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BrotherCaptainS
12-02-2010, 14:04
I know I'm not the only one, but who else knows that the standard land raider is called the phobos and not the godhammer. The lascannons are godhammer pattern but the tank itself is the phobos. Help me out people raise awareness. Its a phobos pattern land raider. No more posting the land raider godhammer.

Kurisu313
12-02-2010, 14:14
I have vague memories of reading that, but was never able to confirm it.

spud75
12-02-2010, 14:14
Really? Does it actually matter?

genestealer_baldric
12-02-2010, 14:16
i allways thought that godhammer was the one with extra lascannons one in apocalyspe but i may be mistaken.

Kurisu313
12-02-2010, 14:20
i allways thought that godhammer was the one with extra lascannons one in apocalyspe but i may be mistaken.

Thats the Terminus

MajorWesJanson
12-02-2010, 14:51
I know I'm not the only one, but who else knows that the standard land raider is called the phobos and not the godhammer. The lascannons are godhammer pattern but the tank itself is the phobos. Help me out people raise awareness. Its a phobos pattern land raider. No more posting the land raider godhammer.

I've been trying to remember the pattern name. Thanks

It's not as catchy though:
Redeemer Raider
Godhammer Raider
Crusader Raider

ehlijen
12-02-2010, 14:59
Raise awareness? Honestly, why?

It's the land raider. Not the crusader, not the redeemer, just the land raider. Sure, it's nice that it had a name once, but insisting on using it is just going to confuse people for the sake of retaining a minor fact from an older edition.

Just like tactical dreadnaughts are now terminators and space marine veterans are now sternguard, we'll get (or have gotten) used to it.

Eulenspiegel
12-02-2010, 15:07
Phobos, eh?

Does that mean itīs scary? Or scared? ;)

Ph4lanx
12-02-2010, 15:07
I've been trying to remember the pattern name. Thanks

It's not as catchy though:
Redeemer Raider
Godhammer Raider
Crusader Raider

It's not supposed to be catchy. It's a pattern name, not the actual name :) And before you say it, I know the others are known by their pattern names, but that's because there isn't another established name for them.

Just like Titans and people who confused Emperor Class Titans with Imperator and Warmonger patterns :)

Tethylis
12-02-2010, 15:11
Land Raider is just the name given to the basic hull design. Like the Leman Russ, there are many varients on this design. Here is a list of most of them

Phobos:Sponson Twin Linked Lascannons
Redeemer:Sponson Flamestorm Cannons
Crusader:Sponson Hurricane Bolters
Helios:Top/Hull mounted Whirlwind Missiles
Terminus:All round Lascannons
Ares:Hull mounted Demolisher Cannon
Prometheus:Sponson Quad Heavy Bolters

IJW
12-02-2010, 15:18
Does that mean itīs scary? Or scared? ;)
Or orbiting Mars... or possibly even a Greek god, so 'scary' would be my guess.

IAMNOTHERE
12-02-2010, 15:25
I knew but I'm a Land Raider Nut.

BrotherCaptainS
12-02-2010, 15:36
I'm all for people being correct. When I see somebody write land raider godhammer, it just strikes me as silly. I know that's the lascannon pattern and so do many of you. I started in third edition and I knew it was the phobos pattern. Its like calling the crusader the land raider hurricane. Hmm... You know I might have to convert something to fit that name and design a new land raider. In all honesty its just a fun fyi post. However, I love my four phobos pattern land raiders. They are the best.

scar face
12-02-2010, 15:45
Tethylis, the Land raider Promethius has flame weapons (heavy flamers I think), not heavy bolters, hence it's flame related name.

scar

Ph4lanx
12-02-2010, 16:05
Tethylis, the Land raider Promethius has flame weapons (heavy flamers I think), not heavy bolters, hence it's flame related name.

scar

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Land_Raider_Prometheus

You might want to read that mate.

scar face
12-02-2010, 17:01
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Land_Raider_Prometheus

You might want to read that mate.

Wow, Ok.. looks like a GW article got it wrong again :P...

wonder why it's called the promethius though... you'd think that name would go with a flaming tank :P

scar

gamble
12-02-2010, 17:23
prometheus? are you thinking about promethium?

Eulenspiegel
12-02-2010, 17:35
prometheus? are you thinking about promethium?

Looks like.
Itīs understandable, though, regarding Prometheusī story.
It would have been a hell of a cool name for the flamer-Raider.


Or orbiting Mars... or possibly even a Greek god, so 'scary' would be my guess.
Of cause "phobia" was derived from Phobos. And the moon named after him :)


Isnīt this off-topic enough to go to the wastes yet?

Lord Damocles
12-02-2010, 19:27
Raise awareness? Honestly, why?
Same reason any background and/or terminology error should be corrected surely?

Because calling the Phobos the Godhammer is wrong.



Phobos:Sponson Twin Linked Lascannons
Redeemer:Sponson Flamestorm Cannons
Crusader:Sponson Hurricane Bolters
Helios:Top/Hull mounted Whirlwind Missiles
Terminus:All round Lascannons
Ares:Hull mounted Demolisher Cannon
Prometheus:Sponson Quad Heavy Bolters
Don't forget the Deimos, Spartan, and Tartarus.

Considering the relative rarity of the Land Raider, it's doing rather well for variants.



wonder why it's called the promethius though... you'd think that name would go with a flaming tank :P
Codex: Space Marines (5th ed.), pg.83.

Almost like that question was anticipated...

AndrewGPaul
12-02-2010, 20:18
It's not supposed to be catchy. It's a pattern name, not the actual name :) And before you say it, I know the others are known by their pattern names, but that's because there isn't another established name for them.

Just like Titans and people who confused Emperor Class Titans with Imperator and Warmonger patterns :)

While we're being pedantic, Imperator and Warmonger aren't patterns, any more than Whirlwinds and Vindicators are different patterns of Rhino.

MajorWesJanson
12-02-2010, 20:20
Don't forget the Deimos, Spartan, and Tartarus.
Isn't the Spartan the version with two single heavy bolters, one forward and one rear? What are the other two?

MegaPope
12-02-2010, 20:58
http://usuarios.multimania.es/inquisitorweb/spartan3.jpg

The Spartan was the original Terminator battle bus

Alessander
12-02-2010, 21:20
A Spartan was a (1st ed) plastic land raider with a rhino chassis stuck in the middle of it between the tracks.

chromedog
13-02-2010, 00:55
Not quite.
It was a land raider with the front end of a rhino grafted to the forward hull plate.

I knew about the Phobos pattern - but I still have the LR poster up on my gaming cupboard.

ehlijen
13-02-2010, 01:50
Same reason any background and/or terminology error should be corrected surely?

Because calling the Phobos the Godhammer is wrong.


If GW themselves have chosen to call it nothing other than 'Land raider', how is any other name 'correct'?

I'm not saying you're wrong calling it the phobos, but neither am I calling it the bog standard or vanilla. Even calling it the godhammer isn't wrong. It is after all a land raider with godhammers.

Just like the phrase 'Fireknife' appears in no Tau codex, the Phobos part of the name isn't standard reference material a player is expected to own.

So we're essentially asking people to use the an obscure, nonstandard name for a plastic toy tank representation of a fictional vehicle simply because the guys who made it up used to call it that a while ago.

I'm not saying don't use it. I'm saying that this is hardly something one can realistically raise awareness about even within gamer circles because it's really not much of a cause.

Lord Lorne Walkier
13-02-2010, 03:22
I know I'm not the only one, but who else knows that the standard land raider is called the phobos and not the godhammer. The lascannons are godhammer pattern but the tank itself is the phobos. Help me out people raise awareness. Its a phobos pattern land raider. No more posting the land raider godhammer.
Wow.... I was starting to think i was the only one who might call themself a "Landite". My brother Cap let me say that this has kept me up at night thinking on what how and where i would bring this very subject up. You beat me and i salute you.
/salute



Really? Does it actually matter?
I think it matters for one reason. When one wants to do a internet search for information on Land Raider Tactica, and you want information on the Classic pattern. You could loose out on some really good posts all because they were titled "Goodhammer". If you want info on Crusader stuff there wont be a problem. For what ever reason people have issue with the Name Phobos. Some feel it is not the name they are comfortable because it only came to light after the Crusader was introduced. To them it feels like a last minuet thing. Some think it was non GW people who came up with the name and so there fore its not Fluffy. To those i would only point to the Lower right corner of the Index Astates Article on the page that the LR diagram is on. It clearly say PHOBOS next to the word Pattern. Cant say GW has nothing to do with Index Astartes.


Phobos, eh?

Does that mean itīs scary? Or scared? ;)
From what I have been able to gather it is the named after a Moon of Mars. This moon must have been apart of the greater Mars Forge world thang. From Reading the IA (inperial Armour)2 write up and the IA (Index Astartes )article, what makes a Phobos different then other patterns is the weapon load out, and the Class of Machine spirit, the kind that go in scout Titans. There are at least 3 types of Land Raider the Godhammers. Phobos, Terminus- Ultra, Helios.

Wow, Ok.. looks like a GW article got it wrong again :P...

wonder why it's called the promethius though... you'd think that name would go with a flaming tank :P

scar
So did the creators of the Redeemer. They called the Redeemer , Prometheus until they found out there was already a pattern with that name. They gave the name Prometheus to the first tank to bear that pattern in respect. This might were your confusion comes from. Let me tell you from experience that the Prometheus puts out PLENTY of heat. 4 twin linked Heavy B's do BAD things to most troops.

Giganthrax
13-02-2010, 03:59
Seriously, godhammer sounds about a hundred times cooler then phobos. No reason to "raise awareness".

Tethylis
13-02-2010, 07:10
Don't forget the Deimos, Spartan, and Tartarus.

Considering the relative rarity of the Land Raider, it's doing rather well for variants.

Ahh yes. I still have the old Spartan model, although its now part of a much larger battlewagon. Am not familier with the Deimos & Tartarus though, what are they?

The pestilent 1
13-02-2010, 08:40
Technically, given that it is named for someone shouldn't it be Land's Raider?

ehlijen
13-02-2010, 08:50
Technically, given that it is named for someone shouldn't it be Land's Raider?

Not neccessarily. Take the Marshall Plan and note that it's not Marshall's plan. Think of it not as the raider that belongs to Land, but as the raider that is of the Land brand.

Spyros80
13-02-2010, 09:49
Seriously, godhammer sounds about a hundred times cooler then phobos. No reason to "raise awareness".

Maybe there is a reason! ;)

"Phobos (Ancient -and modern- Greek Φόβος, "Fear") is the embodiment of fear and horror in Greek mythology. He is the offspring of Ares -god of war- and Aphrodite -god oflove/beauty-. He was known for accompanying Ares into battle along with his brother, Deimos, the goddess Enyo, and his father’s attendants."

More on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_%28mythology%29

NightrawenII
13-02-2010, 10:23
I'm not familiar with the Deimos & Tartarus though, what are they?
Same here. Search yield no results.:(

Maybe there is a reason! ;)

"Phobos (Ancient -and modern- Greek Φόβος, "Fear") is the embodiment of fear and horror in Greek mythology. He is the offspring of Ares -god of war- and Aphrodite -god oflove/beauty-. He was known for accompanying Ares into battle along with his brother, Deimos, the goddess Enyo, and his father’s attendants."

More on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_%28mythology%29
Hm, so Im not the only one.:shifty:

Edit:

So we're essentially asking people to use the an obscure, nonstandard name for a plastic toy tank representation of a fictional vehicle simply because the guys who made it up used to call it that a while ago.
No, he is asking people not using another nonstandard and obscure name in wrong way.;)

Lord Damocles
13-02-2010, 11:10
What are the other two?

Am not familier with the Deimos & Tartarus though, what are they?

Same here. Search yield no results.:(

Hm, so Im not the only one.:shifty:
The Demos crops up in 'Index Astartes: The Black Templars' in White Dwarf 249, pg.54, although no description is given.

The Tartarus is was mentioned in 'Promethius' in Citadel Journal Issue 41, pg.28 (possibly also in Imperial Armour Volume 2 alongside the Promethius rules, although I don't have a copy to check). All it says is, '...the similarities between the Promethius and the Tartarus pattern are undeniable'.

Codex Titanicus, pg.35 shows what appears to be a plasma-armed Land Raider, so it's possible that this might be the Demos.

MajorWesJanson
13-02-2010, 17:04
The Tartarus is was mentioned in 'Promethius' in Citadel Journal Issue 41, pg.28 (possibly also in Imperial Armour Volume 2 alongside the Promethius rules, although I don't have a copy to check). All it says is, '...the similarities between the Promethius and the Tartarus pattern are undeniable'.

Sounds like a Command Raider with different Sponson layout

Archangel_Ruined
13-02-2010, 17:26
Plasma armed landraider? Apocalypse conversion, anyone?

IJW
13-02-2010, 17:43
From what I have been able to gather it is the named after a Moon of Mars.
As mentioned several times now, the moon of Mars is named after the Greek god Phobos...

MegaPope
13-02-2010, 18:26
Not quite.
It was a land raider with the front end of a rhino grafted to the forward hull plate.

Yes, this was to give it a bigger hull so it could transport Terminators in a decent number.

Also, read the text next to the picture: "Spartan Terminator Battle Tank". It's a bit of a giveaway, I think ;).

BrotherCaptainS
13-02-2010, 19:01
hmm... The spartan, demos and tartarus really spark my interest. may have to convert them. weapons payloads we need to find out for sure. a plasma raider would be sweet. demos here I come.

Giganthrax
13-02-2010, 19:09
Maybe there is a reason! ;)

"Phobos (Ancient -and modern- Greek Φόβος, "Fear") is the embodiment of fear and horror in Greek mythology. He is the offspring of Ares -god of war- and Aphrodite -god oflove/beauty-. He was known for accompanying Ares into battle along with his brother, Deimos, the goddess Enyo, and his father’s attendants."

More on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_%28mythology%29
Nice try, but Godhammer still sounds a million times cooler then Phobos.

I mean, it's GOD-FECKIN-HAMMER. It's so totally within the spirit of 40k that it isn't even funny. Phobos is just meh, and it reminds me of that guy from Quake 3 Arena.

Chaos Undecided
13-02-2010, 19:16
Forge world snuck another pattern Land Raider into the Apocalypse 2 land raider formation, the Hecate which appears to have plasma cannon sponsons plus assault cannons in the hull mount/turret. Appears to be a member of the crusader family from its assault launchers as well. Guess the individual rules will appear in the next Imperial Armor campaign.

GodofWarTx
13-02-2010, 21:23
Nice try, but Godhammer still sounds a million times cooler then Phobos.

I mean, it's GOD-FECKIN-HAMMER. It's so totally within the spirit of 40k that it isn't even funny. Phobos is just meh, and it reminds me of that guy from Quake 3 Arena.

Which is why it is the name of the terrifically powerful primary weapons system.


Even though the "Rheinmetall" is a wicked awesome name , we dont call the M1 Abrams the Rheinmetall , as its the name of its incredibly badass 120mm main gun.

:D

neko
13-02-2010, 21:59
Am I the only one who thinks that Phobos sounds decent, and that Godhammer sounds meh? As in the "I know, I think I'll let my kids name this tank" level of meh?

destroyerlord
13-02-2010, 23:20
Thats pretty cool, I never knew its name before...always thought it was a bit weird that it didn't have a name.
To be honest I'd never heard anyone call it a 'godhammer' land raider until I saw it in the title of a thread on the army building forum last week. I assumed it was a new trend started since the 5th ed marines 'dex, since there are 3 codex variants now.
I agree that calling it a godhammer is pretty silly, although I must admit that is how most of the vehicles in 40k are named:
All Lemun Russ variants
Whirlwind
'Rail-Head'/'Ion-Head'
Fire Prism etc.

However none of the other Land Raider variants are named for their weapons, and quite frankly, naming them after Greek Gods is a lot cooler than thinking up 'killy' names (Redeemer, Vindicator etc.)

Archangel_Ruined
14-02-2010, 12:50
Well, Prometheus wasn't a god and things didn't turn out so well for him, but point taken on the cool factor.

NightrawenII
14-02-2010, 13:14
+1 for Phobos here.
IMHO the Tantalus Lander was way cooler, than the "new" Storm Harbinger.

Lord Lorne Walkier
16-02-2010, 03:44
Forge world snuck another pattern Land Raider into the Apocalypse 2 land raider formation, the Hecate which appears to have plasma cannon sponsons plus assault cannons in the hull mount/turret. Appears to be a member of the crusader family from its assault launchers as well. Guess the individual rules will appear in the next Imperial Armor campaign.

Oh really? would you give some details on this new formation?

Tourniquet
16-02-2010, 07:52
wonder why it's called the promethius though... you'd think that name would go with a flaming tank :P


maybe the original one was bubble gum pink with fish net camo netting?

Also +1 for Phobos for me. I like the idea behind the name, inspiring fear in its enemies

fluffstalker
16-02-2010, 09:30
Godhammer>Phobos.

/Thread.

Shatterclaw
17-12-2010, 06:42
Okay, Just to make sure we're clear on this matter, and when i mean we're i mean myself, and all the little voice in my head. I've recently become obsessed with this very subjected, only i knew about nine of the Land Raider patters. Up till this point no one has had them all in one place.. soo here goes.. (Please, let me know if i got any thing wrong, and if i did, I am humbly sorry.

Land Raider ( armaments,twin linked Heavy bolter, two twin linked lascannons.) ( Once called Phobes?)

Land Raider Crusader twin linked Assault cannon, two Hurricane bolters assualt launchers

Land Raider Redeemer ( twin linked assault cannons, Inferno cannons assault launchers )

Land Raider Helios ( Two twin linked las Cannons, whirlwind launcher. )

Land Raider Prometheus ( two Twin linked heavy bolters.. command unit. )

Land Raider Achilles (thunder fire cannon two twin linked mulit meltas

Land Raider Ares ( Vindacator cannon, two twin linked flamers)

Land Raider Terminus Ultra ( Three twin linked las cannons, two las cannons )

Hellfire Land Raider ( two las cannons and one pintle mounted bolter could be upgraded to two twin linked las cannons and two pintle mounted bolters.)

Land Raider Hecate ( Plasma cannons.?)

Land Raider Demos ( Las cannons, old style body.. Mk I land raider?)

Land Raider Tartarus (disappeared after the stander land raider came in to use.. twin linked las cannons with an upgrade of a heavy bolter or flamer.

Land Raider Spartan ( Two twin linked Las cannons one heavy bolter of heavy flamer )

I think that everything, save the weapon count on the Hecate. The hellfire, Tartarus and spartan seem to be obsolete as far as weapon kit out and game terms. the only advantage would be the six heavy bolter shots..

So that's 11 Land Raiders to date.. I do believe we need one more for a nice dozen.. but that's just me..

Lord Damocles
17-12-2010, 11:04
Land Raider ( armaments,twin linked Heavy bolter, two twin linked lascannons.) ( Once called Phobes?)
Still called the Phobos. Eg. Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2 'Land Raider City-Breaker Squadron' (Belasarius)



Land Raider Hecate ( Plasma cannons.?)
The picture looks more like Flamestorm Cannons (the pilot light on the proper left sponson weapon, just visible over the hull for example) to me (Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2 'Land Raider City-Breaker Squadron')



Land Raider Demos ( Las cannons, old style body.. Mk I land raider?)
As far as I was aware, the Deimos has never actually been described (pretty much the only place it's ever mentioned being Index Astartes: Black Templars in White Dwarf 249)



Land Raider Tartarus (disappeared after the stander land raider came in to use.. twin linked las cannons with an upgrade of a heavy bolter or flamer.
Where is this from? Imperial Armour 2: Space Marines and Forces of the Inquisition (and the cut'n'paste Citadel Journal article) note that the Promethius is undeniably similar to the Tartarus.


There also does appear to be a 'Plasma Raider' out there somewhere (Codex Titanicus, pg.35)

hungry hungry hormagaunt
17-12-2010, 11:33
As far as Lexicanum can be trusted as an accurate source, the original Land Raider was the Hellfire variant, equipped with lascannon sponsons and a pintle-mounted bolter. It was later upgraded to carry twin-linked lascannon sponsons and two heavy bolters. The later Spartan variant retained the twin-linked lascannons but exchanged one heavy bolter for an improved transport capacity (being able to transport Terminators, which the Hellfire couldn't carry), and had the option to replace the other heavy bolter with a heavy flamer. The Phobos pattern looks like the best of both worlds, toting twin-linked lascannon sponsons, a hull-mounted twin linked heavy bolter, an optional storm bolter on a pintle mount, and with the Spartan's capability to transport terminators.

Judging by the naming schemes, I'd expect the Deimos was designed at about the same time as the Phobos, probably with similar design principles. For some reason, the Phobos seems to have become the gold standard while the Deimos isn't in common use any more.

Also, the Prometheus has four heavy bolters on each sponson mount, not two (plus a pintle storm bolter), and eschews further weapons in favour of command and communications equipment. The Tartarus is described as "similar" - whether this refers to the quad-heavy-bolter armament or to the communications equipment is unknown.

Some of the variants have more or less transport capacity than others. Notably, the Achilles sacrifices transport capacity for the equipment needed to provide the ferromantic shielding, the Helios replaces half the passenger compartment with a big pile of spare missiles for the whirlwind launcher, and the Crusader has a huge transport capacity since it doesn't need generators to power lascannons.

Zweischneid
17-12-2010, 11:40
Which is why it is the name of the terrifically powerful primary weapons system.


Even though the "Rheinmetall" is a wicked awesome name , we dont call the M1 Abrams the Rheinmetall , as its the name of its incredibly badass 120mm main gun.

:D

Um

Rheinmetall (http://www.rheinmetall.de/index.php?lang=3) isn't just some name, it's a company that might have been involved in producing the gun, but not the tank.
It takes its name from the river Rhein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein).

That said, 40K is fortunately a game, not a war, and GW (or, on occasion, the fanbase) are free to retcon lame old names with with cooler newer ones.

As far as fluff goes, more recent versions trump older (original) fluff and that's a very good thing.

Wishing
17-12-2010, 11:41
Same reason any background and/or terminology error should be corrected surely?

Because calling the Phobos the Godhammer is wrong.


Like calling an imperial knight a knight titan is wrong. :)

Ianos
17-12-2010, 12:52
Phobos, eh?

Does that mean itīs scary? Or scared? ;)

Ares ('Αρης), is the Olympian god of war who the romans called Mars. He rides to battle with his two sons, Phobos(fear, actually pronounced Fovos in Greek) and Deimos(terror).

+1 to Phobos from me btw!

Garven Dreis
17-12-2010, 13:31
If we really want to get pedantic, all the current Land Raiders aren't really even the original ones, so all the Traitor Legions should have different style Land Raiders.

Chaos should have a Chaos-only LR variant, something with Autocannons perhaps.

Godzooky
17-12-2010, 13:48
I'm looking forward to the Land Raider Oedipus. :p

Zweischneid
17-12-2010, 13:53
I'm looking forward to the Land Raider Oedipus. :p

Ahead of common fashion trends once again, Blood Angels today already like to field the fabled Land Raider Icarus.

AlphariusOmegon20
18-12-2010, 16:34
I know I'm not the only one, but who else knows that the standard land raider is called the phobos and not the godhammer. The lascannons are godhammer pattern but the tank itself is the phobos. Help me out people raise awareness. Its a phobos pattern land raider. No more posting the land raider godhammer.

Knew it. I have the IA article on the Land Raider. ;)


Tethylis, the Land raider Promethius has flame weapons (heavy flamers I think), not heavy bolters, hence it's flame related name.

scar

Because the Salamanders named it.


Which is why it is the name of the terrifically powerful primary weapons system.


Even though the "Rheinmetall" is a wicked awesome name , we dont call the M1 Abrams the Rheinmetall , as its the name of its incredibly badass 120mm main gun.

:D

Nor do we call it it a Chrysler, even though that's who originally developed it.

(Who ever though Chrysler would ever build anything useful???)

Mit Gas
18-12-2010, 17:46
Am I the only one who thinks that Phobos sounds decent, and that Godhammer sounds meh? As in the "I know, I think I'll let my kids name this tank" level of meh?

I agree. Godhammer sounds childish whereas Phobos was one of the two sons (the other being Deimos) of Mars. Those two sons were said to accompany their father, Ares (= war), cause Phobos and Deimos mean fright/terror.

That is cool. But I have a huge interest in greek and roman mythology and find it to be the most interesting era of history. and IMO Phobos sounds plain cool. Much like so many other famous names (like Tantalus, Thanatos, Nemesis, Catilina, Caligula et cetera - whether fictional, roman or greek, they got great names!).