View Full Version : My next Army Should Be... ?

21-03-2010, 12:07
(Update apporved at Helpdesk)
(please ignore original BA title!)

After a long time building my Tyranids I am starting to look at a second army.
The Nids are still growing and will be for a long time to come. (So much more I want to add) But I want abit of variation in gameplay, models and painting.
After taking on the advice of the forum members here, and looking over the BA Codex again,I have narrowed down the armies I like to 3. Each with Pros and Cons.
So here goes-

Blood Angels
I had a BA army around 14 years ago when I first played. Always had a soft spot for them.
The new Codex and models are amazing. And hopefully even more to come in the near future.
But, They are basically still normal Space Marines. ALOT of people run SM and BA now the new book is out.
In my local area there is already 3 BA forces. Not really had much experience with vehicles, game or model wise.
Only large Apoc model is the VERY expensive Thunderhawk

Iyanden Eldar
I have always liked the Eldar Aspect Warriors and Wraiths. The upcoming Nightspinner and ForgeWorld Titan will be great and fit the Wraith theme well. Troops, Elite and Heavy full of Wraiths would look amazing. So many conversions ideas for the Wraithlord.
But, Im not keen on the basic Guardians or most of the Vehicles. The army I like could be very limiting to play.

Love sci-fi. Got aliens, souless robots are just as cool. The Monolith is my favourite vehicle in the game.
They can get back up! I like all the models apart from the Pariahs. Simple but very effective painting.
But, The models and army choices are abit limiting at the moment. Had trouble with Warrior heads coming off sprues before. They have some of the oldest rules in the current 40K.

If these were your 3 choices, which would you go for? And why?
What are your thoughts on these 3 different armies and builds in general?

Thanks in advance

21-03-2010, 12:25
If I only had these four options to pick from, I'd probably go with Necrons. A few reasons:

1. Not many people play them anymore, so it's a fairly unique list. Granted, that's because, as you said, the rules have kind of passed them by. But they are supposed to be getting a new codex sometime within the next year (according to rumor that is).

2. They are certainly a sturdy army.

3. They are the complete antithesis of your wife's armies. The Necrontyr were violently opposed to the Old Ones, who used the power of the warp. Much of the Necrontyr technology was anti-warp.

4. Oddly enough, because they are a fairly easy army to paint, a well-painted Necron army is, to me, really impressive. Well-painted robot armies do get kind of intimidating.

21-03-2010, 12:26
If i had to choose one of those specific armies I supposed it would be Tzn CSM, for the sole reason that they are the coolest looking of any of the armies you listed.

The biggest factor that i can see out of all the armies you listed is that none of them are very dynamic on the board. They are all fairly similar in that they are stand-offish armies. I personally could not see myself wanting to play any of these except for the one i listed above and that is purely for aesthetic reasons.

Wish i could be more help, g'luck on whichever you decide. :)

21-03-2010, 12:43
Well, I like the first two choices, but given the rumor that plastic Wraithguard are on the Horizon, the Wraithbone list is something I would wait with for now. Necrons have a somewhat limited range, but the plastic kits aren´t going to change, a new Codex is on it´s way probably within a years time. I´m currently building them, amassing Warriors and a few Destroyers as well as a Lord, scarabs and a couple of flayed ones. They aren´t winning games right now, but they probably will come the new dex and when it comes around I can simply expand a bit.
1k sons are also interesting. They aren´t that great in game (though that invul can be nasty), particularly under the 5th edition wound allocation rules. An alternative would be a Tseentch list without the sons (big units with Icon, 2+/4+ on Termies is nothing to scroff at).
Tseentch deamons are indeed great modelingwise though Horrors can et expensive. It´s also an army that plays somewhat odd - deepstriking shooty units with no decent counterassault if you play mon-Tseentch... Flamers are absolutely deadly.

21-03-2010, 12:58
I would go with the necron a friend of mine who wanted to begin his first army choose the necron and he is very satisfied. they are tough (especialy with an orb nearby) and the monolith is just awesome (I shoot at it with my imperial guards for 3 turns doing more or less nothing) and I think necron is the opposite of a tyranids army. It's true that the rules are old but the still work pretty, the only problem with necron is the lack of troops, the army list is limited and in the end a lots of necrons armies look alike.

21-03-2010, 13:10
from a creative point of view id choose Tzeentch daemons and necrons, loads of conversion potential and paintschemes in those... Iyanden and Thousand Sons are more presety and limited IMO.

21-03-2010, 14:11
Iyaden would be expensive. but a Wraith wall army with Avatar is fun.

I see necrons as dull to be honest.
The models are even more generic then IG or SM and they have very limited options
Chaos can be fun but 1k SOns are limited in what you can do. Would you consider a 9generic/own Legion here) with some tzeen aligned troops?

21-03-2010, 14:48
Well, you can always paint all your marines into Tousand Sons, even if they just use the generic rules for CSM with an Icon of Tzeentch. Terminators with Tzeentch Icon is pretty buff too.

21-03-2010, 19:35
My my my, what a theme.

1 Ghosts, Seers and Warlocks
2 Undead Zombie Robots lead by Vampire Deities
3 Ghosts and Sorcerers
4 The Demonic infested with Horror

What would fit your Xenomorph, Predators in contrast..... In both playstyle that is fun and enjoyable, and befits your criteria. I'm speaking sorta in your third person here to give a roundabout feel so hear me out.

All the armies have a good way to be played, and many bad ones to be played. It doesn't matter who else owns the same models, because people buy what they want anyways.

With that said are you able to make the choice on your own? Sounds like the only reason Thousand Sons are in there is that you can't pick them because your wife owns chaos marines. But that's just how you came off to me, might be mislead here.

I'll go over the armies and typical playstyles for them. I have owned them all at one point, or still own them, including a good tyranid force that depends on 180 hormagaunts.

DO NOT BUY THE MODELS!!! I can't say that enough, make up your own wraiths. Or else you will be easily spending 500 bucks getting 1000 points. They are larger models with simple body frames. I ended up using skeleton box sets and gluing them together without any skulls to make up my own wraithguard. It was seriously very easy to do, and I could make 5.4 wraithguard for the cost of 2 metal ones.

For their playstyle, its easy. Get the two base troops with locks with conceal. Get the 3 wraithlords with a brightlance on each of them. Then fill those two troops with farseers with fortune. The rest is filled with Wave Serpents and units of 5 wraithguard with a lock and destructor. Don't mind the vehicles, they are a distraction/able to give your wraithguard a 4+ cover save in bad situations moving in. Or they can hide enough of a wraithlord if placed right to give THAT a 4+ cover save! Arm it how you want, I made mine dakka. It works very well, the tank shocks hammers tanks, the brightlances do their jobs and the balanced part of it all is that it is a WORKING wraith army. Cannot work without the elite units being anti tank, blockers, rushers etc... Trust me on that. People make the mistake of making it pure wraithwall and move it forward.. Not enough fortunes even with that special character that can fortune 2 units with a third seer fortuning a third unit!

A simple choice here. Buy the models, not a bad army to buy up, even with 3 monoliths. The more monoliths you buy however, the more of a ranged dancing force you will have to become, so be wary, I advise no more than 2 liths. Warriors are great, IF you know how to advance a rapid fire wall. If you don't then your going to have a hard time.

::::: <-- Basic necron unit setup for 10 models. BIG MISTAKE!
People put monoliths behind everything. SECOND MISTAKE!
Ranged units do not hide behind monoliths, or sit in the corners waiting to move into range because all long range models in the necron army can move and fire. (final mistake)

Avoid those mistakes and your golden. Need to rely on that 4+ cover save on top of we'll be back on top of the res orb on top of the 3+ armor save on top of being difficult to assault. Your a durability army as necrons, never offensive. People use one or two monoliths to sit tight and let a ton of bikes, immortals and the like fire between them with both sides covered by the tall behemoths. Immortals are very important, not only in firepower but as the bodies you will need beyond the first 20 warriors. Scarabs are awesome, don't pass them up, don't care what people say. They are much better these days with turbo boost and anti tank melee.

Typical setup for crons at 2000 pts.
(the rest longer range stuff here) all anbusing the monoliths line of sight blocking. If you want further ideas, click the Elements link in my signature below.

Tzeentch CSM:
Re-reading, you said 'Tzeentch', not just Thousand Sons? I will assume both sides in this for lack of clarity.

Firstly let me put this down. Thousand Sons are awesome. They are bolters, for one so they have a decent rapid fire up close. You could always do with more bolters in an army and in most cases you have a few forward units with bolters, and the rest are sitting idly behind them waiting for their turn for glory. So if you have half the bolters then another guy, you can still do the same damage per turn he can with bolters against say, a genestealer swarm. So don't fret, it is a misconception that more means better. Here is why; relentless/S&P rules let you fire on the move. Make most of your movement out of rhinos, and it hardly matters!

I fought a fella who used 6 units of thousand sons, small squads inside rhinos with combi-weapons and he outgunned me in a maze of dead/alive/immobilized rhinos to heavy effect. Then assaulted me with everything, and turned a good number of my marines into spawns and overwhelmed me. (I played that game with 50 marines and he had less than 30, half the time I also got 4+ cover saves) He knew his rhino game well enough to rely on it and beat me up with suffering very little on his end. He would have even won a killpoint game with me slaying the spawns he made.

I play my thousand sons a little less reliant on sorcerers and transport spam. But still, it proves deadly. Practice with marines and how to use them, watch as people play transport armies. There are plenty of tricks to them, I have a few vehicle tactics located in my tactics links in the sig.

For basic CSM with icons of tzeentch, I can say this much. Cover saves does better than the icon, so what is the icon for? Melee, or being in the open and in front/exposed. So naturally, it does raptor units justice at 20 models strong a unit. Because they have their own mode of transportation that does not limit their unit size, and you pay one icon for 20 instead of 10 effectively doubling its worth. Giving me enough reason to bypass the 2 meltaguns and powerfist I could get with another raptor unit by splitting the 20. (adding 3 more raptors worth in the process, so I get extra horde killing potential with 3 more krak grenades/wounds to add to the durability!)

Another couple of units that like the icon, aside from 20-size units of marines. Are 10-size unit of terminators, who get 4++ saves, one less then Storm Shields but retain their combiweapons. A few chainfists, and your good to go. The icons in the raptors can be their teleport homers, and being 20 models they could be hard to remove entirely before the terminators arrive. Sense the theme here yet? THE TERMINATORS ARE THE CHAMPIONS! (Don't pay 40 pts to add a fist in raptors, just add another terminator instead~~)

That's how I figure it anyways. There are reports of tzeentch terminators outperforming thunderhammer/ss terminators, because they often fire before charging. It would be reversed if they got charged, but you can imagine the chance to hammer down with 30 terminators against a shrike list. You could, make two units of 15 raptors with icons, and have 30 tzeentch terminators nicely equipped in 2000 points. (more likely 25 terminators in favor of more troops, two big units and a smaller termicide unit)

The other choices include adding fabius bile, making some enhanced marines and giving them the icon to make them very well rounded for melee combat with meltaguns. Making them a different style of berzerkers for you if you get tired of the melee oriented army.

Tzeentch Daemons:

Alright well, almost done. I am long winded so bear with it one more time. Always appreciate a fella who has similar tastes.

Firstly, let me say this. The waves are a blessing, and deep strike has a touch to it. 8" between an obsticle is where the edge of your deep strike unit has the best average chance for charging into melee. But since you are ranged, that has no bearing on you except scattering onto your own units. So keep that in mind, 8" distance between your own units when lacking icons, best for first wave usually.

Next I'll mention something about horrors. They all can come with a anti tank weapon, but they're awesome infantry shooters so why bother? Here is how I work with it. The small units of 5 target vehicles, while the larger units of 15-20 fire at troops but still have that bolt of change power (and possibly the character changeling) for other things they might want to hammer. This works in a different way too according to the waves. Pick the large units to arrive first, hammer away and not lose a bolt of change to enemy attacks. Then next wave arrives and they're the smaller units, easier to place and plop on objectives later in game, and still hammer away at range.

For HQ, this is tricky. I run with 4 heralds, one being scribes (for pavane of slaanesh and multiple tries with boon of mutation ~ he gets very lucky IMO). I put boon of mutation on all of them and I keep them ALL in one unit. Then when that unit is almost gone, I move them to the next unit. They get charged, I turn loads of the enemies into spawns. I make sure my HQ's are behind a wall of horrors so when I am charged, they are not in base contact and effectively out of danger/cannot be targeted by most things.

I use small units of flamers, considering scrives with a pavane of slaanesh to help me get some templates. I use a few disks in fast attack, just for the meltabombs to slay something, or if there is only one unit able to fire at my larger units of horrors and nothing else able to fire I can fly them in front to give 4+ cover saves and then go to ground for 3+ cover save if I feel there will be no more turns. Sometimes it saves me an objective when a unit is about dead. Sometimes other things happen, these guys are very useful for being so cheap.

Heavy, princes of course. More firepower please. I normally pass up spamming flamers of tzeentch to put the templates on these guys, just because I like it that way. But, mostly I only ever use one prince and spam the little guys/disks. In one game I remember making 4 spawns out of 4 carnifexes.... I much rather have my HQ's to do the dirty work while being immune to melee unless overwhelmed. (I really do keep them in the middle of the unit, unable to move, a benefit of large units)

So then, there are also people who use counts-as daemons as their own deities daemons. Seen slaanesh player use horrors, mutated(melted) daemonettes that could easily pass as horrors. Another fella uses bloodletters for his nurgle force, claiming they were a part of epidemus' previous tally... So on, so that is also an option for you. Just be sure to mention it to the opponent before the game starts.

Hope this helps. Later.

21-03-2010, 19:49
My vote would be with the Eldar. The main reason being I really want to start them myself as I think they are somewhat of a painters army, and painting is an area I am steadily improving in.

I would vote against Necrons as they will make you bored slightly as you will end up just using the same strategy and models each game, and you will get bored of painting the tonne of Warriors needed to acheive victory.

I used to play a fully Thousand Sons Tzeentch army, and they were great models to paint, really annoying to build as they are part metal part plastic, and then I got to the battle field expecting lots of fun and they just lacked something for me, I cant put my finger on it, but there was just something missing.

I cant really say much about Daemons except it will probably be a very expensive army, money wise.

21-03-2010, 22:29
I´d go for Necrons. Easy to paint, not a jewell in terms of playability/fun on the tabletop, but a good choice for a second army.

21-03-2010, 22:38
I would stay away from the wraith army. I've had one and it's not all it seems to be. Works much like T-sons who are just as tough, cheaper, and have more range.

22-03-2010, 00:39
Go Necrons. they are solid force. easy to paint. and with limiting troop choices keep you focused on the things you need. I also love the Sarabs. people under estimate them alot. and as said already they can be great to bring tanks down.

I use destroyers and deep strike monoliths and veil of darkness my troops into areas with good concentration of troops to bring my opponests down.

22-03-2010, 00:54
I would go either necrons or eldar.

Necrons are amazingly easy to collect and paint. And you do not see many people playing them. They are a difficult army to play. However they are getting a new codex soon which is HIGHLY likely to drastically change everything you know about them.

Iyanden army is very characterful in my opinion. I myself want to make one as I love the models. However they are stupid expensive. This army will cost you many times over what necrons will. They are again an army you do not see played very often however you do see a lot of people playing eldar in general. They also are a long ways off from seeing an update.

22-03-2010, 20:01
So many reasons for each force. And all of them great!

On advice and approval from the Helpdesk I have updated the OP with my most recent thoughts.

04-04-2010, 17:15
I would maybe hold off on Necrons for a bit until we get word about the new codex. It apparently is slated to hit shelves roughly Jan '11. Some of the models are changing (rumors say the Immortals are going to 40mm bases for example). I like Necrons and would say use Necrons, but I wouldn't feel at ease telling someone to start spending money on something that may not even be viable in less than a year.

04-04-2010, 17:18
Thats a good point. Im just hoping that they will be adding units in the next book instead of removing them

04-04-2010, 22:23
I doubt they´ll be removing them and there´s no reson to replace any of the plastics (they are all looking pretty great). So Warriors (including Scarabs), Destroyers and Monos are a rather safe bet.

04-04-2010, 22:26
Most of the units seem to be a safe bet at the moment. But how well do they do against the current/new Codexes?

04-04-2010, 22:37
How about using the Necron codex to do a 1kSons undead list.

Get yourself a tonne of tomb kings and off you go.

04-04-2010, 22:49
Necrons are boring, both to play and to paint. Limited in play styles, limited in modeling options and limited in painting opportunities.

I'd say go for the Blood Angels. They'll provide a very different experience from the Tyranids.

04-04-2010, 22:58
How about using the Necron codex to do a 1kSons undead list.

Get yourself a tonne of tomb kings and off you go.

Im not keen on using a Codex as a 'count as' list. Just feels abit like cheating to me.

Necrons are boring, both to play and to paint. Limited in play styles, limited in modeling options and limited in painting opportunities.

I'd say go for the Blood Angels. They'll provide a very different experience from the Tyranids.

I can see your point. Necrons do seem abit like they could be the same every game. And there doesnt seem to be a huge range of builds for them. But I do love the models.
BA would be vary different. Loads of styles and builds to choose from now.
But are any of the cool looking ones worth doing? Or would they get old quickly aswell?

04-04-2010, 23:27
Well, the 'crons are possibly the weakest Codex right now, but some builds still work - mainly spamming Destroyers, or a few Monos and Immortals. Scarabs can be pretty good as well. So the things that work right now are the things with the plastic models. Boring, I´m not sure. Yes, there are limitations on how you can build the army. But there are a few tactical options and because they´re so weak right now, they are a real challenge to play.

To paint: There´s more in them then you´d suspect at first glance. Of course almost everybody simply goes for Boltgun metal. But They do look good (better in general I´d say) in other colors. Deep reds work well against the green, blues work as well. Bone colors, greys, white... You may want to try source lighting from the rods as well. And of course there are different coloured transparent plastirods if you´re not a fan of the green.

05-04-2010, 00:07
lol, those people saying the necrons have limited modeling options must seriously lack imagination. Necrons are a converters/modelling dream as their simplicity leads to easy conversion and if your a sculptor they are a dream to work with. The same is true for space marines.

Heres an excellent example :
Go through that log and tell me again they are limited in modelling and painting.

and some others :

Swamp necrons :

some very non-uniform necrosn here :

and from the past iv seen :

* Void-dragon necrons (sculpted scales, sculpted gauss flayers with scaled and open-serpent heads)

* babylonian/assyrian necrons.

* Chinese terra-cotta necrons, all had sculpted on chinese iconography and were made to look like they were made of clay.

* one buddy of mine is doing necrons with a "woodland" theme using warhammer fantasy dryads. Sounds weird, but it works really well from what iv seen.

* one buddy shaved off all the faces and is making them into weird gollum-type constructs.

and also :
* you can use other coloured rods.
* you can use electronics to make necrons monolith crystals and tubes light up
* you can with the lovecraftian themes
* you can take from ancient civilizations
* you can take from other robot/cyborg races (dr who's cybermen, star treks borg, terminator, cylons ect)
* You can theme an army through the Lord
* You can theme an army through a c'tan (both alive or long dead)
* I've seen flayed ones modelled with imperial guard uniforms and flesh ect

exactly how is that limited ? by your own imagination maybe but certainly not by others.

05-04-2010, 00:12
Very nice Necrons there. Made even better by the robo Hitcher! Needs EELS!

05-04-2010, 00:14
You don't want another horde army, but your choices defiantly aren't any of those. Marines seem to be everywhere - Chaos, Codex, SW and BA. Don't go for them - boring, most armies seem to be designed around defeating MEQs. Necrons are pretty interesting, but the codex is almost as out of date as the Dark Eldar, so that turns me off them a little (nothing like slowly building a new army, and then finding out you have to update them the next year).

So I say Eldar - they are a bit more rare (around me at least), different, and give you plenty of options: fast assault, gunline, mech, mecha (Iyanden). I like the whole concept of Iyanden as it really shows off the 'dying ancients' theme of the eldar, as well as having a nice looking special charater (Yriel? Can't remember the name) and an interesting colour scheme (YELLOW!!!).

05-04-2010, 06:42
TimLeeson you have found some nice models to share. I feel way to lazy now with mine.

05-04-2010, 12:40
Just to add mine: http://post-neo.com/Necrons/Destroyerdec.jpg
The directory has other pics as well. The main feature there are the green flames, made by mixing heavy gloss acrylic gel medium and vallejo fluo green, so they actually glow under UV light (and react similarly to the camera flash).

05-04-2010, 13:00
There are some stunning Necrons and ideas for them here now. Dont know If I would be up to making them look that good though. And there seems to bw 2 different opinions on the rules. They work well or they are no good.
Yellow Iyanden would be very different to paint. Seen a nice easy but effective way in one of the Citadel Painting books aswell. And for a change I could go for any Aspect or Harlie unit. So many different colours in one army!

05-04-2010, 13:30
YELLOW is awesome! And taking aspect warriors as a change of paint scheme is a good point. Wish I didn't already have 3 armies on the go (Fantasy Daemons, Ogres, BA) and had enough money to get an Iyanden or Alaotic Eldar force... At least it's an incentive to look for a better job, eh?

EDIT: Those swamp Necrons do look really nice...

05-04-2010, 17:08
Molochs Necrons are very nice. Just like everything else he does.
Whats wrong with a 4th? I say that when I cant even decide on a 2nd!
The eldar would be a very bright and colourful change to anything I have done before.
But all 3 forces still call to me for different reasons. Money is the only reason Im not getting all of them.

05-04-2010, 18:44
Molochs Necrons are very nice. Just like everything else he does.
Whats wrong with a 4th? I say that when I cant even decide on a 2nd!
The eldar would be a very bright and colourful change to anything I have done before.
But all 3 forces still call to me for different reasons. Money is the only reason Im not getting all of them.

Yeah. Eldar have alot of painting opportunities and varied playstyle and still a solid codex playwise - but all those aspects are in metal except dire avengers.

As I said previously with necrons, you can convert alot from the basic warriors and make a force pretty cheaply compared to other armies - so money-wise they'd be your best bet - but of course with a 3rd edition book they are pretty limited playstyle wise and weak.

Damn thats a tough decision...I'd say those were the best two options though objectively.

05-04-2010, 20:17
Add your first force ever collected which has just gained alot of new models and rules to the decision. Now you can see why Im torn between them.

05-04-2010, 20:32
They are limited in modeling and painting options. You can remedy that with some creativity, but you're an idiot if you deny that out of the box they don't compare to most armies out there. They have no details, they have no accessories, they have no options. And to crown it all, they have limited, repetitive poses. So sure, go ahead and find some amazing examples of Necrons; the sheer majority of players will never even reach a fraction of the creative spirit behind any of these, and to claim that these rare examples can excuse these flaws 'because the potential is there!' is even more ridiculous.

Or you can go for Eldar or Marines, both armies who have some simple yet amazing conversion potential, plenty of details to paint, and tons of accessories to pick and chose from.

And as a bonus, you get an army that can stand up to the newer ones on top of having multiple, strong, army builds. So if you ever get bored of a playstyle, you can easily mix things up and try something else. If you get bored of the two Necron builds that can attempt to wheeze their way to victory, well you're stuck until the next codex.

So, OP, if Blood Angels are not quite your cup of tea, go for Eldar. In June the Eldar will get some new plastic kits for their vehicles, and even rules for a new one. It's a good time to start on an Eldar army.

05-04-2010, 23:13
Cant wait to see what the new Eldar models look like. The problem with the Eldar though is that I only like 2 of the builds you can make.

06-04-2010, 11:20
You can remedy that with some creativity, but you're an idiot if you deny that out of the box they don't compare to most armies out there.

This can be applied to -every- army. And calling someone an idiot shows you do not have the ability to debate your opinions. To me this just comes across to me like you just have a hate-on for necrons and cannot be reasonable or objective about this subject but ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume otherwise.

They are limited in modeling and painting options.

You can paint grey plastic and silver metal any colour you want. Did you not read/see the examples I gave ? Heres a few more :


the sheer majority of players will never even reach a fraction of the creative spirit behind any of these.

I feel this can be applied to any army. And where I live necrons are the dominant creative force in my area.

and to claim that these rare examples can excuse these flaws 'because the potential is there!' is even more ridiculous..

They are not rare examples from myexperience - and whats a flaw to you is an advantage and excuse to be creative in my eyes. Sorry if that makes me an idiot because you think you are right. Amd to me the potential isnt just there its being extrapolated and used all the time - as I have shown in many examples.

06-04-2010, 11:34
Iyanden all the way. Glorious Wraithguard!

06-04-2010, 23:54
The Necrons and Iyanden are both starting to look more Appealing than the Blood Angels now. People on here have very good arguments for both