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tu33y
11-02-2010, 09:49
GW are advertisng fr a new Games Developer in the UK. i have included the link in case anyone has even the tiniest bit of hope it won't just go to an internal candidate... however the one line in the job description i really loved and made me LOL was

"...(creating)... clear, consistant rules that encourage people to have fun...(with the hobby)"

seriously, i hope they find someone who can actually DO that!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=400001a&section=&aId=8200031a

Condottiere
11-02-2010, 10:24
It's a two part job, in my opinion - someone to come up with the ideas and the other to clean them up into a clear, consistent, precise, coherent whole.

lanrak
11-02-2010, 10:33
Hi,
Just a slight correction...
Actual quote.
''Can you translate your passion and enthusiasm into clear, consistent rules that encourage people to have fun with their Citadel miniatures?''
(Emphasis mine.)

(Cynical folk like me read this as encourage people to buy the new Citadel Minatures..)

I find it odd most other companies would concentrate on '....delivering great gaming experiance...' And they would not prioritise thier own brand minatures to make them the main focus of thier game development process.

The reference to a full understanding of thier current rules in the first paraghraph sort of implies a resitance to change.

How can you translate your ideas into 'clear consistant rules' , when you are stuck using a frame work of poorly defined, abstract, counter intuitive rules that has built up over the last few years?

Condottiere
11-02-2010, 10:38
Microsoft manages, though with lots of workarounds.

IJW
11-02-2010, 11:23
The reference to a full understanding of thier current rules in the first paraghraph sort of implies a resitance to change.
That's one way of reading it. Another would be that they want people who know the rules of the systems they'll be developing for... ;)

Would you ever see a games developer ad for an established company that didn't expect people to know the existing games?

P.S. Especially for an Assistant Games Developer...

narrativium
11-02-2010, 11:49
It's a two part job, in my opinion - someone to come up with the ideas and the other to clean them up into a clear, consistent, precise, coherent whole.

It's a bit more than that. Games Development is also project management - there's a limit to how many units they can propose if those units aren't supported by the model ranges; the ideas have to be supported as concepts on the battlefield, evocative illustrations of the background, concepts to inspire the sculptors, and a description to put on the box or in White Dwarf so people will buy it.

And yeah, coming up with a rule mechanic is great, but the complexity has to be in proportion with its use in the game, and the text has to fit in the rulebook alongside the colour text and illustrations. (So, there often won't be room to specify how one object interacts with a specific item in another book.)

I would like to see how the language can be made clearer, as it really is a monstrous task - e.g. if the next version of the Wood Elf book refers to "Wood Elf units", can the language establish in a WE vs. WE game whether this only refers to the friendly unit? I've attended doubles tournaments - do the books need to be careful about use of the term "friendly unit"?

Yeah, the job's a doozy.

WinglessVT2
11-02-2010, 11:50
"The successful candidate will have a high standard of written English ('A' level standard or equivalent) and ideally be educated to degree level. Excellent communication and team working skills are essential. Fully conversant with Microsoft office."

WHOA!
It's like they want to stamp out all the horribly written rules, the typos, and the bad formatting!

Earl_UK
11-02-2010, 13:23
[QUOTE=WinglessVT2;4385280
WHOA!
It's like they want to stamp out all the horribly written rules, the typos, and the bad formatting![/QUOTE]

HAHA..

We can but hope, but id guess that would be down to the end user.. sorry Proof Readers.

I wonder if they will pay Degree level salary, somehow i very much doubt it.

AndrewGPaul
11-02-2010, 16:41
"The successful candidate will have a high standard of written English ('A' level standard or equivalent) and ideally be educated to degree level. Excellent communication and team working skills are essential. Fully conversant with Microsoft office."

WHOA!
It's like they want to stamp out all the horribly written rules, the typos, and the bad formatting!

With the exception of the MS Office skills, it's said that since 1990. You be the judge if that's made a difference to the typos. :)

Maybe we should post this in the 40K Discussion forum? That's full of people who claim to know how the Tyranid Codex should have been written. :)

Condottiere
11-02-2010, 17:08
That's not an uncommon claim for any number of Fantasy books, as well.

GavT
11-02-2010, 18:12
Clearly the oceans are parting, Cthulu is rising and the Studio requires fresh, young blood :evilgrin:

Things potential applicants should try to demonstrate (though bear in mind I wasn't involved in hiring decisions for my last few years at GW so this may well have changed):

1. A core understanding of the 'GW Hobby' across the breadth of collecting, gaming, painting and modelling. If you just have a long list of rules you think need fixing you need to broaden your outlook.

2. An existing creative involvement with the background and rules. Whether its house rules, army background, scenarios, campaigns, characters you've created or whatever, if you can show that you are already involved with tinkering and expanding what's published, all the better.

3. Following from the previous, the ability to commit and complete projects. Ideas are ten-a-penny. A million half-finished projects are nothing compared to one that you have actually finished!

4. Team skillz. Games developers don't work in isolation. As well as basic social skills and personal hygiene, show that you can be organised and work as one of a number of people on the same project.

5. Community involvement. Simply being a vociferous poster on internet forums doesn't count ;) Real-world interaction such as clubs you frequent, campaigns, tournaments and other events organised, involvement with local stores. Ties in to point 1 - can you accept the many different (often competing) requirements and demands that come from across the wide range of hobbyists involved with GW games?

6. Availability for every equinox and solstice to attend the mandatory sacrificial ceremonies.

Best wishes for anyone that applies; it can be challenging, even frustrating, but there are also moments of immense satisfaction and reward and you'll get to work with some truly interesting and talented people. And (now and then) you'll actually be paid to play with toy soldiers!

You never know, a few years from now you too could have the internet hordes telling you how much you suck at your job :p

Cheers,

GAV

Lord Malorne
11-02-2010, 18:18
Thanks for the added insight Gav :).

Condottiere
11-02-2010, 18:22
What's the compensation package and does it include dental?

Llew
11-02-2010, 18:23
It's interesting to have insight from a guy who has actually been there. That's a pretty handy thing for anyone really interested in the job.

I think the last point is the one that seals it for me and makes it seem desireable. ;)

Batwings
11-02-2010, 18:29
'basic social skills and personal hygiene'

Times really must have changed!

Charax
11-02-2010, 19:44
Applied for the last designer type position they had (which was as a trainee writer, IIRC) didn't even get to interview stage, not going to bother again. They should still have my details on file anyway.

hellharlequin
11-02-2010, 22:13
Clearly the oceans are parting, Cthulu is rising and the Studio requires fresh, young blood :evilgrin:

Things potential applicants should try to demonstrate (though bear in mind I wasn't involved in hiring decisions for my last few years at GW so this may well have changed):

1. A core understanding of the 'GW Hobby' across the breadth of collecting, gaming, painting and modelling. If you just have a long list of rules you think need fixing you need to broaden your outlook.

2. An existing creative involvement with the background and rules. Whether its house rules, army background, scenarios, campaigns, characters you've created or whatever, if you can show that you are already involved with tinkering and expanding what's published, all the better.

3. Following from the previous, the ability to commit and complete projects. Ideas are ten-a-penny. A million half-finished projects are nothing compared to one that you have actually finished!

4. Team skillz. Games developers don't work in isolation. As well as basic social skills and personal hygiene, show that you can be organised and work as one of a number of people on the same project.

5. Community involvement. Simply being a vociferous poster on internet forums doesn't count ;) Real-world interaction such as clubs you frequent, campaigns, tournaments and other events organised, involvement with local stores. Ties in to point 1 - can you accept the many different (often competing) requirements and demands that come from across the wide range of hobbyists involved with GW games?

6. Availability for every equinox and solstice to attend the mandatory sacrificial ceremonies.

Best wishes for anyone that applies; it can be challenging, even frustrating, but there are also moments of immense satisfaction and reward and you'll get to work with some truly interesting and talented people. And (now and then) you'll actually be paid to play with toy soldiers!

You never know, a few years from now you too could have the internet hordes telling you how much you suck at your job :p

Cheers,

GAV
so should I just send them my ideas for serveral AB and codices with justification and see how far I come.
EDit: could fluent knowledge of german languague be a bonus?

bigcheese76
11-02-2010, 23:25
Wow, Id love to get that job. Shame I dont have any english qualifications.

scarletsquig
11-02-2010, 23:31
Heh, I currently work as a game developer. (downloadable games market, highly competitive, extremely demanding customers that you can't ignore if you want them to keep paying you).

Not gonna apply for this though, pay is probably gonna be poor and I don't fancy moving up north to Gunsville aka Nottingham

orlanth1000
12-02-2010, 04:54
I live on the other side of the world, don't fit many of those criteria, my wife and I have great businesses we own.........but it would be great to do the gig for a month or two just to see the inner workings.......summer intern GW please?

tu33y
12-02-2010, 08:21
im wondering if as part of the interview you have to fight Kirk in an arena surrouded by braying romans while the old Star trek fight music plays....

GavT
12-02-2010, 09:54
im wondering if as part of the interview you have to fight Kirk in an arena surrouded by braying romans while the old Star trek fight music plays....

We used to conduct knife fights in the car park, but Human Resources stopped us. These days you have to actually 'talk' to people and conduct 'interviews'. It's political correctness gone mad, I tell ya!


so should I just send them my ideas for serveral AB and codices with justification and see how far I come.

I'd start with just sending what they ask for, but mention stuff you've been doing in your application if you can. If you get further in the process, you'll have the opportunity to 'show and tell'.

GAV

Tarax
12-02-2010, 10:32
Let them look at some of the forums on the internet and invite some of the more interesting people.

I hereby apply. My qualifications? I have written houserules, organized and participated in tournaments, have great contact with several stores, lead a gaming group and most of all bath regularly. ;) :D

PS. Gav, I once met and spoke to you at an event. Does that count for anything? :p

snurl
12-02-2010, 10:33
What a fun job that would be. Too bad I don't live in the UK.

Corrode
12-02-2010, 11:57
PS. Gav, I once met and spoke to you at an event. Does that count for anything? :p

You think that's a big deal? I once insulted him by proxy. Or was the proxy to an insult. Either way.

The above jesting aside, I whammed in an application. I have pretty much zero chance of it going anywhere, but I figured why not?

Chaos and Evil
12-02-2010, 12:09
I met GavT once ; I showed Gav an Elysian Drop Trooper I'd converted with 8 magnets crammed into it, and somehow I then ended up saying the word "dogg" (yes I pronounced both "g"s) and felt all embarassed. :rolleyes:

Best of luck to everyone putting in an application!

tu33y
12-02-2010, 12:22
1. A core understanding of the 'GW Hobby' across the breadth of collecting, gaming, painting and modelling. If you just have a long list of rules you think need fixing you need to broaden your outlook.

2. An existing creative involvement with the background and rules. Whether its house rules, army background, scenarios, campaigns, characters you've created or whatever, if you can show that you are already involved with tinkering and expanding what's published, all the better.

3. Following from the previous, the ability to commit and complete projects. Ideas are ten-a-penny. A million half-finished projects are nothing compared to one that you have actually finished!

4. Team skillz. Games developers don't work in isolation. As well as basic social skills and personal hygiene, show that you can be organised and work as one of a number of people on the same project.

5. Community involvement. Simply being a vociferous poster on internet forums doesn't count ;) Real-world interaction such as clubs you frequent, campaigns, tournaments and other events organised, involvement with local stores. Ties in to point 1 - can you accept the many different (often competing) requirements and demands that come from across the wide range of hobbyists involved with GW games?

GAV

i think this should be part of the advert/job description!

actually i think GavT highlights how HARD this job would be for most people, even those who have a really solid base in the hobby.

first off its not asking for "A 40k" fluff writer, its asking for a full rounded passion for the hobby. i guess we all write or mentally imagine stories or even just fancy names for our characters, and doing that for an army you really enjoy and empathize with is easy.
but could you write fluff for Skaven? or Tau? or the Riders Of Rohan? on the same day? of invent a ne unit for a LotR army you have never even been aware of before?

also, like he says it invloves lots of co-operation; a thing we geeks are stereotypically not brilliant at (dont flame- i kno its a catch-all that many do not fit to) and many of your ideas and pet rules/units get shot right down all the time.

interesting job but my god you have got to know everything back to front!

Jagged
12-02-2010, 14:05
I was a little disappointed (but not surprised) that while the ad mentioned a minimum level of English it didn't mention a minimum level in maths.


PS: Gav you suck!




j/k ;)

Brother Loki
12-02-2010, 16:23
Well, the application's in, and the fingers are crossed. :)

Aurellis
12-02-2010, 16:34
I too have put an application in as I figured, why not? ;)

Llew
12-02-2010, 16:49
And the race is on to see if a Warseer poster can become the next "Warseer Target of Nerdrage" (TM)!

Good luck to the applicants.

Sylass
12-02-2010, 17:39
[...] PS. Gav, I once met and spoke to you at an event. Does that count for anything? :p

You think that's a big deal? I once insulted him by proxy. Or was the proxy to an insult. Either way. [...]

I met GavT once ; I showed Gav an Elysian Drop Trooper I'd converted with 8 magnets crammed into it, and somehow I then ended up saying the word "dogg" (yes I pronounced both "g"s) and felt all embarassed. :rolleyes: [...]

*ahem* :shifty:

We played a game of WHFB (Dwarfs vs. Beasts of Chaos) when we both took part in the last Portent tournament (2005, Warhammer World). He even signed my 6th edition rule book/army book. :cool:

So would you whippersnappers be so kind and get back in line, please? :p:D

(When I was younger I once thought about trying to become a games developer for tabletop, roleplaying or board games but never really followed this route/tried to make it real.)

GavT
12-02-2010, 21:02
*ahem* :shifty:

We played a game of WHFB (Dwarfs vs. Beasts of Chaos) when we both took part in the last Portent tournament (2005, Warhammer World). He even signed my 6th edition rule book/army book. :cool:



That was a great game and a really fun tournament. I think that was the tourney when my runed-up BSB was taken to 1 wound by a scattering mortar shot and then finished off by Huntsmen! :cries:

Best of luck to everyone that applies. I suspect admitting any encounters with me might count for something, but not necessarily in your favour...

GAV

ZeroTwentythree
12-02-2010, 21:47
2. An existing creative involvement with the background and rules. Whether its house rules, army background, scenarios, campaigns, characters you've created or whatever, if you can show that you are already involved with tinkering and expanding what's published, all the better.



Are you sure that's not just bait for more C&D letters? :shifty:





You never know, a few years from now you too could have the internet hordes telling you how much you suck at your job :p

That does bring up the point that an ideal candidate would probably have to be able to roll with criticism. ;)

Harry
12-02-2010, 23:53
You never know, a few years from now you too could have the internet hordes telling you how much you suck at your job :p



'basic social skills and personal hygiene'

Times really must have changed!
LOL the boys are on form tonight. :D

baphomael
13-02-2010, 02:51
Heh, I currently work as a game developer. (downloadable games market, highly competitive, extremely demanding customers that you can't ignore if you want them to keep paying you).

Not gonna apply for this though, pay is probably gonna be poor and I don't fancy moving up north to Gunsville aka Nottingham

Gunsville? Its not that bad! I was born and bred in Nottingham and I've only been shot twice ;)

Nah, but seriously, Notts isnt that bad anymore (if it ever was, good old media hype).

Inquisitor Engel
13-02-2010, 05:33
We used to conduct knife fights in the car park, but Human Resources stopped us. These days you have to actually 'talk' to people and conduct 'interviews'. It's political correctness gone mad, I tell ya!


This explains why Andy Chambers simply HAD to go after he cut the hair and shaved that beard... :shifty: Clearly couldn't handle himself in a knife-fight without the facial hair. It was only a matter of time.

Arjuna
13-02-2010, 11:21
I would really like to know why GW books have a history of really poor editing. The number of editing errors in their rule books is in very stark contrast with the usual quality of the artwork and other production aspects of their books.

Editing is extraordinarily simple compared to layout, this means its pretty cheap to find a competent editor compared to a highly skilled art director. For the most part I have found easily avoidable editorial errors in all of the WHFB rule books and army books. I never really have understood why they run all the way to the one yard line and then just give up before making an easy goal.

Condottiere
13-02-2010, 12:29
Yes, it's a mystery to most of us, and they've had quite a number of books and editions to become aware of the problem.

BigbyWolf
13-02-2010, 12:37
I'm hairier than Jervis Johnson...surely that can only help with my application...

On the other hand, I haven't played 40k in over 12 years...and can't paint worth a toffee (although, ironically, I can paint toffee quite well), so I suppose that counts me out...

vladsimpaler
13-02-2010, 16:53
Dang! I would love to do this but moving from California to Nottingham seems like too much of a culture shock. :p

Harry
13-02-2010, 18:18
I think Jeremy Vetock is still doing a bit even though he has returned stateside soooo .... it may not be a deal breaker.

Occulto
13-02-2010, 23:06
The reference to a full understanding of thier current rules in the first paraghraph sort of implies a resitance to change.

How can you translate your ideas into 'clear consistant rules' , when you are stuck using a frame work of poorly defined, abstract, counter intuitive rules that has built up over the last few years?

Helps to write a codex or army book if you understand the ruleset it's to be used with. :p

I don't think I could write modules or expansions for Shadowrun - because my sum knowledge of the game comes from a few drunken RPG sessions about 10 years ago. I seem to recall dice being used at some point.

Besides it mentions rules, game systems and background. I would think that a good knowledge of Epic (rules & background) over the years would help if you were going to write Codex: Squats. ;)


You never know, a few years from now you too could have the internet hordes telling you how much you suck at your job :p


Coffee, keyboard etc. :D

RobC
15-02-2010, 15:19
Editing is extraordinarily simple compared to layout, this means its pretty cheap to find a competent editor compared to a highly skilled art director. For the most part I have found easily avoidable editorial errors in all of the WHFB rule books and army books. I never really have understood why they run all the way to the one yard line and then just give up before making an easy goal.Au contraire. The fact that everyone thinks they are capable of writing well means they undervalue those that are good editors. Layout errors are also usually much more obvious than typos.

selfconstrukt
15-02-2010, 15:46
I think Jeremy Vetock is still doing a bit even though he has returned stateside soooo .... it may not be a deal breaker.

Do you know if he went back to Baltimore or to Memphis?

I thought the staff up there was being moved to Memphis?

IJW
15-02-2010, 17:59
The fact that everyone thinks they are capable of writing well means they undervalue those that are good editors.
Too true. :(

Witness Arjuna's "its pretty cheap" for "it's pretty cheap"...

Brushmonkey
15-02-2010, 18:01
Have they taken down the ad already? The link doesn't go anywhere useful...

Mini77
15-02-2010, 18:23
I used to do proof-reading, and it's harder than it sounds. Your brain doesn't see what your eyes do and reads what it expects to be there, both with typos and grammatical errors.

I believe the application deadline was last Friday, hence the link removal.

Brushmonkey
15-02-2010, 19:49
I used to do proof-reading, and it's harder than it sounds. Your brain doesn't see what your eyes do and reads what it expects to be there, both with typos and grammatical errors.

I believe the application deadline was last Friday, hence the link removal.

Drat, I only heard about it today!

Melvaius
18-02-2010, 19:12
Hi all

I applied for this position as well, just wondering if any of you applicants have heard anything yet. Did any one send any of their own material in to look at?

Inquisitor Engel
18-02-2010, 21:55
Well I got my reply:




Dear Jonathan,


Thank you for your application for the position of Assistant Games Developer.

We were impressed by your resume and the previous work you have done for Games Workshop in the past was commendable and well-done.

Unfortunately, due to the high volume of applicants who are based either in the UK or within the European Union we feel we will be able to select a suitable candidate. As a result, at this stage, we will not be taking your application any further. We will however, keep your application on file for four months.

We understand that this news may be disappointing, but we hope that you understand our reasons and that this does not deter you from applying for future suitable roles at Games Workshop in your area.

Yours sincerely

[Redacted]


My reference in the Studio has since left but Gav said that GW (and many UK and EU companies in general) prefer to hire within the EU due to regulations and other such things, so it's not entirely surprising.

Next time one comes up I'll be sure to mention that I'm a UK Citizen. :p

Ah well, best of luck to those who have better chances than I!

Harry
19-02-2010, 00:47
Do you know if he went back to Baltimore or to Memphis?

I thought the staff up there was being moved to Memphis?
Sorry.I don't know. I guess he went back wherever he came from.

If indeed he has left yet. it is possible he is still here but last time I saw him he told me he was heading home.

Angelwing
19-02-2010, 01:58
im wondering if as part of the interview you have to fight Kirk in an arena surrouded by braying romans while the old Star trek fight music plays....

Probably better than the old redshirt interview that boiled down to whomever could scream 'waaaaaargh' at the top of their voice without a hint of embarrassment got employed.

Captain Cortez
19-02-2010, 02:28
Dang I would totally send my Application. They need to mix some Americans in the British tea anyways:p.

Melvaius
19-02-2010, 07:46
Thank you for your application for the position of Assistant Games Developer. Ref 50



Your application is currently being considered and we will be in touch again to let you know the outcome of your application. Please do not hesitate to contact us on 0115 9168000 should you have any queries.



If you do not receive an outcome to your application within 10 working days, then please get in touch with us.



In the meantime, thank you for your interest in Games Workshop.



Yours sincerely


Thats the response I got and that was last wednesday, I've heard nothing since. I'm guessing my rejection is probably imminent though lol.

tu33y
19-02-2010, 09:14
honestly, if one of you gets this job after i mentioned it (and you wouldn't have been wise if i hadnt) my karma will be tipped back so high all the bad things iv done (and i know my next life will be a slug) will be cleared and i might actuall y get to heaven!

good luck to everyone who has applied. if we are honest every one of us would sell a kidney to work there.... GOOD LUCK!

Melvaius
19-02-2010, 14:00
Actually I check the career section on a regular basis, I found this out the thursday before last. Also I applied on the deadline, I just didn't share the love lol, still i've got a cats chance on a main road of getting it.

Arjuna
21-02-2010, 08:35
Too true. :(

Witness Arjuna's "its pretty cheap" for "it's pretty cheap"...

Hate to break it to you but this is a forum, not a publication. If you give a crap about a typo on a forum, well lol to you, as you will never have the time to really amount to much in real life. If you want a sample of my writing, pm me and I will send you a pdf of something I have published that has passed scientific peer review, which is a high bar for publication.

Editing by the way is quite a different skill than "writing." It helps to be skilled at both but you do not need to be a "good writer" in order to be an excellent editor. Good editors are a dime a dozen, apparently though, that is more than GW is willing to invest in.

Radium
21-02-2010, 08:46
if we are honest every one of us would sell a kidney to work there....

Too true...


Hate to break it to you but this is a forum, not a publication.

Yes, but the forum rules state you have to use proper spelling and punctuation. In the case of its vs it's, it's clear to most people what you're trying to say but for a lot of us non-native speakers it gets a lot harder to understand what people are trying to say when they leave grammar at the door.

RobC
22-02-2010, 09:26
Good editors are a dime a dozen, apparently though, that is more than GW is willing to invest in.Really? Why does my professional society insist we charge a minimum of 22 an hour for copy-editing, then? Hardly 'dime a dozen'.

Good editors aren't cheap, but companies overlook the need for well-edited writing. People seem much more willing to allow typos than an artistic equivalent (though a quick trip to Photoshop Disasters shows that the bar's inching inexorably lower for that too).

asura
22-02-2010, 09:49
I hope the new game developer will propose some cool ideas to the creative team such as plastic plague bearers, thunderwolve cavalery models of the space wolves (plastic kit) and some tyranids upgrade sprues (boneswords...)!
;)

Corrode
22-02-2010, 11:56
Details of e-mail redacted

--

I only applied on a whim, *********** hell :|

Aurellis
22-02-2010, 12:03
Sounds like a tough task but i'm sure it'll be fun to design.

Good luck :)

narrativium
22-02-2010, 12:33
Tough deadline. I hope you know War of the Rings.

Curufew
22-02-2010, 13:40
Wow, this is interesting. It kinda sucks if you don't play the WOTR game system though

Corrode
22-02-2010, 13:46
Sounds like a tough task but i'm sure it'll be fun to design.

Good luck :)


Tough deadline. I hope you know War of the Rings.


Wow, this is interesting. It kinda sucks if you don't play the WOTR game system though

Well, I own the rulebook...

(I may be in trouble here).

Brother Loki
22-02-2010, 14:00
I got the same email. I've never played LotR or WotR (not through any dislike, I just could never justify starting to collect another fantasy game when I have so many 40k and WFB armies I want to do), so I've got some serious swotting up to do this week.

500 words and a map. Should be a good test of editing skills as well as writing.

McMullet
22-02-2010, 14:24
...I've got some serious swotting up to do this week.

Me too....

Although this has to be the oddest way to try and get a job, it should at least be more fun than filling out another boring form.

It's interesting that they chose WotR as the system to test applicants.

Wintertooth
22-02-2010, 14:28
Considering their well-known antipathy for internet forums, if I was serious about applying for a job at GW, I might think twice about documenting the recruitment process on here. It's an interesting read, but don't hamstring your application on our account.


Wow, this is interesting. It kinda sucks if you don't play the WOTR game system though

According to posts at the start of this thread, the job description specified a full understanding of their current rules.

Enazel
22-02-2010, 14:33
I bet the reason they chosen WoTR is because not as many people play it, so will be a challenge for most people. But yes guys if you though stage one I suggest you keep your mouths shut, as GW might get slighty annoyed at documenting there Recruitment processes.

Corrode
22-02-2010, 14:36
It's interesting that they chose WotR as the system to test applicants.

It makes a lot of sense. 40k is hugely popular, and it and Fantasy have been around forever. WotR has only been out since last year and its uptake is in large part a subset of the larger LotR uptake. It's much more likely for a potential developer to be unfamiliar with WotR than it is 40k or Fantasy - managing to write a good scenario for a game you're not terribly familiar with shows a great degree of adaptability.

e: Wintertooth's post is wise. I've removed the text of the e-mail, better safe than sorry.

MalusCalibur
22-02-2010, 15:22
I applied for this same position, and got the same email response as Corrode. I've never played Lord of the Rings and now I have to write a scenario for it....but hey, I like a challenge!

Another one for the 'Warseer Member Games Development Position' race!

Kriegschmidt
22-02-2010, 16:09
This is so exciting! People on Warseer applying for a real GW job! Good luck chaps, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! :)

Grimstonefire
22-02-2010, 22:13
Rather than start another thread (as this is vaguely on topic), does anyone here know if they advertise on their website for positions other than designers (rules/ sculpters) or 'legendary' managers. I.e. back office staff.

selfconstrukt
22-02-2010, 23:14
Rather than start another thread (as this is vaguely on topic), does anyone here know if they advertise on their website for positions other than designers (rules/ sculptors) or 'legendary' managers. I.e. back office staff.

On occasion I have seen positions open for moldmaking, casting and once for accounting, but usually the open positions are mostly for retail or sales.

In the US, the open positions are almost always for retail and trade sales staff.

Most of the time those positions go to internal staff rather than GW going outside to hire.

I think there are a few positions open for sales managers and one in legal for the UK.

Inquisitor Engel
23-02-2010, 03:09
Just as an FYI to the lot of you making it this far - If my experience as a tester goes, documenting your progress this far is an easy brush off, but ANY MORE you post here puts your application in jeopardy.

frozenwastes
23-02-2010, 03:26
Just as an FYI to the lot of you making it this far - If my experience as a tester goes, documenting your progress this far is an easy brush off, but ANY MORE you post here puts your application in jeopardy.

Exactly. GW is all about a lack of transparency and communication with their customers. If you document your process here and discuss it, you're sending them the clear signal that you don't fit into their corporate yes-man culture.

InquisitorRex
23-02-2010, 09:03
Rather than start another thread (as this is vaguely on topic), does anyone here know if they advertise on their website for positions other than designers (rules/ sculpters) or 'legendary' managers. I.e. back office staff.

Yes, absolutely.

Look on the bottom of the screen, click careers... go nuts ;)

Adam

RobC
23-02-2010, 09:07
Exactly. GW is all about a lack of transparency and communication with their customers. If you document your process here and discuss it, you're sending them the clear signal that you don't fit into their corporate yes-man culture.To be fair to GW, I can think of very few companies that would be keen on you discussing the job application process in a public space such as this. This has absolutely nothing to do with any perceived communication issues, and lots to do with how big companies operate right now.

Seriously: if you're going to have a go at GW for something, at least choose something worth sniping about.

Kriegschmidt
23-02-2010, 10:21
This thread is a great opportunity to generate and share enthusiasm amongst those applying for this position.... so let's take the anti-GW whining somewhere else.

Having interviewed other people for jobs, I know that it's hard to demonstrate sustained enthusiasm for a position, "sell" yourself as well as you can and come across as a positive, forward-thinking and committed individual. So when other people are sniping about your potential employer, it's only going to make that much harder.

So let's give these people a chance and support them in their applications.

Occulto
23-02-2010, 11:43
To be fair to GW, I can think of very few companies that would be keen on you discussing the job application process in a public space such as this. This has absolutely nothing to do with any perceived communication issues, and lots to do with how big companies operate right now.

Seriously: if you're going to have a go at GW for something, at least choose something worth sniping about.

"Part of this job involves a rigorous Non-Disclosure-Agreement. You capable of keeping your mouth shut about what goes on behind that locked door?"

"Sure."

"Why should we believe you, when you documented every step of your confidential interview process online?"

"Erm..."

Corrode
23-02-2010, 13:04
Exactly. GW is all about a lack of transparency and communication with their customers. If you document your process here and discuss it, you're sending them the clear signal that you don't fit into their corporate yes-man culture.

Yeah I in no way feel like I'm put upon - GW haven't said anything either way. It's just common sense, and I'm honestly a little embarassed to have said what I did becase I can't imagine any other job where you'd post on a company- or other specific-to-that-job form and tell everyone exactly what you were doing in the recruitment process. I'm planning to keep quiet beyond a general 'hey, I failed' or 'hey, I did ok' from now on.

Chaos and Evil
23-02-2010, 13:44
I'm planning to keep quiet beyond a general 'hey, I failed' or 'hey, I did ok' from now on.
Having identified yourself (and if you do land the job, and relate here that you were hired) every one of your previous posts to this forum will end up scrutinised minutely by a horde of forum lawyers. :shifty:

At best, you'll end up with half a million PM's asking you to fix XXX rule. :rolleyes:

Corrode
23-02-2010, 15:16
Having identified yourself (and if you do land the job, and relate here that you were hired) every one of your previous posts to this forum will end up scrutinised minutely by a horde of forum lawyers. :shifty:

At best, you'll end up with half a million PM's asking you to fix XXX rule. :rolleyes:

Hey, GavT manages and he's much better known than I'll ever be.

frozenwastes
24-02-2010, 05:14
What I was saying wasn't a snipe at GW. It's how companies operate. GW is all about non-disclosure agreements and lawyering up. While some companies might love the idea of people having a positive buzz about working there and would welcome someone blogging or posting on a forum about the whole process, I get the feeling that's not GW. They really do have a corporate culture that is made for yes-men to thrive in and innovators are shown the door or leave out of frustration for their wasted efforts.

GW's approach to forums and the internet is "We are above them." So if you show yourself to fit into a web forum and openly talk about things, you make yourself a round peg trying to fit into a square hole.

Dai-Mongar
24-02-2010, 08:02
What I was saying wasn't a snipe at GW. It's how companies operate. GW is all about non-disclosure agreements and lawyering up. While some companies might love the idea of people having a positive buzz about working there and would welcome someone blogging or posting on a forum about the whole process, I get the feeling that's not GW. They really do have a corporate culture that is made for yes-men to thrive in and innovators are shown the door or leave out of frustration for their wasted efforts.

GW's approach to forums and the internet is "We are above them." So if you show yourself to fit into a web forum and openly talk about things, you make yourself a round peg trying to fit into a square hole.

That sounds like a snipe to me. Actually, no, more of a slam.
Do you actually know what working for GW is like or is this just the standard anti-GW vitriol?

Corrode
24-02-2010, 11:59
What I was saying wasn't a snipe at GW. It's how companies operate. GW is all about non-disclosure agreements and lawyering up. While some companies might love the idea of people having a positive buzz about working there and would welcome someone blogging or posting on a forum about the whole process, I get the feeling that's not GW. They really do have a corporate culture that is made for yes-men to thrive in and innovators are shown the door or leave out of frustration for their wasted efforts.

GW's approach to forums and the internet is "We are above them." So if you show yourself to fit into a web forum and openly talk about things, you make yourself a round peg trying to fit into a square hole.

'It's how companies operate. While some companies might love...'

Contradiction much? You've generalised to 'all companies' and then gone straight on to specify GW. I think this conversation is probably over.

Wintertooth
24-02-2010, 14:03
What I was saying wasn't a snipe at GW. It's how companies operate. GW is all about non-disclosure agreements and lawyering up. While some companies might love the idea of people having a positive buzz about working there and would welcome someone blogging or posting on a forum about the whole process, I get the feeling that's not GW. They really do have a corporate culture that is made for yes-men to thrive in and innovators are shown the door or leave out of frustration for their wasted efforts.

GW's approach to forums and the internet is "We are above them." So if you show yourself to fit into a web forum and openly talk about things, you make yourself a round peg trying to fit into a square hole.

What did they fire you for?

Llew
24-02-2010, 14:17
What I was saying wasn't a snipe at GW. It's how companies operate. GW is all about non-disclosure agreements and lawyering up. While some companies might love the idea of people having a positive buzz about working there and would welcome someone blogging or posting on a forum about the whole process, I get the feeling that's not GW.

As anyone who has read any of my posts knows, I'm perfectly happy to lambaste GW for anything dumb they do. (Some would say that previous sentence would stand just fine if I took the word "dumb" out of it.) Wanting their interview process to remain somewhat secret isn't something to take them to task for. It's a smart decision on a number of counts.

First, a big part of being a games developer there is being able to keep your mouth shut. We can debate the value of rumor as a marketing tool, but in the end, GW wants control of the information and as an employer that's their right. It makes sense to see how the prospective employee can do with that.

Second, you don't want other people to get a leg up on what the tests will be. GW wouldn't want to give a guy an assignment as part of his interview process, have him turn out something great and then later find out it was only because he had a couple week headstart over the other candidates. It's a method of keeping the interview process more level.

Picking on GW is fun and all, but this is just a non-starter. They have a right to expect a certain amount of discretion in their interview process.

Now, if a Warseer member wins the position, it'd be great if he were able to post about his experience as much as he could without jeopardizing his new job. That'd be interesting and instructive for everyone here, I'm sure.

Inquisitor Engel
24-02-2010, 17:25
Hey, GavT manages and he's much better known than I'll ever be.

Gav isn't a member of the studio anymore and hasn't been for some time.

Andy Hoare used to post VERY SELDOMLY here occasionally and Pete Haines occasionally said Hi on Portent by none of them ever commented on a rumour. Ever.

Jim30
24-02-2010, 18:26
Am I alone in thinking that the requirement to do something based on WOTR is based as much on a desire to drive up sales, as legions of applicants rush out to buy the 30 manual as it is to demonstrate their skills :-)

Heres betting that everyone who applied made the first cut for that very reason!

(Joke not GW hate!)

Aurellis
24-02-2010, 18:41
Am I alone in thinking that the requirement to do something based on WOTR is based as much on a desire to drive up sales, as legions of applicants rush out to buy the 30 manual as it is to demonstrate their skills :-)

Heres betting that everyone who applied made the first cut for that very reason!

(Joke not GW hate!)

More to do with the fact that it's their latest games system and anyone working for the design team would need to know it intimately.

frozenwastes
24-02-2010, 21:05
That sounds like a snipe to me. Actually, no, more of a slam.
Do you actually know what working for GW is like or is this just the standard anti-GW vitriol?

I haven't worked for GW, but I do know 4 people who have, who were either all fired or all quit after rubbing up against management for trying to effect change in a corporate environment. They've gone on to be very successful in their endeavors. Very few companies can handle entrepreneurs among their employees.


'It's how companies operate. While some companies might love...'

Contradiction much? You've generalised to 'all companies' and then gone straight on to specify GW. I think this conversation is probably over.

Companies *generally* want to keep their hiring processes and as many internal matters as possible confidential. Some innovative companies would want publicity about their hiring. Google is a good example-- they love it when their employees talk about how different their corporate culture is and how goal oriented their recruitment process is. Sorry I forgot the word "generally".


What did they fire you for?

See above. Never worked for them, though they tried to recruit me once but I would have had to relocate to another province and the pay they offered was terrible. GW Canada doesn't really exist anymore though, so it was probably a good career move not to work for them.


Wanting their interview process to remain somewhat secret isn't something to take them to task for. It's a smart decision on a number of counts.

Absolutely. It's par for the course when it comes to a corporate environment. it takes a very special kind of company to be able to handle public knowledge of their hiring processes and turn that into a net benefit. GW isn't that type of company.


Picking on GW is fun and all, but this is just a non-starter. They have a right to expect a certain amount of discretion in their interview process.

I don't believe it's picking on them or slamming them to point out that they have a very typical "yes-man" oriented corporate culture. The same can be said of probably 95+% of companies out there.

I think a lot of GW's customers think that the design studio is where positive change could happen. That working there is somehow going to be unlike a normal job. That GW is somehow going to be different than the majority of other companies.

This just isn't the case. And parading your application for the position on a message board is sending them the clear message that you are not approaching it in a way fitting with how they operate.

Watching people talk about working in the design studio is like watching recent graphic design students in their job hunts. Many think they're going to be "artistes" and that companies hiring them want them for their creativity. That they'll have lots of opportunities to express themselves and innovate.

Then the reality of being the most junior member of a creative team hits. And when the most senior member of the creative team end up looking for greener passages because of management design constraints, you know the "yes-men" culture is well established.