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Troah
22-03-2010, 04:02
Why do people freak out when you call an army book a codex?

shakedown47
22-03-2010, 04:08
Because army books are not codexes, and codexes are not army books. Most people don't refer to a bicycle as a car, and vice versa. Same thing.

To really answer your question, though, it's probably because most Fantasy players (myself included) are more than a bit chafed at the game's less-than-equal status compared to the newer, and far more inferior, 40k.

Dai-Mongar
22-03-2010, 04:14
It's just some good old-fashioned NERD RAGE.

Agnar the Howler
22-03-2010, 04:17
I don't freak out, I just calmly correct them.

enyoss
22-03-2010, 07:20
I think fantasy players tend to feel a little overlooked when compared to 40K, so it probably stems from that feeling of resentment. It does irk me a little, but never enough for me to say something about it here (I also sometimes use `Codex' instead of `Army Book' by in private... forgive me).

Condottiere
22-03-2010, 08:04
I like the term Codex; perhaps we need some cool term for the tome containing our army profiles.

BigbyWolf
22-03-2010, 15:09
What's a Codex? ;)

As for a new Fantasy Armybook name...Bestiary?

UltimateNagash
22-03-2010, 15:11
Lexicon? or Biblos. No, that doesn't sound too good. But Lexicon (though inproperly used) sounds good.

Dark Elves Lexicon
Vampire Counts Lexicon
Chaos Dwarfs Lexicon
The Empire Lexicon

Lexicon: Dark Elves
Lexicon: Vampire Counts
Lexicon: Chaos Dwarfs
Lexicon: The Empire

Yeah... :D

Oh, and Codex =/= Army Book. Different terminology. I just correct those who use it wrong...

Jedi152
22-03-2010, 15:12
Us fantasy players get less attention as it is. Lumping army books in with codeces is the last straw.

:p

wizbix
22-03-2010, 15:13
Because it interferes with our sense of being more "elite" than 40K. ;)

castellanash
22-03-2010, 15:14
It's just the nice NERD RAGE that come into play for us poor fantasy players who are always stuck on the back seat behind 40k :(

Famder
22-03-2010, 15:27
Because it is a different term for the different systems. It is like the difference between a general and an admiral.

Stuffburger
22-03-2010, 15:33
Personally I sometimes use the two interchangeably and think codex sounds cooler. Why do the 40k guys get the cool sounding old name for book and fantasy just gets "book" :mad:

etancross
22-03-2010, 15:49
for the same reason you see the word "codex", and if there are more than one even GW refers to them and "codexes" but you see people on here call them "Codeses" and people get all weird about spelling when its all just a big'ol "WHO CARES"

Grymlok
22-03-2010, 15:58
I wouldn't freak out. The word Codex is historically far older than the word book. In fact Codex is just latin for a document bound in the style we think of as the modern book, and they replaced scrolls as a means of containing large bodies of writings. I would argue that army books should be codices and the 40k codices should be army books.

Look at the various Codex documents throughout history, they are all archaic and historical documents now. Maybe it was being forced to go to Catholic church as a child that the word Codex was instilled in my brain, long before playing Warhammer, as a word associated with "really old pointless stuff" as I once would have said. If we called Army Books "Army Scrolls" then we could argue Codex is the newer term though!

Condottiere
22-03-2010, 16:58
The Halfling or Ogre books could be retermed as Menus.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
22-03-2010, 17:04
I use codex when trying to explain for a 40k player what an AB is...

GuyLeCheval
22-03-2010, 17:17
Because we consider ourselves better then the 40k crowd ;)

No seriously, it doesn't matter really. If you are corrected, decide for yourself what to do.

it's coming this way!
22-03-2010, 17:17
The Halfling or Ogre books could be retermed as Menus.

I got a good laugh out of that :p


As far as the difference goes, I definitely recognize that there is one, though I personally don't really care.

brendel
22-03-2010, 21:35
Its ok, I call codex's armybooks, I keep being corrected, but I keep on doing it.

R-Love
22-03-2010, 21:44
The Halfling or Ogre books could be retermed as Menus.

Sorry, not quite. That's what they call the other army books (ogres more than halflings...usually) ;)

On topic, it makes almost no difference, but it annoys 40K players, so what other reason do you really need? :D

N810
22-03-2010, 22:07
It would be similar to someone calling your Guiness a Budwizer...

Urgat
22-03-2010, 22:31
I like the term Codex; perhaps we need some cool term for the tome containing our army profiles.

There it is, tome, sounds cool. Reminds me of Heretic too :) (Tome of Power ^^)


The Halfling or Ogre books could be retermed as Menus.

Lol :D

Troah
22-03-2010, 23:42
It would be similar to someone calling your Guiness a Budwizer...

My what is a what?

And I'm a fantasy player mainly, I didn't even pick up a 40k book till a few years after I started, but I always called them a codex and I probably always will. Saying Army Book to me is like saying Personal Computer instead of just simply PC.

sigur
22-03-2010, 23:50
Alright, so you deliberately use an incorrect term. I guess there's many people running around calling tables dishwashers. I understand that there are such people. I don't understand their motivations but if they persistantly express that they aren't willing to use the correct term...well, whatever.

Stronginthearm
23-03-2010, 00:07
Wow, I read this thinking people wouldn't be worked up over it, and in fact guys it isn't like calling a table a toilet or a car a bazooka, its more like referring to a panzer as a Mark IV rather then a Mark III, there is a difference but it doesn't really matter

sigur
23-03-2010, 00:20
Wow, I read this thinking people wouldn't be worked up over it, and in fact guys it isn't like calling a table a toilet or a car a bazooka, its more like referring to a panzer as a Mark IV rather then a Mark III, there is a difference but it doesn't really matter

I really don't think you can use the "Mark" term when talking about German tanks. :)

And I share theunwantedbeing's sentiments towards that topic. Apart from the physical violence part of course. The things are called army books, not codices. That's it. You can, for what ever reasons, not use the term but it won't change anything about the fact that in this case you're using the wrong word for a thing that has the correct term written on it. When being part of a community, it's best to use the community's codes and terms otherwise there could be confusion or you could leave the impresssion that you're not familiar with the subject matter.

ChaosVC
23-03-2010, 03:13
We should try calling codexes army books over at the 40k thread and see their reaction. I am honestly curious, it is potentially fun to see people reactions.:p

nearchus
23-03-2010, 03:51
Alright, so you deliberately use an incorrect term. I guess there's many people running around calling tables dishwashers. I understand that there are such people. I don't understand their motivations but if they persistantly express that they aren't willing to use the correct term...well, whatever.

The purpose of words are to communicate meaning, not necessarily to make people happy. If you call a "dishwasher" a "table" then you must mean that you use it in a manner akin to a table, otherwise you're failing to communicate. If you call an "army book" a "codex", everyone that plays Warhammer knows exactly what you're talking about. Upsetting the pedants or elitists among them may or may not be an additional goal (though I suspect that you can guess which it is in my case.)

I wish you luck in your crusade to insist on "correct" terms that deviate from popular usage.

N810
23-03-2010, 04:36
Start using Yugio terminology in a Magic the Gathering forum and I'm sure you wil get a similar reception.

Ultimate Life Form
23-03-2010, 04:43
Because a) it's wrong and b) people can't form the plural.

Codex is for 40k only, except for the German Ork book which as I found out yesterday calls itself a 'codeex'.

R-Love
23-03-2010, 05:18
And yes, I have hit people for using the wrong term.(not hard obviously....just enough to get my point across)
Such people need to know that doing things wrong - a short sharp pain and not to do it again :)

Thank God for Whippy Sticks, eh? :D It's like GW designed them to hurt like hell. It's not like you can measure with them...

Fun fact: The Most Important Rule is roll a dice only because GW's lawyers refused to print "Duel with the crappy measuring sticks put in our starters! En Garde!" Proving: Lawyers Suck :mad:


Start using Yugio terminology in a Magic the Gathering forum and I'm sure you wil get a similar reception.

This may have more to do with the fact you know Yugio terminology in the first place...

Condottiere
23-03-2010, 06:29
You can poke those things in rather soft and vulnerable tissue, specifically the eyes, so I'm not surprised that no mention is made of conflict resolution using whippy sticks.

Lordsaradain
23-03-2010, 12:09
How about just calling them books. As in the Beastman book. Or the Space Marine book. Short and simple.

eyescrossed
23-03-2010, 14:50
Because book doesn't sound cool :D

Griefbringer
23-03-2010, 14:57
You can poke those things in rather soft and vulnerable tissue, specifically the eyes, so I'm not surprised that no mention is made of conflict resolution using whippy sticks.

Of course this risk could have been reduced by adding a fencing mask to the starter box set. Actually, two masks would have been better for the Skull Pass box: one is green, while the other one comes with a false beard attached.

scarletsquig
23-03-2010, 15:35
How about just calling them books. As in the Beastman book. Or the Space Marine book. Short and simple.

That's pretty much what I do in all of my conversation, both spoken and online.

Noserenda
23-03-2010, 16:44
Wow, I read this thinking people wouldn't be worked up over it, and in fact guys it isn't like calling a table a toilet or a car a bazooka, its more like referring to a panzer as a Mark IV rather then a Mark III, there is a difference but it doesn't really matter

This^

Plus Codex is just a better and easier term than Army book, why not use it? :rolleyes:

N810
23-03-2010, 16:46
Said the guy with the Space Knight avatar. :p

Ultimate Life Form
23-03-2010, 16:46
Plus Codex is just a better and easier term than Army book, why not use it? :rolleyes:

Because it's wrong.

I don't know what your job is, but where I come from exact nomenclature is a must (I actually wish GW would understand that as well).

Bac5665
23-03-2010, 16:56
Because it's wrong.

I don't know what your job is, but where I come from exact nomenclature is a must (I actually wish GW would understand that as well).

Amen!

What is so hard about using correct nomenclature? Precision is not a vice. It is a good thing to be able to speak more precisely that simply relying on the probability that "everyone will know what I mean". And since saying army book provides that precision, why not say it?

Does it matter, 99% of the time? No, but it will matter every now and then. And its indicative of a larger lack of precision in speech and gameplay, which I find problematic. And its disrespectful to the hobby, to substitute an outside term for one used in game.

So that's why I will always correct someone who says codex. I don't have to do it sarcastically, but I will correct them.

wizbix
23-03-2010, 20:44
There is some deep seated psychology there I think: If a 40K player refers to a fantasy army book as a codex we start to feel angry. The anger is probably based some where in a belief (false belief) that Warhammer is inferior to 40K. Now we all need to sit down and have some Cognitive Behavioural Therapy to challenge thsi belief and then I hypothesis that we would then not give a monkeys what the book/tome/codex/bound item with lots of information is called. ;)

R-Love
24-03-2010, 00:25
Of course this risk could have been reduced by adding a fencing mask to the starter box set. Actually, two masks would have been better for the Skull Pass box: one is green, while the other one comes with a false beard attached.

Exactly. Or just issue a warning of "Wear safety glasses," like the one they have whenever suggesting the use of a power tool (they did on the old site at least, I don't even know if they have articles for projects needing power tools anymore anymore :() Also, it's a hell of a lot of fun :). Only fight to first blood though, otherwise it's just mean

Brother Enok
24-03-2010, 15:28
It's a book, what you call it isn't important. At all. In any way. If it's so important that you feel the need to lay hands on someone, uneven alittle, you need to reasses your priorities.
Also, correct nomenclature might be important in your job. We arn't talking about your job, we're talking about a hobby. How is that even remotely relavent? You know what he means, he knows what you mean, get over it. I don't go around games workshop correct everyone when they call it a longsword, when it's infact an arming sword, maile instead of chain mail, targe instead of buckler, glaive instead of spear, spear instead of javil, greathelm instead of helmet ect. It's just not that important.

Jeez, no wonder the hobby gets a reputation for being abit geeky sometimes. Why be so anal?
The thing that makes me chuckle is that in real life, most the people here getting so bent out of shape wouldn't actually make a big thing about it.
"Could you pass me that high elf Codex, please?"
"WELL! I think you'll find it's an army book, don't be so disrespectful to my hobby"
".....buddy, just pass me the damn book"

Ultimate Life Form
24-03-2010, 17:06
The thing that makes me chuckle is that in real life, most the people here getting so bent out of shape wouldn't actually make a big thing about it.


I think it's fortunate for both of us that we won't ever run into each other.

Constantly (or should I say purposely?) using a word that enrages other people (and I'm not talking a negligible minority here) for whatever reason makes you the offender, not me. It doesn't matter if it's swearing, derogatory statements about one's religion or racist comments or simple abuse of the hobby; if it offends people it's you who is in the wrong.

Seriously, if you guys know it's offensive to some, what's so ******* hard about simply calling that damn thing a book, for Tlazcotl's sake? It's even shorter than your precious 'codex' (so much for the 'we're to lazy to speak' crowd). Guh, I want to slap someone around the face now with a codex...

Brother Enok
24-03-2010, 17:09
I think it's fortunate for both of us that we won't ever run into each other.
I should hope that's not a threat.
You're comparing calling a book by a diffrent name to racism? You're offended by it? LOL.

It's not a "precious" codex. I don't attach worth to the word, it's just the word I use. The fact that your so worked up about such a trivial matter, and that you now wish to commit an act of violence because of it is disturbing to say the least.
It's not that important. Unless of course you plan to doctor all the words you use in warhammer with the correct teminology, and plan to also enforce that with violence?

Ultimate Life Form
24-03-2010, 17:10
It's probably more fortunate for me.

N810
24-03-2010, 17:29
Can we just call books, books please,
and forget this whole codex thing.

Brother Enok
24-03-2010, 17:30
Or call them what we want and not get worked up about trivial things?

Ultimate Life Form
24-03-2010, 17:35
Yeah, see, that's the problem. Everyone has their things that they get riled up about, and in some cases, it can be something entirely trivial, and not respecting that is extremely bad style. I don't know what you hate, but I'm sure you wouldn't want me to do it, either. That's what I meant about us not meeting being fortunate; because it probably would push me towards the brink of insanity, which would in turn ruin your day because I can be pretty gruff when I'm in that mood.

Brother Enok
24-03-2010, 17:40
Yes, there are things that I don't like. However, I don't let the trivial things affect me so much it ruins my day. I don't let it get to me. I remain sanguine. I don't like it, but I get over it. Likewise, as I'm not a overtly bigotted, rude person I'm not going to walk on eggshells all day incase I upset someone with my mannerisms or choice of words. Not to say I walk around dropping the N bomb all day long, some things just arn't on, but something as pedantic as the example in this thread is just not worth worrying about. I wouldn't let it bother me, and you need to get over it too.

And it takes more than a gruff person to ruin my day, I used to work in retail ;)

Ultimate Life Form
24-03-2010, 17:42
I'm not sure you're used to that kind of gruffness though... :shifty:

Brother Enok
24-03-2010, 17:45
Working at GW I was threatened with physical violence by a bunch of chavs. I've seen pretty gruff :D

It annoys you, and that's fine, but you can't exspect people to stop using words as benign as "codex" because you feel it's not being used correctly.

OldMan
24-03-2010, 17:48
Army book = codex

And i don't care what GW's marketing department thinks of it.
Codex is shorter, easier to say, and can be translated to polish ( unlike army book which have to equivalent and always sounds akward) and essencially, the same what armybook.

I neve distinquish between armybook and codex.

Alltaken
24-03-2010, 17:58
I sincerely can't believe such a heat from the usage of different words which are more than generally understood what they stand for. I truelly understand the need for proper wording, even more when rules are the subject. Wording should be precise, if not it doesn't mean what you're wanting to say.

However issues over say codex or army book are pretty lame, really. Even more if there's any influence to this by a feeling that your game range is lessened against another range. That just doesn't feel like a grown up's argument, sorry. I call it codex because it's shorter and conveys the same thing and people understand that

Brother Enok
24-03-2010, 19:23
Alltaken speach much truth.

Condottiere
24-03-2010, 19:26
Terminology brings ambiance and certain context. I've seen codex used as a short form for a rule set for conduct, and Bestiary to list Monsters and races (and their military units).

Spiney Norman
24-03-2010, 19:36
for the same reason you see the word "codex", and if there are more than one even GW refers to them and "codexes" but you see people on here call them "Codeses" and people get all weird about spelling when its all just a big'ol "WHO CARES"

Actually the grammatically correct plural of Codex is "Codices" (pron. co-da-sees), but you're right, it doesn't matter, its not like most 40K players would know the difference :D :angel:

Its just that the word "codex" is latin, which Imperial High Gothic is based on in the 40K universe, plus it does sound somewhat futuristic, even if its not. Incidentally, the Latin word "Codex" didn't originally mean "book" at all, its original translation was "block of wood", and it was only because of the shape of early books (or codices) that the word came to mean that too. I make no comment on the implications of "Codex" = "block of wood" to the 40K game. :angel:

It would be cool if we could come up with a better name for the WH army books, esp if it sounded cooler than "codex".

Ultimate Life Form
24-03-2010, 19:39
How about making it individual? The Vampire Counts could have a Grimoire, while the Dwarf players will prefer to call it Book of Grudges. :p
(Quite literally by the way... :shifty:)

Spiney Norman
24-03-2010, 19:42
How about making it individual? The Vampire Counts could have a Grimoire, while the Dwarves will prefer a Book of Grudges. :p

Duuuuuuuuuude "Grimoire" would awesome!!!

Imagine
Grimoire Lizardmen
Grimoire Ogre Kingdoms etc

I've also long thought that races which have their own names in their own language should have them as part of their army book

Grimoire Druchii
Grimoire Asrai
Grimoire Dawi Zharr :angel:

An alternative that just occurred to me, what about "Treatise"???

A treatise is an exhaustive study of a particular subject, so the Treatise: Dark Elves would be an exhaustive study of Dark elves.

Grymlok
24-03-2010, 20:00
caudex was used for a block of wood and Codex was the very similar word for the document which was made up of thin bits of wood that were written on. True though, it was the Xtian faith heads who spread the use of the word codex to mean book in our traditional sense.

nearchus
24-03-2010, 21:29
Yeah, see, that's the problem. Everyone has their things that they get riled up about, and in some cases, it can be something entirely trivial, and not respecting that is extremely bad style. I don't know what you hate, but I'm sure you wouldn't want me to do it, either. That's what I meant about us not meeting being fortunate; because it probably would push me towards the brink of insanity, which would in turn ruin your day because I can be pretty gruff when I'm in that mood.

This is unacceptable. There are things that people get upset by that we decide are socially acceptable to make into a big deal. There are other things that are not. It's not acceptable to get upset over the use of a perfectly fine word to communicate meaning. "Codex" is not an imprecise term to refer to a Warhammer Fantasy book. It's both a popular term and an easily recognizable term that differentiates Warhammer from some other hobby.

With that said, I do accept that people have an irrational dislike of 40k and would like that no term associated with 40k "taint" their hobby. I'll happily have "heated" arguments and even do a decent job of portraying mock outrage at the use of the term "codex" to refer to an "army book". But at the end of the day Codex is a useful term.

Ultimate Life Form
25-03-2010, 05:53
It's not acceptable to get upset over the use of a perfectly fine word to communicate meaning.

And this was decided by whom again...?

Different people have different connotations of words, and if someone is offended by a word and you use it despite knowing better, you're an offender, period.

And what you said about 'socially acceptable' fires right back at ya; while I agree society as a whole won't care, it doesn't matter because you have to abide by the rules of your immediate environment, and if you jump into a pool of sharks... uh, I mean, join a group of Warhammer players you may find that in these circles it is very well socially acceptable to get worked up over it. Find it unacceptable, well, no one forces you to stay. Personally I find it childish to insist in the use of a wrong word apparently just for he sake of it and extremely uncouth on top of that because you know it annoys people.

eyescrossed
25-03-2010, 08:23
And this was decided by whom again...?

Different people have different connotations of words, and if someone is offended by a word and you use it despite knowing better, you're an offender, period.

And what you said about 'socially acceptable' fires right back at ya; while I agree society as a whole won't care, it doesn't matter because you have to abide by the rules of your immediate environment, and if you jump into a pool of sharks... uh, I mean, join a group of Warhammer players you may find that in these circles it is very well socially acceptable to get worked up over it. Find it unacceptable, well, no one forces you to stay. Personally I find it childish to insist in the use of a wrong word apparently just for he sake of it and extremely uncouth on top of that because you know it annoys people.I hate to have a pointless post, but... This^

wizbix
25-03-2010, 08:33
Duuuuuuuuuude "Grimoire" would awesome!!!

.

Yes and they could even make the cover out of real human skin too. :rolleyes:

Condottiere
25-03-2010, 08:56
Anyone reading through the list of magic books in an RPG will have noticed they use a wide variety of terms meaning the same thing, whether Tome, grimoire or lexicon. Since Army Book sounds rather pedestrian for a Fantasy Game, it's not surprising some players would like a title with more zing, after all, you don't have titles like Short Humanoids Army Book, Green Humanoids Army Book or Extra Dimensional Army Book.

Djekar
25-03-2010, 09:00
I have to agree with ULF.

Anecdotally I had a friend who would misuse words and then become angry because I didn't know what he meant by them: i.e. "I went to the store last night about 3 a.m"
"Don't all the stores close at midnight?"
"I meant the waffle house"
"..."

Words are here to help us communicate, and if we use them imprecisely we are essentially failing at communication. That is my biggest annoyance. If something matters to you, why not spend the extra few seconds to make it right?

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 10:25
Different people have different connotations of words, and if someone is offended by a word and you use it despite knowing better, you're an offender, period.

So if I get haughty when someone calls the zweihander the "Empire Great swords" carry a great sword, or a longsword, or even fail at an attempt to be acurate and call them Slaughter sworders they'r in the wrong because i have soft skin.
No. Get over it. It's your problem. The world won't change because you get upset because someone is using a word you don't like. Your point is pedantic and silly. Painting out people who use the word "codex" as a catch all phrase for foce specific rules books as offensive people is silly to the extreme, and if you don't do it for everything in the hobby you're a hypocrite. So again, just get over it. As a person who uses the word "codex" in the fasion, you're the one with the issue. Don't delude yourself to think we have to change.

If you get worked up about an army book being called a codex, then you're worthy of all the ridcule you get. Thats just nerd rage taken to the most eye wateringly stupid extreme.

eyescrossed
25-03-2010, 11:19
He said if you do it to intentionally annoy...

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 11:31
Am I? o.0
You wouldn't be assuming to apply a certain tone of voice or vocal inflection to my block of text would you, sire?
Trust me, I'm quite calm.

eyescrossed
25-03-2010, 11:52
Am I? o.0
You wouldn't be assuming to apply a certain tone of voice or vocal inflection to my block of text would you, sire?
Trust me, I'm quite calm.

Your posts don't seem to reflect that...

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 13:11
Ok. Then I shall state it now for your benafit. I'm not the one with the issue, nor am I worked up. I'm just pointing out how silly it is to "take offense" at someone calling an army book a codex. xD

eyescrossed
25-03-2010, 13:17
Ok. Then I shall state it now for your benafit. I'm not the one with the issue, nor am I worked up. I'm just pointing out how silly it is to "take offense" at someone calling an army book a codex. xD

And I'm just pointing out how silly it is to be too lazy to pronounce ONE extra syllable to avoid agitating somebody.

nearchus
25-03-2010, 13:50
And this was decided by whom again...?

Different people have different connotations of words, and if someone is offended by a word and you use it despite knowing better, you're an offender, period.

And what you said about 'socially acceptable' fires right back at ya; while I agree society as a whole won't care, it doesn't matter because you have to abide by the rules of your immediate environment, and if you jump into a pool of sharks... uh, I mean, join a group of Warhammer players you may find that in these circles it is very well socially acceptable to get worked up over it. Find it unacceptable, well, no one forces you to stay. Personally I find it childish to insist in the use of a wrong word apparently just for he sake of it and extremely uncouth on top of that because you know it annoys people.

You've given no evidence that "Codex" is an inappropriate word other than your apparent irrational hatred of 40k. I, however, have offered that the word communicates the exact meaning that I wish to convey. That is, if I wish someone to know that I'm talking about the Lizardmen Warhammer Fantasy Battle Book, calling it the "Lizardmen Codex" conveys *exactly* that meaning. It instantly associates Lizardmen with GW's games. "Army Book" does not.

I'll use the term knowing that it "annoys" people because those people are acting irrationally and immaturely and are deserving of none of my special attention. It is socially acceptable to get upset when racial slurs are used, not when perfectly adequate (and accurate) terms are used to refer to objects. If you do get upset, then do not expect the rest of society to talk around your oversensitive ears. I just don't care. Far more important things fill up the time of adults. It is not the job of the rest of the world to assuage your poor ego if you insist on getting upset over things that are perfectly logical. And frankly, I'd applaud anyone that goes out of their way to upset you in an effort to teach you this.

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 14:12
And I'm just pointing out how silly it is to be too lazy to pronounce ONE extra syllable to avoid agitating somebody.

Absolutley agree. However, I'm not being lazy, Im just using the word which I have always used.
Effort has nothing to do with it. What this is really about now is ULF and the chip he has on both shoulders regarding 40K, and his dislike for it "infecting" his part of the hobby.


I'll use the term knowing that it "annoys" people because those people are acting irrationally and immaturely and are deserving of none of my special attention. It is socially acceptable to get upset when racial slurs are used, not when perfectly adequate (and accurate) terms are used to refer to objects. If you do get upset, then do not expect the rest of society to talk around your oversensitive ears. I just don't care. Far more important things fill up the time of adults. It is not the job of the rest of the world to assuage your poor ego if you insist on getting upset over things that are perfectly logical. And frankly, I'd applaud anyone that goes out of their way to upset you in an effort to teach you this.
Also this ^

Ultimate Life Form
25-03-2010, 14:16
You've given no evidence that "Codex" is an inappropriate word other than your apparent irrational hatred of 40k. I, however, have offered that the word communicates the exact meaning that I wish to convey. That is, if I wish someone to know that I'm talking about the Lizardmen Warhammer Fantasy Battle Book, calling it the "Lizardmen Codex" conveys *exactly* that meaning. It instantly associates Lizardmen with GW's games. "Army Book" does not.

I'll use the term knowing that it "annoys" people because those people are acting irrationally and immaturely and are deserving of none of my special attention. It is socially acceptable to get upset when racial slurs are used, not when perfectly adequate (and accurate) terms are used to refer to objects. If you do get upset, then do not expect the rest of society to talk around your oversensitive ears. I just don't care. Far more important things fill up the time of adults. It is not the job of the rest of the world to assuage your poor ego if you insist on getting upset over things that are perfectly logical. And frankly, I'd applaud anyone that goes out of their way to upset you in an effort to teach you this.

Your logic is flawed.

That's your problem. Calling things by incorrect names is by no means logical, and you have to prove to me first that a codex is the same as an army book. I'm sure if that was the case GW would have told us.

Since for some reason you insist in annoying us and even admit you do it on purpose it can only be concluded that you are the one being immature and not a valuable member of the gaming community. My point stands, if you intentionally do things to annoy and irritate people you won't find many friends, and if you handle the forum rules in the same haughty way (yes we have rules here, too), you won't be around for long. Mods don't take offense in the word codex, but they're very sensitive when it comes to removing troublesome individuals, as might happen to you in a gaming club if you continue to shout 'codex' in the face of upset Warhammer players with a smug smile on your mug.

And Enok, please quote a single line where I said I would fear some kind of 40k infestation. I do not have to do so, for Fantasy is an entirely different system with entirely different rules and terms (which is exactly what you fail to grasp). I'm not annoyed by the fact it's 40k slang, I'm annoyed by the fact it's wrong. I can't stand that for the life of me. I would take similar offense if you call it a bible, a constitution, a code of law or who knows what. Don't throw around false accusations, but this is really all I hear from you guys all the time, accusations, not arguments, so I think going on with this discussion is moot, especially with people who don't show the faintest trace of respect towards their fellow human beings and are proud of it.

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 14:43
And Enok, please quote a single line where I said I would fear some kind of 40k infestation.
You havn't directly, thats just the vibe I get from your snide remarks that have been made in this and other threads, like this


I do not have to do so, for Fantasy is an entirely different system with entirely different rules and terms (which is exactly what you fail to grasp). I'm not annoyed by the fact it's 40k slang, I'm annoyed by the fact it's wrong.


I can't stand that for the life of me. I would take similar offense if you call it a bible, a novel, a constitution, an essay, a code of law or who knows what.
And if someone did use these phrases, throwing your toys out your pram and Q.Q ing about it would be equaly rediculous. As long as you know what they mean, and they arn't calling it something overly racism ect, you're whining about a pedantic, pointless issue. see nearchus post above.


Don't throw around false accusations, but this is really all I hear from you guys all the time, accusations, not arguments, so I think going on with this discussion is moot,
It's moot because your complaint is childish and pointless. It's just a bugbear you need to get over.

especially with people who don't show the
faintest trace of respect towards their fellow human beings and are proud of it.
Sweeping, exagerated and inacurate statement. I have plenty of respect for fellow human beings. I'm polite to stangers, helpful to people if I can be, loyal to my friends and I even do work for charity :D. I just have no respect for people who complain about something as petty as this, or any desire to sooth thier ego or wipe thier sobbing eyes because they can't get over someone using a word they don't like in regards to how we refer to a rule book.

VoodooJanus
25-03-2010, 14:59
Honestly, I can find it a bit vexing when someone calls an Army Book a Codex, but I'm not going to let it get me all upset! If something of such trite consequence were to bother me, I would have been taken away by the twinkiemobile long ago.

I will say though- to those who don't realize why it upsets people so much: that's fine. You are likely a level headed individual, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to at least accommodate those who have pickier tastes then you- we really don't have so many hobbyists that you can afford to alienate some because they don't like a word you don't have to say! Some people get annoyed when people chew on their shirts, or when people crack their knuckles, and you're right, it doesn't make sense logically, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least attempt to not do those things simply because it's the polite thing to do.

And to those who get quite upset: okay, I get it. It's like when someone calls graphic novels comics. Yet the assumed to be offensive term still prevails: most stores are still called 'Dale and Phillus' comics' or, in general application, comic book stores. I personally have never heard anyone call a comic book store a graphic novel store. Maybe if they're doing it to annoy you than I can see where you might get angry, but if it's new person, or if they make an honest mistake, then I'm not sure it's a situation deserving of expressed annoyance, much less rage.

I know warseer is known for it's ongoing and sometimes inane arguments, but COME ON PEOPLE! In the end, it boils down to whether or not you're having fun. If saying 'Army Book' will avoid a fight, there's no reason you shouldn't at least TRY to use the word. And if you let someone using the word 'Codex' bother you to the point of (in ULF's words) extreme 'Gruffness', then you need to at least TRY to keep calm. Sure it's imprecise, but I'm sure that not every time someone is 'imprecise' it's impossible to contain your rage. It's about the game and your and everybody else's enjoyment of Warhammer, not any other thing.

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 15:02
If saying 'Army Book' will avoid a fight
The fact it could even be considered to get to that point is hilarious.

ULT, out of interest, what would your honest IRL reaction be if I refered to a book as the "Empire codex"?

Ultimate Life Form
25-03-2010, 15:42
ULT, out of interest, what would your honest IRL reaction be if I refered to a book as the "Empire codex"?

Well, since we are complete strangers, I would be reserved and let it slip. The second time, I would gasp and raise my brows. The third time, I would politely address the issue, saying something along the lines of 'in Fantasy, those aren't called codex'. Now it depends. If you accept my point and try remembering it, I won't mind the occasional codex slipping out. But since you make it sound like you would jump up and down in front of me, point your finger at me and chant 'codex, codex!' like a deranged child, I would very quickly break the diplomatic relations.

As I said, it all comes down to mutual respect.

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 15:43
You're assuming I deliberatly going out my way to use a word that annoys people. My point is you're wrong in this assumption. I use it because it's the first word that I think of. If I stopped myself saying "Army Book" and with a smug, sardonic grin said "Codex" you'd have a point. Your point is moot however.
Also, I don't require your respect, I just ask for courtesy, and unlike the people pissing and whining about the issue, I don't want special treatment either.

ULF, again you make a false assumption created to justify your silly little hangup. No, I would not jump up and down, I would simply state "Fair enough, but I call them all as a "codex"" and ingnore your pedantic behavior. OUtside of a discussion on the issue like this one, your problem wouldn't even be woth the time. Also, it's quite vexing that your attitude has several times boiled down to "If they keep doing it, I imply I'm going to hurt them physically". Even if I was to "jump up and down like a deranged child", getting physical, which is exactly what you are implying, over something like this is perhaps telling of either your character, or the internet persona you have created for yourself, not to mention very unwise.
You know, I get alittle bit irritated when people call them "Ultra smurfs", mainly because that much vetriole aimed at a line of toy soldiers is dorky and stupid, I don't correct them and then "Quickly break the diplmatic relations". It's my problem, not theirs.

Lord Anathir
25-03-2010, 15:45
Whats a codex?

Ultimate Life Form
25-03-2010, 15:48
Whats a codex?

Word History: Latin codex, the source of our word, is a variant of caudex, a wooden stump to which petty criminals were tied in ancient Rome, rather like our stocks. This was also the word for a book made of thin wooden strips coated with wax upon which one wrote. The usual modern sense of codex, "book formed of bound leaves of paper or parchment," is due to Christianity. By the first century b.c. there existed at Rome notebooks made of leaves of parchment, used for rough copy, first drafts, and notes. By the first century a.d. such manuals were used for commercial copies of classical literature. The Christians adopted this parchment manual format for the Scriptures used in their liturgy because a codex is easier to handle than a scroll and because one can write on both sides of a parchment but on only one side of a papyrus scroll. By the early second century all Scripture was reproduced in codex form. In traditional Christian iconography, therefore, the Hebrew prophets are represented holding scrolls and the Evangelists holding codices.

1. (Library Science & Bibliography) a volume, in book form, of manuscripts of an ancient text
2. (Law) Obsolete a legal code

wizbix
25-03-2010, 15:54
The debate is silly. Grab a beer, sit down and enjoy yourselves with the game. is it all that hard ?

Ultimate Life Form
25-03-2010, 15:57
The debate is silly. Grab a beer, sit down and enjoy yourselves with the game. is it all that hard ?

Yes. I'm strictly against alcohol. Thanks for guiding us the next battlefield. :shifty:

nearchus
25-03-2010, 15:57
I dont have any respect for somebody who can know that using the wrong term is enough to annoy those around him and yet will refuse to use a term which doesnt bother those people.

Even going as far as declaring their own lack of respect for those people who are bothered by it and complain about them being unwilling to change their minds! it's a rediculous thing to say.

Your outlook to this topic is childish, immature and selfish.
(not singling you out specifically Brother Enok, your just getting quoted as you have an opinion I disgree with)

It's just a word, it will do you no harm to use a different one those around you are more happy with you using.

Actually this does cause harm. Language is meant to convey meaning. "Codex" conveys the meaning that I wish to convey. I accept that people get upset when racial (or religious, or other) slurs are used because these terms are associated with pain and suffering on a much larger scale than the people involved. I accept that some situations in ones life might make bringing up terms associated with those situations troublesome and would avoid them where possible (joking about poking someone with a stick around someone beaten with one, for example).

I'm pleased to see that the greatest injustice you have to face is that your book is referred to by a word that successfully conveys exactly what was meant. But acknowledging your anger trivializes the anger that people feel over real problems. Allowing you to act in such an immature manner encourages such actions from others. I'm fine with acting with mock outrage at the association of warhammer fantasy with 40k. I'm sure you'd be surprised (though I can hardly see how since I already mentioned it in this thread) that I often do so when someone calls an army book a codex. This does not mean that the term is incorrect. This means that I have an irrational and immature dislike of the association. One that I handle like an adult rather than a spoiled child.

Ghal Maraz
25-03-2010, 15:58
Perhaps I'm wrong, but shouldn't it be:

WFB = Warhammer Armies
WH40K = Codex

Warhammer Armies & Codex = army book

And, strictly historically (by GW standard) speaking:

the first Warhammer Armies (The Empire - 1992) came before the first Codex (Space Wolves - 1993-34).
Not counting the Warhammer Armies supplement for Fantasy 3rd edition, which came out in 1988!

wizbix
25-03-2010, 15:58
Yes. I'm strictly against alcohol. Thanks for leading us the next battlefield. :shifty:

Therein lies the problem. ;):)

Alltaken
25-03-2010, 16:31
Terminology brings ambiance and certain context. I've seen codex used as a short form for a rule set for conduct, and Bestiary to list Monsters and races (and their military units).

Yes, however there is a mighty difference where by bestiary you are implying a suplement and one can probably infer it to be an RPG book expansion, or some sort of book on the beasts of certain fantasy lore. Whereareas Codex means "army book", if properly explained it means "40k army books". So there's really little interpretation issues possible to using codex in a war gaming environment besides "army book". By war gaming I mean warhammer gaming.

So the real issue lies in people in the end rather than actual proper wording. The context is there, yeah, ambiance is a little lost. I firmly believe it to be a matter of taste, however this seems to be more nerd rage that defending proper speach. We're not part of a phylosofical group discussion where I would shurely support this sort of arguments, but it's a bloody game and discusing so much about a name doesn't seem worth the effort

Troah
25-03-2010, 16:53
This was inspired by the responses to this threat.
So I went into my 'local' gaming store two hours away (I live in a hole devoid of life...literally) There was about 7 people in there, nearly half were fantasy. I went up to them and said "Anyone wanna do a small battle? I have the Bretonnia & Lizardmen codex." Then one of them replied with "It's an army book, not a codex." I looked at him and responded with "Yeah and I call it a codex. Do you want to have fun or cry about how I called it a different word with the same meaning?" He looked back at his friends and then at me and we continued to have a great time in a battle where I got my ass handed to me again as always. It was fun.

Afterwards I went up to the 40k group and asked if anyone wanted to play. I told them that I have the Dark Eldar army book and the Tau army book. Again I got a similar response, and again we simply played and I lost again. :D


The point is who really gives a crap? You say "Wooden stick with a point" and I say a "Make-shift spear" it's all the same thing. In the end we had fun, sure one of them fantasy boys came up near the end and asked why I called it a codex and I explained that's a word used to describe something. Calling a skyscraper a building or a very all building that reaches up to the sky a skyscraper is all the same. We all parted our ways with no fuss. So I guess what I'm saying in the end is ULF, stop Q.Q'ing.

Oh and Army Book = Codex, Codex = Army Book, Bacon = Tasty and good.

Ultimate Life Form
25-03-2010, 17:45
So I went into my 'local' gaming store two hours away (I live in a hole devoid of life...literally) There was about 7 people in there, nearly half were fantasy. I went up to them and said "Anyone wanna do a small battle? I have the Bretonnia & Lizardmen codex." Then one of them replied with "It's an army book, not a codex." I looked at him and responded with "Yeah and I call it a codex. Do you want to have fun or cry about how I called it a different word with the same meaning?" He looked back at his friends and then at me and we continued to have a great time in a battle where I got my ass handed to me again as always. It was fun.

Afterwards I went up to the 40k group and asked if anyone wanted to play. I told them that I have the Dark Eldar army book and the Tau army book. Again I got a similar response, and again we simply played and I lost again. :D


The point is who really gives a crap? You say "Wooden stick with a point" and I say a "Make-shift spear" it's all the same thing. In the end we had fun, sure one of them fantasy boys came up near the end and asked why I called it a codex and I explained that's a word used to describe something. Calling a skyscraper a building or a very all building that reaches up to the sky a skyscraper is all the same. We all parted our ways with no fuss. So I guess what I'm saying in the end is ULF, stop Q.Q'ing.

Oh and Army Book = Codex, Codex = Army Book, Bacon = Tasty and good.

You think it's fun being pedantic and self-opinionated, don't you? :(

Well, as has been said as long as it's okay for everyone it, well... is okay, but that you got these responses should show you that it's not me being part of a quixotic minority, and seriously if you would introduce yourself with these very words I would be... not amused at first. :shifty:

Condottiere
25-03-2010, 19:17
I hope that everyone's honour is now satisfied.

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 20:01
You think it's fun being pedantic and self-opinionated, don't you?
Pot, meet Kettle.


if you would introduce yourself with these very words I would be... not amused at first.

What do you even mean by this!? Why do you feel it's unacceptable to call a book a codex, but think it's fine to use thinly veiled threats of potential violence?

wizbix
25-03-2010, 20:03
I hope that everyone's honour is now satisfied.


time to stirke it off of the book of grudges me thinks.

orlanth1000
25-03-2010, 20:16
Sorry to invoke anger here, I always ask for the say " skaven codex " at my LGS when I'm buying a army book, just because I know it upsets the guy behind the counter......I mean really, isn't there more important things to be worried about?

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 20:18
Sorry to invoke anger here, I always ask for the say " skaven codex " at my LGS when I'm buying a army book, just because I know it upsets the guy behind the counter......I mean really, isn't there more important things to be worried about?

No, obviously you're a bigot and a vile human being, deserved of nothing but scorn and passive aggresive threats of violence against your person for not using the exact correct word at all times. :p

Last Edition
25-03-2010, 20:24
If you are dead set on calling army books for codices, even though you know people don't like it, you should also get used to, and not bothered by, getting corrected by the people you deliberately annoy.

Grymlok
25-03-2010, 20:33
Wow, some people really do give the proverbial flying expletive about this little chestnut. I didn't realise it was really such a bone of contention.

I wonder if professional classical guitarists feel this way when they hear heathen electric players like myself calling our guitar an axe? (actually I own more acoustics than electrics, but hey)

I stand duly corrected on my failure to realise the gravitas of this grievous and heinous misuse of a noun. Just as well nouns are not the crux of language!

yabbadabba
25-03-2010, 20:45
Warseer gets spammed by another non-issue :evilgrin:

Eat, drink and be merry. Call it what you like, the people you really want to be playing just aren't that bothered. ;)

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 20:50
I'm not bothered. And again, it's not deliberate.

Ultimate Life Form
25-03-2010, 20:54
Pot, meet Kettle.


What do you even mean by this!? Why do you feel it's unacceptable to call a book a codex, but think it's fine to use thinly veiled threats of potential violence?

It saddens me you fail to realize I was indeed referring to myself (I can't see any of such points in Troah's posts), and also that the proposed attitude was less than likeable, not the message itself. Therefore I fear all hope is lost in your case, sadly, as you still won't let me go.

Also please point out where I ever threatened someone with potential violence; I'm a pacifist and the only violation I inflict upon others is with words, a weapon that is sadly dulled by the forum rules. But in fact I'm tired of this, I could talk all day but you wouldn't understand a word I say, I dare not make a conjecture what the reason for this may be, and it's also not worth my time.

So my final words will be the same as my first: It's fortunate we'll never meet.

Brother Enok
25-03-2010, 21:48
So you admit you have a mental disorder which might make you diffrent to other people in terms of something like this, but then acuse me of being in the wrong because I automatically use a word which I associate with something, and aren't bother about the soft, damp feelings of people who blub like children over pendantic, pointless things.

That is your point right?

FORtheGREATERgood
25-03-2010, 21:59
For someone like me who converted from 40k into the, imo more interesting world of fantasy battle, it's an easy mistake and it should slide for me as it's an honest mistake. I apologize to all offended lmao.

But seriously, does it really matter that much?

Troah
26-03-2010, 01:50
(I can't see any of such points in Troah's posts),

That's the point, all my posts are pointless.
HA! Get it? Pointless? I'm like a unit of Chaos Warriors that's free but without armor, weapons, training, or freakish strength given by mutations.:D

ChaosVC
26-03-2010, 02:31
Thread Close.

Haha! Just Kidding.:evilgrin:

orlanth1000
27-03-2010, 21:40
Warseer gets spammed by another non-issue :evilgrin:

Eat, drink and be merry. Call it what you like, the people you really want to be playing just aren't that bothered. ;)

I'm starting to agree with you more and more these days which is getting scary.

Really, does it really matter?

If such little things bother you like a army book being called a codex, you should all check out this guy...

http://www.attitudeisaltitude.com/

and see if it bother him....

theunwantedbeing
27-03-2010, 23:51
Really, does it really matter?

If it doesnt matter, then why not use armybook in fantasy and codex for 40k?

I reckon deep down the answer is quite simple,
people use the wrong term when they know its wrong simply to assert their
dominance over everyone else and generate some feeling of self worth.

Its no extra effort to say armybook in fantasy.
So clearly by not saying it, you are simply doing it to annoy others, which you are doing only because it asserts your own dominance and makes you feel superior.

Why would you need to do that?
You feel you are inferior to others obviously, and must use an oppertunity to assert your own superiority to feel okay about yourself.

Childish really.
But thats how it is sadly.

Not a big deal to use the wrong word, just immature to keep doing so after being corrected.

yabbadabba
28-03-2010, 00:04
If it doesnt matter, then why not use armybook in fantasy and codex for 40k?
I reckon deep down the answer is quite simple,
people use the wrong term when they know its wrong simply to assert their
dominance over everyone else and generate some feeling of self worth.
Its no extra effort to say armybook in fantasy.
So clearly by not saying it, you are simply doing it to annoy others, which you are doing only because it asserts your own dominance and makes you feel superior.
Why would you need to do that?
You feel you are inferior to others obviously, and must use an oppertunity to assert your own superiority to feel okay about yourself.
Childish really.
But thats how it is sadly.
Not a big deal to use the wrong word, just immature to keep doing so after being corrected. Couldn't disagree more, and while every community has its occasional obejctionable person, I think your explanation is sadly lacking in any veracity.

nearchus
28-03-2010, 00:17
If it doesnt matter, then why not use armybook in fantasy and codex for 40k?

I reckon deep down the answer is quite simple,
people use the wrong term when they know its wrong simply to assert their
dominance over everyone else and generate some feeling of self worth.

Its no extra effort to say armybook in fantasy.
So clearly by not saying it, you are simply doing it to annoy others, which you are doing only because it asserts your own dominance and makes you feel superior.

Why would you need to do that?
You feel you are inferior to others obviously, and must use an oppertunity to assert your own superiority to feel okay about yourself.

Childish really.
But thats how it is sadly.

Not a big deal to use the wrong word, just immature to keep doing so after being corrected.

People in this thread keep making this claim. The fact that you are adamant that "codex" is an incorrect term does not make you right. So far, the best evidence for "army book" being the only right term is that those that get upset at the term codex really *really* wish deep down in their heart that "codex" is wrong. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't find this persuasive.

Codex conveys the meaning of "warhammer fantasy battle book" as well as, and arguably better than, "army book" does, and is therefore a perfectly fine label for the book. Both are popular terms and both convey the correct meaning. "Codex" upsets people unreasonably. That's too bad for them. I'm a pretty reasonable person, but I'm not so reasonable as to use a less useful term for something unless there's some problem communicating or a real issue with the term. Racial/Religious persecution are good reasons. Personal trauma (psychological or physical) are perfectly good reasons. Wishing that a word were "incorrect" when it is, in fact, a better term than the one you use...is not acceptable. I accept that some people may feel that "codex" has a bad connotation associated with it (if they're not fans of 40k). I don't accept that this makes a term "incorrect" or that we should have any respect for people that insist that it is "wrong". It's not your preference, but it's not wrong.

Being pedantic is an annoying habit, but it's not the worst out there. Being pedantic and being wrong is simply ridiculous.

O&G'sRule
28-03-2010, 01:33
I just call them all books, so I'm wrong for everything even though thats what they are

puppetmaster24
28-03-2010, 01:56
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT CODICES.

Ahem...

yabbadabba
28-03-2010, 02:02
I just call them all books, so I'm wrong for everything even though thats what they are I'm thinking about calling them supplementary manuals.

orlanth1000
28-03-2010, 04:14
I just got called out as someone who has a inferiority complex, by someone who knows not one thing about me WTF?..........I shouldn't be surprised as this an internet forum.....anyway, who really cares? not the majority of people on here.

And you obviously didn't look at the link I provided above, my hope was to help uptight people not be so uptight, looks like that was a fail.....anyway......

Cannot wait for the next time I go into my store and ask for a supplementary manual :)

Condottiere
28-03-2010, 05:43
The word codex, being Latin, can be used in different languages and conveys the fact that the item in question is a GW product, even if that was not the original intent; when I hear Guide in the RPG context, I think first of D&D.

TheSil
28-03-2010, 11:42
the problem simply boils down to percieved arrogance

somehow 40k came up with a fancy name instead of the descriptive term. an Army Book is exactly what it says: it describes the army from background to rules. In my opinion that sounds much better than any names you can make up to blur that.
So far no problem.


However if you play fantasy you never use this fancy term and it is kind of annyoing if someone calls army books by a name that is simply wrong and out of place


It is like fantasy players would suddenly say "servo loricatus" (just a random phrase as an example) instead of "armour saves"


Now imagine how a 40k player would feel if his gaming partner constantly says "my tau warriors have a servo loricatus of 5+"
Even if you know exactly what it means, and even if it both describes exactly the same thing you might feel annoyed or even offended and point out that actually in 40k you don't call this a "servo loricatus" but an armour save. because that's just what it is, an armour save


I think the reason to take offence his the impression that your game partner does not even have the decency to bother with the correct terminology of the game
you might be fond of the terminology, because you think that armour saves are more descriptive or not
but in the end it really comes down to being annoyed by the arrogance of the "other system dude" to refuse to adapt. instead he imports something that just doesn't belong



/edit: That being said, being a fantasy player myself, I would probably say "Space Marine army book" instead of codex all the time, at least for a while until I get used to it.
This has nothing to do with arrogance, its just what I am used to call army books, and as I said before it is in my opinion a much more descriptive term. Kind of an umbrella term for both if you want...

Urgat
28-03-2010, 11:58
Wild thought: maybe people use codex because it's faster to type/say?

Gork or Possibly Mork
28-03-2010, 11:59
I'm thinking about calling them supplementary manuals.

Don't forget to say "of Doom" after. Everything sounds better ( and nerdier ) when you say "of Doom" after.

Pretty soon it will be so annoying no one will care what you call them as long as it doesn't end with "of Doom":D

The Red Scourge
28-03-2010, 13:13
Jeez.. Why do people give a hoot? :p

Its just friendly bantering - and should people become offended by uttering the abominable word 'codex', you just go ahead and repeat it, but this time slower and louder untill they get the point :D

BTW: You yanks, will probably be a little offended by this attitude, but I'll be happy to repeat it to you slower and louder ;)

Condottiere
28-03-2010, 13:15
the problem simply boils down to percieved arrogance

somehow 40k came up with a fancy name instead of the descriptive term. an Army Book is exactly what it says: it describes the army from background to rules. In my opinion that sounds much better than any names you can make up to blur that.
So far no problem.


However if you play fantasy you never use this fancy term and it is kind of annyoing if someone calls army books by a name that is simply wrong and out of place


It is like fantasy players would suddenly say "servo loricatus" (just a random phrase as an example) instead of "armour saves"


Now imagine how a 40k player would feel if his gaming partner constantly says "my tau warriors have a servo loricatus of 5+"
Even if you know exactly what it means, and even if it both describes exactly the same thing you might feel annoyed or even offended and point out that actually in 40k you don't call this a "servo loricatus" but an armour save. because that's just what it is, an armour save


I think the reason to take offence his the impression that your game partner does not even have the decency to bother with the correct terminology of the game
you might be fond of the terminology, because you think that armour saves are more descriptive or not
but in the end it really comes down to being annoyed by the arrogance of the "other system dude" to refuse to adapt. instead he imports something that just doesn't belong



/edit: That being said, being a fantasy player myself, I would probably say "Space Marine army book" instead of codex all the time, at least for a while until I get used to it.
This has nothing to do with arrogance, its just what I am used to call army books, and as I said before it is in my opinion a much more descriptive term. Kind of an umbrella term for both if you want...In the particular case that you mentioned, the descriptive word for the manual doesn't come into play, technical terms that describe the mechanism taking place should be understandable to both you and your opponent, and unless I was playing someone who's mother tongue wasn't English, I would expect them to use the correct terminology in English describing said mechanisms during the game.

TheSil
28-03-2010, 15:20
In the particular case that you mentioned, the descriptive word for the manual doesn't come into play, technical terms that describe the mechanism taking place should be understandable to both you and your opponent, and unless I was playing someone who's mother tongue wasn't English, I would expect them to use the correct terminology in English describing said mechanisms during the game.

I was talking about GW officially renaming the menchanism into something else, hence being the "correct English terminology".
Granted, the example was not very well picked and something more English would have been better than two random latin words, so lets try again:

Lets say they rename "Ballistic Skill" into "Shootiness" in 8th edition and from now on this term is printed in all the fantasy rulebooks


Now in 40k games people constantly start talking about the "shootiness" of their characters, even though its not "shootiness", its BS in 40k
I can imagine that could bug a few people and the term would get corrected every now and then

wizbix
28-03-2010, 15:23
Lets say they rename "Ballistic Skill" into "Shootiness" in 8th edition and from now on this term is printed in all the fantasy rulebooks



Perhaps why not take this a step further and re-write the rules book in lt speech. I'm sure that would dumb it down enough fsome people? :wtf:

Condottiere
28-03-2010, 15:44
"My Captain with his Sniper Rifle draws a bead on your General, who's sitting by his lonesome."

"It's long distance, he's on foot, so that's minus two, what's your BS?"

"My shooty talent computes to five, but he's got a scope, so that's a four to smack him down."

That would irritate me if my opponent was a stranger or an acquaintance.

TheSil
28-03-2010, 16:01
hehe, that's nice :)


just to clarify: what I wanted to convey was that the irritation does not come from "talking funny" or "using wierd terms" but from the simple fact that one is a 40k-only term and the other is fantasy exclusive equivalent

also to clarify: I am not really bothered by it (unless maybe I get the impression that the opponent does this deliberatley to annoy me - but why would i get involved with people who do that?).
It simply sounds wierd to me when someone speaks of a "codex", so I can't help but think "The what? - Oh yeah, he's talking 40k now, he means army book"

it really seems to be a minute and insignificant topic, but since you are playing one game and not the other you might just as well use the correct terminology, its not that much of an effort


and come to think of it shootiness is a nice and simpler term for ballistic skill, isn't it? :p

Ultimate Life Form
28-03-2010, 16:27
it really seems to be a minute and insignificant topic, but since you are playing one game and not the other you might just as well use the correct terminology, its not that much of an effort


No it is, haven't you followed the thread? Applying accurate terms and precise language presents an undue hardship to people who cannot be bothered to think before they talk. Therefore it is our responsibility as a society of thoughtful beings to do away with our unreasonably high expectations and relieve them of the duty to speak in a manner that we understand. Clearly it is our fault for being overly pedantic and also stupid because we cannot match their expectations of being able to know what they want to say even though they don't say it.

Therefore, to finally put this to a rest, we absolutely must muddle the language in a way so that every word can have every meaning that any given individual in the world might want to apply to it. Why bother with such insignificant things like meanings or facts; why care what GW calls their products, from this day forth all this is a thing of the past.

Why have a Codex: Chaos Daemons and an Army Book: Daemons of Chaos, for they are clearly the same things? Strange that GW haven't noticed yet that they sell redundant products! Let's merge them into one book, the Codex: Daemons of Chaos, with HQ Lords, Rare Elites and powerful Psyker Wizards, and let it finally be known that Fantasy and 40K are indeed the same universe. Only then everyone will be happy.

Idle Scholar
28-03-2010, 18:15
I use codex for both because it sounds cooler.

nearchus
29-03-2010, 13:32
Why have a Codex: Chaos Daemons and an Army Book: Daemons of Chaos, for they are clearly the same things? Strange that GW haven't noticed yet that they sell redundant products! Let's merge them into one book, the Codex: Daemons of Chaos, with HQ Lords, Rare Elites and powerful Psyker Wizards, and let it finally be known that Fantasy and 40K are indeed the same universe. Only then everyone will be happy.

I assume you mean Warhammer Armies: Daemons of Chaos. We call it an "army book" because using the actual title of the book isn't as convenient. Some of us, on occasion, call in a "codex" for similar reasons. And as I've argued, "codex" conveys the meaning better than "army book" to which the only counterarguments in this thread have been "nuh-uh" and "GW would have told us if we were wrong." Neither of which I've found persuasive since graduating kindergarten.

If you insist on calling the book by the name that it is sold by then at least be correct in what you call it. If you change that name for convenience, don't be upset when some people don't agree with what you've decided is most convenient.

Ultimate Life Form
29-03-2010, 15:29
If you change that name for convenience, don't be upset when some people don't agree with what you've decided is most convenient.

You finally got the point. I'm proud of you, son. :cries:

(Yes it was indeed a clever trap laid out by me... ;))