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Eternus
17-02-2010, 10:04
I believe that many gamers - mainly veterans - believe that there is something of a rift between the older more established gamers and the younger newer gamers. I think the rift is more to do with age than length of service and that a new gamer who is older can find ready acceptance with other older gamers than a younger gamer can.

To give some context, I would consider 12-14 and under to be younger gamers and 15+ to be older gamers. There is something of a transitional area between about 15 and 18 I think, but that's just so you know where I'm coming from.

Is this rift a case of differing attitudes to the games between older and younger gamers, a difference in perceved maturity, or is it because the producers of our beloved games seem to be geared towards the next generation of gamers rather than the fan base as a whole?

Have you experienced the effects of this situation, either as a younger or older gamer, and is there smething that can be done to close the rift - or at least build a bridge across it?

Chaos and Evil
17-02-2010, 10:22
Wargames are a social activity, so at least in part you are asking why 12 year-olds don't hang around with 19 year-olds, not just when playing Warhammer, but in wider society...

Duke Georgal
17-02-2010, 10:33
I am in my 40's, and I never play with young players.

Simple reason for that, I game at my house, and there is no way I am inviting a child to my house for gaming. The "creepy" factor of such an action is too much.

I see kids playing at the FLGS, and I don't offer to join them. They are having their fun. They don't want some old guy hanging with them. What kid does?

Eternus
17-02-2010, 10:38
Wargames are a social activity, so at least in part you are asking why 12 year-olds don't hang around with 19 year-olds, not just when playing Warhammer, but in wider society...

In part, yes I suppose I am. In my mind having a favoured activity as a bond could override the typical segregation of the various age groups - young or new players are often enthusiastic, but remembering some of the poor choices I made as a young gamer they may benefit a great deal from the wisdom of an old hand.

Some people I have spoken to criticise the choices some younger gamers make and their approach to the hobby, but surely we older gamers have a certain responsibility to guide them in a way that concentrates more on their development as collectors, painters and gamers rather than The Man's approach which is driven more by a desire to part gamers or their parents from hard cash.

People of differing ages should be able to participate in the same activity, given minor allowances, if they have the right attitude. I mean, look at The Scout movement, or amatur theatre. I'm sure there are others.

Condottiere
17-02-2010, 10:46
It does go back to social interaction, and there's not much joy in crushing a youngster, and less if he crushes you.

DarthSte
17-02-2010, 10:50
For a 'pick up game' I'd be happy to play with anybody who doesn't throw a hissy fit if they lose and has enough respect for me as to not touch my models without permission. Generally I try to play with people of a similar age, as that's who my friends are.

Eternus
17-02-2010, 10:59
I am in my 40's, and I never play with young players.

Simple reason for that, I game at my house, and there is no way I am inviting a child to my house for gaming. The "creepy" factor of such an action is too much.

I see kids playing at the FLGS, and I don't offer to join them. They are having their fun. They don't want some old guy hanging with them. What kid does?

I am 29 and I currently help out at my local Cubs group - the kids are 8-10 - and I seem to converse with them just fine, and they want to speak to me about all sorts of things. Having kids round to your house may be unusual if they are not family though, so I appreciate that point.


It does go back to social interaction, and there's not much joy in crushing a youngster, and less if he crushes you.

Crushing an opponent and being crushed is not fun for at least one participant regardless of age, though I think a younger gamer could become disheartened more easily than an older gamer who is used to being crushed!

I think bearing that in mind, certain allowances need to be made as we would for any new gamer - you won't hold back against a 13 year old who has been playing for 3 years and has a full grasp of the rules and knows their army well, so it's not just age, experience plays a part as well, though age is a bigger barrier to actually building bridges to begin with I think.

ashc
17-02-2010, 11:38
I think playing at a club as opposed to random games in a store, and that club having open-minded gamers from both the young and older generations willing to teach and tolerate one another goes a long way to mitigating this.

Eternus
17-02-2010, 11:46
I think playing at a club as opposed to random games in a store, and that club having open-minded gamers from both the young and older generations willing to teach and tolerate one another goes a long way to mitigating this.

I agree with this whole heartedly. This has to be the future, otherwise the danger is that too many older gamers become disillusioned and drop out altogether. It would help if GW responded to older gamers points of view.

Aurellis
17-02-2010, 11:50
I think playing at a club as opposed to random games in a store, and that club having open-minded gamers from both the young and older generations willing to teach and tolerate one another goes a long way to mitigating this.

Agreed.

In my experience pick-up gaming tends to attract more WAAC players and lends to developing more annoying young players. Where as the young players i've come across at games nights or at clubs have all been pleasent, friendly and up for a fun game.

I 100% don't mind playing anyone of any age as long as they're happy to have a friendly, fun, not WAAC game.

Eternus
17-02-2010, 12:03
So where does the WAAC mentality come from?

Condottiere
17-02-2010, 12:08
Testosterone.

ashc
17-02-2010, 12:10
So where does the WAAC mentality come from?

I think some people are just wired like that, so, genetics? :confused:

Although there is certainly a nurture part to it; if you are brought up to be competitive then you will be competitive sort of thing.

And then there are those who are overcompensating for something. I think this is a big one; the losers in life who think the only way they can be king of the world is to be the BIG WINNAZ OF WARHAMMAZ!!!

Sad but true facts.

Lord Malorne
17-02-2010, 12:11
I believe that many gamers - mainly veterans - believe that there is something of a rift between the older more established gamers and the younger newer gamers. I think the rift is more to do with age than length of service and that a new gamer who is older can find ready acceptance with other older gamers than a younger gamer can.

To give some context, I would consider 12-14 and under to be younger gamers and 15+ to be older gamers. There is something of a transitional area between about 15 and 18 I think, but that's just so you know where I'm coming from.

Is this rift a case of differing attitudes to the games between older and younger gamers, a difference in perceved maturity, or is it because the producers of our beloved games seem to be geared towards the next generation of gamers rather than the fan base as a whole?

Have you experienced the effects of this situation, either as a younger or older gamer, and is there smething that can be done to close the rift - or at least build a bridge across it?

I view it the same way and I prefer to play 16+ most of teh time, there are exceptions, some younger have been better to play against and some older are to be avoided but I consider them exceptions.

Carlos
17-02-2010, 14:47
It depends who the older gamers are. If we're talking about older tournament gamers who have played in lots then the answer is they need to stay well, well away from the younger gamers so they dont all go about building power gamer lists which would make the game go downhill very quickly.

sliganian
17-02-2010, 14:54
To give some context, I would consider 12-14 and under to be younger gamers and 15+ to be older gamers. There is something of a transitional area between about 15 and 18 I think, but that's just so you know where I'm coming from.


I think you need some more granularity.

Categories:
12 and under
13 to 17
18 to 23
24 to 35
35 to 45
45+

Playing against each band has its own upsides and downsides.

sigur
17-02-2010, 15:03
I agree with this whole heartedly. This has to be the future, otherwise the danger is that too many older gamers become disillusioned and drop out altogether.

Why? It's been like that for a long time and many older players haven't quit. Some have but ...so what? I don't think that it's necessarily the notion of older gamers versus younger ones, there can be tons of reasons. And at some point, many people just feel to old for that stuff.



It would help if GW responded to older gamers points of view.

Well, sure, that's what we were asking for for about a decade but this is a whole different discussion.




So where does the WAAC mentality come from?

Just like this one. Maybe we should stick to ONE topic that has been discussed a million times before switching to another one.


I see that you're going into this with the best intentions but I think that (as with most threads), the whole thing was wrapped up in the first reply. It's just as Chaos and Evil said. You can't look beyond the age difference. I mean, I'm 26 now, went to the local GW store recently and felt really alienated (as most times I go there and watch games). It's just weird to stand by and watch 12 to 16something year old people a game of 40k. I don't think that I'm a creepy person per se but the whole situation felt so wrong.

If you have a social streak and get along with kids, that's great and makes you a perfect person to run a gaming club but I don't think that many of the older gamers just are like that and really enjoy hanging out with such young crowds.

But I got a nice little story: About 5 years ago, I attended a 40k gaming night at a LGS and there were basically two groups of players; the 14 year olds and a bunch of 18-20 year olds. The latter were being much more of an annoyance than the younger ones who were eager to learn, took advice and everything while the older ones were just like the worst example of 40k players I ever met (little terrain, no missions, one even cheated when playing one of the younger ones and got real pissed when he lost). I guess there's just well-behaved people and people you shouldn't play, no matter the age.

Eternus
17-02-2010, 16:27
So really there isn't an issue with age, the issue is with peoples personal ability to get on with others, regardless of age.

Thanks everyone for the opinions. If I can just say that the thing that triggered this, apart from my own experiences, was a conversation I had recently describing the way the GW stores had changed from being a social meeting point and store to being geared primarily towards the younger gamers, and that older gamers - as mentioned in this thread - felt uncomfortable, or were even advised that they should not be at the store if they were not taking part in a battle.

This made me quite angry, and I feel that it is important that a wide range of gamers are allowed to interact at every opportunity, otherwise, how do we pass on our skills and ideas to the next generation, or dicuss our hobby face to face with people outside our local gaming group?

For the record, I am 29, and started collecting and playing GW games at the age of 12.

Corrode
17-02-2010, 19:49
I don't think the stores have particularly changed - you've just gotten older. Sure, ten years ago they might have seemed like a 'social meeting place', but you yourself were also ten years younger. The stores aren't meant to be a focal point for the community - they're recruitment centres to get people enticed, have them visit for a year or so as they learn the ropes, and then hopefully have those people join gaming clubs and move on elsewhere.

As for age-gaps, I'm 20 and in the last year have played against a kid as young as 11 as well as people in their 50s. Typically the people I play with range from 20-40, mostly people at a club - I find that people tend to drift towards clubs with suit their own temperaments, so a lot of the 'nothing in common but the game' problems are absolved in that situation. That said, even though 20 years separates me from the older blokes compared to maybe 5-10 years from the younger ones, I'd pick the older chaps every time - partly because I'm an old man at heart, and partly because there's much less chance of everything going pear-shaped because my opponent has a temper tantrum.

CraftworldsRus
17-02-2010, 20:51
Heh, I have such problems with people judging me when I game with my two younger brothers, I'm 23, my brothers are 13 and 10. I've even had a "concerned parent" start in on me and threaten to call the police when I walked out with my brothers to grab some lunch, saying a "Man my age has no business taking those kids anywhere". Whats worse is my brothers and I LOOK like family.

Cuchulain84
17-02-2010, 21:30
I play because it's a good social hobby. I have no interest in socialising with children, not because I think i'm better than them but because they are children and I am an adult. I'm not in this to encourage or teach future generations, i'm just in it because I enjoy it. In fact I would go as far as to say I don't want to play with anyone, regardless of age, whose company I wouldn't enjoy outside of the hobby. But then I don't hang around in GWs looking for games I just play with friends or friends of friends.

e2055261
18-02-2010, 00:07
It's not really been an issue for me since I have never really played against youngsters. I tend to play amongst my mates; we've been doing this now for 15plus years.

The main issue at stake for me is the creepy factor. You simply can't be too careful these days. Allegations true or otherwise are all too easily flung about.

sic
18-02-2010, 00:42
Im with Cuchulain84 on this one.

A big part of the game for me is the social interaction I get when I play a game with my mates. Theres beer and chat as well as war (because in the present there isnt only war) and drinking with a 14 year old could get me in a fair amount of trouble i think.....

scarletsquig
18-02-2010, 03:03
Heh, I have such problems with people judging me when I game with my two younger brothers, I'm 23, my brothers are 13 and 10. I've even had a "concerned parent" start in on me and threaten to call the police when I walked out with my brothers to grab some lunch, saying a "Man my age has no business taking those kids anywhere". Whats worse is my brothers and I LOOK like family.

Gah, yeah, people like that are annoying. They've read so many paranoid newspaper articles about pedos that they see them everywhere they go.

I have a friend who has to put up with ****** like that whenever he takes his little sister out somewhere (they have a single mum who works very long hours).

I happily played games against 40 year olds when I was 12, no problem at all. Maturity matters more than age.

outbreak
18-02-2010, 04:10
The club/store i frequent is mainly adults (18+). The kids who come in usually just stick to playing each other and we'll leave them be unless they ask for help with something. The club doesn't see that many kids though and is a pretty adult environment (usually abit of language and inappropriate jokes going around between those of us regulars but we tone it down when kids turn up). On 40k nights though there seems to be quite afew younger kids who show up (high school age) I don't play 40k but i'd play high school kids i guess, was pretty funny as one kid i was talking to on a painting day (he was about 16 i think) went to a school i used to work at as an I.T tech.

I'm 22 and most of the guys i play are in their 20s and 30s. I think once you hit around 20 socializing with people 10-15yrs older becomes a non issue and i find people who are actually into similar things as me (i'm a fan of older music ranging from 50s-80's)

snurl
18-02-2010, 09:05
I have played games against my friends kids, and his wife, but somehow I feel bad when I win the game. I would rather stick to age 18 plus.

Duke Georgal
18-02-2010, 10:27
I think this is a big one; the losers in life who think the only way they can be king of the world is to be the BIG WINNAZ OF WARHAMMAZ!!!

These guys are always the first to want to play with the new kid, but probably the last who should.


I think you need some more granularity.

Categories:
12 and under
13 to 17
18 to 23
24 to 35
35 to 45
45+

Why am I always in the "and +" catagory now? I am so old.


They were even advised that they should not be at the store if they were not taking part in a battle.

It is good business to keep creepy adults from hanging around. Parents of kids get nervous about adults who hang around a kids venue.

Condottiere
18-02-2010, 10:33
It's interesting that I don't recall that age discrimination when playing chess.

seraphius
18-02-2010, 11:39
I believe that many gamers - mainly veterans - believe that there is something of a rift between the older more established gamers and the younger newer gamers. I think the rift is more to do with age than length of service and that a new gamer who is older can find ready acceptance with other older gamers than a younger gamer can.

To give some context, I would consider 12-14 and under to be younger gamers and 15+ to be older gamers. There is something of a transitional area between about 15 and 18 I think, but that's just so you know where I'm coming from.

Is this rift a case of differing attitudes to the games between older and younger gamers, a difference in perceved maturity, or is it because the producers of our beloved games seem to be geared towards the next generation of gamers rather than the fan base as a whole?

Have you experienced the effects of this situation, either as a younger or older gamer, and is there smething that can be done to close the rift - or at least build a bridge across it?

I am turnig 32 tis year.

Been doing this for the better part of this decade ++ and i have never had issues with younger or older players.

The beauty of what we do is that regardless of age there is a common thing we can discuss.

rules,fluff, minis etc etc , in this there is somehting every gamer/painter find something to talk about regardless of age or race they play or paint because everyone has their take on someting.

Personally i love chatting upp the younger players and "neewbies" as i feel i can offer them some insight to what we dom why we do it and maybe some help along the way.

I play games vs the same people and in all ages.

I do tend to be a bit nicer to the new kinds and young once, but i still play my game the way i would vs the veterans in a tourney.

Col. Frost
18-02-2010, 13:55
Im in my mid thirties and i have been involved in the hobby in one form or another since the early 1980's. I have to say that i have no issues with playing with someone based solely on their age although maturity counts for a lot (and i have met some very immature gamers in my time, regardless of age).

sliganian
18-02-2010, 13:56
[QUOTE=Duke Georgal;4406659]

[color="gold"]Why am I always in the "and +" catagory now? I am so old.
QUOTE]

I was once most annoyed with a telephone survey taker who spent 5 minutes getting my opinions then when I said my age she said 'Oh, we are looking for the 18-34 age bracket". The funny part was that I was 35 at the time yet suddenly my opinions were confined to dusty history and tying onions on my belt. :D

DeeKay
18-02-2010, 14:03
Hmm. An interesting point.

My initial thoughts would be that age isn't a problem, but mentality and maturity are. Obviously there are other issues such as the worry over child abuse (that was never an issue when I was a kid.)

Games against younger players should be seen as teaching experiences. After all, the chances are that they haven't got as fine a grasp on the rules as you and would like to know more. Having said that, I have been soundly thrashed by some kids simply by underestimating them. That isn't as embarrasing as you might think.

With regards,
Dan.

Etienne de Beaugard
19-02-2010, 13:48
The age gap is not a condition of GW games but rather a condition of life. My other hobby, SCA Medieval Reenacment shows similar dynamics. People attending reenacment events range from 5 to 75 and social circles tend to break along age groups. When older and younger people interact, it is often in a teacher-student relationship.

gwarsh41
19-02-2010, 14:43
I have to agree with everyone who has already stated the creepy factor. Not that I am old enough to be creepy, I just don't really want to hang out with kids. My pals and I usually drink when we game, so that's another reason.
I did play against a new guy who seemed to be about 14-15 at the last tourney. He had some trouble with some rules and was very open to being helped out. which is something I rarely see when playing anyone my age or higher.

Veag
19-02-2010, 15:03
I usually prefer playing older gamers. In my experience, younger gamers are more likely to not know their rules, more likely to get bored half way through a game, and more likely to get upset when they lose. That said, I know a quite a few older gamers who would rather complain about how the game has changed than actually play. ;)

gwarsh41
19-02-2010, 16:46
I usually prefer playing older gamers. In my experience, younger gamers are more likely to not know their rules, more likely to get bored half way through a game, and more likely to get upset when they lose. That said, I know a quite a few older gamers who would rather complain about how the game has changed than actually play. ;)

I get the complainers more than not. I have had a few who take forever to make the move. 1 hour game, 850pt. 2 turns. I dont ever want to play him again.

sliganian
19-02-2010, 21:14
I usually prefer playing older gamers. In my experience, younger gamers are more likely to not know their rules, more likely to get bored half way through a game, and more likely to get upset when they lose. That said, I know a quite a few older gamers who would rather complain about how the game has changed than actually play. ;)

Gah! I had that happen at an informal tournament (at a guy's house) in the fall. Now, I am not young but neither am I a frosty haired older gamer (currently in my very late 30's). Normally, playing older guys is a treat.

But in game two at this tourney, I had to listen to a litany of gripes and b*tching stemming back from the dark ages of 40K to the present from a guy who was probably in his mid-late 50's.

At the end of the game it was all I could do not to shout "Things change you old fool! I figured an old guy would know that better than most. GET OVER IT!" :mad:

Tip for the Wise: when playing an 'old guy' try avoid any topic that might be a launchpad for a trip down nostalgia river. :cries:

leadlair
20-02-2010, 20:11
Maturity matters more than age.

Of course it does but most 12 year olds are not mature and taking the time to find the rare gem of younger player who is mature and conversant in more things then just gaming is very hard.

Add on to that that it is very creepy for an older person to hang out with younger kids and you have a good idea why most older players do not want to play with younger players.

Personally I would have no problem playing with 17+ but younger then that and I would really not be interested in playing with them unless I knew them VERY well and their parents were there.

leadlair
20-02-2010, 20:13
It's interesting that I don't recall that age discrimination when playing chess.

I would imagine because chess seems to be a much less social event. Well to me anyway and of course often much more organized as well. When I played chess there were all kinds of ages but not much interaction between players as compared to a warhammer game.

e2055261
21-02-2010, 02:06
I would imagine because chess seems to be a much less social event. Well to me anyway and of course often much more organized as well. When I played chess there were all kinds of ages but not much interaction between players as compared to a warhammer game.

Agreed. That analogy doesn't really stretch that far.

OP: depends on the person really. I tend to avoid young players but that's just me. Some people have endless enthusiasm and are happy to spend time with beginner players; which is fine. I mean I'd probably put children off the game anyway because I'm such a miserable old git...

Demrush
21-02-2010, 02:37
Gah, yeah, people like that are annoying. They've read so many paranoid newspaper articles about pedos that they see them everywhere they go.

I have a friend who has to put up with ****** like that whenever he takes his little sister out somewhere (they have a single mum who works very long hours).

I happily played games against 40 year olds when I was 12, no problem at all. Maturity matters more than age.

Hmm...I know where you are coming from on this one but I also understand why some people might react this way. I'd rather have people calling out on potential pedos/kidnappers than dismiss them without at least a second thought.

However, sometimes it is very obvious and I've had people look at me in a weird way when I used to bring my sister to school...When you're in that unfortunate age rage where you're probably too young to have a 10 year old kid but at the same time, you're not old enough to be their parent...Haha!

As for putting up with younger kids in Warhammer? I'm perfectly fine with that, so long as the teenager is no younger than 14. I find the maturity gap is too high in instances where the kid is 10-13...And thus, I simply don't find it exciting/challenging or even fun to play any real matches versus this age group. However, if they ever need help while playing or painting, I'll definitely not hesitate.

Agnar the Howler
21-02-2010, 03:01
I'll play anyone who has a good grasp of the rules, the codex/army book, their own rulebook (not necessary but I prefer to not hand my hardback rulebook over the table to some clusmy guy who'll make a half-arsed grasp at it, miss or mis-judge the weight and drop it on my models) and the models. However, that isn't the way for people playing me. I'm usually belittled by the older gamers (in spite of my greater knowledge at some points) and my opinions and statements are disregarded.

Trouble is that younger gamers tend to avoid me because i'm not that laid back when it comes to sticking to the rules. If something is wrong and I know it then i'll say and make them change it, and they don't like it most of the time. At Veterans nights i'm ignored and when i'm around younger gamers i'm ignored unless asked a rules question, and even then they'll listen to half of it and go and ask someone else.

The only games I get are with 3 people, 1 who has largely quit the gaming aspect, 1 who has started to cheat and 1 who is unreliable. To be honest, it's getting to the point where i'm thinking of packing the hobby in; there's no point in shelling out for armies that won't see the table.

scarletsquig
21-02-2010, 03:22
Or you could find a different gaming scene... there are some people who only go to tournaments.

Different clubs have different atmospheres too. GW vet nights are more for the casual hobbyist and a general joke-around.. I personally prefer the kind of environment where I can say "hey, mind if we play a game with a dozen catachan lesser barking toads on the table?" and the other person is fine with that because it sounds like a bit of a laugh.

Have a look beyond the GW store anyway, most towns have quite a few small wargames clubs.

Agnar the Howler
21-02-2010, 03:33
Or you could find a different gaming scene... there are some people who only go to tournaments.

Different clubs have different atmospheres too. GW vet nights are more for the casual hobbyist and a general joke-around.. I personally prefer the kind of environment where I can say "hey, mind if we play a game with a dozen catachan lesser barking toads on the table?" and the other person is fine with that because it sounds like a bit of a laugh.

Have a look beyond the GW store anyway, most towns have quite a few small wargames clubs.

The only other wargaming club is too far out of my way until they find a relocation spot for the store they moved. There aren't any more clubs I know of in my general area, bearing in mind that my travel is quite restricted.

MarcoSkoll
21-02-2010, 14:20
I think it very much depends on circumstances.

I was at an Inquisitor event back in December, and the players there ranged from teenagers to those in various stages of their thirties (I myself am 21). There were no issues at all - most of the time it didn't even cross my mind.

Admittedly, I already knew the vast majority of the people I was playing with via a forum (where of course, age is largely forgotten), but it illustrates that it's possible for a gaming community to incorporate people from different decades of their lives.


I think once you hit around 20 socializing with people 10-15yrs older becomes a non issue and i find people who are actually into similar things as me (i'm a fan of older music ranging from 50s-80's)
I'd agree on this note. Particularly on the music front - I've gained quite a lot of my parent's taste in music, so a large majority of my music collection is stuff from the 60s through to the 80s.

The question arises of whether the "age gap" is the same in both directions? That is, a 20 year old gamer might have no issues with playing a 30 year old gamer, but what about the other way around?

(Actually, being in your early twenties seems to be a good age, because then you're not too old to play most of the teenagers, but not too young to play the older gamers either.)

WinglessVT2
21-02-2010, 16:46
When I started playing for real, most of my actual opponents were in the 20+ category, and now those players are in their 30's or 40's.

Never played in a GW store, except when I was doing some outriding. It's true, however, that they're more geared towards the 12-16 crowd than older gamers, but sometimes you'll see dads and moms there, who have armies of their own. Mostly for events held in conjunction with local clubs.

I'll pick the player who knows her or his army when I want a challenge, and the younger players when I want to test out things. Age isn't something I think much about.

e2055261
21-02-2010, 23:21
It sure does depend on circumstance. I have a young family now and that tends to limit my gaming time in the first place; so I have to make the few games I get in as entertaining as possible. There's too much risk involved with pick up games with total strangers (young or old). By risk, I mean a disappointing game.

skullkandy
25-02-2010, 01:10
I think maturity and experience in life outside wargaming plays into it as well. I have played GW epic for many years with 4 close friends who are all my age (25), my uncle, my uncles best friend, and his wife who are all doctors in the age range of 32-36.

We all get along great and have lots of fun, but when I went to my local gaming store I just couldn't not click there. They all got along real well and weren't rude or bad people in the least, I just didn't click.

They seemed as if they had been really sheltered, had never been within 3 feet of a girl, and didn't have much real life experience. you know the typical stereotype of a nerd with underdeveloped social skills and ADD as a side effect to an above average intellect. I know this comes off as me being stuck up on my part but honestly that's not how I mean it. i'm a complete nerd myself but ive had a very social life of crazy partying.

This is what caused me to not click with the local gamers though. I just couldn't relate to them and them to me because we were so different. Not age wise but in how we interact in social situations.

So yes age does play a factor in my opinion but also life experiences. To me those guys seemed very immature, but to them i'm sure I came off as not serious and not a real nerd.

Eternus
01-03-2010, 16:39
Ok, lets try this from a slightly different angle - how young is too young to be playing Table Top Wargames of the level of complxity of Warhammer 40K and Fantasy Battle? If you had kids that were starting to show an interest in Daddy's (or Mummy's) toys, then how old would they have to be before you would consider trying to teach them to play?

Condottiere
01-03-2010, 17:58
Maturity arrives at different speeds.

It's easier with computer games, since the interaction is with a faceless electronics device. There are three aspects involved, comprehension of the rules, perspective of what's involved and the ability to interact with humans on the required level.

WinglessVT2
03-03-2010, 13:06
It's not so much 'faceless' these days.
Try playing modern games over xbox live, and you'll see what I mean. Muting team-whine and general voicechat is almost mandatory, and some servers should simply be avoided at all costs.

sliganian
03-03-2010, 14:24
It's not so much 'faceless' these days.
Try playing modern games over xbox live, and you'll see what I mean. Muting team-whine and general voicechat is almost mandatory, and some servers should simply be avoided at all costs.

Must be my age, but I have next to no interest in any sort of computer 'team' play. When I play on a computer, I want to play against a computer. Man vs. Machine was a big deal back in the foggy mists of PC gaming.

When I want to play people, I'll use minis or board games.

e2055261
05-03-2010, 10:18
Looking at the warnings on the GW packaging, you can be 36 months old to play safely! Just have to get my three year old to talk better and we're away...

Condottiere
05-03-2010, 13:54
He can scream "WAAAAAAAGH!", can't he?

ashc
05-03-2010, 14:00
He can scream "WAAAAAAAGH!", can't he?

Every child is born an Orc(k) player.

Osbad
05-03-2010, 14:22
Ok, lets try this from a slightly different angle - how young is too young to be playing Table Top Wargames of the level of complxity of Warhammer 40K and Fantasy Battle? If you had kids that were starting to show an interest in Daddy's (or Mummy's) toys, then how old would they have to be before you would consider trying to teach them to play?

My lad was 7 when I took the attached picture and at the age of 9 he's a grizzled veteran of LotR!

My younger lad who's only just turned 7 last month though hasn't been so quick on the uptake with the rules, even though his reading is streets ahead of his brother's at the same age.

We're playing 40k together now, and while both of them are enjoying it, they haven't really got the rules off yet though. They are less "intuitive" than LotR and with all the extra special rules in the codices and stuff like vehicles and buildings to contend with, I'm not surprised!

I'd say 9 or 10 depending on reading and maths ability is probably a reasonable age for most kids to be starting to play 40k unaccompanied. I'd say older for WFB and younger for LotR. Generally the more abstract and less WYSIWYG the mechanics, the older you have to be to appreciate them.

Having said that, many kids have a brilliant memory for detail. My lad had all the model stats memorised from LotR in a couple of days!

Jagged
05-03-2010, 15:48
Ok, lets try this from a slightly different angle - how young is too young to be playing Table Top Wargames of the level of complxity of Warhammer 40K and Fantasy Battle? If you had kids that were starting to show an interest in Daddy's (or Mummy's) toys, then how old would they have to be before you would consider trying to teach them to play?

My son started nagging me at 7 and I gave in shortly after. He is 9 now and plays a decent game. More importantly he doesn't sulk or have strops which is more than can be said for some adults I've seen :D

However I would add that I did not teach him anything other than the odd run through. You local GW is very good at teaching little scrotes how to play so I took my son to their Sunday morning training sessions. Well recommended.

GW prefers them older, since they recommend 12 minimum and in the UK they have rules about leaving them in the shop. Obviously my son is too young to be left on his own. I enjoy watching him play so thats not an issue :D

e2055261
07-03-2010, 11:10
Yeah they have a rule like that here in Australia too. One GW bloke told me how he had to get security to locate a child's parent. The kid had been left there as if GW were free daycare.

duffybear1988
10-03-2010, 04:02
I find that the best way to deal with younger people is to 'tone down' your game a bit. Im not old myself (im almost 22) but I tend to have an older persons mindset.

I usually play competatively when im at my local club (as I have a reputation to protect and all that), but I find that when I play younger kids I cant help but cut them some slack and give advice because when I was a newbie 11 years ago nobody really helped me out and I was left to learn pretty much on my own.

So I guess I really have 3 modes of play -

1) younger kids - offer advice, cut them some slack, maybe bend the rules in their favour or ignore somethng particularly nitpicky.

2) tournament/club play - win at all cost, cheese lists, be harsh etc etc.

3) friendlies with the mates over beer and a pizza - just have a laugh, maybe allow re-rolls that kind of thing, all for fun.

I mostly find myself falling into the number 3 category these days as im sick of tournament play as I dont get to use half the stuff I have as it isnt useful enough in games.


Anyway thats just me.


Edit: although this one time I played this 15 year old know-it-all who was really cheesing me off, and it didnt help that his mate was their picking faults with everything I did, even when I won he was picking faults with me instead of his mate who lost, the dude I had been playing packed his stuff up and refused to shake my hand and then stormed off... I really cant stand people like that, the game is supposed to be fun, I guess sometimes these younger kids think winning is all that counts. I never saw that kid or his friend at club again so I guess he gave up.

burad
10-03-2010, 04:19
I wish we had 'vet nights' at the local GW store. I'd enjoy playing more with people who have played lots of miniatures wargames besides just 40k and/or WHFB. It gives them a little different perspective.

Fruhauf
12-03-2010, 14:00
A very interesting thread!

It appeals to me too because I've just started WHFB and I am 18. I purchased my first unit of WoC about 15 days ago, so I mean I've really really just started.

I went to my local GW store last weekend with the hope that I could learn how to play, however, when I arrived there was about 10 people in the shop. Of the 10 there, 2 were staff (one was about 25, and acted like a kid but very enthusiastic to a degree of almost creepiness... the other was about 40 but very level headed and I managed to get some conversation out of him) and of the other 8, about 6 were aged between 9-12 and the other 2 were parents. I felt out of place completely, I did not want to learn with the crazy kids who were almost more interested in resolving the combat by pushing the models into each other and the GW assistants almost looked at me as if I was a noob for not knowing the rules at 18.

So now i'm stuck in a dilemma, as it is I am the only person I know of in my town who plays WHFB (it's not a big town) as the people my age are more into drugs and drinking. Whilst i'm not against going out and having fun at a nightclub or whatever, these guys are doing it every night (and I care about my school studies too). So if I want to learn how to play WHFB, I either have to locate a club near to me (which I have tried and failed so far) or go back to the GW store where I felt rather out of place.

ICLRK625
12-03-2010, 15:19
A very interesting thread!

It appeals to me too because I've just started WHFB and I am 18. I purchased my first unit of WoC about 15 days ago, so I mean I've really really just started.

I went to my local GW store last weekend with the hope that I could learn how to play, however, when I arrived there was about 10 people in the shop. Of the 10 there, 2 were staff (one was about 25, and acted like a kid but very enthusiastic to a degree of almost creepiness... the other was about 40 but very level headed and I managed to get some conversation out of him) and of the other 8, about 6 were aged between 9-12 and the other 2 were parents. I felt out of place completely, I did not want to learn with the crazy kids who were almost more interested in resolving the combat by pushing the models into each other and the GW assistants almost looked at me as if I was a noob for not knowing the rules at 18.

So now i'm stuck in a dilemma, as it is I am the only person I know of in my town who plays WHFB (it's not a big town) as the people my age are more into drugs and drinking. Whilst i'm not against going out and having fun at a nightclub or whatever, these guys are doing it every night (and I care about my school studies too). So if I want to learn how to play WHFB, I either have to locate a club near to me (which I have tried and failed so far) or go back to the GW store where I felt rather out of place.

That's a pretty typical experience at Games Workshop in the US too. Your best bet is, assuming you can't find a club, to see if the Games Workshop has a veterans night of some sort, or go very early on a weekday, when the kids are in school, and try to get with the staff members about it.

There's bound to be somebody who can help you, be it a staff member, a veteran of the game at the store, or perhaps even somebody on Warseer if they live around you.

Fruhauf
12-03-2010, 17:18
I see, well thanks for the tip, I've got in touch with my local club so hopefully the environment there is more to my suiting.

SandQueen
15-03-2010, 11:10
Im in my mid twenties and started three months ago.

So......what does that mean?

I guess it has almost as much to do with social environment as it does anything else. My husband plays all through highschool and for years after but his highschool had a "geek club" for Warhammer, Dungeons and Dragons, and other games. Mine didnt and I was never interested in just things anyway. Now though with both of our schedules at a premium we use gaming to spend more time together.

and because I think Eldar models are pretty and I can finally express my dislike of his ugly IG tanks through furious dice rolling.

Fruhauf
15-03-2010, 13:02
Haha, well that sounds ideal for you, you have someone you have a massive bond with that you can play alongside :)