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ColonalKlink
24-02-2010, 00:44
hello all :P

righto on to buisness, i have a little gripe with my fellow warseer..ers, i have read multible posts about how the Necron codex is not compertative anymore... tripe, tonight i played against a Cron army that was to say the least brutal, i can see almost not diference between how they play now and how they played 3rd/4th Ed the list was as follows

1 lord: Pylactry, Res orb
36 warriors
NO immortals
2 units of 5 pariahs??? (no seriously they were devestating)
6 destroyers
1 monolith
3 wraiths

my opponent systamatically took my marines appart, i was very impressed, now if this was a one off fair enough, however its happened to multible people in our group.

anyway long story short, why on earth do alot of you think that the codex is naff, when all TT evidence i have seen points to the contrary?

and last but not least... sorry for the spelling, im awfull

Mannimarco
24-02-2010, 00:51
ok the problem with the necrons is in close combat and the phase out

imagine you get into combat with some necrons, if (or rather when) you beat them they may attempt to fall back and because of their low initiative value they will probably be caught and destroyed bringing you closer to your phase out point

jspyd3rx
24-02-2010, 01:00
One guy in our club castles very well in terrain. He wins just as much as he loses and only keeps getting better.

ColonalKlink
24-02-2010, 01:01
yes the phase out is a big downside, but, if the cron player knows what he is doing then you will only get 1 round of combat before he teleports away, also forgot to mention he had 1 tomb spider.. i ignored it.. my mistake

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 01:03
They only get to field one unit of pariahs. 0-1.

Their army is either slow and has no punch, or it's fast, small, and shoots lots at you.
In either case, the army is very easy to kill. Charge them with anything, and they eventually fall down, without getting a chance to rise back up.

Necrons also have a built-in handicap, that means you win if they drop below 25% dudes left on the table.

There are a couple somewhat competitive builds they can pull, but not many.
With the advent of deep strike, infiltrate, and outflank for everyone, they've suffered even more than tau, since they have nothing cheap to screen them.

Epicenter
24-02-2010, 01:04
2 units of 5 pariahs??? (no seriously they were devestating)


One unit of 10 or he's cheating. Pariahs are a 0-1 choice.

ColonalKlink
24-02-2010, 01:21
hmmm it was defo 2 units.. git, he charged 2 diferent units of tac marines

Dyrnwyn
24-02-2010, 01:27
Problem the 1st: Anti-tank
Anti-tank didn't used to be a problem for Necrons, as every model n the army had limited anti-tank ability The bog standard Warrior stood a chance of taking down everything from a Trukk to a Land Raider. In 3rd and 4th, this remained true. Changes to Glancing hits in 5th ed have removed this army wide ability. Now that Warrior can still affect all vehicles, but stands a precisely 0% chance of outright destroying the vehicle.

Necrons have a single dedicated anti-tank unit, and it's a lascannon on a jetbike. This would be fantastic, if this unit didn't pay through the nose for its abilities, and doesn't even get ablative wounds for its trouble.

The other method to try and sidestep the glancing problem is to simply take more Warriors and try to stack up Weapon Destroyed and Immobilized results. However, this approach runs into

Problem the 2nd: New CC resolution and WBB
In 3rd and 4th ed, CC resolution was based on who won, who outnumbered, and who was under half strength. There were no built in Ld modifiers. So Necrons with thier 20 man units generally outnumbered, generally managed to tie combat, or lose and test on Ld10 to remain. Next Turn they would teleport out via Monolith or Veil of Darkness, and fire on their assaulters. Occasionally the Necrons would be broken and Swept, but it was a rare event. 5th ed has done away with outnumbering and combat is solely decided by wound caused. Now there is a cumulative -1 Ld penalty per wound caused. Now if a serious combat unit hits a unit of Warriors, you can expect to be testing on Ld 6-7 to break, and Ld 4 or 5 is not out of the question.

Necrons cannot WBB from Sweeping Advance. With I2 and modified Ld of 5-8, it's a good chance of them being run down. This means that you can wipe out large clumps of Necrons with no recourse to the Necron player. He cannot use his Veils to pull out of combat, he cannot use his Tomb Spyders to allow his Crons to get up outside of 6", he cannot use his Monoliths to allow a WBB re-roll - he cannot WBB in the first place. This combines with

Problem the 3rd - Phase Out
Phase out was conceived when the idea of an army of Space Marines that got back up was unthinkable. In addition to high points cost for every individual model, the idea of an auto-lose condition was used to balance the Necrons. Now however, with transports being difficult to stop because of the reliance on Gauss glancing, and squads easily wiped to Sweeping Advance, it is easier than ever to trigger Necron's self-hobbling auto-lose condition.

There are other issues, but these are the primary 3 resulting in their much derided state in 5th ed.

Bonzai
24-02-2010, 06:47
I started playing 40k last year, and necrons were my starting army. I'll go out on a limb here and state that for games over 1500, necrons can do just fine. Anything lower than that, then there are valid excuses, as they have expensive units, and need redundancy to function.

Are we top tier? No. But I certainly have won my share of games. I have yet to encounter a list that completely shuts me down, well.... At least not after I learned how it works and how to play against it. I think the biggest gripes are from those who had been playing one way for several rule editions are having trouble adapting. Mass warriors and a monolith are not the way to go anymore. You can't rely on warriors to survive a charge and last till your turn. You actually have to consider your anti-tank options now.

Our biggest issues are a lack of variety, and we have a tough time in low point games. What units we have are very good at what they do. I've posted several battle reports on this site, and is proof enough that we can do just fine.

Xelloss
24-02-2010, 08:20
Problem the 1st: Anti-tank
Anti-tank didn't used to be a problem for Necrons, as every model n the army had limited anti-tank ability The bog standard Warrior stood a chance of taking down everything from a Trukk to a Land Raider. In 3rd and 4th, this remained true. Changes to Glancing hits in 5th ed have removed this army wide ability. Now that Warrior can still affect all vehicles, but stands a precisely 0% chance of outright destroying the vehicle.

I was never really happy with the old gauss rule. The fact that the basic infantry could destroy even the better armored tanks with an happy dice roll didn't really looked "balanced". Glancing can't destroy on the first hit, you have to make two immobilize results - OMG ! More seriously, there are multiple ways of dealing with vehicles with glancing only, it seems like necrons players were too used to their old rule quite too powerful.
I agree on the silliness on the new combat results though.

Cheeslord
24-02-2010, 09:13
I like the current glancing rule (as a Necron player). Its the ease with which those 180+ point warrior squads go down in melee that sucks (also the lack of upgrades and customisation)

mark.

Thanatos_elNyx
24-02-2010, 09:30
I was never really happy with the old gauss rule. The fact that the basic infantry could destroy even the better armored tanks with an happy dice roll didn't really looked "balanced". Glancing can't destroy on the first hit, you have to make two immobilize results - OMG !

Well almost all Basic Infantry can destroy vehicles. Tac Squads can get Missle Launchers, DE Warriors get Dark Lances, etc.

Oh, and you also have to destroy all the weapons on a vehicle before you can destroy it with Glancing hits.

But as the general concensus suggests, the getting owned in combat is the biggest hole in the codex at the moment. Oh how nice it would be to have Stubborn :(

don_mondo
24-02-2010, 09:41
Necrons can still be competitive. We have a local player that has won a couple of tournies over the past year using his, and is on the second tier in our challenge pyramid. Course, he lost tonight to the player on the 1st tier. Oh yeah, that's me............

Dyrnwyn
24-02-2010, 10:15
I was never really happy with the old gauss rule. The fact that the basic infantry could destroy even the better armored tanks with an happy dice roll didn't really looked "balanced".
All varieties of Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Dark Eldar, both flavors of Inquisition and Tau all have troops choices which can destroy the heavier tanks with a lucky roll. Many can also do it from farther away than 24" or more reliably. However, if you do not want that ability, you can choose not to pay for your missile launcher/meltagun/lance/kroot gun/etc, and save points. Necrons do not have that option; thier anti-tank is permanently embedded.


Glancing can't destroy on the first hit, you have to make two immobilize results - OMG !
Only on an unarmed box. Almost every transport in the game comes with at least one gun. You need to destroy all weapons, then immobilize it, then get another Immobilize or Weapon Destroyed to finally wreck the vehicle. Which is often considerably more than two. For a Leman Russ - 4 to 6 damage results needed. For a Battlewagon, 2 to 7 results. For a Sky Ray, a whopping 10 - 12 damage results. And this is all assuming you actually put some damage on the vehicle. Every glancing roll you make only has a 33% chance of getting a lasting damage result. 66% of the results do not contribute to vehicle death.


More seriously, there are multiple ways of dealing with vehicles with glancing only, it seems like necrons players were too used to their old rule quite too powerful.
Destroyingvehicles via glancing does not work unless you can put a BOATLOAD of damage results on target. And frankly, by the time Necrons are putting that much fire on target, you are likely firing with 540 points or more. One squad of Lascannon Devs are cheaper. Heck, 4 Heavy Destroyers are cheaper.


I agree on the silliness on the new combat results though.
Quite. All the Necrons absolutely needed to make them decent in 5th was a line of errata saying "All units with the Necron special rule are Stubborn."

don_mondo
24-02-2010, 10:30
Quite. All the Necrons absolutely needed to make them decent in 5th was a line of errata saying "All units with the Necron special rule are Stubborn."

That would certainly do it, and I can see it from the fluff. They're machines, and while they might have a survival program that can make them run, it should also be able to calculate that they're more likely to survive if they don't run.

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 12:16
Necrons should just be fearless all across the board.
I really can't picture a superior species of robot-aliens, with future tech that looks futuristic 40,000 years into the future, to ever run from anything - especially not since their 'destruction' is only ever temporary.

Deftoneus
24-02-2010, 12:58
Necrons should just be fearless all across the board.
I really can't picture a superior species of robot-aliens, with future tech that looks futuristic 40,000 years into the future, to ever run from anything - especially not since their 'destruction' is only ever temporary.

The problem with that is trying to draw the line between fluff and gameplay, which can not be really done logically.

If that were the case, and you go by fluff, a squad of space marines should be able to walk through 1000 points of anything quite easily.

On a related note, I have an army of necron's as well, and suffer from the handicaps mentioned above. I have not played them for some time though. I find much more enjoyment out of my Space Marines and Guard right now, espeically when i'm facing CC heavy armies like I usually do in my gaming group.

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 14:48
We're not talking about fluff, or anything except the fact that these are killer robots, on a mission to end all life in the galaxy, so their overlords can feast on pain, suffering, and the tortured souls of those killed.

They should be fearless.

Flame Boy
24-02-2010, 14:48
I must agree that Necrons need some tweaking in this regard. I was always under the impression that Necrons weren't supposed to be weak in close combat, I just thought that their damage output was low. Without the tireless ability to soak up casualties, teleport away, and then counterattack, they do seem rather frail.

A Necron Phalanx should be a tough unit to chew through, unless you use a well-equipped specialist assault unit.

I'm no expert in the rules by any means, but I've just read the Stubborn USR, and it seems like it would help prevent them from getting run down, so it seems like you've already solved that problem.

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 14:51
It would also make them way too strong.
Fearless means squads get ground down by dedicated assaults, even if the first turn doesn't destroy them.
Stubborn means they'll be testing on their maximum leadership at all times, so anything that gets into mle with them will never escape, while the 'dead' necrons just get up to rejoin the fight.

King in Yellow
24-02-2010, 15:06
As to shooting at vehicles, do you really have to destroy them completely? For kill points I can understand, but normally all you need to do is keep a vehicle from moving or shooting to take it out of the game.

Also, I love the image of withering gauss fire slowly ripping a vehicle apart.

Thanatos_elNyx
24-02-2010, 15:42
The thing is, that its hard enough to get it to teh stage it isn't moving or shooting for the rest of the game even if not destroyed. The vast majority of results will be stunned or shaken and this means you have to shoot them again next turn to keep them out of the game.


Stubborn means they'll be testing on their maximum leadership at all times, so anything that gets into mle with them will never escape, while the 'dead' necrons just get up to rejoin the fight.
"Never" is a bit extreme.
If they fail their unmodified Ld10 (a 1/12 chance), then they will more than likely get swept and your assault unit can try the same again next turn.
And also the Necrons will probably not leave you eat their unit for more than one turn, they will teleport out and your assault unit is free to attack again.

Though if they get Stubborn they may get a Ld reduction;
Stubborn Ld 9 means they get swept 1/6 assaults in which they lose.

ColonalKlink
24-02-2010, 16:49
so everyone's gripe is they are too fragile in CC, while a fair comment i fail to see how this makes whole army uncompetative?

CrownAxe
24-02-2010, 16:53
so everyone's gripe is they are too fragile in CC, while a fair comment i fail to see how this makes whole army uncompetative?

We don't get WBB when we die from Sweeping Advance (which also removes the already downed necrons from the unit)

Then we Phase Out

It's the two together that makes us suck

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 17:09
And the army gets to pick between being very small and fast, or slightly larger, but very slow.

Let's not get into why stubborn for necron warriors is bad.
I've played them, and against them, since their release. It used to take ages to kill them in 3rd, and it only got slightly better in 4th. Now they go poof way too fast, which is a problem that being fearless would solve - without making them the ultimate tarpit.

Dyrnwyn
24-02-2010, 18:13
so everyone's gripe is they are too fragile in CC, while a fair comment i fail to see how this makes whole army uncompetative?
As mentioned, it's not just being bad in CC, it's being easy to win combats against them, Sweeping Advance denying WBB, and thus easily triggering Phase Out, meaning the whole army poofs away and the Necrons automatically lose. Necrons are the only army in the game that come with their own special auto-lose condition. You don't have to table Necrons, you only have to kill 75% of them, and then they vanish. And that's 75% of Necrons, not 75% of their army, so you can ignore the Tomb Spyders, Monoliths, Scarabs, Pariahs, and C'tan.



And the army gets to pick between being very small and fast, or slightly larger, but very slow.

Let's not get into why stubborn for necron warriors is bad.
I've played them, and against them, since their release. It used to take ages to kill them in 3rd, and it only got slightly better in 4th. Now they go poof way too fast, which is a problem that being fearless would solve - without making them the ultimate tarpit.

Stubborn would make them function almost exactly like they did in 4th ed. Taking hits, losing combat in the first round, possibly getting run down, but if not, teleporting out. Yes, it would make them slightly stronger in the Ld department than then, because now Psyker Battle Squads and other Ld Affecting Auras would no longer affect them, but they'd still have a chance to be run down, which with Fearless they wouldn't. The last thing that 40k needs is another Fearless army. Just to make Pinning even more worthless.

And ultimate tarpit? Really? What Necron player WANTS to have his shooty units useless because of combats? Hardly anybody takes Flayed Ones and Wraiths have a small enough squad size that this isn't an issue, so you must be talking about Warriors. No Necron Player wants his Warriors in assault where they're wasting their potential. Thay'll stay in just long enough to teleport out, not sit there forever tarpitting your unit.

Really, to make them identical to 4th ed, they'd need their own special rule that only prevents them from suffering negative Ld modifiers from combat resolution. But that's a little complex for patch job errata.

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 19:22
ok for cc with necrons try this: 10 flayed ones joined by the lord (res orb, GoF, lightning field, +20pnts of whatever) followed very closely by 10 pariahs. see what happens. i bet it works out well for the necron player.

Lord Damocles
24-02-2010, 19:24
ok for cc with necrons try this: 10 flayed ones joined by the lord (res orb, GoF, lightning field, +20pnts of whatever) followed very closely by 10 pariahs. see what happens. i bet it works out well for the necron player.
You're aware that this is ~700 points, right..?

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 19:37
Flayed Ones- Terrifying Visage= Enemies must pass Ld or can only hit on D6=6.
Necron Lord- GoF= ALL ENEMIES loose bonus attack for charge.
ALL ENEMIES suffer -1 Ld while in CC /w lord.
Lightning Field= 1 S3 hit for every wound suffered by unit in CC.
Pariahs- Souless= Any enemy within 12in Ld reduced to 7.
Warscythe= NO SAVES against them.

So you wind up with an group that is very difficult to even hit in CC(Ld6 and must pass check to hit). Then, IF they are hit, they still need to be wounded. Average tougness when joined buy pariahs goes up. When the group does receive wounds, Lightning field strike them back as many times as they were wounded. Plus all the normal attacks the necron player would get normaly. I call it a task force. Very scary especially if you throw another lord with Gof and some wraiths in there as a QRF (Quick Reaction Force) when the stuff gets big!

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 19:40
You're aware that this is ~700 points, right..?

nope sorry i never saw that. but on that note, never play necrons in less than 1000 point games. it never works out for the necrons!:D

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 19:44
oh wait... i get what you are saying about the points. 745 to be exact. but thats the price you pay for playing the crons. $$$. but the price should be worth it

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 19:46
It's not.
Trust me.

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 19:55
i use it. its great, especialy against eldar. not quite as good for marines but it is the best CC formation i have seen against them.


It's not.
Trust me.

HAHA! is that the best critisism you can give "it's not. Trust me" you will have to do better than that! lol:D

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 20:06
I'm sure your 'cc formation' would have a great time against my 'rc formation' battlesuits.

Actually, I can buy twice the number of battlesuits for those points.

Colonial Rifle
24-02-2010, 20:07
You're aware that this is ~700 points, right..?

LOL! I'd love to see these "super units" go up against your bog-standard Guard army. Here is a little bit more mathhammer ... ;)

2 Battle-cannon pie plates = 1st turn phase out .

tazguy95
24-02-2010, 20:09
That would certainly do it, and I can see it from the fluff. They're machines, and while they might have a survival program that can make them run, it should also be able to calculate that they're more likely to survive if they don't run.

This reminds me of a battle I had, which ended up with me having about 3 wraiths zooming around, and about 17 warriors in close combat with the only unit my opponent had left: Ghazgkull with 1 wound. He killed one model and I phased out, and I was winning!!!! Damn you phase out!!!!!

VonManstein
24-02-2010, 20:09
It's not.
Trust me.
If you wont trust him, trust me. It's not.

People who have stories about 'how a local player always do well', should realize that skill has quite a bit influence in 40k. The fact that I can probably win against quite some people with 1500 points of Chaos against 1700 points of *Insert powerfull army here*, doesnt mean that Chaos is OP: its means I'm OP. No wait that sounds arrogant and wrong: it means the other player just is a bad player.

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 20:10
I'm sure your 'cc formation' would have a great time against my 'rc formation' battlesuits.

Actually, I can buy twice the number of battlesuits for those points.

remember now, that only 745pt of a 2000 pt army

i like tau, i really do battle suits are cool... if i played any other army, it would probably be tau! but i have never lost to tau either. destroyers kill tau dead!:chrome:

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 20:18
The sad thing is, a tau gunline would shoot them all down before they even got within charge range.

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 20:18
well, the players i play with are usually the GW employees here in milwaukee. im shure thier skill lvl is OP. but mines not to bad either. if you dont belive me- try its a good set up. its costly but its neccesery for a necron army to have something like that in a game were almost every other army is geared towards CC. yes this formation will eventually die, but in the meantime, the rest of the army is causing havoc as well! also i forgot to mention, ther is usualy 1-2 (S6, T6, W2, A3)tomb spiders in front blocking LoS and soaking up damage. like i said before, its a TASK FORCE.

lowmanjason
24-02-2010, 20:21
The sad thing is, a tau gunline would shoot them all down before they even got within charge range.

until the monolith deepstrikes in the middle of the tau gunline. for every measure there is a counter measure. we can do this all day long.:p

Lord Damocles
24-02-2010, 20:23
we can do this all day long.:p
Well, you can't insofar as from this hypothetical 2000pt Necron army (why are we not using 1500 again?), you've now used ~1000pts without having any Troops so far (360pts minimun).

A sensible 1360ish points of just about anything played competently will most likely pound this into oblivion.

WinglessVT2
24-02-2010, 20:32
"yes this formation will eventually die, but in the meantime, the rest of the army is causing havoc as well!"

You have an army backing that 700~ points of footslogging suck up?

lowmanjason
25-02-2010, 00:41
ok let me show you non belivers that its possible
NL- res orb, GoF, LF, Phy
NL- dest body, Res orb, phase shifter
2x10 warriors
1x10 flayed ones
1x7 pariahs
1 tomb spider
2x3 wraiths
1x5 destroyers
1 monolith
= 1983pts

THEY ALL SUPPORT EACH OTHER ei TASK FORCE

WinglessVT2
25-02-2010, 00:52
2x1 junior commander, twin bodyguard. All have plasma rifle, missilepod, multi-tracker, and the bodyguard have targeting arrays.

3x3 crisis suits with plasma rifles, missilepods, and multi-trackers.

6 firewarriors.

3x10 kroot. Hounds as points allow.

6 pathfinders. Give their blinged-up cab to the firewarriors.

3 hammerheads.

Even with all this, I still have points left to spend, and more shots per turn than you have models.
Your army will get destroyed in the first turn.

burad
25-02-2010, 00:56
ok let me show you non belivers that its possible
NL- res orb, GoF, LF, Phy
NL- dest body, Res orb, phase shifter
2x10 warriors
1x10 flayed ones
1 tomb spider
2x3 wraiths
1x5 destroyers
1 monolith
= 1983pts

THEY ALL SUPPORT EACH OTHER ei TASK FORCE

Where's the pariahs?

WinglessVT2
25-02-2010, 00:57
He couldn't afford them, since he wanted to have an 'army' there to back up his flayed ones and combat lords.

Morgrad
25-02-2010, 01:16
3 x 30 gargoyles with furious charge and toxin sacs
Parasite of Mortrex mixed in with them for synapse

6 flappy bonesword warriors
6 flappy bonesword warriors

3 zoeys, spore
3 zoeys, spore

14 termagants
14 termagants

Reminder to the Necron player: I don't need my troops to survive to take objectives, I just need to phase you out.

Zoeys kill the destroyers, everything else spanks the "battlegroup" easily, and ignores anything without the Necron Special Rule.

Necrons should be good, but they aren't. Phase Out makes them useless because while you have to grab objectives to beat me, all I need to do is kill Necrons.

Bauknefer
25-02-2010, 01:43
I like the idea of the task force. But if you go CC go with wraiths. Use your fast attack slots for 3 units of wraiths. take 1 lord with destro body 1 on foot with VoD both with orbs and scythes take like 40 warriors and ofc a mono then you have mobile combat = wraiths and destro lord, mobile light arms fire = 20 warriors and foot lord. And i would also use as many heavy destroyers as you can afford with that.

Raxmei
25-02-2010, 03:23
Flayed Ones- Terrifying Visage= Enemies must pass Ld or can only hit on D6=6.
Necron Lord- GoF= ALL ENEMIES loose bonus attack for charge.
ALL ENEMIES suffer -1 Ld while in CC /w lord.
Lightning Field= 1 S3 hit for every wound suffered by unit in CC.
Pariahs- Souless= Any enemy within 12in Ld reduced to 7.
Warscythe= NO SAVES against them.

So you wind up with an group that is very difficult to even hit in CC(Ld6 and must pass check to hit). Then, IF they are hit, they still need to be wounded. Average tougness when joined buy pariahs goes up. When the group does receive wounds, Lightning field strike them back as many times as they were wounded. Plus all the normal attacks the necron player would get normaly. I call it a task force. Very scary especially if you throw another lord with Gof and some wraiths in there as a QRF (Quick Reaction Force) when the stuff gets big!Average toughness doesn't apply in this situation. Attacks are allocated to units, and the Pariahs are a separate unit.

If Pariahs are involved in this combat the enemy can allocate their attacks solely to the Pariah unit if they wish and make the Flayed One terrifying visage rule inapplicable. That would also stop the Lightning Field since the Lord is part of the Flayed One unit, not the Pariahs. The enemy can also allocate attacks directly to the Lord, which stops Terrifying Visage but obviously not Lightning Field.

A more fundamental problem is that what you have here is a very expensive collection of 21 guys who want to get in assaults but move at infantry speed. This tactic would not work well against an enemy that has options other than rush straight into assault with the nearest enemy.

lowmanjason
25-02-2010, 03:31
Where's the pariahs?

whoops sorry!
x7 pariahs!

lowmanjason
25-02-2010, 03:36
Average toughness doesn't apply in this situation. Attacks are allocated to units, and the Pariahs are a separate unit.

If Pariahs are involved in this combat the enemy can allocate their attacks solely to the Pariah unit if they wish and make the Flayed One terrifying visage rule inapplicable. That would also stop the Lightning Field since the Lord is part of the Flayed One unit, not the Pariahs. The enemy can also allocate attacks directly to the Lord, which stops Terrifying Visage but obviously not Lightning Field.

A more fundamental problem is that what you have here is a very expensive collection of 21 guys who want to get in assaults but move at infantry speed. This tactic would not work well against an enemy that has options other than rush straight into assault with the nearest enemy.

good point on the toughness but pariahs come in only if needed. they only need to be within 12 in to get the effect. the lord can be positioned in the unit were he cant be atacked.

blake
25-02-2010, 03:39
Deciever
Lord (resorb/viel)
6x - Immortals
10x - Warriors
10x - Warriors
5x - Destroyers
5x - Destroyers
Monolith
Monolith

Bout as competitive as i can make a 2k 'cron army.
And honestly the deceiver isn't really all that anymore. New Tyranids would tear this list up, imho.
Maybe swap out a Monolith for another unit of 5x Destroyers and the Deceiver for another Lord with Deceiver body or something...blah.

Necron's can and do win, but the new 5th edition rules do not favor them.

lowmanjason
25-02-2010, 03:39
He couldn't afford them, since he wanted to have an 'army' there to back up his flayed ones and combat lords.

your a sad sad individual:rolleyes:

shaso_iceborn
25-02-2010, 03:48
"Never" is a bit extreme. If they fail their unmodified Ld10 (a 1/12 chance), then they will more than likely get swept and your assault unit can try the same again next turn.
And also the Necrons will probably not leave you eat their unit for more than one turn, they will teleport out and your assault unit is free to attack again.

Though if they get Stubborn they may get a Ld reduction;
Stubborn Ld 9 means they get swept 1/6 assaults in which they lose.

Just like to point out that it's actually a 1/6 chance 11 or 12 is a fail so 1/6 chance of fail 2/12 = 1/6

CrownAxe
25-02-2010, 04:16
Just like to point out that it's actually a 1/6 chance 11 or 12 is a fail so 1/6 chance of fail 2/12 = 1/6

fail math

there 3 ways to get 11 or 12 (6,6 5,6 6,5) out of 36 possibilities (its 6^2, not 6x2). 3/36 = 1/12

shaso_iceborn
25-02-2010, 04:25
fail math

there 3 ways to get 11 or 12 (6,6 5,6 6,5) out of 36 possibilities (its 6^2, not 6x2). 3/36 = 1/12

You're right just had jaw surgery and on meds so am not thinking right. My bad.

lowmanjason
25-02-2010, 04:49
Necron's can and do win, but the new 5th edition rules do not favor them.

i 2nd that

senorcardgage
25-02-2010, 05:30
Regarding stubborn, I think that would be pretty ridiculous. LD10 stubborn is just too good!

The Ginger Ninja
25-02-2010, 07:21
Regarding stubborn, I think that would be pretty ridiculous. LD10 stubborn is just too good!

So is a lot of things. why can't we have a good thing?
Maybe It could be a little broken, but GW could make LD9 or even LD8 standard.

VonManstein
25-02-2010, 08:14
Meh giving them stubborn with Ld 10 is actually less broken than its now heh. Its pitty the codex is so bad, I would play them if they were are little better. (liking having a chance against good armies if I play better than my oponent, not needing my oponent to have brain damage)

Thanatos_elNyx
25-02-2010, 09:31
LD10 stubborn is just too good!

Yeah, thats why I would suggest LD9 Stubborn.

But surely you agree that things can't stay as they are?
Getting Phased Out because all your Necron units get swept so easily is less fun than it looks. :(