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Calgacvus
23-02-2010, 13:23
I finally got the WotR rulebook and had a quick read through yesterday deciding that I want to play Angmar. Since I read the books I thought the idea of Carn Dum was really cool so I want to have the majority of my army made up of Carn Dum warbands led by the Witch King on a fellbeast. I heard that Angmar was one of the weaker forces already so will this be a really terrible army?

My most common opponent will be taking mostly men of Minas Tirith, probably with Gandalf and Faramir as those are the models he has from when we used to play the skirmish game.

Nu Fenix
23-02-2010, 23:08
I have been recently thinking of taking a break from my Fallen Realms [due to them being the most popular local army] and looking at moving into Angmar. So, your post helps me at the same time :)

Carn Dum seem a balance between Uruk Hai and Orcs, due to their Fight and Defence but only Strength 3. However, The Berserk rule tips it, since you will be Strength 5 most the time, or sometimes even 7! That is enough to kill a Warrior of Minas Tirith on a 4+.

The issue with using a Witch King on a Fell Beast, is that unless they errata it to say otherwise, he is an ally and not allowed to be your leader. This is because on a Fell Beast he is a Legendary Formation from Mordor, whereas the Shadow of the Nazgul rule allows Epic Heroes only.

What are you planning to use for a Carn Dum warband? I was thinking of using Rohan and smoothing down the shields, and then painting markings on the shield, either the Eye or the red mountains of the area.

What else were you planning to use, as you said the majority will be Carn Dum, implying there is something else you want to use?

lorelorn
24-02-2010, 00:08
No, it won't be a terrible army. Angmar are very good, as long as you are past the notion that GW games must be played with GW figures.

Warlord Games do a great range of dark age models that work well as Carn-Dum models. The witch king is a great leader and you'll probably want another nazgul on foot. The Dark Marshal is good, as he helps out with Courage, which can be an issue.

If you go with Warlord models, then also consider taking allied 'Carn Dum chariots' by which I mean Khand chariot rules using the Warlord celt chariot boxes and models, to fit with the rest of your army...

Calgacvus
24-02-2010, 01:11
For the Carn Dum warbands I'm planning on using Army of the Dead green stuffed to look alive and given hoods, with round shields maybe a bit larger than Rohan shields but of the same style. I'm toying with the idea that my living things will be dark and subdued whilst the dead things will be more vibrantly coloured.

I just looked back at the book and you are right about the flying witch king not being mentioned specifically, though I feel like this is the letter of the rules rather than the intention, especially since he shows up in the picture on page 207. Do you think most people would have a problem with me using him mounted?

My provisional army list is the following...

Witch King on Fell Beast
Fate: Evil Reputation

Carn Dum warband
3 companies
Banner

Carn Dum warband
3 companies
Banner

Carn Dum warband
4 companies
Cheiftain
Banner

And then the other things I've been thinking of

Queen Beruthiel (representing a sorceress native to Angmar)
Another Ringwraith
A Court of Fallen Kings
Sharkeys Rogues
A Shade
More Carn Dum

But if the Witch King on Fell Beast is considered a problem I suppose I'll have to go for a 1500pts force and take him as the allied portion which will change things round a bit.

lorelorn
24-02-2010, 05:17
For the Carn Dum warbands I'm planning on using Army of the Dead green stuffed to look alive and given hoods, with round shields maybe a bit larger than Rohan shields but of the same style. I'm toying with the idea that my living things will be dark and subdued whilst the dead things will be more vibrantly coloured.

Also a very good option!



I just looked back at the book and you are right about the flying witch king not being mentioned specifically, though I feel like this is the letter of the rules rather than the intention,

No, it's the same for all Nazgul. For example the Dark Marshal on a fell beast is an ally for fallen realms. Keep him as an epic hero and he's native. You can still take the witch king like that, he just becomes an ally.

Calgacvus
24-02-2010, 10:36
No, it's the same for all Nazgul. For example the Dark Marshal on a fell beast is an ally for fallen realms. Keep him as an epic hero and he's native. You can still take the witch king like that, he just becomes an ally.

Damn that's annoying, why is he the only allied model that is shown in any of the faction pictures? Here's hoping for an errata. In the meantime I'll just have to increase the size of the force and take him as an ally since I've already converted a model for him. I can't see anything forbidding me taking the Witch King as my general even though he is an ally, is this the case?.

Here is the army list I made - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4426045#post4426045

Formation commands are pretty expensive, are they worth it in smaller sized formations like I have?

Nu Fenix
24-02-2010, 15:14
Bear in mind, the pictures aren't the best examples, as they also don't organise the models into companies/formations.

Whitwort Stormbringer
03-03-2010, 00:04
For Carn Dum, at least, it kinda makes sense that you can't have a mounted Witch King as the leader since (as far as I know) the nazgul didn't start using fell beasts as mounts until after Arwen/Elrond/Gandalf killed their horses at the fords.

In terms of models, using Army of the Dead is a cool idea, and in fact I think that's what GW did the first time they put out rules for Carn Dum in SBG in a white dwarf.

If you're not tied to GW models, then either Warlord Games' barbarians or some of the forthcoming plastic viking/saxon sets from Wargames Factory or Gripping Beast would probably be fitting, too. But, if you normally play in a store or anything like that, then I can definitely see where it would be more convenient to go with a GW conversion, and since Warriors of the Dead are available in plastic now it's really not too bad to pull off.

Sedge
03-03-2010, 08:21
For Carn Dum, at least, it kinda makes sense that you can't have a mounted Witch King as the leader since (as far as I know) the nazgul didn't start using fell beasts as mounts until after Arwen/Elrond/Gandalf killed their horses at the fords.


Thats why I think they don't get the fell beast. If they'd had them soon wouldn't theyu have flow to the shire and nabbed Frodo much much quicker:)

spiderman5z
08-05-2010, 06:15
I play Angmar and i love it! It is a bit hard to play... if u play it all ghosts/spirits like i do... My list right now for 2000 pts is...

Tainted

Dwimmerlaik

Sauron the Necromancer

6c of ghostly riders with cpt. and banner bearer

4c of spectres

4c of spectres

1c of Court of fallen kings

1c of Werewolves

1 Shade

As you can tell im really out numbered in most games i play. Even though it's mostly my fault since i decided to theme my army out to be all spirits, but recently i've been thinking of just breaking my theme a little and take out Sauron and put in a few companies of Carn Dum for some extra beefy berserker power. I don't really know what models to use for them though... Rohan seems like a good idea. With a little conversion they'd look pretty good... Witch King on a Nazghull seems like a huge point sink. If anything I'd just take the Betrayer on foot in a unit of Carn Dum or something and add in some ghostly riders (some of the best cav in the game in my opinion. 12 inches move spirit walk!!!!)

warlorddrax
11-05-2010, 07:58
or you could stick with the ghostly theme and use some ghostly Legions and put the Tainted and or Dwimmerlaik on fellbeasts. also, Ghulivar is amazing! he is a Spirit, but if you combine his charge with the Cavalry charge and his free Heroic fights, you get a sledghammer flank that will kill any unit in one combat phase. if you do that, try to have at least one of those units hit the flank of your target. that is very important.

just so you know, i play a pure Ghostly army as well, i love the theme, and when it is used properly, it is a force to be reconed with. it is rediculously finnessey though, since it has the best maneuverability of any army and has low Defence.

if you can master it though, you will quickly become a master at strategy games and countering your opponents units in unexpected ways.

unfortunately, the FAQ didn't cover the grey area about using the Nazgul on Fellbeasts as your leaders... given the There Are 9 rule, it is a grey area that is not likely to be definitively resolved.

but if you are doing 2000, it does not matter, take the Tainted and Dwimmerlaik on Fellbeasts (you can have 500 points of allies), have Ghulivar lead your army and run Ghostly Legions instead of the Spectres (they are really a waste of points. D4 is just too squishy for a unit of that price) put captains in every unit and keep them within the protective bubble of the shade so that they are protected from Epic Strike and enemy duels. (as a matter of fact, i encourage you to challege your opponents epic heroes to duels when you are both within range of the shade!)

i know that the Necromancer is good for a theme, but he really is not that great for this army. i would suggest that you drop him and take some ghostly legions

WerreWolves are just too squishy and swing as infantry... use Dead kings instead, or even better, more ghostly Legions or Cavalry. i cannot begin to tell you how powerful those basic units are when used properly.

don't be stingy with Might points, heroic fights are a gift from god for this army. and whenever possible, use your movement to charge out of the shades range while keeping your intended target within the shade's range. that is a definate epic killer combo right there and especially easy for the flying monsters to do.

PS. Winged Nazgul are the best artillery killers in the game! 36 inch fly + strength from corruption / visions of woe = dead artillery!

one last tip for now. if you are charging their front without hiting flank or rear at the same time, you are doing something wrong. you can walk right through them! hit them from behind! or flank them! you can do that easier than any other army. think about Ghostly Tactics. a ghose would strike unexpectedly then dissappear before you can react; think like a ghost and you will achieve victory

Calgacvus
11-05-2010, 17:41
I've gone for pretty much the total opposite of an all spirit list, apart from my characters and a court of fallen kings everything else is human. Unfortunately that means the majority of my army needs converting, though I'm getting pretty quick at turning army of the dead into carn dum warbands, I'll post some pics when I really crack onto the painting stage. I'm trying to carry on a sort of scottish theme onto the army, but I'm having trouble balancing the blues with blacks and pale flesh tones.

(1500pts)

witch king on fell beast
crown of carn dum

the dwimmerlaik

carn dum warband x4
captain

carn dum warband x4
captain

carn dum warband x4
captain

court of fallen kings

morgul knights x3
commander

morgul knights x3
commander

splash
11-05-2010, 18:15
Fluff-wise...didnt' the Witch King ride in a chariot when Angmar when to war with the North? Too bad GW doesn't have a Witch King chariot and rules.

spiderman5z
12-05-2010, 05:37
Spectres can be amazing in a combination with the Tainted. Sunder Spirit, Visions of woe, Transfix, Terror, and Sap Strength all having to roll for courage on the basic company courage. If you use them right you could be fighting against a F0 S1 formation hitting on 4's in general.

Calgacvus
12-05-2010, 08:35
4 companies of spectres with The Tainted costs 445 pts, for 450pts you could take Saruman and 6 companies of uruk hai crossbowmen. I know who would win between them, plus it must be almost impossible for the tainted to support both of your formations.

Hellfury
13-05-2010, 04:06
Fluff-wise...didnt' the Witch King ride in a chariot when Angmar when to war with the North? Too bad GW doesn't have a Witch King chariot and rules.

Or you could use the Khandish King in chariot rules with a custom made witchking chariot model.

Nu Fenix
13-05-2010, 16:56
And can be made to cause Terror with Tokens of Terror, or Evil Reputation if the Tokens are being used elsewhere.
However it wouldn't be able to cast spells, which would seem most unusual for the Witch King.

Alternatively, use the Winged Nazgul rules, as a chariot has the same size base [I think...] and you can clain it just goes faster than a normal chairot whilst flying because 'A Wizard Did It'.

splash
14-05-2010, 16:13
Or you could use the Khandish King in chariot rules with a custom made witchking chariot model.

I'd be fine with that, but one does loose out on Nazgul-ness if that happens. It would have to at least have more Might, Terror, maybe Spirit Grasp, and Mastery Level of 3.

spiderman5z
09-06-2010, 07:10
I'd be fine with that, but one does loose out on Nazgul-ness if that happens. It would have to at least have more Might, Terror, maybe Spirit Grasp, and Mastery Level of 3.

just use witch king riding a fellbeast rules but convert him to have a chariot! problem solved

Kronos
10-06-2010, 01:45
first off nice idea for the theme on the force, i hear of many ghost based Angmar armies but very few barbarian rebels. And also nice idea on Beruthiel.

As for Angmar from a tactical point of view, well Angmar can be tricky, said to be the "weakest" of all the factions given that it was supposed to be simply an allies list. (but it seems the dark lord as servants further away than Mordor, perhaps even in Notingham :p ).

I's suggest having a little read through this thread, which may have some pointers. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194087

Khamul
10-06-2010, 06:58
That should do fairly well, I played against some spirits a while ago and they MURDERED my orcs. I really love the Carn Dum warband rules, I'm considering hauling some in as allies.

Calgacvus
10-06-2010, 17:00
I finally got round to picking up a paint brush. Here is my first Carn Dum Company (sans shields, basing and a bit of neatening up).

catdubh
14-06-2010, 16:09
Some photos of Gripping beast Vikings. As usual the camera never seams to do them justice. But will give you an idea

Sedge
15-06-2010, 10:15
Very good compatability between model ranges which is good.:)

Khamul
15-06-2010, 21:38
Nice looking Carn Dum!!! They look like a cross between Clansmen of Lamedon and Men of the Dead... Naturally.

Xelee
15-06-2010, 22:34
Yeah, I am pretty keen to use these myself. IMO Angmar has by far one of the most useful 'common' choices in the game. Good defense and Berserkers. I know that some think the army should be played another way, but the list itself is very sound.

It doesn't hurt that the figs could be used for a Historicals army as well.

spiderman5z
21-06-2010, 03:08
I think if you're gonna use carn dum u should ally in thyrdan and count him as a carn dum king or something like that the inspiring leader is pretty useful since carn dum are only C2