squig
10-02-2010, 04:28
Hivemind aneurysm? :p On a serious note do you play in a pretty much tourney list environment? I can see it in heavy meta game environment but the codex fairs alright in friendly games from my experience. I am trying to remain positive and view the codex as a challenge compared to the easy mode codices like Wolves, Orks, and IG. ;)
We're pretty tourny minded folks, so yeah. It's just clear as day that nids are a weak codex. If you want to win in a competitive setting, you're forced to take tervigons, trygons, zoanthropes, hiveguard, and termaguants. That's it. The rest is between passable and terrible.

I still play fun and friendly games though and my favorite type of game are the ones like blitz or sabotage, so Ill get my bugs out for that. But don't ever expect to see bugs win a GT, or even come close to the top ten.

Fixer
10-02-2010, 10:59
We're pretty tourny minded folks, so yeah. It's just clear as day that nids are a weak codex. If you want to win in a competitive setting, you're forced to take tervigons, trygons, zoanthropes, hiveguard, and termaguants. That's it. The rest is between passable and terrible.

I still play fun and friendly games though and my favorite type of game are the ones like blitz or sabotage, so Ill get my bugs out for that. But don't ever expect to see bugs win a GT, or even come close to the top ten.

I have to agree with Big Squig here. However you could throw in Doom of Malantai, Gargoyles and Genestealers to the 'takeable' option. Stealers did become a lot scarier with Infiltrate and scout both built in for a small points decrease.

Far too many of the units in the army are pointless when facing the tournament metagame. Warriors, despite their supposedly 'buffed' status have actually lost a lot of their power and can only put out a fraction of their old shooting strength. Tyrants (and especially my beloved Flyrant) are now 100 points more expensive for a WS buff he didn't need, a loss of Warp field he didn't want and taking two powers most of which he'd never use. I tried using Deathleaper the other day too, where his terrifying contribution was to pop up and kill a Rhino.

With the best list I can put together I also have to face the fact that I'm going to most likely lose against every competetive Space Wolf army I ever face. Along with the Tervigon being dropped down a hole and my Warp Lances being nullified on a 4+, if I do manage to assault a unit i'm going to be hit back by 30 'reroll 1s' attacks before I even strike and then reroll 1s on armor saves. A full unit of Hormagaunts with FNP (assuming it isn't nullified by a Runepriest) is likely to be crushed on the turn it assaults by direct and overkill wounds. Even my Hive Tyrant is scared by the prospect of assaulting single Grey hunter unit in cover.

You can make some fun lists and play some nice games with the new Nids but still the issue remains that the Codex itself is deeply flawed. Most of the issues brought up with the change from 4th to 5th edition were not resolved. Internal balance is out of whack even more than the much maligned Chaos Codex and design decisions/rules for so many units are just pants-on-head retarded.

I could probably fix all these problems with one dedicated afternoon of work on a Fandex. Which makes me wonder why GW can't...

Souleater
10-02-2010, 11:10
I could probably fix all these problems with one dedicated afternoon of work on a Fandex. Which makes me wonder why GW can't...

I don't understand why the main author of a codex makes such a big difference. I thought these things were designed by a group of people. Looking in my nid dex there are over a dozen other people credited with design besides Mr Cruddace.

So why is it that I should apparently be happy that Phil Kelly is doing the Dark Eldar? What I mean does a single person seem to have so much influence on a group project that is part of a larger design studio's output?

Fixer
10-02-2010, 11:38
I don't understand why the main author of a codex makes such a big difference. I thought these things were designed by a group of people. Looking in my nid dex there are over a dozen other people credited with design besides Mr Cruddace.

I said GW, not just Cruddace :rolleyes:

However I think it's easier to reason for many people to assign the blame for bad design decisions to the incompetence of an individual rather than the incompetence of a great many people.

If the Codex was designed by a group how the hell did we end up with things like the new Lictor rules.

"So, this unit, we have some great models but no-one is using them."
"It's because they're fragile, random and their direct abilities are only useful against a handful of enemy armies since it'll probably get killed trying to tie up even a Devestator squad."
"Preferred enemy from the feeder tentacles is decent though."
"Okay, let's take that out. Right, how can we make it even worse?"
"The ability to assault on the turn it arrives is the only reason people would use them at all."
"Noted, that's outta there."
"What kind of fluffy yet pointless abilities can we add instead?"
"Okay, well it could act like a teleport homer, bringing in other deepstriking Tyranid units and a +1 to reserve rolls."
"Hang on, that sounds like it could almost be useful. We have those new Mawloc things which will have vague rules that might not allow it deepstrike on an enemy unit and use the very reason people would buy them for in the first place"
"Well, the spore and Trygons already have drop pod like rules making a homer fairly redundant."
"Better. What else?"
"The Lictor has to be on the table for a full turn before you can use the abilities, so you'd only get a benefit on Turn 3 assuming it turned up on Turn 2."
"You could have a hive tyrant with his +1 to reserves on the board to make it more likely he'll be there, but then the Lictor's additional bonus is entirely pointless."
"Genius! I think we've done it lads. Print it, it's time to go down the pub."

Souleater
10-02-2010, 11:53
My apologies I wasnt' directing my comments at you, merely questioning the current popular theory of 'certain designers bad, certain designers good'.

Jernmajoren
10-02-2010, 11:59
I think that the only kind of nid army that got a boost was the swarm, the MCs to me seems overcosted all around and hardly worth taking as whatever benefits they have are lost in lack of cover saves resulting in quick deaths when they finally get close enough to assault.
From my experience anti-tank can be solved with Zoans for heavy antitank and anything with rending for light vehicles.
Tyranids equilant of vehicles ie MCs have a cost now that makes them fairly useless for the points compared to what could have been taken instead.

Fixer
10-02-2010, 12:16
Swarm armies got a boost... sort of.

Hormagaunts aren't worth taking in a tournament army since the targets you'll be expecting to face on the top tables will simply sweep them aside and their main use falls back to being a cannon fodder unit, which the cheaper Termagaunts and winged, Coversave-To-MC Gargoyles both perform better.

Termagaunts took more-or-less a sidegrade. Devourer gaunts are as cheap as the old Spinegaunts with an equal chance to wound T4 targets and a small additional benefit in the ability to glance AV10.

Gargoyles are of course, the new Swarm unit of choice and a huge unit can swarm around your army to the effect that it grants your MCs coversaves and 50% of the unit is still hidden so it gets a save itself.

The benefit to Swarm basically comes from synergy with the Tervigon. The Venomthrope would be arguable for granting this benefit too but is so expensive and fragile for what it does that you're better off spending the points on more swarm units instead.

Anyhow. I have my current list here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242881 if anyone is interested in what I'm currently fielding.

Mojaco
10-02-2010, 12:19
I said GW, not just Cruddace :rolleyes:

However I think it's easier to reason for many people to assign the blame for bad design decisions to the incompetence of an individual rather than the incompetence of a great many people.

If the Codex was designed by a group how the hell did we end up with things like the new Lictor rules.

"So, this unit, we have some great models but no-one is using them."
"It's because they're fragile, random and their direct abilities are only useful against a handful of enemy armies since it'll probably get killed trying to tie up even a Devestator squad."
"Preferred enemy from the feeder tentacles is decent though."
"Okay, let's take that out. Right, how can we make it even worse?"
"The ability to assault on the turn it arrives is the only reason people would use them at all."
"Noted, that's outta there."
"What kind of fluffy yet pointless abilities can we add instead?"
"Okay, well it could act like a teleport homer, bringing in other deepstriking Tyranid units and a +1 to reserve rolls."
"Hang on, that sounds like it could almost be useful. We have those new Mawloc things which will have vague rules that might not allow it deepstrike on an enemy unit and use the very reason people would buy them for in the first place"
"Well, the spore and Trygons already have drop pod like rules making a homer fairly redundant."
"Better. What else?"
"The Lictor has to be on the table for a full turn before you can use the abilities, so you'd only get a benefit on Turn 3 assuming it turned up on Turn 2."
"You could have a hive tyrant with his +1 to reserves on the board to make it more likely he'll be there, but then the Lictor's additional bonus is entirely pointless."
"Genius! I think we've done it lads. Print it, it's time to go down the pub."

You forgot that its save is worse than before :) It did get a shooting attack though which can hurt tank rear armour (yes, very fluffy...) and an extra wound.

Dead Man Walking
10-02-2010, 12:38
Or how about giving hormagaunts and genestealers a higher initiative than space marines but remove thier assault grenades so they can't use thier high initiative in terrain? While we're at it we should reduce the hormagaunst WS to 3....

de Selby
10-02-2010, 18:42
Bear in mind hormagaunts re-roll ones now. So they actually hit marines 58% of the time instead of 50%.

I actually think Cruddace may be responsible for the best thing about the new codex: all the new units (with or without models). It was a feature of his IG effort too. They seem to be bringing him in to spice up old armies.

big squig
10-02-2010, 21:29
I would argue against most the new models. Names like venomthrope or tyranofex and harpy are just dumb. Let alone their rules that make almost all of them useless. Of the new units, the Prime, the Doom, Tervigons (another dumb name), Trygons, and Hive guard are only worth a lick. The rest are trash.

You'd have to be daft to take venomthropes, pyrovores, harpies, the parasite, ymgarles, the old one eye, deathleaper, or tyranofexs in any game either player cares who wins. Not to mention the old units that are pants now too like lictors and carnifexs.

I would much rather they focused on fixing the bugs instead of throwing in a bunch of new stuff that's just as useless.

Draconis
10-02-2010, 21:50
You also have to remember, that even though the blame tends to fall on one guy, thats because in any job, the supervisor is responsible for everyone.

Vepr
10-02-2010, 21:57
I would argue against most the new models. Names like venomthrope or tyranofex and harpy are just dumb. Let alone their rules that make almost all of them useless. Of the new units, the Prime, the Doom, Tervigons (another dumb name), Trygons, and Hive guard are only worth a lick. The rest are trash.

You'd have to be daft to take venomthropes, pyrovores, harpies, the parasite, ymgarles, the old one eye, deathleaper, or tyranofexs in any game either player cares who wins. Not to mention the old units that are pants now too like lictors and carnifexs.

I would much rather they focused on fixing the bugs instead of throwing in a bunch of new stuff that's just as useless.

I am having a hard time finding a use for the venomthrope and harpy. I want to like them but they are just so lackluster and die so easily. I have given up on the pyrovore. Not happy at all with what they did to the lictor, it is just a crying shame. Ymargls are decent if you just take the minimum group, they can cause some havoc. I have to admit I have not even bothed with the tyrannofex yet. It seems like such a huge point sink for what it does.

I don't think the Parasite is a total waste. It is a bit expensive (should be T5) but I have used it for fast synapse/shadow in the warp with a gargoyle screen and it has worked alright. Plus I enjoyed making the conversion so I feel obligated to use it. ;)

de Selby
10-02-2010, 22:23
I would much rather they focused on fixing the bugs instead of throwing in a bunch of new stuff that's just as useless.

But given they've not 'fixed' the bugs, and probably never will, I'm very happy to have lots of weird new stuff I can add if I feel like it. Hive Guard, Ymgarl stealers, Venomthropes, Harpies and Tervigons are all cool enough in their own right that I'm pleased to see them (and hoping for more models), irrespective of power level. The names don't bother me that much.

When 6th edition rolls round a different selection of units will be useless and you'll be glad to have these.

big squig
10-02-2010, 22:55
But given they've not 'fixed' the bugs, and probably never will, I'm very happy to have lots of weird new stuff I can add if I feel like it. Hive Guard, Ymgarl stealers, Venomthropes, Harpies and Tervigons are all cool enough in their own right that I'm pleased to see them (and hoping for more models), irrespective of power level. The names don't bother me that much.

When 6th edition rolls round a different selection of units will be useless and you'll be glad to have these.

Knowing GW, by the time the 6th ed bug book comes out they would have still not made minis for all these new units, will drop them, and will instead make the rest of the codex even worse.