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iluvatar18
15-03-2010, 00:34
So recently I've wanted to add 50 conscripts to my IG army for a mere 200 points. But then I realized that for 50 more points, I could add a normal 50 guardsmen to my IG army all put into one squad (whatever the rule is). With the normal guardsmen, I'd have a better WS and BS, a better leadership, more diversity in non-kill point missions, and special weapons if I so desired. (but for guys that are literally just a meat shied for a meat shield, I doubt they'd have special weapons)

So I ask you Warseer, are conscripts worth the points? What are your experiences with them? Good or bad.

Sigis
15-03-2010, 00:42
Ive had a 50 man unit of conscripts do some pretty sweet stuff in game but on a normal basis id just pay 1 more point per model for the increased WS, BS and Ld. 50 guardsmen with a 5 man unit behind it giving it an order a turn is really sweet. make sure u dont forget the vox caster!

Stormfather
15-03-2010, 00:52
Send in the next wave is the defining feature of conscripts, it lets you recycle a damaged unit, redeploy to your table edge, or clear the conscripts out of the way of other units. But its expensive, because you need chenkov.

For about the price of 50 guardsmen, you could get 50 conecripts AND a priest, but thats still not going to cut it in CC with most other 250 pt CC units.

Except for funfactor, my moneys with the regular guardsmen. If they could take a commissar, they could be a decent objective tarpit, but they can't, and a Lord Commissar is going to vault the price into the 270-300 range (before priest!)

SandQueen
15-03-2010, 00:53
So recently I've wanted to add 50 conscripts to my IG army for a mere 200 points. But then I realized that for 50 more points, I could add a normal 50 guardsmen to my IG army all put into one squad (whatever the rule is). With the normal guardsmen, I'd have a better WS and BS, a better leadership, more diversity in non-kill point missions, and special weapons if I so desired. (but for guys that are literally just a meat shied for a meat shield, I doubt they'd have special weapons)

So I ask you Warseer, are conscripts worth the points? What are your experiences with them? Good or bad.

I only have had one experience with them.

Me: Rocking an Avatar and some Harlequins.
Him: 50 Conscripts and a Commissar Lord

stuck in combat for three turns. Total tarpit that cost me all of my Harlequins and half the wounds on my Avatar before I managed to kill the Commissar and scatter them.

bigcheese76
15-03-2010, 00:54
Unless used with send in the next wave in a huge apocalypse game, conscripts are really not worth the points, you are much better taking 5 combined infantry squads.

e2055261
15-03-2010, 00:56
Since it takes me that long to paint even one 10 man squad of regular guardsmen, I'd be a little disappointed to see 50 of them wiped out in a turn or two (all that time painting them wasted!). Consrcipts are not for me. Regular guardsmen are meat shields anyway and as you already pointed out they're not that much more expensive than conscripts. Conscripts: not for me.

Bunnahabhain
15-03-2010, 01:05
Lasguns don't kill things, Orders and special weapons do.

Conscripts don't get one, and probably don't pass the other. Even if they weren't almost as expensive as standard guradsmen, the lack of options is a massive flaw.

Chem-Dog
15-03-2010, 01:11
Ive had a 50 man unit of conscripts do some pretty sweet stuff in game but on a normal basis id just pay 1 more point per model for the increased WS, BS and Ld. 50 guardsmen with a 5 man unit behind it giving it an order a turn is really sweet. make sure u dont forget the vox caster!

Conscripts can't have a Vox :(


Conscripts can be fun but they need the proximity of harder individuals to make the most of them. Don't forget that giving them Without Number does require you to include Chenkov. The main advantage of the rule isn't the recycling, but the manner in which you can do it, you can remove them from play effectively stranding eager enemy assaulters to the mercies of the big guns of your army and you can even consider sacrificing a unit of Conscripts to effect an emergency redeploy.
Commissar Lord:- Stubborn and Ld 10, excellent for ignoring the horrendous casualties they'll inevitably encounter. Also adds a small amount of bite in CC.
Ministorum Priest:- Re-rolls are best used on the guys with the poorest stats, the Priest can make a Conscript squad perform really well in a combat.
Primaris Psyker:- The Nightshroud power. Makes your enemy risk losing it's shooting or chance a shot at another target....the joke is, you don't care if the squad gets shot up...it's conscripts.
Officers:- Any of the orders available to the Officers have applications in use with the Conscripts...Imagine Bring It Down on 50 conscripts staring a Daemonprince in the eye...



Having said all that a formed up IG Platoon does everything a Conscript squad can do (except for the recycling) and better. Add in Power weapons for the Sarges and you've got a whole mess of Powerweapon attacks that will invariably survive the trudge across ground to close with the enemy.
Add in Meltaguns for some anti everything fire. If you want the squad to objective sit, give them heavy weapons.
Buy a single Voxcaster for increased order reliability, Add in a Commissar (up to five if you really feel it necessary) for increased staying power AND additional PW attacks.


I suppose I'm with the platoon option rather than conscripts, they seem to be able to out perform the Conscripts in all but one special character dependant way.

EDIT+++++ Ninja'd to the power of seven!


Lasguns don't kill things, Orders and special weapons do.

One infantry squad, rapid fire range, no orders. Special and heavy missed or failed to wound, lasguns aced an unwounded CSM Daemonprince of Khorne, I won that battle, even though I got tabled :D

ehlijen
15-03-2010, 02:14
What conscripts have over regular guardsmen:

-Send in the next wave, though as said, this makes them more expensive (but it also makes them more useful)
-Lower cost. Not just because 50 conscripts are 50 points less than 50 guardsmen, but also because you can tack those 50 conscripts onto an existing platoon rather than having to buy another command squad just for them. So for 480 points you can have one command squad and 2 50 men pulks rather than 2 command squads and that for 560 points. In those numbers, individual skill is barely important anyway. WS 2 or 3 won't matter to most things that you aren't shooting anyway and the ld of both is not suited for those tasks without outside boost anyway. Infantry squads get cheaper line commisars, but the difference in points is easily made up by the commisar lords superior abilities (he can actually detach before you charge and still give them his bubble if you're worried about him getting killed).

Basically, you take conscripts if you want your infantry squads to actually be able to maneouver and claim objectives. You take 50 man infantry squads if you want to leave all that other stuff to veteran squads and aren't using your platoons for anything else anyway.

iluvatar18
15-03-2010, 02:22
Thanks all for your speedy responses. It appears that conscripts do have their strengths over other guardsmen. (if you can call them that)

But if you had the points for only one of the conscript aids, would you get a lord commissar, ministorium priest, or chenkov?

Bunnahabhain
15-03-2010, 02:26
Depends. If you're going infantry heavy, then Chekov is useful for orders, stubborn etc.

If you're going mixed, the priest, as it's the cheap option.

Reflex
15-03-2010, 02:56
I used to run 50 conscripts with 5 flamers in the old codex.

now i run that with normal squads and combine them and slap a commissar lord in the buck. a very nice tar pit unit that when facing a unit or 2 can throw out some nice shots and flame. also, they are more effective then you think. if people ignore it, they pay the price when 50 guardsman tarpit several units, if they dont however, it give you time to maneuver your armour and deal the damage you need.

my buddies catachan list runs 2 infantry platoon and 2 vet squads. incredibly effective when the platoons combine and create tarpit units, even against mech armies.

jason_sation
15-03-2010, 03:59
Yeah, I really wanted to do Conscripts with this Codex until I got the Codex. If they could take flamers (at the same cost as Guardsmen) or have a Commissar, it might be worth it. Even then, I'd probably still want them to have "Send in the next wave" for very cheap or free (since you need Chenkov), or at regular price without Chenkov being needed.

I would like to see a Concript Kill Team just for laughs though!!! :)