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jeroen84
23-05-2005, 01:37
Somewhere this year, after Ive finished painting my Tau and Deamonhunters for 40k, I'd like to finally get a Warhammer army.


The thing just is, I am very undecisive of what kind of army I want to start with. Note that I dont care about how forgiving an army list is or how difficult to play it is. I'll learn and adapt. Just two things are important to me and that is that Ive always loved the magic aspect of any fantasy game. And that I generally like to stay from "overpopular" armies that everyone plays. Also, if there's a way I could create a list with not "too" many models it would be great, because although I can paint fairly well, its very hard for me to create the time to do so.

These armies would be in my list to considerate:

-Dark Elves
-High Elves (minus point: Elves in dresses.. x.x)
-Hordes of Chaos (minus point: Ive never really been attracted to chaos, but its magic.)
-Lizardmen (minus point: big fat toads)
-Ogre Kingdoms (dont know much about them)
-Skaven (similar to chaos I guess)
-Tomb Kings (minor: many skeleton models)
-Vampire Counts (minor: many skeleton models)
-Wood Elves
-Pure spirits list?
-Lustria list? (Would those be tournament friendly in the future?)


I know I have high demands for myself, but its just that no warhammer army really gives me "I want to get this army" feeling, even though I really like the warhammer game in itself.

Jeroen

User Name
23-05-2005, 03:36
Most armies have magic to use. Go to your local fantasy gaming groupe and see what sort of armies are played as popularity varies from place to place. You probably dont want to do chaos as they are quite popular. Other than that just pick an army on the modles you like best.

ForHire
23-05-2005, 07:03
If you are looking for an army that fulfills all your criteria in one fell swoop try making a magic heavy Dogs of War army.

You can be magic-ky in several fun filled ways. If having a character is your thing you can take Lucrezzia Belladonna as your leader, throw in a Dark Emissary and have a nicely evil themed army with 10 power dice. Or, you can lighten the points load a little and make an Albion themed Truthsayer army. Or even use some Hireling Wizards to up your magical ability.

The second criteria you'll fill is in model numbers. You can easily make an army that is full of flavor that doesn't need masses of troops. Throw in some Ogres, or maybe the Giants and you can field a relatively small force.

Last but certainly not least, you'll be playing an army that will truly be unique to you and your playing style. The Dogs have so many varied options that you can build an army full of your personal character that it will be unmatched by really any other army. Add to that the fact that you'll probably be the only Dogs player in a hundred mile radius.

jeroen84
23-05-2005, 10:55
I understand that any army can be magic heavy depending on the hero choices.

Dogs of War never really attracted me. I find it have not much character as it feels like just a bunch of troops thrown together. Also wouldnt it be weird to see undead and humans march side by side? Oo Also, isnt there a problem about that they dont have an armybook yet? I mean usually such a list is underpowered compared to released armybooks right?

I'd like to play Wood Elves, but with the new book release, Im afraid everyone and their nephew will play them because of their nice models.

Further, Ive narrowed it down to I think:
-Lizardmen
-Tomb Kings
-Tzeench demon army
-Skaven

Negafex
23-05-2005, 12:18
lizardmen are very well balanced with lots of attacks, good strength and toughness, and good saves as well as very good magic and awesome special characters. their only real fault is a low low horribly low initiative of usually 1 or 2 and can some times have a high point cost, although not as high as ogre kingdoms

Frecus
23-05-2005, 13:59
I'd suggest the tzeentch daemons!

You'll need to convert three-quarters of the army, but it'll be worth it!

Half your units will be able to cast spells by themselves (horrors) and you'll have 1-2 potent spellcasters toting a total of 6-8 powerdice in addition to that, could be more.

Not a lot of models, but great painting opportunities await with all colors being viable!

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

Riddy
23-05-2005, 14:43
I understand that any army can be magic heavy depending on the hero choices.

Dogs of War never really attracted me. I find it have not much character as it feels like just a bunch of troops thrown together. Also wouldnt it be weird to see undead and humans march side by side? Oo Also, isnt there a problem about that they dont have an armybook yet? I mean usually such a list is underpowered compared to released armybooks right?

I'd like to play Wood Elves, but with the new book release, Im afraid everyone and their nephew will play them because of their nice models.

Further, Ive narrowed it down to I think:
-Lizardmen
-Tomb Kings
-Tzeench demon army
-Skaven


Well on the comment on DoW not being characterful, it doesn't matter as you can easily create your own background and character for the army, as they have soo many units and choices you can have an evil army a good army, they can be from araby, they can be from Albion, they can be the body guard of a rich prince or a band of freedom fighters lead by a characterful peasant risen from the masses.

But anyway you are correct about the Wood Elves, every man and his dog, plus all his friends, are going to be playing them, i have personally being waiting since the release of 6th ed. for the Woodies to come out only to realise about a month ago that they will be far to popular, as i too like to stay away from overpopular armies i am very dissapointed.

On your list of armies to collect i would remove skaven due to you not having alot of painting time, a horde army like skaven will take ages to paint. Of the other three Lizardmen are the best army for a beginner as you can build the army to be good in any aspect of the game, so you can easily and quickly learn all the rules, but as you dont care abaout this i would say go for Tomb Kings, they are easy to paint (Bleach bone, brown ink and a drybrush are your best friends ;) ) and they are a highly tactical army so even though they will be difficult to play with in the beginning after you have played them for a while you should be able to switch onto any army and handle it effectivley.

Hope that helps :)

Angelripper
23-05-2005, 18:44
Lizardman are definitely the easy-to-play Army. They are Hardfighters with good protection and damn Powerfull wizards. You can either play the smashing Close Combat variant, An Saurus Oldblood accompanied with Scar Veterans and tons of Skinks and Saurus Warriors or the Magic Heavy Slaanforce. With lots of Skink Priests an some nice Stegadons or Terradons. Worked out well for me couple of times.
The Tomb Kings on the other hand are hard to play even tgough they have some good magic help. Little offensive Magic power but well used strong support spells for the troops.
Tzeentch Chaos is Expensive in Points but the little buggers are tough and hard to kill. I think they are challenging because you are mostly outnumbered.
Skaven are a very funny army. They kill eiter all they enemys or they burn themself to the ground. Only the painting sessions are a pain in the butt!

Griefbringer
24-05-2005, 09:51
Dogs of War never really attracted me. I find it have not much character as it feels like just a bunch of troops thrown together. Also wouldnt it be weird to see undead and humans march side by side? Oo Also, isnt there a problem about that they dont have an armybook yet? I mean usually such a list is underpowered compared to released armybooks right?


DoW can be quite characterful - their old army book was full of truely excellent background material.

As for the lack of army book, all it means is that you can get the army list for free on PDF, instead of needing to shelf out a pocket load of cash for the book. And they are not really underpowered, perhaps just a bit limited in their choices.

Scythe
24-05-2005, 12:02
I wouldn't do skaven if you have limited painting time. A reasonable skaven army is far over 100 troops in a standard 2000 pts army. Lizzardmen, TK and Tzeentch Daemons all fullfill your criteria quite nicely. TK may be not that small army wise, but skeletons paint up fast and easily. All 3 armies have a unique playing style, tough Tzeentch daemons have limited variety. On the other hand, you don't see Tzeentch Daemons in every gaming group, so if you want something rather unique, I'd go for them.

Rövhalt
24-05-2005, 12:15
I'd go with tombkings, with them you can go an all mounted army. A couple of Heavy Horsmen (I love that, Heavy Horsemen. Ha!) Chariots and Light Horsmen. Not too many models.

MarcoPollo
24-05-2005, 17:16
I think that Tomb Kings are a good army to learn the finer points of magic and movement. The support spells really cater to these aspects of the game. To be successful with any undead army you really need to learn how to max out the autobreak special rule with them. That means lots of skeletons. I really like the theme of the Tomb Kings and my buddy plays them and he has them painted up spectacularly.

The Lizards are excellent at learning the combat almost anyphase of the game. The armylist can be tailored to have them do just about any thing well. The points can be costly however. I find that my most successful army has been the lizards. I have them "min/max" now to win fit my style of play and win 65% of the time.

For the old 40K player, the lizards may be a good army to start with as you will be used to much of the strategy regarding skirmishing that this army does well. In fact, some people have used a completely skirmishing Lizard army with success. Not me but some have.

Griefbringer
25-05-2005, 08:26
A couple of Heavy Horsmen (I love that, Heavy Horsemen. Ha!)

Remember that they were the heaviest cavalry around by the time they were alive (with the exception of Elven cavalry). Just because some uppity Old Worlders have decided to put on some barding and plate armour is not enough to make tomb kings change their name. :cool:

jeroen84
25-05-2005, 23:30
Hmm, for Tzeench demon army. Can I use the normal armybook and not the special Demon Legion? The little what Ive read about those is that they are really not diverse at all and that all lists kinda look the same. With the normal list I can still add other units? What would you suggest?

Right now Im doubting between Tomb Kings and Lizardmen.(and small chance chaos) I dont care about playability, or playing styles, as I can usually addapt pretty quick and see an armies strengths and weaknesses to play with.

Im afraid that with TK's I might get bored with the skeletons look(even if its easy to paint) and character. With Lizardmen Im afraid that the Slann is just a huge point sink for 'just' a wizard. I know he's a really good one, but he's still a big pointsink.

Scythe
26-05-2005, 08:08
You can use the standard HoC army book to create a Tzeentch only daemon army, but you're really limiting yourself. The daemonic legion list gives you additional troops, more gifts and generally makes daemonic only armies playable instead of just worthless. If you start a daemon only army, I'd definitely use the SoC list.

Griefbringer
26-05-2005, 09:16
Im afraid that with TK's I might get bored with the skeletons look(even if its easy to paint) and character. With Lizardmen Im afraid that the Slann is just a huge point sink for 'just' a wizard. I know he's a really good one, but he's still a big pointsink.

As for Slann, remember that you do not _have_ to take that bloated floating frog if you do not wish to.

jeroen84
26-05-2005, 16:06
As for Slann, remember that you do not _have_ to take that bloated floating frog if you do not wish to.
Except that I do want a healthy amount of magic in whatever list I'll choose. :p

Scythe
26-05-2005, 16:11
In that case, you'll be stuck with a slann indeed. But in that case remember Tzeentch magic users are also quite an investment (the normal ones; not counting the bound spells of horrors) pts wise.