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Pink Horror
20-02-2010, 19:47
After reading so many threads with fluff I've never heard about, I'm really curious, how many people read the books? I love 40k as a game and a hobby, but I haven't yet wanted to read any extra background material. Maybe I will in the future - I'm sure some of the novels are entertaining enough. Anyway, now that Black Library has been around for awhile, can I find out if I am in the minority here? Or will a poll like this naturally be too biased to mean anything? :D

Ph4lanx
20-02-2010, 19:49
I own every 40k book out, and have preorders for every 40k book to come :) Yes, I am addicted to Black Library (but only 40k!) :)

Radium
20-02-2010, 19:51
Almost every 40k player I know reads at least some of the novels. Some read them almost religiously, while others only read books about their favourite chapter/legion/klan.

I find myself reading the books quite often, as I need something to read in the train, and BL stuff is light enough to read when you're still half asleep. And most of the books I've read so far are quite enjoyable to read.

bigcheese76
20-02-2010, 19:52
I havent read that many of them, but I would like to read more. Im currently reading Soul Drinkers and Im liking it so far.

Chiron
20-02-2010, 20:01
Sometimes but they are the equivalent of Mcdonalds for books, greasy and unpleasant and you feel soiled reading them but while your doing so they are terribly moreish

WinglessVT2
20-02-2010, 20:22
I've read most of the popular ones, all the 'popular' ones, and some that are surprisingly good, yet never achieve any kind of fame.

It's still just glorified fanfiction, with the authors possessing access to editors that they may or may not make use of.

Killgore
20-02-2010, 20:48
Its got to the stage for me where iv got to buy a new Book shelf and preorder every new 40K Black Library release

I guess im a junky for 40k reading material, even if some of it is total tripe.

WinglessVT2
20-02-2010, 20:53
It's okay.
My mom collects Bill&Ben books, so I won't judge you for collecting black library.

Hrw-Amen
20-02-2010, 21:00
I tend to read the ones for the armies I am interested in. You get bits from other races as a result of doing so.

I tend to go for the Imperial Guard & Inquisition mostly. I've read all the Ghosts novels and the Cain ones and the majority of the other IG ones out like Gun Heads etc. I've also read the HH series. Some of these were quite gripping I found, whereas others were a real struggle and I had to force myself to finish them.

Interestingly although I've read the Ghosts books and enjoyed them, I cannot get through that other book about the Sabbat Wars, can't even recall the name of it, the aircraft one. I just cannot get into it.

Similarly I've read a lot about the Inquisition, the Eisenhorn books I really liked. I have bought the Ravenor ones, but again I can't get the thread somehow and have not managed to be gripped by them enough to continue.

Sir_Turalyon
20-02-2010, 21:19
I don't treat BL novels as additional background (unlike sourcebooks like Xenology), just novels based on GW IP. As such I try to read good books (and authors) and avoid bad ones and voted "no, except... when they look really promising"). Even with reviews and plot summaries to giude me it's hit and miss, and I don't return to most of them.

Lord Malorne
20-02-2010, 21:32
I used to, then I got the courage to randomly pick up books in the scifi and fantasy sections and got some really good writing, so no I no longer read BL.

Angelwing
20-02-2010, 21:38
No, except if someone lends them to me.

Hicks
20-02-2010, 21:44
They are pretty much the only thing I read these days.

Morgrad
20-02-2010, 22:12
Some are very fun, some are utterly awful. I don't buy them, but I mooch them off people I know.

Lordsaradain
20-02-2010, 22:38
Yes I do. In fact I'm reading one right now, Eisenhorn by dan abnett.

Forgotmytea
20-02-2010, 22:55
Yes I do. In fact I'm reading one right now, Eisenhorn by dan abnett.
Good choice :D

I don't tend to read ones about the armies I collect, but instead certain authors, such as Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell. Sometimes they match up, like the Malus Darkblade series by Dan Abnett, but for the most part I tend to read them due to the author rather than because they tie in to my armies.

Dio“Ra
20-02-2010, 23:00
First book I read was Xenology, borrowed from a friend, then I started reading the HH series, and since then I have been hooked on the series...

Also I'm looking into trying out the Ciaphas Cain series, they seem rather enjoyable, Also the Eisenhorn trylogy is on my to buy list, having read some excerpts of the book ages ago in a white dwarf, and I still remember those passages, such good writing!...

Also I read the DEFF SKWADRON, not a book but a great graphic novel!

DCLXVI
20-02-2010, 23:18
I consider myself a new reader of BL books.
At the moment I'm halfway through Harlequin (2nd book of The Inquisition War - I read the first one years ago!).
Last year I bought all the HH books, the Eisenhorn, Ravenor and Grey Knights omnibuses and I've got the three Dawn of War books too. *phew* That should keep me going for a while!

Sorros
20-02-2010, 23:44
I haven't read any of them, and neither has a bunch of players at my local joint. But there are a few who have.

I'm curious though, as I do need a good sci-fi read...is Horus Rising and the rest of the series any good?

narrativium
20-02-2010, 23:48
It's always going to be a matter of taste, but Horus Rising is viewed quite favourably, and the Horus Heresy series are bestsellers.

Phil73805
21-02-2010, 02:02
Black Library is pretty much all I read. Now that I'm writing I'm being told that I have to expand to reading all sorts of stuff but despite that being good advice I still read mostly Black Library...I am weak :)

For the record I write reviews for bscreview.com and so far, 2 out of the 3 reviews I've written have been BL books.

wazatdingder
21-02-2010, 02:53
I consider myself a new reader of BL books.
At the moment I'm halfway through Harlequin (2nd book of The Inquisition War - I read the first one years ago!).
Last year I bought all the HH books, the Eisenhorn, Ravenor and Grey Knights omnibuses and I've got the three Dawn of War books too. *phew* That should keep me going for a while!

I'm sooo sorry, please stop now!!! The Inq War books rape the 40k universe.
Sure, you think there's going to be a decent payoff, you think the story take an interesting arch, but it boils down to an angst ridden piece of crap that is more suited for Twilight!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!

rhelsius
21-02-2010, 03:21
I“ve read a few, some were ok, but I would not put them past something to read on the bus. Some are poorly written, just a follow-up of violent scenes, some have a more intelligent and subtle plot woven in the story. Being a bestseller in some cases doesn“t make them good outright. But if people enjoy reading them, there must be something good about them. As far as I am concerned, I would not take them to a desert island.

Toffernz
21-02-2010, 05:57
There are good and bad books. Mot of the HH books have been good with a few absolutly excellen ones. I particularly enjoyed Legion, Mechanicus, Horus Rising and Fulgrim. The 13th Legion books are good. The Eisenhorn trilogy and Ravenor books are also amazing along with the gaunt novels but this is because they are written by Dan Abnett and frankly in the world of Black Library (IMHO) he is like a god author surrounded by lesser deities who worship the ink he writes with.

The Inq war trilogy are not brilliant but cannot be judged by modern standards as they are decdades old.

My rules for black library are as follows

1. If it is HH it will probably be good. Unless it has Dark Angels in which case it will be OK.
2. If it has the words Dan Abnett on it it will probably be the sort of book you start and then dont put down until its finished.
3. Most books concerning eldar do not really work very well as no-one has yet done the fluff justice.
4. Most imperial guard books are good.
5. Marine novels are either good or rubbish there is no grey area

Lupe
21-02-2010, 09:31
I've voted for 'Yes, often'. Except...

...C.S. Goto sucks. C.S. Goto is bad.
So bad, in fact, that the Mafia use deaf people to read his books out lout to people that crossed them.
There's even talk about the Geneva Convention being appended to cover his works.

Desert Rain
21-02-2010, 09:39
I've read a few black library novels, all of them for warhammer fantasy though.

Lexington
21-02-2010, 10:28
Ah, the Black Library - because sometimes, slash fiction is just too dignified.

There have been a few quality exceptions (the Eisenhorn trilogy, maybe half of the Gotrek & Felix books), but for the most part, I'd sooner use a BL novel for landfill. I truly gave up on them a few months ago when I cracked open an Imperial Fists book and read a few lines about a Chaplain named "Rhetoricus."

Emperor's Scourge
21-02-2010, 10:51
They're comic books without the pictures. I really enjoy reading them when I'm taking a dump or about to go to sleep. Not high brow literature, but still fun reads. Usually. There are a few that are absolute crap imo, but you can usually tell by the author. Goto and Counter for instance...

The Wolf Blade series are the books I hate the most though. I'm a SW player and they just...they're terrible.

DCLXVI
21-02-2010, 11:08
I'm sooo sorry, please stop now!!! The Inq War books rape the 40k universe.
Sure, you think there's going to be a decent payoff, you think the story take an interesting arch, but it boils down to an angst ridden piece of crap that is more suited for Twilight!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!
Hehe, just saw this reply.
I know they were written waaay back when 40k books were few and far between so I was interested in reading it more from a nostalgia point of view as I thought the first book was really good when I read it all those years ago. I have noticed that Harlequin seems a lot slower than the first book though. Hmm.. I'll bear your comment in mind as I continue, and if it really does degenerate into a load of crap it'll go back on the shelf. After all, I've got all those HH books staring at me...:shifty:

Promethius
21-02-2010, 11:31
Yes, I own all the 40k books BL have made, and am up-to-date on my reading. The only thing I've not got into is audiobooks. Just don't fancy them, though might give one a go in the car next week.

e2055261
21-02-2010, 11:41
Never read any. Never felt the need. Might read if lent to me but don't think i'll part with any cash. I'm reading Patrick O Brien's Aubrey/Maturin novels; these take up much of my reading time lately.

Black Antelope
21-02-2010, 11:43
I tend to only buy the omnibuses.
I have the first 2 GG, and the first Cain and Eisenhorn ones.

I've also read some of the HH books, and some of those are very bad (2nd/3rd lunar wolves, Decent of Angels) but the very first and Flight are quite good.

As a whole though, the Black Libary is not where near as good as Asimov, Hamilton, Clark, Mccaffry etc for Sci-Fi

metal bawks
21-02-2010, 14:18
Hehe, just saw this reply.
I know they were written waaay back when 40k books were few and far between so I was interested in reading it more from a nostalgia point of view as I thought the first book was really good when I read it all those years ago. I have noticed that Harlequin seems a lot slower than the first book though. Hmm.. I'll bear your comment in mind as I continue, and if it really does degenerate into a load of crap it'll go back on the shelf. After all, I've got all those HH books staring at me...:shifty:

The 40k universe was a lot different back then. Some people will find it appealing, others not.
That said, I thought the first book (Draco/Inquisitor) was quite good, Harlequin was not as good but still ok, but Chaos Child just loses all direction and purpose after the first 60 pages or so. I felt cheated at the end.
On a side note, there was supposed to be a fourth book, but it never got written.

Shadowheart
21-02-2010, 15:10
Every now and again. From what I've read so far I'd say they're okay about as often as they're less than okay. And more often really awful than pretty good.

I've enjoyed the Fantasy stuff more than the 40K - with the exception of Abnett, who's actually professional enough to provide the requisite action/adventure even on an off day.

TheWarSmith
21-02-2010, 17:18
I'm actually reading my very first BL novel right now, Thousand Sons. Mostly because I'm getting back into 40k w/ a Thousand Sons army, and hoping the book inspires me and gives me insight/ideas.

I also read Liber Chaotica, but I'm not sure if you count that as a "novel", as it's technically more of a source book.

the1stpip
21-02-2010, 19:11
I have never read any BL books. The only GW books I have read come from before BL (Inquisitor, Beast in Velvet and Deathwing).

I have considered HH, but I have heard they get worse as they go along, so its not worth it.

The boyz
21-02-2010, 19:22
I used to read alot of BL books. However nowadays, I only tend to pick up the odd book here and there, if I'm after an easy read.

Mr Zoat
21-02-2010, 19:25
Interestingly although I've read the Ghosts books and enjoyed them, I cannot get through that other book about the Sabbat Wars, can't even recall the name of it, the aircraft one. I just cannot get into it.


Double Eagle.

I own the first Ciaphas Cain omnibus and plan to buy the second when it is released. I've also read a few others but that was the best.

Dejay
21-02-2010, 19:27
I've read one so far, looking forward to reading more.

leadlair
21-02-2010, 19:43
I haven't read any of them, and neither has a bunch of players at my local joint. But there are a few who have.

I'm curious though, as I do need a good sci-fi read...is Horus Rising and the rest of the series any good?

The first four books are excellent. The others are a least ok. The one exception is Battle for the Abyss which I felt could have just been a generic 40k book.

The big problem I have with many of the recent Black Library books is they tend to take almost a 100 pages to get going. It literally took me four months to get through the first 100 pages of Mechanicus and then I finished the last 300 by the end of the night.

MistaGav
21-02-2010, 19:47
I've read a fair few but I haven't read many books. I've read Angels of Darkness, Heroes of the space marines and the first two in the ultramarine omnibus. At the moment I am starting the Horus Heresy series and the last ultramarine one in the omnibus.

Aubec le noir
21-02-2010, 21:51
yes often
specially inquisition ones and dwarf ones (gotrek...)
Aubec :chrome:

wazatdingder
21-02-2010, 22:06
The 40k universe was a lot different back then. Some people will find it appealing, others not.
That said, I thought the first book (Draco/Inquisitor) was quite good, Harlequin was not as good but still ok, but Chaos Child just loses all direction and purpose after the first 60 pages or so. I felt cheated at the end.
On a side note, there was supposed to be a fourth book, but it never got written.

Amen Brother!

As for a 4th book, I would rather read a roll of toilet paper after wiping my ass with it.:evilgrin:

eggmarine
21-02-2010, 22:24
The quality is pretty patchy, but I'm loving the Horus Heresy series despite there being a few lemons in there. It's 'genre lit' so it's always enjoyable if you're a fan. Dan Abnetts stuff is consistently good, he spins a good yarn and I've been reading his stuff since he was scripting for 2000AD. Out of the heresy series most of the memorable moments are from Abnetts stories. I've read most of the BL 40k stuff but the only 'keepers' on my shelf are Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Gaunts and the first few Heresy series.

Basically they have one author producing pearlers and a bunch producing surprisingly addictive offal.

shadowtemplar16
21-02-2010, 22:54
Yep most novels i read are black library

its really for two reasons:

1. Sci fi and fantasy are my fav genres
2. Im in love with the background and worlds created by GW, i still couldn't tell you why but itd take to long anyways.

Bloodriver
22-02-2010, 00:18
For several years until recently I had read hardly any fiction at all, concentrating on history, science and philosophy, and relying on movies for fiction.

But a friend lent me a couple of BL novels last year, and I fear I'm becoming addicted. I'm trying to limit myself to books that concern the armies I collect, but since my main army is Chaos Marines, that includes the Heresy series - the Chaos Marines' origin story.

Just finished Flight of the Eisenstein, which I thought was a return to form after being a bit disappointed by False Gods and Galaxy in Flames.

Right now I'm reading Pawns of Chaos, which is quite different from others I've read and very entertaining. I really enjoyed Anthony Reynolds' Word Bearers series, but I thought Graham McNeill's Storm of Iron was just stupid. The seige tactics employed therin were obsolete by the end of the 18th Century and have no place in a hi-tech SF environment. Plus, I found myself falling asleep every four of five pages. But it has its fans...

Earthbeard
22-02-2010, 05:37
Yep, I get pretty much every BL book released.

I find most to be enjoyable too. I'm a little perturbed by the current obsession with Audio Books (personally dislike them), and the format of Rynn's World and that series of books.

Plague.Monk
22-02-2010, 07:04
If I wanted to get into BL novels, where is a good place to start or a good series to look into?

Thud
22-02-2010, 11:48
I really like the 40k background so I have a rather large pile of BL books. They're good for a couple hours entertainment each, but that's about it.

Petay1985
22-02-2010, 12:32
I am an avid fan of the Horus Heresy books bu I have also read the Space Wolves ommnibus books, the blood angels books, a few other misc ones, Fire Warrior, Deathwing, Angels of Darkness, etc...

I am now workign through Rynns World too, and i am really quite enjoying it!


If I wanted to get into BL novels, where is a good place to start or a good series to look into?

Depends on your prefered reading material? whats your race or army of choice? - i think the horus herest books make for a pretty good read, they are not perfect or litterary master pieces but enjoyable none the less.

laudarkul
22-02-2010, 12:50
Yes. Quite often. Both Fantasy and 40k. In the last 2 years (since I get involved in this madness) I acquired more then 100 books and I enjoyed each one of them. I just hope that PoD will allow me to get my hand on some oldest books also.

Phil73805
22-02-2010, 13:02
I really like the 40k background so I have a rather large pile of BL books. They're good for a couple hours entertainment each, but that's about it.

What else were you hoping for? Profound insights into the human condition? The deeper mysteries of existence laid bare for all to see?

Why is there such snobbery around books that provide entertainment, particularly tie-in or genre fiction. As far as I'm concerned, if a book paints a vivid picture, tells a riveting tale and has compelling characters it's as worthy as anything that calls itself literature. I 'love' these people that look down their nose at it. *Irritating nasal voice* "Weeelll if it isn't Dickens or (insert appropriately classicy author name here) it just isn't worth anything"

Oh please! Unclench.

Petay1985
22-02-2010, 13:22
Why is there such snobbery around books that provide entertainment, particularly tie-in or genre fiction. As far as I'm concerned, if a book paints a vivid picture, tells a riveting tale and has compelling characters it's as worthy as anything that calls itself literature.

Here, here! I competely agree! :)

Phil73805
22-02-2010, 13:24
I'm a little perturbed by the current obsession with Audio Books (personally dislike them)

I couldn't agree more. BL are asking me to part with £10 for a story that lasts about an hour with irritating muzak and sound effects. I tried the Gotrek and Felix one and haven't darkened their audiobook doorway since.

By the by, the name audiobook is misleading. At just over an hour to read through, audiopamphlet/audioshortstory is more accurate.

ManicMunky
22-02-2010, 13:27
I don't have the attention span for books :D

Shadowheart
22-02-2010, 13:35
I 'love' these people that look down their nose at it.
Do you even know who you're talking about? It sounds as though you just want to whine and put someone down. But instead of doing it to some actual people, you make up a vague group defined only by one unsympathetic characteristic. Yeah, people who are all like, rude and mean, they suck. Go figure.

I mean, to go from Thud's comment to your mini-rant suggests a certain urge to rant. It's not like there's been any actual sneering at genre fiction in this thread right here. Just some people who don't think the Black Library's genre fic is much to get excited about.

Phil73805
22-02-2010, 14:07
Do you even know who you're talking about? It sounds as though you just want to whine and put someone down. But instead of doing it to some actual people, you make up a vague group defined only by one unsympathetic characteristic. Yeah, people who are all like, rude and mean, they suck. Go figure.

I mean, to go from Thud's comment to your mini-rant suggests a certain urge to rant. It's not like there's been any actual sneering at genre fiction in this thread right here. Just some people who don't think the Black Library's genre fic is much to get excited about.

I appear to have struck a nerve. Admittedly I went from a small remark to make a larger point. However there are numerous remarks spread throughout the thread about the lack of literary content in BL novels. As if the label 'Literature' is the highest form of the art. I was also aiming for humourous rather than attacking, I appear to have missed, my bad. The literary 'rant' is funny because you can imagine the author frothing at the mouth. I rant for funsies, no offence is intended.

Whether you like it or not there is a great deal of snobbery regarding tie-in/genre fiction. I think it's silly. Point made. I again invite all to unclench, myself included. I risk absorbing the chair upon which I am sitting.

Inquisitor Catren
22-02-2010, 14:19
I only got into Black Library books about a year and a half ago but I have bought a fair amount of books, my favourite of which are the Horus Heresy.

So yes I would consider myself an often reader of BL novels

Thud
22-02-2010, 14:40
What else were you hoping for? Profound insights into the human condition? The deeper mysteries of existence laid bare for all to see?

Why is there such snobbery around books that provide entertainment, particularly tie-in or genre fiction. As far as I'm concerned, if a book paints a vivid picture, tells a riveting tale and has compelling characters it's as worthy as anything that calls itself literature. I 'love' these people that look down their nose at it. *Irritating nasal voice* "Weeelll if it isn't Dickens or (insert appropriately classicy author name here) it just isn't worth anything"

Oh please! Unclench.

:eyebrows:

If you want to reply to my post, I suggest you reply to what I actually posted instead of just making stuff up.

You seem to be under the impression that I expect "profound insights into the human conditions" from BL books. I do not, nor did I say anything to that effect. I don't know where you got that from, but it wasn't from my post. I suspect you have a very vivid imagination. Good for you.

Chiron
22-02-2010, 14:50
I appear to have struck a nerve. Admittedly I went from a small remark to make a larger point. However there are numerous remarks spread throughout the thread about the lack of literary content in BL novels. As if the label 'Literature' is the highest form of the art. I was also aiming for humourous rather than attacking, I appear to have missed, my bad. The literary 'rant' is funny because you can imagine the author frothing at the mouth. I rant for funsies, no offence is intended.

Its nothing to do with literature and everything to do with how they are badly written, cliched lumps of bumf

Phil73805
22-02-2010, 15:12
:eyebrows:

If you want to reply to my post, I suggest you reply to what I actually posted instead of just making stuff up.

You seem to be under the impression that I expect "profound insights into the human conditions" from BL books. I do not, nor did I say anything to that effect. I don't know where you got that from, but it wasn't from my post. I suspect you have a very vivid imagination. Good for you.

Oh dear. Right, I took four words from your post and attempted to address a larger point that I felt was hinted at in your words. You said that the books were a couple of hours of entertainment and that was about it

"that's about it" made me think that the books in some way fell short of your expectations. You probably didn't mean that. I took it out of context and had a cheeky little rant. This was instead of ploughing through three pages of posts and quoting all the posts that made more obviously snarky observations about the quality of all BL novels, so I'm lazy, sue me. I forgot that forums are not a place for humour or slight cheekiness. Again, my bad.

As for my vivid imagination, well, it's cheaper than porn :)

Seriously, please read anything I write with humour. It's never intended to hurt or annoy though I realise I will often fall short of my aims.

Oh and one other thing, BL rocks! :)

Thud
22-02-2010, 16:17
Oh dear. Right, I took four words from your post and attempted to address a larger point that I felt was hinted at in your words. You said that the books were a couple of hours of entertainment and that was about it

Yep. And that is it. Expectations or not, I get a couple hours entertainment out of a BL book. Nothing more. But as the other part of my initial post hinted at, regarding my large pile of BL books, I'm fairly content with a couple hours entertainment. ;)




I forgot that forums are not a place for humour or slight cheekiness.

The internet. Serious business.

It's all good, though. It's just that sometimes thsi humour or cheekiness can be hard to detect in someone's posts. I'd play the "not native speaker" card here, but I think I'd feel a little dirty doing that... :p


Seriously, please read anything I write with humour. It's never intended to hurt or annoy though I realise I will often fall short of my aims.

No prob. It's not like I was horrifyingly offended or anything, but I tend to find strawman arguments annoying.


Oh and one other thing, BL rocks! :)

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one...

neXus6
22-02-2010, 16:29
Nowadays I'm in the "no never" group.

When I was in my early teens I really liked some of the probably poorer BL books, Space Wolf series, then I got a bit older and moved onto Gaunt's Ghost, then a little older still and read a number by Sandy Mitchell and Graham McNiell...and now I've moved off of BL entirely.

Of course that's a generalisation, there were great one off books that I liked all through that time, Storm of Iron, Eisenhorn, Genevive, some of the Horus Heresy books. The main point is valid though, as my reading tastes have...matured is maybe the wrong word, but certainly changed I've stopped reading books by certain authors, and now stopped entirely infavour of non-BL fantasy/supernatural novels.

Phil73805
22-02-2010, 16:48
Thanks for clearing that up Thud, glad we sorted out the tangle.

I wasn't actually making a strawman argument, I seriously think that there's a lot of BL stuff that is of a very high standard. I attempt to make these arguments with humour in the hopes of getting my point across without offending...yes, I know. Epic Fail.

Dan Abnett, a man at whose altar I unashamedly worship, is the inspiration for my own writing. His books always provoke a genuine emotional response in me. That's my litmus test for good writing. Graham McNeill is also excellent and some of the others are little more hit and miss. Aaron Dembski Bowden is showing huge promise, his debut novel Cadian Blood was world class.

As far as the native speaker thing goes, there's nothing wrong with feeling dirty! But seriously folks, truth to be told I was being a little disingenuous. Without the liberal use of smilies it's almost impossible to convey tone, though I do try hard, and this misunderstanding leads to irritation, upset and other bad things.

So let me be serious for a moment. Cliches become cliches for a reason. Oft visited themes/stories are that way because they speak to us at a fundamental level. I read a story to see these ideas expressed in fresh and interesting ways. I don't think that 'new' is necessarily good. Old ideas/themes have real power in the right hands, especially when you consider the power of history that they bring with them.

There's a lot more to say on the subject. Let no one pretend that there aren't some seriously snobby points made on this thread that have gone unremarked. All cliched bumf? Fair enough, maybe my standards are oh so much lower but any novel where the story, characters and prose grab me and drop me into the scene is going to get my vote as a good book. For me there is no other measure, objectivity is a myth.

Troah
22-02-2010, 17:15
Nope, can't get into 40k books. They're almost all about Space Marines or Guards..both of which I couldn't care less about.

Shadowheart
22-02-2010, 20:01
Admittedly I went from a small remark to make a larger point. However there are numerous remarks spread throughout the thread about the lack of literary content in BL novels.

Of course I'll accept you were trying to be funny and didn't mean offense. But what point were you trying to make? I'm sure there's some people out there who fit the spiteful caricature of the literary snob. But they're nowhere to be seen.

I've read back over the thread, I think the word literary comes up once. And there's a fast food analogy. That's it. Plenty negative comments, sure (and at least as many positive ones), but no indication that that's got anything to do with the fact that it's genre fic. Could just be that people think it's bad genre fic.

Cerraand
22-02-2010, 20:41
I've only read Liber Necris and Liber chaotica (mostly).
The other books doesn't really interest me

Awilla the Hun
22-02-2010, 20:48
I read them occasionally, because I am an optimist when it comes to the quality of books. The last one I bought was "Grey Seer". I thought it would be exclusively Thanquol, and would involve as much magnificent, hilarious bastardy as in the Gotrek and Felix novels on his part. It turns out that, as of about 100 pages in, the author jammed in a bunch of exceptionally bland smugglers, of the type who walk in as cliched extras in almost any Black Library Fantasy novel. I may keep going with it, but that is increasingly unlikely.

Aurellis
22-02-2010, 20:50
I read them all the time, I would say that at least half of the books that I read are Black Library publications. The last ones I read were Double Eagle by Dan Abnett, and Salamander by Nick Kyme; both were excellent. A lot of the complaints about BL novels on these forums are pretty incorrect and for the most part elitist stereotyping.

Forgotmytea
22-02-2010, 22:16
I read them all the time, I would say that at least half of the books that I read are Black Library publications. The last ones I read were Double Eagle by Dan Abnett, and Salamander by Nick Kyme; both were excellent. A lot of the complaints about BL novels on these forums are pretty incorrect and for the most part elitist stereotyping.
The Warhammer-gaming world is divided into those who have read the Eisenhorn trilogy and the Gaunt's Ghosts series, and those who are going to read them :p

Oguleth
22-02-2010, 23:36
Sometimes... Most BL books tends to have some kind of concept, humor or melodramatic action sequences I like - often the characters ends up being horribly boring or badly handled, or sometimes be rather interesting. I originally just read fantasystuff (as I both played FB and WHFRP), but after playing more 40k I tried reading more 40k stuff; but most marine books pans out mostly the same. And even the HH books starts to go about the same way - so I am mostly waiting for those Alatoic books.

Overall I think BL is pretty much like Sci-fi/fantasy in general - the odd interesting timeeating gem in a sea of mediocrity and lack of originality. Skavenslayer is perhaps not the deepest and most visionary book, but for being entertainment, it surely is up there with the best.

nightgant98c
23-02-2010, 05:04
I've read quite a few. They're usually entertaining, even when they aren't very well written.

starlight
23-02-2010, 05:27
Not any more.

I tried reading BL books (WFB and 40K) several years ago. They were so terrible I can't bear to part with any more money to see if they've improved... :( ...and from everything I've heard, they basically haven't.

If you like poorly written pulp warporn, they fill a niche...but otherwise, no. :(

iseeleadpeople
23-02-2010, 15:05
well every one likes something different, I like most bl books and am hlfway throught Rynns world. Some times they do make you wince, but hey they are just ment to be pulp and for fun.

Still have my fave book well before bl Ian Watsons Space Marine.

Killgore
23-02-2010, 15:21
The excessive warporn in some BL books i will admit does make me loose interest in whichever book Im reading, but its the ideas, settings, background, names and all the awsomeness of the 40K universe that often gets expanded that keeps me comming back and buying more.

insan0
23-02-2010, 15:42
I couldn't agree more. BL are asking me to part with £10 for a story that lasts about an hour with irritating muzak and sound effects. I tried the Gotrek and Felix one and haven't darkened their audiobook doorway since.

By the by, the name audiobook is misleading. At just over an hour to read through, audiopamphlet/audioshortstory is more accurate.

I have read a handful of the BL books but it has been awhile.
Thanks for the heads up on the audiobooks I was thinking of buying some for old times sake.
I used to enjoy the odd audio book back in the day. But then again they were from my local library so there was no charge, they were also R.A. Salvatore's Forgotten Realms/Dark Elf sagas so the quality of writing was up there and they had pleasing readers.

Back on the BL topic I enjoy the Felix & Gotrek books, they are entertaining slasher/pulp novels. 40k side I have only read the Eye of Terror which was an interesting look at the backwater or fringe areas around the eye.

GrogDaTyrant
23-02-2010, 16:11
Yes. Preferably Abnet's work. I'm an avid fan of the Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, and Ravenor series. Many of the other authors are good as well.

But interestingly enough, as an Ork player I refuse to read any of the novels that deal with the Orks (Gun Heads, Rynn's World, Iron Snake one, etc.). This is because IMO Black Library does a pretty ****-poor job of portraying the Orks. It seems like Orks are the universe's punching bag for everyone else according to Black Library (and probably all of GW's developers).

neXus6
23-02-2010, 18:47
Naturally with the Imperium being the "good guys" everyone else does often turn into a punch bag at some point, that's just the way of things with the majority of books like these.

The Deff Skwadron comic is probably the best Ork piece, mostly because it's from the Orks POV.
:p

blankhalo
23-02-2010, 19:07
Judging by some of the posts on this thread there needed to be a top option of 'Yes, I own all of them...' :-)

Personally I own all the 40k novels (except the short story collections) and some of the Fantasy omnibuses.

Big fan of Dan Abnett, and the last two novels from Sandy Mitchell about the inquisition have been storming.

Samus_aran115
23-02-2010, 19:08
I haven't read any yet, but I really want to. I just started playing 40k over christmas, so I've been buying models lately.. The books are pretty cheap, but I don't really have enough spare cash for books. I heard dark apostle is good... I'll probably start with that.

Hyrophant
26-02-2010, 03:02
I only buy the omnibus editions, but I've got so many of them my bookshelf has run out of room for them. I love the 40k books for the fluff, of course, but it seems like the fantasy books are the only good hard fantasy I can find anymore.

thebrassthief
26-02-2010, 06:47
I am a huge fan of anything with "Black Library" and "Dan Abnett" on the cover. The Horus Heresy series is great too, if a little hard to read because of changing authors.

RangeFinder
26-02-2010, 09:23
I read them often. I find them filling that gap between games. Also as a source of inspiration for forming campaign from.

Some authors I look forward to reading, others I'm a bit more hesitant. How ever I have enjoyed all that I have read.

Scythe
26-02-2010, 09:30
No, except the Eisenhorn trilogy, which was quite enjoyable. I have limited interest in reading about space marines (and, though they are an army of mine, IG), limited time, and a huge list of books I want to read (none of which are BL), so I cannot see myself reading any other BL books in the near future ;)

Lord of Worms
26-02-2010, 09:33
I'm sooo sorry, please stop now!!! The Inq War books rape the 40k universe.
Sure, you think there's going to be a decent payoff, you think the story take an interesting arch, but it boils down to an angst ridden piece of crap that is more suited for Twilight!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!

Agreed. I've ranted on this subject before, so I'll spare you now, but the whole series was just a bunch of "could have beens" as observed by a bumbling idiot of a main character. I wish I had more thumbs to turn down at this crap.

I read instead of watching TV, so although I read a lot of BL, I read more other stuff as well.

chromedog
26-02-2010, 09:40
I'll read a few of them, but the Horus Heresy series didn't thrill me (Mechanicus was the only one I could bring myself to finish and it is far from the best) and the less said about the raving scribbles of CS Goto the better.

Dan Abnett's stuff is about the only stuff I'll bother reading these days. I'd rather read Eisenhorn or Ravenor again than the HH books.

hateful
26-02-2010, 12:52
i read pretty much all the 40k books but get annoyed at having to wait for the next instalment why cant they put out a new book every month?

starlight
26-02-2010, 17:27
They're low enough quality already and you want them to pump them out *faster*...? :eek:

laudarkul
27-02-2010, 09:50
They fill the 40k universe blank spots with every one of them. I just hope that they have a big map with the Universe and they fill it with flags asap.
Ok their quality is not always exceptional, but we can not expect the same quality as EA Poe, Frank Herbert, Asimov, AC Clarke, AE van Vogt books from all of BL authors...

starlight
27-02-2010, 19:46
Oddly enough, it's not the *writing* that keeps me from buying them, but the *editing*...

If they fixed the spelling mistakes and horrible continuity errors, I'd likely read them all...but I like a book that flows well and doesn't have me flipping back and forth in confusion as to who is doing/carrying/etc whatever... :(

If they tightened that up, they'd get a lot more money from me...but obviously that's not important... :(

Seved
27-02-2010, 19:58
I have read almost every 40k novel having been released and the quality is average. I have never expected any of them to be masterpieces either, but when I read a good book like Lords of the Night or Soul Hunter, that I am about to finish, so is it a great joy.:D:skull:

jt.glass
27-02-2010, 22:48
I've read quite a few. They're usually entertaining, even when they aren't very well written.By what metric are they not well written, if they are written to be entertainign and they are?


jt.

starlight
28-02-2010, 00:22
A book can be entertaining from a story perspective and still be not well written from a technical perspective (spelling, structure, continuity). :)

Apparently many people feel that Black Library novels fit this description. :)

Lord_Crull
28-02-2010, 00:38
A book can be entertaining from a story perspective and still be not well written from a technical perspective (spelling, structure, continuity). :)

Apparently many people feel that Black Library novels fit this description. :)

Of course.

I've read many books, mystery, action, crime thriller, and even some historical romance books my aunt gives me.

I pretty much prefer BL out of the lot. I simply don't see what is so bad about them.

ahorridwok
28-02-2010, 00:43
I've only just started reading Cadian Blood but I'd recommend it to anybody already!

TheSanityAssassin
28-02-2010, 05:19
I tend to read whatever Dan Abnett puts out, and anything by Graham McNeil that doesn't involve the Ultramarines (though those books are OK, they just aren't my thing).

Also a huge fan of Ciaphas Cain and the Word Bearer books...

I find I can usually tell which books have good merit and which feel like a random splash release that isn't worth the time.

magicmonkey
28-02-2010, 21:30
i did but then i read legion :wtf:

selone
06-03-2010, 04:41
I like the HH series though as said Ben counters novels are probably not as well regarded as Messrs Abnett and McNeil. I enjoyed Malekith by Gav thorpe too.
By the way is there a catalogue of all Black library releases over the last fewish years :)?

starlight
06-03-2010, 06:17
http://www.blacklibrary.com/releases.php

orkz222
06-03-2010, 11:17
Yes often. Just finished Titanicus, waiting for A Thousand sons and Soul hunter to arrive.

Lord of Worms
06-03-2010, 11:24
Yes often. Just finished Titanicus, waiting for A Thousand sons and Soul hunter to arrive.

Thousand Sons is awesome, and Soul Hunter is supposed to be really good as well.

MadHatter
06-03-2010, 11:42
I have only read the Soul drinkers Omnibus because I had to for work. I was given the first five books of the horus heresey and i only crack the frist book for a handful of chapters also for work.

I prefer the history in the Game Books to carry me through the hobby. I have not heard any novel which makes me jump and want to read it.

Lord of Worms
06-03-2010, 12:02
I have only read the Soul drinkers Omnibus because I had to for work. I was given the first five books of the horus heresey and i only crack the frist book for a handful of chapters also for work.


Soul Drinkers was crap. The only thing Ben Counter wrote that was any good was Daemon World. The one hid for HH was totally rewritten by Dan Abnett and Graham McNeill.

MadHatter
06-03-2010, 12:13
well I am not going to argue with that assesment. I did not like it and will not get the next set.

Lord of Worms
06-03-2010, 12:26
well I am not going to argue with that assesment. I did not like it and will not get the next set.

The HH is good for the most part. Descent of Angels is slow as molasses IMO, and another Counter gem, Battle for the Abyss is pretty crappy. The rest were good.

RCgothic
06-03-2010, 12:29
But Descent of Angels totally set up Fallen Angels, so it's not all bad.

Battle for the Abyss is certainly the weakest of the lot by a long margin.

Lord of Worms
06-03-2010, 12:32
But Descent of Angels totally set up Fallen Angels, so it's nto all bad.


I agree. It was important to the series, and I dont regret reading it, but it was still slow. Does that make sense?

RCgothic
06-03-2010, 13:36
I agree that it was slow, but it was still good. It was just so completely different from all the others that it had people a bit wtf, but with Fallen Angels it's all paid off.

selone
06-03-2010, 13:36
http://www.blacklibrary.com/releases.php

Cheers, was more looking for a little further back though :)