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bishamon_o
18-03-2010, 13:52
it seems like chaos can only afford budget bionics or something.
heres what i mean:

chaplain casius: i lost half my body and had it replaced with bionics, i now have toughness 6 and feel no pain

"ironhand" straken : i lost half my body and had it replaced with bionics, it gives me strength 6 toughness 4, and i attack like a monstrous creature

Huron Blackheart: i lost half my body and had it replaced with bionics, it gave me..... err.....ehm.... well i look cool

(note, his heavy flamer doesnt count, as thats his powerfist and not something from his bionic body, and even if it was, its still pretty lame by comparison)

Condottiere
18-03-2010, 14:26
You'll find the 40K section below the Fantasy one.

GrimZAG
18-03-2010, 14:42
it seems like chaos can only afford budget bionics or something.
heres what i mean:

chaplain casius: i lost half my body and had it replaced with bionics, i now have toughness 6 and feel no pain

"ironhand" straken : i lost half my body and had it replaced with bionics, it gives me strength 6 toughness 4, and i attack like a monstrous creature

Huron Blackheart: i lost half my body and had it replaced with bionics, it gave me..... err.....ehm.... well i look cool

(note, his heavy flamer doesnt count, as thats his powerfist and not something from his bionic body, and even if it was, its still pretty lame by comparison)

Fair call,

but it's a cheap fluff way to explain ridiculous statistics. It's easy with chaos, you can just say that they are blessed by the chaos gods, and going by you're logic then Huron probably isn't super blessed...

Wicksy
18-03-2010, 14:59
Maybe huron got cheapo, cut price bionics? Maybe the guy that installed them had a bad day?

Sorry.....but yeah, Huron looks to have been gyped. Maybe when the next edition of the codex comes out that'll be explained.

Eldoriath
18-03-2010, 15:04
Straken is a special case though, Catachans are quite resilient to begin with and then he got admantium bionics after a land-shark ate a part opf him, whereas he killed it back with his teeth. So T4 is not so unprobable, and the S6 is a re-write of the fact that he has a powerfist that strikes at initative, and then he got a boost against vehicles for some reason. S Straken isn't that far-fetched really, but I totally agree with cassius, suddenly he is as resilient as a avatar/hive tyrant/carnifex :wtf:

sigur
18-03-2010, 15:34
Sorry, why are we discussing this? Grimzag gave us the answer


but it's a cheap fluff way to explain ridiculous statistics.

and the rest is gameplay. :) It's not confusing at all, these rules don't even pretend to be any sort of similar bionics.

The pestilent 1
18-03-2010, 16:15
Different levels of quality.

/ Wizard did it

Sir_Turalyon
18-03-2010, 18:22
Straken's and Cassius' could afford to be more picky; both were operated in comfort after the war was won, were treated at proper facilities, there was access to resources of Imperium and they were war heroes so their doctors could pick best bits for them. Huron's bionics were improvisation needed to save his life, knocked together from what was left to remains of his chapter while they were fleeing retribution in few ships.

sliganian
18-03-2010, 18:29
Huron's bionics allow him to take up an HQ slot that could have went to someone more interesting. :angel:

Chem-Dog
18-03-2010, 18:35
(note, his heavy flamer doesnt count, as thats his powerfist and not something from his bionic body, and even if it was, its still pretty lame by comparison)

Well it does count, the Tyrant's claw (or whatever it is called now) incorporates the weapons, all his perks are offensive.


Huron's bionics allow him to take up an HQ slot that could have went to someone more interesting. :angel:

Quoted for the funny.

Grimmeth
19-03-2010, 11:39
Huron's bionics allow him to take up an HQ slot that could have went to someone more interesting. :angel:

By more interesting do I read 'Daemon Prince' for this? ;)

Huron does annoy me, half of his body has been replaced by Bionics, yet he gets very little for this. It's a shame because Huron has some potential as an interesting character but no-one ever really takes him.

chromedog
19-03-2010, 11:53
Because Cassius and Straken are cool, and Huron was the guy who started the Badab uprising and got his can kicked to perdition's gate for it.

It all even's out. At least Huron isn't a spawn, which is the usual result of upsetting one's Chaos gods.

Cpt_Baughan
19-03-2010, 12:10
Its not a case of anythings wrong with Huron, bionics don't need to convey huge benefits or everyone would have them done injury or not. Its Cassius and Staken being completely wrong, characters simply don't need stupid stat lines to be cool.

Barbarossa
19-03-2010, 12:57
Its not a case of anythings wrong with Huron, bionics don't need to convey huge benefits or everyone would have them done injury or not. Its Cassius and Staken being completely wrong, characters simply don't need stupid stat lines to be cool.

Listen to than man, because he speaks the truth!
As an IG player I actively detest Straken for being (stat-wise) on par with a Grey Knight. That's not what guard commanders are about. His other special rules (giving boni to squads nearby) are what he should do, but his stats are way too good.

bishamon_o
19-03-2010, 14:38
Its not a case of anythings wrong with Huron, bionics don't need to convey huge benefits or everyone would have them done injury or not. Its Cassius and Staken being completely wrong, characters simply don't need stupid stat lines to be cool.

well i dont think GW got that fact.
I just looked at the blood angel codex, Mephistion wtf.

Col. Tartleton
19-03-2010, 15:47
Yeah Calgar doesn't get ridiculous bonuses from his bionics even though they make up almost all of his body (excluding the head (which is partially bionic) and parts of his torso) he gets them from looking like this:

http://www.krg-23.com/taff/3d/sources/Marneus_Calgar.jpg

GOD OF WAR!

(For the record we must remember that's just his artificer armor, his TDA Armor of Antilochus is even more intimidating.)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/SithCZ/W40K/Marneus_Calgar_by_StTheo.jpg

Yeah

Sunfang
19-03-2010, 18:19
The return of (selective) herohammer.

htj
20-03-2010, 10:50
Quite. I was under the impression that bionics gave you a 6+ save for quite a while there. They must have found a new STC. Who needs marines now, when you can make Strakens?

ehlijen
20-03-2010, 11:04
Quite. I was under the impression that bionics gave you a 6+ save for quite a while there. They must have found a new STC. Who needs marines now, when you can make Strakens?

The idea is that you can't. He was exceptional to begin with and had more than a marine's worth of bionics and gear stuck into him over a long career. Making more of him isn't worth the cost compared to making a tactical squad or an infantry platoon.

He has a marine body that took more resources, time and skill to make than a marine and he has the galaxy's lightest chain fist. That last thing is a bit far fetched, but as he's still only at human I levels, he still couldn't fight in the big leagues if it wasn't for his ablative bodies/buddies.

Everything else is not beyond human potential (inquisitors can actually be scarier in a fight than him).

htj
20-03-2010, 11:25
Fair point. Still reckon he's kind of OTT, though.

Does make for a nice 'counts as' Alpha Legion in a Traitor Guard army, though.

ehlijen
20-03-2010, 11:40
He is somewhat needlessly better than the other HQ SCs, yes. But mostly because his bubble is bigger and nastier than it really should be.

Born Again
20-03-2010, 13:48
OK, this is fairly easily sorted. The Tyrant's Claw is not a power fist as far as fluff is concerned. The bit in the codex that says it "is a powerfist" is only a description of it's effect on the rules, perhaps a better wording would "counts as a power fist". The description is the first bit above that. It's actually just a giant bionic arm that can crush pretty much anything to a pulp, more akin to a piston driven ork power klaw than the energy field utilizing gauntlet a marine sergeant would use. I'm getting this from Huron's first appearance in the 2nd edition Codex, all the text on him is virtually unchanged since then, and the Claw's description there made no mention of a powerfist at all, it had it's own close combat profile, which happened to be Str 8 and a hefty save modifier. Treating as a power fist is the easiest way to show that under the current rules.

As for his toughness factor, he does have a 5+ Invulnerable which, granted, is fairly standard amongst the CSM special characters except for Bile, but the explanation of his save could at least be the bionics. At first I thought maybe it could warrant T5 too, but look at his model: to me it seems that while he's a dangerous adversary, he's clearly never fully recovered from his injuries, and I imagine there's some elements of life support built in to his bionics too, which could be severed or damaged by a lucky hit.


By more interesting do I read 'Daemon Prince' for this? ;)

Huron does annoy me, half of his body has been replaced by Bionics, yet he gets very little for this. It's a shame because Huron has some potential as an interesting character but no-one ever really takes him.

They're too busy whinging that they can't take an IW Warsmith as an HQ ;)

Khorneguy
21-03-2010, 00:55
Does make for a nice 'counts as' Alpha Legion in a Traitor Guard army, though.

My first impression upon reading the codex was that this is what he was intended for mostly anyway

ehlijen
21-03-2010, 01:25
Unlikely. He existed in the 3rd ed Catachan army pretty much as is now (minus the super bubble I think?).

He's meant to be the tough Sarge who got promoted beyond his suitability because he got things done so well and now refuses to behave like an officer as opposed to Creed who is meant to be the gifted genius commander destined from birth.

I think the difference is well captured apart from Strakan's bubble, but see above what I think about that.