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Nu Fenix
23-02-2010, 23:20
I was browsing through the GW website when it mentioned some Warhammer World Events. Looking through, I found the master list for their events over the next year - http://warhammerworld.typepad.com/2010%20PDF%20public%20calendar%2012.02.10.pdf

Now, I knew there was a SBG GT, however I noticed for the weekend of the 14th & 15th of August that there is a WOTR GT. Have they decided not to advertise it yet because it is too far in advance, or did I miss something?

A part of me is glad that it is getting a GT, and hopefully means a FAQ may finally get published. However, I also wonder how much effort/support will go into it as well.

I have never been interested in going to a GT, as there is a reputation of tournament players sucking the fun out of the game, and fun is the reason I play. But I also imagine there would be more of a community attutude with the event, due to their being so few of us, and seeming more relaxed from the posts I see here on Warseer.

Mist520
23-02-2010, 23:34
I have never been interested in going to a GT, as there is a reputation of tournament players sucking the fun out of the game, and fun is the reason I play.
At Fantasy/40k GTs that might be true, but not at LotR GT. You will never find a more fun big tournament than LotR GT except the LotR Doubles GT. The thing about LotR GTs is that the best players have really big respect to others and to the background of the books too, if anybody even dares to exploit a rule to their advantage and win, they will be flamed on forums and lose respect of the UK players (especially TLA!) for as long as they are remembered.

WotR GT is looking good so far, just needs errata to go with it.

Sedge
24-02-2010, 08:23
Well that interest me a lot. I've done a lot of WFB tournaments in the past (heck I've even won a couple) so this should be a laugh. The WFB GT always looked too win at all cost to me with loads of daft armies but hopefully this should be a little different. It depends on what the FAQ is like as well.

I really want them to come down on the side of 'NO Epic Strike in duels'. That way the points cost of Heros looks sensible. We play it that you ALWAYS use your unmodified fight value for duels. No ES, Epic charge, no terror reduction as well (formation has F0 but hero stands unbowed), it works really well.

Midloo
24-02-2010, 18:39
I really want them to come down on the side of 'NO Epic Strike in duels'. That way the points cost of Heros looks sensible. We play it that you ALWAYS use your unmodified fight value for duels. No ES, Epic charge, no terror reduction as well (formation has F0 but hero stands unbowed), it works really well.

Sorry for the hijack, but could you go into more detail on these? Didn't follow some of the last comments. I'm trying to get folks more excited about WotR in my area. We had a good thing going for a while, but it petered out with the lack of a FAQ on some of the more critical issues.

Reinholt
24-02-2010, 20:20
Basically, the gist above is that heroic duels get very unbalanced if you allow major fight modifications.

Fight 0 and fight 10 are a big deal, there are various rules interpretations that allow or disallow them.

For what it's worth, our group also plays that both terror and epic strike dont impact duels.

Gaargod
24-02-2010, 22:50
What's up with no FAQ incidentally? Its been some while now, and whilst i understand its probably quite a major one (a much larger book than normal), they couldn't release it in parts? So, main rules, evil, good...

someone2040
25-02-2010, 05:52
Who knows. Perhaps they are waiting for Battlehosts to come out (or perhaps BattleHosts may itself contain the FAQ, similar to the old Chronicles 200X books).

It is really odd that one year later there is none though.

Nu Fenix
13-04-2010, 20:21
Checking the Warhammer world events calendar, and the date for the WOTR GT has moved - from mid-August to November! Granted they hadn't officially announced it, but it seemed so positive being in only August.

http://warhammerworld.typepad.com/2010%20public%20calendar%2012.04.10.pdf

The strange thing is nothing has replaced it, they have just left August almost event free, with only Sunday 1st being the second day of Warhammer Battlefields.

Since FAQs and GTs seem to be relatively close to one another, I am even more pessimistic about seeing an FAQ for WOTR :(

Rhamag
14-04-2010, 23:31
I'm very interested in a GT for WoTR. Echoing earlier posts, players of the game seem to be, on the whole, more relaxed than those who concentrate on 40K or WFB tournaments. It will also be an incentive to finish painting my Uruk-hai.

Does anyone have any guesses what the points value will be? In my GW we were playing 2000pts as "full-sized" but that may have been the WFB players in us coming out.

dtjunkie19
14-04-2010, 23:49
In my opinion, The model count is too high in WotR to have a tactical game on a 6x4 board in anytime more than 1500pts. More than that and you lose out on parts of the game or restrict how many formations you are bringing to the table.

in 2000 points I can easily easily fill up most if not all of my deployment zone if I was so inclined. That would be an incredibly boring game to play for both sides. as no one would be able to maneuver.

Enfid
15-04-2010, 03:24
In my opinion, The model count is too high in WotR to have a tactical game on a 6x4 board in anytime more than 1500pts. More than that and you lose out on parts of the game or restrict how many formations you are bringing to the table.

in 2000 points I can easily easily fill up most if not all of my deployment zone if I was so inclined. That would be an incredibly boring game to play for both sides. as no one would be able to maneuver.

The spectacle of the game is awesome, but I have the same criticism as you do. A proper game of 2000 points will need more than 6x4, maybe 8x5(6?) or something. I think for practicality they'll have to set the points to 1500 points or less.

Avatar of the Eldar
15-04-2010, 05:18
In my opinion, The model count is too high in WotR to have a tactical game on a 6x4 board in anytime more than 1500pts. More than that and you lose out on parts of the game or restrict how many formations you are bringing to the table.

in 2000 points I can easily easily fill up most if not all of my deployment zone if I was so inclined. That would be an incredibly boring game to play for both sides. as no one would be able to maneuver.

I mildly disagree for the following reasons:

- I've played a few games at 2000 points and it was not table edge to table edge. (Gondor vs. Isengard or Rohan vs Isengard)

- The key is maxing formation size instead of adding more formations. Cav is often kept in file or 2-company wide fit between small gaps between infantry formations.

- Historically, big battles didn't have much manovering of units or elements within a battle line. (The micro-manovering in WFB just wears me out.)

All that said, I'd say 2000 pts is about the limit for 4x6 and that 5x8 would be desirable.

As to the OP regarding a WotR GT. I'm ambivalent for the same reason given by Nu Fenix. I'm all for anything that will generate interest in this deserving game system. But I like this game the way it is and wouldn't want to see the retardedly reductionistic optimization I see in WFB or 40K. But, to Mist520's comments about the norms of SBG tournaments, perhaps if there were a "Tolkein Theme" score equivalent to "Comp", that awarded points not based on unit type balance, but rather adherance to the Tolkein cannon. Maybe that would serve to cull out Haradrim/Misty Mountains min-maxed lists of Mumaks, Dragons and Balrogs. (Not that I've ever seen one of those, but you get my drift.)

ForgottenLore
15-04-2010, 05:40
man, how I would love to graduate to larger tables. Huge battles with masses of troops is what I have always craved in a war-game and that is what sold me on WotR. As soon as I saw the picture in the book of the battle of the pelannor fields I said to myself "If this game can really handle playing THAT, then this is a game I want to play"

I do think, however, that when you get into the 2000-2500 point range, at least, that people are going to start taking the more expensive heroes and formations rather than simply add more base troops. "Oh, we are going to play 2000 points, great, I will use my 1500 point army and add the Fellowship, or Sauron, or a balrog. I wouldn't expect to see radically larger armies until you hit the 3000-3500 point range (which I SOOOOOO want to do, I am really just starting out and I already have a 2000 point moria army, not counting a dragon or two I could scrounge from my miniatures collection. Another 1000 points of goblins, wargs and a spiders would be so awesome.)

In warhammer and 40K, when they need a bigger board they usually just make it wider, but leave it 4' deep for play balance reasons, so you end up with a 12'x4 table instead of 12'x6 or whatever. Do you guys think that WotR would still work ok if the starting distance between armies is made bigger?

Wow, that went on quite a bit longer than I expected.

Insane Psychopath
15-04-2010, 08:58
I have never been interested in going to a GT, as there is a reputation of tournament players sucking the fun out of the game, and fun is the reason I play.

It not really ture. There are some bad gamer out there of course but it like your local gaming store/GW/where ever you game, like I seen worst in my old local GW before I left in 07 people did worst in trem of cheating, etc... While in any tournament I attend in the nine year, I never once had this happen to me.
If anything the GT mainly those in Nottingham are a good laught with it being in Warhammer World & with Bugman bar near by. I alway look forward to attending the 40k GT ever year.

When going to a tournament people need to bare in mind it about meeting new people, fight new armies you rarely fight & it challenge you game wise as people have diffrent play style. Of course doing well as you want a challenge.
If people go in thinking the worst before it started it will most like ruin there experince.

Rep usely start up because someone been a bad losser &/or a rule was point out or they do not really attend a tournament, or they had one bad oppen out of x amount of games & let that ruin there day. If you get one bad oppent you just move on, rememeber there are other great games to be fought out.

But overall my though is, if you never attended a tournament. Go & try one out, see for yourself if you like it or not.

That just my though.


Now, I knew there was a SBG GT, however I noticed for the weekend of the 14th & 15th of August that there is a WOTR GT. Have they decided not to advertise it yet because it is too far in advance, or did I miss something?

The event calander usely put up that the start of the year, though this has been edit which the changies happen with in the GT scene.
You can exspect more info on WotR GT soon, I belive July White Dwarf going to talk about this along with the changies happen with in the WFB & 40k GT's.

So expect info soon, right now all you can do is wait or e-mail the Games Workshop event team to get more info. There e-mail address should be in that blog/site as well.

IP

Nu Fenix
15-04-2010, 19:29
Well, once they officially annouce the WOTR GT and put the tickets up for sale, I will most certainly be going to a GT :)

In regards to points versus size, I recall Warhammer World using 6'x4' tables, so depending on deployment/scenario, going beyond 1500 points may or may not work. As Forgotten Lore mentioned, for 2k some folks may see it as an excuse to just add one expensive formation that pushes them up, that they either couldn't take or would struggle to take at less points.

Insane Psychopath - May I ask how you believe what will be in July's WD? Contacts at HQ/WD? Redshirt? Crystal ball?

Enfid
16-04-2010, 03:08
@ForgottenLore - Several scenarios in the rulebook, if I remembered correctly, have the armies started out REALLY far from each other (I remember the Dwarves' last stand scenario being like that, though I could be wrong).

Gaz Taylor
16-04-2010, 12:28
Insane Psychopath - May I ask how you believe what will be in July's WD? Contacts at HQ/WD? Redshirt? Crystal ball?

The tickets go on sale on 12th July ;)

Insane Psychopath
16-04-2010, 15:01
Insane Psychopath - May I ask how you believe what will be in July's WD? Contacts at HQ/WD? Redshirt? Crystal ball?

The tickets go on sale on 12th July ;)

That & I also know everthing ;) :shifty: If people rememeber two year ago there was a talk about why the UKGT change to the Throne of Skulls.
It ether be said in the WD as point out when ticket are due for release or on the Warhammer World blog, nothing solid just yet, just talk I been hearing :shifty:

IP

Nu Fenix
16-04-2010, 19:39
It is such a shame that July feels so far away. However hopefully with Battlehosts still being relatively fresh it will show that there is true support for the game, and get people focused on the GT.

I don't want to be stood alone in Warhammer World, wondering why no-one else wants to play at the WOTR GT. It won't happen, but at times it feels like that.

Insane Psychopath
04-05-2010, 08:50
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251394&page=4


Just to let you all know, i spoke to Andy Joyce yesterday and mentioned that i noticed there were no longer finals. I got a drawn out yeaah from him followed by a "There's a very big reason for that. You'll find out what it is in next month's white dwarf. Trust me"

Any idea what it is, i'm guessing now a jervis jobby on how the finals made the heats too competitive.

Just a head up for everone thinking enter LotR GT, check out June WD.

IP

Rhamag
04-05-2010, 13:03
In warhammer and 40K, when they need a bigger board they usually just make it wider, but leave it 4' deep for play balance reasons, so you end up with a 12'x4 table instead of 12'x6 or whatever. Do you guys think that WotR would still work ok if the starting distance between armies is made bigger?

I think WoTR can work on tables deeper than 4' because the infantry are faster than those in WFB. Even dwarves can be moving 10" when Doubling and then there's a potential 8" charge on top of that.

Missile weapons are a different story, but they can just skip the first round to Double into position then start shooting from turn 2 onwards, either that or sit back and wait till the enemy comes to you.

In my mind at least, the first turn of a game on a board deeper than 4' would be more like a preliminary turn in a regular game, where formations can change positions in the battle line whilst advancing forwards before getting into missile range. It seems to open up some interesting tactical options. Many accounts of battles I've read, both real and fictional, have the armies advancing and maneuvering before the missile fire starts up.

Ethriel
04-05-2010, 18:12
Well, in this month's WD. They play on a 8x6 board, so it is possible.

Insane Psychopath
04-05-2010, 21:04
Warhammer World for reason of the LotR GT tend to use 6 by 4 due to space & to fit 150 to 160 people into the halls.

I do not see this changing or getting bigger.

Hellfury
05-05-2010, 02:22
Well, in this month's WD. They play on a 8x6 board, so it is possible.

Personally, I think this is the ideal table space for 2K games or above.

Avatar of the Eldar
05-05-2010, 03:07
Personally, I think this is the ideal table space for 2K games or above.

Second that, having just played 1500 on a 6' x 8' last weekend. It was a bit too roomy. Not bad, but we could have easily gone to 3000 if you consider we were only using one Epic Hero and one Legendary Formation apiece.

Plus we could have fattened our formations with additional companies.

Enfid
05-05-2010, 04:41
I think WoTR can work on tables deeper than 4' because the infantry are faster than those in WFB. Even dwarves can be moving 10" when Doubling and then there's a potential 8" charge on top of that.

Missile weapons are a different story, but they can just skip the first round to Double into position then start shooting from turn 2 onwards, either that or sit back and wait till the enemy comes to you.

In my mind at least, the first turn of a game on a board deeper than 4' would be more like a preliminary turn in a regular game, where formations can change positions in the battle line whilst advancing forwards before getting into missile range. It seems to open up some interesting tactical options. Many accounts of battles I've read, both real and fictional, have the armies advancing and maneuvering before the missile fire starts up.

My ideas exactly when I see WotR. The realistic tactical options are what make me fall in love with WotR in the first place. Besides, the writers seem to suggest that it's better to be too roomy than to cram a 3k army in a 6x4.

Though to be honest I think the newest WD battle report could use slightly more room. Another 1 or 2 feet to both sides, making the board 10/12x6 would give a bit more space to maneuver.

ForgottenLore
05-05-2010, 05:03
I thought the same thing.

I really like that it's possible to go deeper as well as wider though.

Seems to me that cavalry might be more powerful on larger tables.

I look forward to playing a game on a large table.