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S00N3R FR3AK
09-02-2010, 03:42
Ok so I tried fantasy awhile ago with dwarfs but just couldn't get into it with that army. I am not looking at doing fantasy again after focusing on 40k this past 6-8 months. Right now I am looking at wood elves as I love the whole ranger/bow theme. One thing is I would like to play something that is completely different form 40k as in block movements not skirmishers. Shooting is fine but I would also like some ok magic so it seems from what people at my GW say the whole knight theme from the Bretts is out. So based on wanting to do some that is as far away form 40k as I can get would wood elves be a bad choice or are their enough block choices to not feel like a game of 40k as far as movement is concerned?

ChaosVC
09-02-2010, 03:50
Try High Elves or Dark elves, empire is not bad. Unfortunately for you, Wood elves is the army closest to a 40k style game, you will not learn the importance of static res and block infantry manunevours if you play the woodies. By playing High elves, Dark elves or empire, you at least gets to play every phases of the warhammer fantasy game that is different from a 40k game. They can be considered your conventional fantasy armies.

S00N3R FR3AK
09-02-2010, 04:04
Try High Elves or Dark elves, empire is not bad. Unfortunately for you, Wood elves is the army closest to a 40k style game, you will not learn the importance of static res and block infantry manunevours if you play the woodies. By playing High elves, Dark elves or empire, you at least gets to play every phases of the warhammer fantasy game that is different from a 40k game. They can be considered your conventional fantasy armies.

Could a HE army be done avoiding the metal models. That was one of the things that turned me from dwarfs was having to pay $5 a model for the specials.

Also I love the undead theme(play necrons) would the Tomb Kings be close to a conventional army? I know they don't roll for spells but they look interesting.

Stegadeth
09-02-2010, 04:06
I'd add Lizardmen to the above list. While they do have some skirmishers (which fill a nice roll for the Army as a whole) they are mostly about blocks of pretty tough infantry. With Lizardmen you get some of the best magic in the game, great big stomping dinosaurs, some flying cavalry, some heavy cavalry, and some really useful support units.

Lizardmen can be themed to do well in nearly any phase of the game (though their shooting range is short, it is highly effective since they use poison) or they can be made balanced.

Lizardmen are also easier on the wallet than an Army like Dark Elves which are wonderfully powerful and versatile. This is for a couple of reasons. Lizardmen's core choices are almost all plastic. In fact most of the Army is plastic. Lizardmen also do double duty. Skinks can be ranked up or used as skirmishers. Our fast cavalry are also our flying monsters and they hunt war machines. The list goes on.

Of course I always recommend picking out the models you like best. If you are going to have to paint some 200-300 miniature toys, liking how they look is a huge bonus.

You posted while I was typing:

Could a HE army be done avoiding the metal models. That was one of the things that turned me from dwarfs was having to pay $5 a model for the specials.

Also I love the undead theme(play necrons) would the Tomb Kings be close to a conventional army? I know they don't roll for spells but they look interesting.

If you like undead models, Tomb Kings are tough to beat. They are a pretty conventional army. Be prepared to buy more units than you plan to originally field because your spells let you raise units

S00N3R FR3AK
09-02-2010, 04:09
I'd add Lizardmen to the above list. While they do have some skirmishers (which fill a nice roll for the Army as a whole) they are mostly about blocks of pretty tough infantry. With Lizardmen you get some of the best magic in the game, great big stomping dinosaurs, some flying cavalry, some heavy cavalry, and some really useful support units.

Lizardmen can be themed to do well in nearly any phase of the game (though their shooting range is short, it is highly effective since they use poison) or they can be made balanced.

Lizardmen are also easier on the wallet than an Army like Dark Elves which are wonderfully powerful and versatile. This is for a couple of reasons. Lizardmen's core choices are almost all plastic. In fact most of the Army is plastic. Lizardmen also do double duty. Skinks can be ranked up or used as skirmishers. Our fast cavalry are also our flying monsters and they hunt war machines. The list goes on.

Of course I always recommend picking out the models you like best. If you are going to have to paint some 200-300 miniature toys, liking how they look is a huge bonus.

That is one of the things that have kept me from thinking about empire. I just can't stand the puffy arms. LM though have a great many possibilities for painting them and I like the non skink models. Could they be a army tuned for both magic(I would prefer a slann) and combat well in the same army?



You posted while I was typing:

If you like undead models, Tomb Kings are tough to beat. They are a pretty conventional army. Be prepared to buy more units than you plan to originally field because your spells let you raise units

Lol you beat me too. With the rumored update being so soon what would be safe to get? Also would a TP, LP, and the battalion be a great place to start?

ChaosVC
09-02-2010, 04:13
Well VC is a good army for beginners, for one, your army is compelety immune to psychology and unbreakable. You can rely on them to keep moving forward without faltering to panic test from shooting or magic. But here is the catch, their strength is also their weakness though it is rather minor weakness; they cannot chose to flee from critical charges which could be devestating at times. You also can't play bait and flee with your troops, to some people, this can eventually gets boring for their game.

High elves unfortunately does require alot of metal models, all your better stuff are metals ie; Swordmaster, white lion, phoenix guards and dragon princes, the same goes with Dark Elves, but empire on the other hand are mostly plastic...but then greatswords, which is a rather neat unit to have, is a very expensive lot of plastic models to collect.
There fore the nick "goldswords".

Hope that helps.

Edit: Tomb King will be getting a new book and models near the end of this year i heard, you might want to wait it out for it.

Stegadeth
09-02-2010, 04:14
That is one of the things that have kept me from thinking about empire. I just can't stand the puffy arms. LM though have a great many possibilities for painting them and I like the non skink models. Could they be a army tuned for both magic(I would prefer a slann) and combat well in the same army?

The Lizardmen are one of the best armies for Close Combat expertise and strong magic working together. If you use a Slann, Temple Guard make a living barrier around him. The Slann can actually cast spells while his unit is engaged in close combat with no penalties because of special rules. Saurus Warriors are second only to Warriors of Chaos in Close Combat. If you wish to add even more magic you can use a Skink Priest bumped up to level 2 and put him on a Stegadon for a mount that carries a big arcane Engine of the Gods which also casts spells.

If you like Tomb Kings I would wait to see what the new book does for them. Likely it will be okay but Games Workshop has been known to make a mistake now and again as any hardened Necron veteran would know.

S00N3R FR3AK
09-02-2010, 04:16
The Lizardmen are one of the best armies for Close Combat expertise and strong magic working together. If you use a Slann, Temple Guard make a living barrier around him. The Slann can actually cast spells while his unit is engaged in close combat with no penalties because of special rules. Saurus Warriors are second only to Warriors of Chaos in Close Combat. If you wish to add even more magic you can use a Skink Priest bumped up to level 2 and put him on a Stegadon for a mount that carries a big arcane Engine of the Gods which also casts spells.

Would 2 battalions and a slann be a good place to start with LM?

Also does Bretonnia magic really suck as bad as everyone says it does?

O and I have been looking a lot at the new Beastmen models and am wondering how that could do magic/combat. The battle in the last WD makes it look good but I assume they will make all new armies look good.




If you like Tomb Kings I would wait to see what the new book does for them. Likely it will be okay but Games Workshop has been known to make a mistake now and again as any hardened Necron veteran would know.

Man I wouldn't wish something like a necron book on even ultramarines ;)

Stegadeth
09-02-2010, 04:18
If you plan to use a Slann then yes, two battalions and a Slann is actually the optimal place to start in my opinion. That will easily give you 2250 points. I'd add a Stegadon as soon as I could too and set it up as an Engine of the Gods, especially if you like magic.

S00N3R FR3AK
09-02-2010, 04:22
If you plan to use a Slann then yes, two battalions and a Slann is actually the optimal place to start in my opinion. That will easily give you 2250 points. I'd add a Stegadon as soon as I could too and set it up as an Engine of the Gods, especially if you like magic.

Really that could get me to 2250? Is that tricking out the units or are they expensive without upgrades?

Stegadeth
09-02-2010, 04:36
Well, a Slann itself can get to over 500 points if you are going magic heavy. You'd get two 6 x 3 Saurus with spears blocks. You'd get 2 units of ten skirmishing skinks. You'd get 2 units of 5 Cold One Cavalry (and have some left over for the really easy conversions into 2 Saurus Scar-Veterans) to bulk out those CoC units with a hero. You'd have 20 Temple Guard to hide your Slann in.

Um, yeah, that's really close to 2250 when you tool up your Slann. If you just wanted to round out some units with some extra models then yes, you can get 2250 easy. I just put together a 2237 list with just the units I specifically mentioned. You'd have more Saurus available to you than that and some more CoC as well.

Here is the list:

1 Slaan Mage-Priest: BSB, War Banner, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Glyph Necklace, Bane Head, 3 Disciplines: Focus of Mystery, The Becalming Cogitation, The Focused Rumination (515 pts.)

20 Temple Guard, Musician, Standard Bearer (341 pts)

10 Skink Skirmishers (70 pts.)

10 Skink Skirmishers (70 pts.)

18 Saurus Warriors, Spears, Musician, Standard Bearer (234 pts.)

18 Saurus Warriors, Spears, Musician, Standard Bearer (234 pts.)

1 Saurus Scar-Veteran, Light Armor, Cold One, Burning Blade of Chotec, The Maiming Shield (160 pts.)
5 Cold One Cavalry, full command (225 pts.) One Scar Vet goes here.

1 Saurus Scar-Veteran, Light Armor, Shield, Cold One, Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent (163 pts)
5 Cold One Cavalry, full command (225 pts.) One Scar Vet goes here.


Total Roster Cost: 2237

Obviously, it's not a fine tuned list and has some holes, but if you wanted to get started playing right away, there you go. You'd have a grand total of one metal model.

Leogun_91
09-02-2010, 07:21
Shooting is fine but I would also like some ok magic so it seems from what people at my GW say the whole knight theme from the Bretts is out.If you play Bretts with both knights, peasants and damsels and all in fair ammounts you wil get a fair warhammer experience. Unless you play only knights you can learn by them.

Woodelfs doesn't work that well for learning the game but you can play a "classic" warhammer army with them, gladeguards as core, 2 or 3 blocks of eternal guards, some characters, a treeman (the monster aspect), some glade riders (fast cavalry). You don't have to play them as a 40k style army. They also work well magic heavy.

Demrog
09-02-2010, 08:33
A couple of people have recommended waiting for the TK book to come out before buying any models, my thought on that is that the models as they are now are cheap and it's probably a better time to invest in the models now, rather than waiting until GW release the book and send the prices of models sky rocketing.

I've seen a few TK armies for sale on ebay over the last couple of months (haven't looked today so can't say for certain).

I regularly play TK in my gaming group and he prefers playing them to his HE army - and that's using an 8yr old book... And as yet I have never beaten him with a 2000pt/2250pt list (I am using Dwarfs at the mo).

I know there is the risk that you won't like the army if you buy now before the new book, but if the book does prove popular then selling the models on shouldn't be too difficult...

havoc626
09-02-2010, 08:51
If you like undead models, Tomb Kings are tough to beat. They are a pretty conventional army. Be prepared to buy more units than you plan to originally field because your spells let you raise units

Just want to point out that TK don't have the ability to raise new units or to create new ones mid game, VC are the ones that are capable of doing that.

I'm also wanting to really get into fantasy, but it seems to me that whenever I decide on an army, it isn't long until release so I wait, but when it comes out, I find it doesn't have the same feel as the old book did, so I lose interest in that. Has so far happened with Skaven, LM, DE, HE and VC. I know all of them are high tier (or at least were when first coming out) but I just don't like them as much as the older books for some reason.

Fingers crossed that I like the TK book, because otherwise I'm out of choices until 8th ed books start getting rolled out.

ivrg
09-02-2010, 11:18
i would not recomend TK to a new WHFB player. They are hard to learn and actually not a very good army at the moment. When they get a new book then you should consider them, but not untill then.

HE specials are all metals. But you dont need many of them. Seven swordmasters deal out 15 S5 attacks and it doesnt matter if they charge or get charged. With HE you also have the option of choosing all the magic lores in the rulebook.

To choose between HE or DE is imo a matter of which army you like the most.

Toshiro
09-02-2010, 11:34
I'd recommend TK because they are a very fun army to play, and they're not as weak as many think, although they don't have the ultra-combinations that many others have which is why I like them. So far I've won far more games then I've lost anyway :)

Hjiryon
09-02-2010, 12:44
Wood elves have a grand total of three models that aren't monsters, fast cavalry or skirmishers (and they still ignore movement penalties in forests - and in the case of Glade Guard, they're not going to move too much). Worst possible choice if you want to learn the WHFB movement phase and how it differs from 40k.

If you want a combined arms list (magic, shooting and some serious close combat potential), I'd really recommend dark elves.
High elves do okay too, but the entire army having Always Strikes First kills a lot of the stategic bread-and-butter of fantasy once again.

Dark elves, as I usually see them played, combine fast support/harassment units (dark riders, harpies, shades... Dare I put the Hydra here?), some very solid shooting units (crossbowmen, bolt throwers) and dark magic (or some offensive "standard" magic lore, I most often see death or shadow) to punch out the enemy's ability to move around the battlefield.
Played successfully, this allows the dark elf player to dictate where and when any battle will be fought - which is where the dark elf infantry comes in.
Generally vulnerable to missile fire (important exception: Corsairs), these are, point for point, some of the meanest and most hard-hitting infantry in WHFB - I don't see witch elves taken much (no armor save and 12 points per model really hurts their viability - they're as fragile as glade guard, which is saying something!).

But that's just what I've seen and played really. With Dark elves, much like Empire, you're never quite sure what you'll run into. They can cater to any of the phases of the game - and do well in just about any of them.

Condottiere
09-02-2010, 13:35
Wood Elves - good at avoidance.

Dark Elves - good at attacking.

High Elves - look good.

S00N3R FR3AK
09-02-2010, 14:17
So much like I was thinking of doing with LM would 2 battalions and a tomb prince and lich priest be a great place to start?

Petey
10-02-2010, 06:42
Would 2 battalions and a slann be a good place to start with LM?

Also does Bretonnia magic really suck as bad as everyone says it does?

O and I have been looking a lot at the new Beastmen models and am wondering how that could do magic/combat. The battle in the last WD makes it look good but I assume they will make all new armies look good.




Man I wouldn't wish something like a necron book on even ultramarines ;)

I find that unless you play with the Fey enchantress or at least a level 4 damsel you can kiss magic offense goodbye as a Brett player. They're good at keepign their knights alive with magic resistance and dispel dice though...

Beastmen get some good killy magic, and they have some nice creapy monsters like the Cygor that are magic themed

ChaosVC
10-02-2010, 08:12
High Elves - look good.

I protest.

ChaosVC
10-02-2010, 08:14
So much like I was thinking of doing with LM would 2 battalions and a tomb prince and lich priest be a great place to start?

Why are you getting tomb kings when you are starting lizardman?:confused:

phoenixguard09
10-02-2010, 08:19
Because the purchases are roughly the same as his LM options as far as money goes.

Windir83
10-02-2010, 12:51
I got the lizardmen book, wrote a list quickly that came in at 748 pts which is fine for a starter army and get some games in. All you need is 1 box of saurus, 1 box of skinks ,1 saurus hero ,1 skink priest and 3 terradon. you can probably make the skink and saurus heroes from the boxes themselves so the only kinda costly bit about this army are the terradons but they look like a must have to me. to expand the force you can just get a stegadon to get to 1k. AND the best bit, Lizardmen are easy as **** to paint and you can just go jester crazy with them :D