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carldooley
20-02-2010, 07:03
What would you do to improve your favorite character?

for instance -

double the points of the Doom of Malan'tai for:
1. variable toughness = str = wounds
2. ability to choose when Spirit Leech happens (beginning or end of Shooting Phase)

Tenken
20-02-2010, 07:07
Wazdakka Gutsmek

Improve str to 5 base
All bikers in the same unit as Wazdakka may shoot even after they've turbo boosted.
Cybork body (or equivalent invul save mechanic)
Allow either biker or nobz on bikes as troops.

Bonzai
20-02-2010, 08:32
My necron lord. I would love to have the option of taking a wraith body (granting the ability to move through terrain, and a 3+inv save). Secondly I would love to get a dual bladed warscythe (counting as 2 close combat weapons).

Pink Horror
20-02-2010, 08:51
Abaddon: take chaos terminators as troops

FlashGordon
20-02-2010, 08:53
Abbaddon; Planet Killer, even if you loose you win.

Filthy O'Bedlam
20-02-2010, 09:00
Kharn: Give Him Eternal Warrior. Honestly, is there a better example of an Eternal Warrior than Kharn other than things like the Avatar? Not For Me, anyway.

Freman Bloodglaive
20-02-2010, 09:01
Marneus Calgar
Avatar bane, Calgar always hits and wounds Avatars on a 2+. Any wound inflicted causes instant death.

FlashGordon
20-02-2010, 09:07
Avatar: Fanboi, The Avatar has a smal fanboi it can sacrafice against attacks made by Marneus Calgar ignoring one instantdeath for every fanboi.

morwa
20-02-2010, 09:16
Kharn: Give Him Eternal Warrior. Honestly, is there a better example of an Eternal Warrior than Kharn other than things like the Avatar? Not For Me, anyway.

I liked that piece of fluff... Too bad they don't represent it anymore.

ColonalKlink
20-02-2010, 09:22
this is a serious one :)

Captain Cortez

WS BS S T W I A LD SV points:200
5 4 4 4 3 5 4 10 3+/3++
Wargear: MC Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Frag/Krak Grenades
Special rules: (as captain in C:SM) Eternal Warrior, Immortal (3+ Invunerable) Rage
Inspiring presence (as kantors +1 attack in 12", not in addition with kantors I.E, no +2 attacks with both in 12")

Plague.Monk
20-02-2010, 09:33
Making Lucius little soul possession fluff into an ability, maybe a roll upon defeat for units within base contact. Make the whip do something a bit cooler.

The Ginger Ninja
20-02-2010, 09:57
Necron lord
Allow its warscythe to have some form of shooting attack, even if you put another 15 points on top of the 'scythes cost
Give him 5 WS instead of what he currently has

Awilla the Hun
20-02-2010, 10:24
Commandr Chenkov

The enemy is at our gates! To arms, to arms! (Special Rule): Select one unit of infantry (merged platoons included) in your army. This unit has half its lasguns (rounding up) removed, and may not take any special or heavy weapons. (Apart from for Sergeants and Commissars.) However, this unit is also fearless, and has furious charge, counter attack, and feel no pain to represent its supreme patriotic valour. It counts as being dead at the end of the game for objective holding/killpoints purposes.

bigcheese76
20-02-2010, 11:55
Commissar Yarrick.

Very simply, give him his old rules set back and his old points cost. So much more like Yarrick.

Askari
20-02-2010, 12:08
Ahriman of the Thousand Sons;

Has every psychic power in the game, including those from Codex: CSM, SM, SW, DA, BA, DH, WH, Tyranids, Orks and Eldar.
May also fire up to 3 shooting powers per turn, and has We Are Legion from Codex: Daemons.

Put his points up if you must; as it is he sucks though.

Same applies to the Blue Scribes.

Lord Cook
20-02-2010, 12:40
If I have seen a thread more vulnerable to rampant fanboy-ism, I can't remember it. :rolleyes:

Mojaco
20-02-2010, 13:37
Ahriman of the Thousand Sons;

Has every psychic power in the game, including those from Codex: CSM, SM, SW, DA, BA, DH, WH, Tyranids, Orks and Eldar.
May also fire up to 3 shooting powers per turn, and has We Are Legion from Codex: Daemons.

Put his points up if you must; as it is he sucks though.

Same applies to the Blue Scribes.
This. With a -1Ld to non-chaos powers or something. He knows all powers, but doesn't master them all. Ofcourse this will never happen, but he needs more powah!

Other than that I only use Iron Hand Straken as a count-as Redeemer, and he is 99% perfect as he is. No change needed, but if I could choose I'd make him toughness 4 instead of 3 and change the 3+ save to a 5+ save. And drop the shotgun. And make his attacks strike at ini 1. Now he's the Redeemer 100%.

As for character I don't use but feel should change;
I think Vulkan should have a 3+ base save. 2+ and 3++ is OP.

I'd remove Njal from the game :) Not really, but I'd reduce the range of all his bonuses and powers. And the 3+ nullifier for enemy powers is a joke, banish it.

Doom of Malan-tai may not drop-pod.

I can't think of other character that are too powerful really.

krillbur
20-02-2010, 13:38
Commissar Yarrick

lower points please. Costs as much as a kitted demolisher darn it!

Giganthrax
20-02-2010, 14:20
Give eternal warrior to Vulkan He'Stan. I mean, he already has every other upgrade possible (and more!) so why not just add eternal warrior and be done with it! :D





Seriously though, Typhus and Ragnar need eternal warrior, considering how expensive they are.

Pedro Cantor needs a better gear loadout. A weapon that strikes on initiative and 2+ armor would be nice. Eternal warrior would be best.

Marneus Calgar could also do with a price decrease. He doesn't add enough for 265 pts, tbh.

Lord Cook
20-02-2010, 14:39
Iron Hand Straken... I'd make him toughness 4 instead of 3

Stracken is already T4.

Mojaco
20-02-2010, 15:39
Stracken is already T4.

He's so awesome :D

keroro623
20-02-2010, 16:45
Make Angor Prok A legal Character :shifty:

Corrode
20-02-2010, 16:50
Pedro Cantor needs a better gear loadout. A weapon that strikes on initiative and 2+ armor would be nice. Eternal warrior would be best.

But how can I tell my opponent that Pedro is fisting his HQ if he doesn't have a power fist? Clawing or relic blading isn't nearly as funny.

tuebor
20-02-2010, 17:24
I'd make Bastonne cost just a little bit less. I really like the character and I think having an NCO special character fits the Cadians quite well as being a competent, professional army and is a nice contrast with Chenkov who represents the officer driven, conscript horde type army but Bastonne costs almost as much as the base squad he comes with.

Hoodwink
20-02-2010, 17:29
Necron Lord:
Each model that loses its last wound to a Necron Lord in CC is replaced by a Necron Warrior with no chance to regenerate by any means. This increases army count for calculating WBB.

Askari
20-02-2010, 17:33
Necrons can turn enemies into Necrons? That would make Left for Dead a much harder game if the Zombies had Gauss Blasters...

Cromwell Haarlock-Leth
20-02-2010, 17:43
Wazdakka Gutsmek
Allow either biker or nobz on bikes as troops.

Ugh? He already has this rule: ALL (non-nobz) bikers units you take ARE troops if you take Wazdakka as HQ.

Snikrot: have its special weapons up-graded as power weapons.;)

Makari: just having him back...:angel:

enterprise85
20-02-2010, 17:49
eldrad with fill no pain

DeadlySquirrel
20-02-2010, 20:13
temperus maximus: make him an actual character

ColonalKlink
20-02-2010, 21:24
temperus maximus: make him an actual character

oh hell yeah

marv335
20-02-2010, 21:30
Mad Doc Grotsnik.
T5 please.

Also a Nob upgrade for a deffcopta unit.

Leogun_91
20-02-2010, 22:07
Something to represent how extremely horrifying greater daemons are, like -1ld to enemies within 6 (cumulative to -2 if they are unlucky enough to meet two of them)

DuskRaider
20-02-2010, 22:31
Boss Snikrot:

Give him STR 5 w/ Dual Power Weapons (+1 A)
Give him a 5+ Invulnerable Save (not Cybork, he's just really sneaky and elusive)
Allow him to give his unit Hit and Run

I can deal with him having a 6+ armor save. I can deal with the fact that I'm paying more then a Warboss for Move Through Cover, the ability to pop up on any table edge (which later in a game mayt be useless) and re-rolls on Attack. I simply cannot accept the fact that he's so easy to kill and doesn't even have a PW, especially given his background. I think I would've made him a 150 pt character as an HQ that allows you to take Kommandos as Troops as well.

puppetmaster24
20-02-2010, 23:12
Avatar= Eternal warrior.
The Nightbringer= Eternal warrior.
The Deceiver= Eternal warrior.

Sygerrik
21-02-2010, 03:21
Snikrot should have rending, not PWs. He's really, really, good as it is.
Ghazghkull should have more Attacks. Yes, I said it.

Eldrad should have T2 since he is, after all, the 40k universe's Teclis.
Abaddon should have been transformed into a Chaos Spawn for his repeated failure to kill a bunch of humans with practically all of the extant Chaos Legions and a horde of Daemons at his disposal.

GrimZAG
21-02-2010, 07:01
Marneus Calgar - Toughness 5 ;)

and a strength 4 autarch.

Redscare
21-02-2010, 08:17
Marbo

Envenomed POWER blade. :eek:

Besides that, not much more fanboism from me.

Motsognir
21-02-2010, 11:24
make the deamonhunters grey knight heros WS 6 like all those sm captains,...

bocaj
21-02-2010, 15:19
Nightbringer 180 pts, Deepstrike and necron :D too cheesy? Meh
Serious one Skull taker a bit cheeper

Hoodwink
21-02-2010, 15:24
Carnifex 20 points cheaper? :P

Carlos
21-02-2010, 15:51
Abaddon: Immunity to wounds from Drach'nyen rolling a 1 in the assault phase. He is supposed to have mastered it! Terminators and Vets as troops choices.

Phoenix Lords: All have invulnerable saves of 4+, Battlefate on Asurmen means he always counts as being under the influence of 'Fortune' (with appropriate pts cost) and additional warrior powers are carried over to aspect squads (e.g: Jain Zar gives banshees furious charge) and they count their aspect as a troops choice (but NOT scoring) as more followers come from the webway.

Colonel-Commisar Ibram Gaunt 120pts
5/4/3/3/3/4/3/10
Bolt pistol, Sword of Heironymo, Camo Cloak, Carapace Armour
Special:
Gaunt's Ghosts: Provided you have no other HQ choices all your Vet squads get 'Forward Sentries' for free
To the mouth of hell...: Gaunt has the 'feel no pain' USR
Sword of Heironymo: +1S Power weapon that grants 'furious charge' to any vet units gaunt has joined.

Blizzinam
21-02-2010, 16:02
Remove Sicarius option for instant death attack, change his ability so not one but all your tactical squads benefit.

Hoodwink
21-02-2010, 16:21
Old One Eye needs some serious help for the points cost. Lower his cost or give him a 3++. He could easily die to fire on the first turn and there goes a chunk of your points. Incredibly fun to use when you get to CC, but incredibly hard to get him there. No fleet, no invul save, incredibly high points. Meh.

If he is supposedly so hard to kill, he really needs an invul save with his regen. He already has no range as it is.

davion
21-02-2010, 18:12
Decrease the combat stats to the Farseer but give them even more potent psychics. These guys spend their days in meditation not combat training:
WS: 2-3
BS: 2-3

The warlocks are the embodiment of psychic power combined with martial cc skills. Make warlocks an aspect --giving them a warlock master(exarch). A slight nod to the 2nd edition hierarchy.

Philhelm
21-02-2010, 21:39
Nazdreg Ug Urdgrub: Bring him back.

I also second the call for Makari to return.

WinglessVT2
21-02-2010, 21:55
Shadowsun.

Death by swarmlord.

jason_sation
21-02-2010, 22:06
Col. Schaeffer bring him back as before and give him this rule!: - Dirty Dozen- Col. Schaeffer may select a unit of 12 Guardsmen armed however they see fit for appropriate costs. Each Guardsmen and Col. Schaeffer acts as an Independent Characters. If 3 or more members of the Dirty Dozen are in a unit together, they may hold and contest objectives as a troop choice. All troops have deep strike and infiltrate.

Bunnahabhain
21-02-2010, 22:34
No Eternal warrior for any creature of any size at all, unless a significant part of it resides out side the normal physical realm. If it's too squishy as is, give it +1 T, much more fitting for something so tough it can shrug off Railguns etc.

Or it is a guard heavy weapon team, or similar multiple guys count as one models. So what if you just lascannoned one of them, the other guy is fine....

As for Improving a character. Nork, the Ogryn bodyguard. Lower points to a sane level, and give an exception to the majority toughness rules that make him the Galaxies only T3 Ogryn....

Frep
21-02-2010, 22:40
Not really a favorite of mine, but give typhus immortal warrior, or give him toughness 5 not 4(5). The number of times I've killed him with krak missle is ridiculous, he always seems to fail that one save and gets popped like a big nurgly pimple.

Oh and something needs done about Belial, basic SM captain stats at the very least please. Maybe make sword of Silence act as a Master-Crafted power weapon with +1 strength.

Parad0x
22-02-2010, 01:39
Kharn I'd like to get Ethernal warrior, first and foremost, same with Typhus. I really liked Kharn's old fluff.
Give Necron lord... well, anything new, quite a few ideas spring to mind!
Celestine also should have a major boost.. since she's quite an old character, but has really good fluff.
Those are off the top of my head, there are a couple more I can't recall right now...

Oh, and people, just a reminder, this thread's about IMPROVING your FAVORITE character, you talk about the opposite - how you'd nerf down Marneus, and such. Personally, I'd decimate the Marines and Wolves codex, but a complete overview would take me hours to write.:rolleyes:

MadDoc
22-02-2010, 01:42
Supreme Grand Master Azreal...
WS 6, add Orbital Bombardment, add a special rule representing the effect of his Leadership on the army under him (maybe Stubborn for all non-Fearless units in an army led by him (in addition to Rites of Battle)), and add the option for a Retinue/Honour Guard/Command Squad taken for him to include the Chapter Champion (seriously, Company Masters Command Squads get Company Champions but the Chapter Master can't bring the Chapter Champion along with him? :wtf:)...

Master Belial of the Deathwing...
WS6, add Iron Halo (he's a Company Master after all and Ultrasmurf's and their wannabes have one even when in Terminator armour) and give him a rule to actually reflects his character and history...

'Hero of Piscina'
Belial and any squad he joins have the Counter-attack special rule.

Master Sammael of the Ravenwing...
WS6 and perhaps a slight tweak to his rules (maybe make him an Indepedent Character)...

Grand Master Ezekiel...
Stats brought in line with C:SM (same goes for other DA Librarians while we're at it), is at least Epistolary equivalent (2 powers per turn), major rework of the DAs Psychic Powers, all of which Ezekiel knows in addition to a power unique to him (something actually representative of his ability to breach peoples minds and/or weaken their resolve).

I'm sure there are others, but that'll do for now I think... :angel:

Hellebore
22-02-2010, 01:52
No Eternal warrior for any creature of any size at all, unless a significant part of it resides out side the normal physical realm. If it's too squishy as is, give it +1 T, much more fitting for something so tough it can shrug off Railguns etc.

Or it is a guard heavy weapon team, or similar multiple guys count as one models. So what if you just lascannoned one of them, the other guy is fine....


I was going to post exactly the same thing, although not the +1T. Eternal Warrior is silly, except perhaps where the creature is not made of flesh. It's completely ridiculous that Marneus Calgar can bounce demolisher shells off his head.

A bloodthirster on the other hand doesn't really have a head to bounce it off.

They should just get rid of the 2W weapon team, dumb concept, dumb exection.

Hellebore

trigger
22-02-2010, 01:52
Logan Grimnar , Orbital Bombardment.

Bjor, I4 .... option for x2 CCW.

Iron Priest +1 wound and access to transport.

Mannimarco
22-02-2010, 01:53
abaddon: take termys as troops, dont care for chosen but termys are a must and gain the orbital bombardment rule

its not right that joe the space marine captain can get it and the big bad with the planet killer sitting in orbit cant even get one lance strike to come down?

and the obvious doesnt take a wound when rolling a 1

MadDoc
22-02-2010, 02:06
abaddon: take termys as troops, dont care for chosen but termys are a must and gain the orbital bombardment rule

its not right that joe the space marine captain can get it and the big bad with the planet killer sitting in orbit cant even get one lance strike to come down?

Not meaning to be picky but Space Marine Captains don't have the Orbital Bombardment special rule, only Chapter Masters have it.

While I appreciate your intent, your argument above is predicated on a flawed understanding.

That doesn't mean I think Abaddon shouldn't have the option of an Orbital Bombardment, just that your argument for it wasn't based in the facts. In truth I agree he probably should have an equivalent rule.

Don't take the above as me being a smartass, I was simply trying to let you know that Joe Schmoe the Space Marine Captain doesn't actually have the rule, Chapter Master Schmoe on the other hand, does.

Just trying to help, since an argument will always sound better if its based on provable/confirmed facts.

Sparowl
22-02-2010, 02:09
Lysander allows you to take Terminators as troops, and regains the old Teleporter Assault special rules. Or just regains teleporter assault rules. He's commander of the Imperial Fists first company (the only true Codex Astartes chapter, since Ultramarines moved away from it), and the Phalanx has more teleporter rooms then any other ship in the Imperium, and he doesn't use it?

How did he forget that?

Take away his fortifications if you wish, although it is fluffy.

Otherwise I'm fine with him.

Mannimarco
22-02-2010, 02:09
I stand corrected

this is me at 2am folks, making newbie mistakes

GrogDaTyrant
22-02-2010, 03:21
By no means my 'favorite' character. In fact, I despise him because of how terrible he is right now... But this is what I'd change:

Wazzdakka Gutzmek:
-Give him Cybork Body 5++.
-Make the Dakkacannon Twin-Linked.
Points could be adjusted to 190 or 200... But 180 for what you get is exceedingly overpriced right now.

Further, I'd make it so a Warboss on a Bike could allow either a unit of Nob Bikes as Troops, or would allow you to field units of Warbikes as Troops as well as Fast Attack. Wazzdakka should NOT be required to run a fluffy Evil Sunz bike army, or a themed KOS. Why he ended up being required is one of the things I hate about the current Ork dex.

Tenken
22-02-2010, 03:32
Oh yeah, give kaptain badruk a power weapon. For morks sake hes probably the richest ork in the galaxy, and he can't afford a power axe some loota found after a battle? Also allow him to allow his unit of flash gitz to buy power weapons at like 10 points or something, I don't know what a good cost for power weapons would be.

carldooley
22-02-2010, 04:45
Oh, and people, just a reminder, this thread's about IMPROVING your FAVORITE character, you talk about the opposite - how you'd nerf down Marneus, and such. Personally, I'd decimate the Marines and Wolves codex, but a complete overview would take me hours to write.:rolleyes:

actually I was interested in balanced improvements, like what you would like to see on your character, and then to state the additional number of points that you would be willing to pay for your improvements.

Mojaco
22-02-2010, 11:41
No Eternal warrior for any creature of any size at all
Yes, thank you! If it's just to counter hidden powerfists, then T5 would suffice. Force weapons, Wraithcannons and other such weapons should just work.

Sternguard777
22-02-2010, 12:04
All SM special characters w/out helmets may take a bucket for +1pts, catches all the blood guts and gore from when thier heads asplode from enemy fire cause they wouldn't wear a helmet.

Hypaspist
22-02-2010, 12:25
...
Further, I'd make it so a Warboss on a Bike could allow either a unit of Nob Bikes as Troops. *Snip*

This is already the case. A Warboss (no bike required, but you can give him one), allows a unit of Nobs to be taken as Troops. (Can give them bikes if you want).

neapolitan-guard
22-02-2010, 13:44
give the shadow captain a 2+ armour save, he's my favourite space marine character.

and give the phoenix lords an invulnerable save. it just makes sence.

x-esiv-4c
22-02-2010, 13:49
Every character in the game should have eternal warrior.

Grax
22-02-2010, 15:39
Mine's simple and straightforward: Mad Doc Grotznik, of the Orks, needs to be immune to instant death. I love the guy, but it's just too easy for my opponent to single out and kill him with powerfists, eliminating his unit's FNP and fearlessness.

Also, from the Chaos Daemons, the Masque needs something that can help her stay alive, as it's far too easy to single her out and shoot her to death. She needs something akin to a 2+ cover save, or the ability to join units.

Finally, with the rules for rending changed in 5th edition, Heralds of Khorne (and the Skulltaker) from Chaos Daemons need some sort of boost to make them worth taking. I'd either have all their attacks inflict instant death, give them a big strength bonus, and/or give them some sort of bonus when attacking vehicles.

Troah
22-02-2010, 17:20
Decapitator, Mandrake Champion, Dark Eldar.
Let him join a unit and let that unit hide with him.

kane40k
22-02-2010, 19:03
Chaos Lords....

GIVE US DEAMONIC GIFTS BACK!

:D

Oh and Deamon Princes Have the option of 2+ armour save or wings.... DAMND MISSILE LAUNCHERS!

sliganian
22-02-2010, 19:46
Ahriman:

- does not need to take Psychic Tests, assumed auto-pass (though he can be Psychic Hood'd) ala the old and proper Mark of Tzeentch

- give him a Psychic Hood or some kind of Defensive magic do-dad.

fluffstalker
22-02-2010, 20:17
Marneus Calgar:

Replace God of War with :

God of Mary Sue. You win. If an avatar is in the table, you falcon punch him and gain +100 awesome points.

Mojaco
23-02-2010, 11:12
Ahriman:

- does not need to take Psychic Tests, assumed auto-pass (though he can be Psychic Hood'd) ala the old and proper Mark of Tzeentch
Wouldn't be fair to stop Tyranid and Eldar anti-magic but still allow marine anti-magic. All or nothing imo.

sliganian
23-02-2010, 14:38
Wouldn't be fair to stop Tyranid and Eldar anti-magic but still allow marine anti-magic. All or nothing imo.

So taking Typhus vs. Nids and Eldar would be cheesey then? :rolleyes:

(Note for the unknowing: IIRC, Typhus has the 'auto-success' psychic ability in the current codex -- which is stupid IMO).

Mojaco
23-02-2010, 14:59
I didn't write that book, did I? No, I don't think that is fair. Either work as daemons work (abilities instead of psychic powers), or regular psychic powers. No auto-passing.

GrogDaTyrant
23-02-2010, 15:54
This is already the case. A Warboss (no bike required, but you can give him one), allows a unit of Nobs to be taken as Troops. (Can give them bikes if you want).

You missed the point. Wazzdakka should NOT be required to have Warbikes as Troops. A simple Warboss on a Bike should allow that, and it's more in theme/fluff for Evil Sunz or Bike-focused KOS. The idea I proposed, was making it so that a Warboss on Bike allowed for a single unit of Nobs as Troops OR for Warbikes to be allowed as Troops or Fast Attack.

Dyrnwyn
23-02-2010, 20:41
By no means my 'favorite' character. In fact, I despise him because of how terrible he is right now... But this is what I'd change:

Wazzdakka Gutzmek:
-Give him Cybork Body 5++.
-Make the Dakkacannon Twin-Linked.
Points could be adjusted to 190 or 200... But 180 for what you get is exceedingly overpriced right now.

Further, I'd make it so a Warboss on a Bike could allow either a unit of Nob Bikes as Troops, or would allow you to field units of Warbikes as Troops as well as Fast Attack. Wazzdakka should NOT be required to run a fluffy Evil Sunz bike army, or a themed KOS. Why he ended up being required is one of the things I hate about the current Ork dex.

I agree with the 5++ addition, give him a Cybork Body, or a 4++ for a personal forcefield built into his bike, but some kind of invuln. However, rather than make the Dakkacannon Twin-linked, I'd like to see a return to his previous specialty, and let him fire all his weapons, even when turboboosting. Then, well, the Dakkakannon might miss, but you still have a KMB, twin-linked dakkagunz and a slugga to fire.

senorcardgage
23-02-2010, 22:54
Okay, so as a disclaimer I don't know if all of this is entirely appropriate for this threat as some of it may be beyond the thread's scope, but you've already read this far so why turn back now? :)

I'd really like to see an end to cult units being troops without having an HQ with the same mark. This would automatically make the CSM characters more interesting and important than they are now.

I'd also like to see Ahirman be a much better psyker than he is now. I don't know exactly how to do it, but c'est la vie.