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avatarofportent
22-03-2010, 05:06
I'm 28 years old and have been playing this game for 14 years. I regularily play this teenager (14-15) down at the GW. I've never lost against him in the 7 games or so we've played. Then we played the Night Fight mission in Battle Missions and it was my daemons versus his Iron Warriors. The game was pretty much a slaughter against him. Around half way through the game I had destroyed 2/3rds of his army.

At that point I felt bad and I started to coach him on how he could use his rhinos to contest my objectives and use them to block my infantry from getting at his objectives. I then told him he could park his landraider CSM squad ontop of one objective taking it away from anyone else.

I started to make stupid mistakes on purpose and pulling my punches in assault by not throwing everything I had at him. He ended up winning 1-0 objectives with 2 contested cause the game ended on the turn that favored him.

Everyone was suprised that he won with only 6 marines and two damaged rhinos on the table where I had at least 1/2 my army left. But he got the win and he was happy, and I was happy for him. Kids aren't ever gonna get any wins if you don't build up their confidence alittle bit at least. Have any of you guys ever done that before?

Ork X
22-03-2010, 05:12
I got destroyed for the first 2 years i played.... I think it made me a better player

MadHatter
22-03-2010, 05:16
I would not throw a game on purpose, but if I find my opponent is having problems I will couch him through the game. And offer to help him/her with couching him through a game with a third person.

Not only is it good for sportmanship and the persons morale but also it make it much more fun when you do win if you do not just walk all over a person who is learning.

Wrath
22-03-2010, 05:18
I have pulled punches but never thrown a game. If an opponent is having problems then I explain to them as best I can where the holes in their game is. It is up to them to work out the rest.

That is how I learned and I think it really is the best way.

TitusAndronicus
22-03-2010, 05:22
I've never intentionally thrown a game but I am willing to coach as I play and so have lost some due to my inability to keep my eye on the ball.

Creeping Dementia
22-03-2010, 05:23
I've only really ever done it when showing people the ropes, theres not much point in slaughtering a brand new player.

If a guy is having trouble winning, then I'm glad to give tips, even mid-game, or play a doubles game with the guy, he'll learn a ton playing side by side with a vet. But throwing the game to falsely inflate someones ego, it doesn't help anyone, and he won't learn from it.

I'm hardcore against the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality that has been so popular for a while. IMO it's damaging to society and throwing a game is a similar situation. Help them, teach them, train them, but don't lie to them to make them feel better. I've been noticing a trend in the younger generation that are shocked if they actually lose which can turn to irrational anger, I think perhaps they've been living in a bubble of praise for too long.

Valkyrie114
22-03-2010, 05:31
It really depends on the person you are playing.

If I were starting off, personally, I wouldn't care if I lost consistently because that's what happens when you start a new game. If I figured out that the person was holding back, I would be thrilled but end up discouraged knowing that it wasn't my skill as a player that snagged me a win, it was the good will of my opponent.

However, there are quite a few people that I see on a reasonably frequent basis (namely younger players) that are particularly... Sensitive... to getting a royally stomped-upon. If I end up having to play a game, I would much rather allow the opponent to win or at least draw then crush them into dust. Its better for them because they get the satisfaction of winning for once against a "veteran" player, (most of my vet buds would crush their poor souls with ruleslawyer-hammer, a game I would rather not introduce to young minds) and I don't have to here them whine after because my silly Tau shot Marnius Calgar to pieces.

All-in-all, its more of a situational thing.

MajorWesJanson
22-03-2010, 05:37
I've never intentionally thrown a game but I am willing to coach as I play and so have lost some due to my inability to keep my eye on the ball.

I'm doing this for a friend.

Tenken
22-03-2010, 06:16
When I'm playing kids I'll pull my punches. I don't want to ruin their hobby, and let's be honest when you're playing a kid you have alot of advantages. Not least of which is experience, but height too. I think some people take for granted the birds eye view you see the table at, I've played kids who had to stand on their tippy toes just to get a look at my setup across the board.

I won't throw a game, but I will make obvious "mistakes" once in a while against kids to give them a chance. I also give them alot of leeway on do-overs. Normally I play once you're hand is off a model, or you declared something, it's happened. But playing against kids (or just new players) I'll let them take things back. I also give them advice on how to beat me sometimes. Like they'll make a move and if it's a really awful one I'll say something like "Are you sure? Because you could charge so-and-so or shoot at this thing instead."

The kids are in it for the fun mostly I'd think. And let's face it, it's no fun playing against someone more than twice your age and having them just murdalise you.

azimaith
22-03-2010, 06:29
I was destroyed in my early games for a very long time. I still get destroyed when I come back from a long hiatus or if I don't take a "competitive" list.

I get better and start winning again.

Pulling punches just leads to worse players who get destroyed by someone else. Its better to beat then help, than to be beaten and not help.

chromedog
22-03-2010, 06:32
I've 'pulled punches' in a game before.

When you are already beating your opponent and he cannot win (with the handful of troops he has left on the table), is there really any need to grind him into the dirt?

I'll take a narrow victory over a crushing walkover, anyday. Walkovers are not fun for either player (ymmv). The game is over too soon for the losing player to learn anything, and the winner player had no challenge. I was raised to believe that winning was more satisfying if you had to actually fight for it.

Wintersdark
22-03-2010, 06:38
I routinely played with subpar lists and deliberately did silly things to provide a... Say, hidden handicap to some players. Most frequently when showcasing the game/hobby to new players, or just noncompetetive ones.

It's important to be able to read your opponent, to find out if they care about being competitive or not. For example, a friend of mine loved to use my fantasy dark elf army and have a game against my goblins. I could have crushed her without effort, but then she wouldn't have any fun. She was interested in learning to play and basic strategy, but only to an extent.

So, I used it as an opportunity to play with fun lists, to have my greenskins behave as orky as possible. We both had tons of fun, she won about 50% of the games, and all was good.

Not everyone wants to be very competitive, or is sufficiently into the hobby to work that hard at learning. Some people just want to have some light fun playing a game with minimal investment.

Unfortunately, there are a suprisingly large number of intolerant ******s out there (note: that's not directed at anyone in this thread, I don't know any of you after all!) who can't - or won't - recognize that and dial back a bit. That just leads to thier opponents having a bad time, giving up, and perpetuating the whole "loser gamer geek" stereotype.

Blink
22-03-2010, 06:48
My friend is a VERY sore loser, so if I'm stomping him, I have to try and at least make it close so we can play another round, lest he rage quits. haha

Vesica
22-03-2010, 07:43
I have thrown games before to help boost a friends confidence.


Sometimes it can help them get into the game more.

Fobster
22-03-2010, 08:00
I let people beat me if I can see they aren't having fun with the hobby. It's not that big a deal to me but might be enough to keep them playing. If I'm winning I also don't try to all out wipe another player unless it's in a tourney.

Hoodwink
22-03-2010, 08:13
The problem with people pulling punches and throwing games is that the other player tends to build his tactics on how he wins.

"Ok so I won this game by moving my entire army in 1 big blob against Imperial Guard. I'll remember this next time..."

The problem develops when they use these tactics that would have normally gotten them smashed. Then they use it again, get smashed, and now they are back to phase one.

I'll coach someone. Give them advice if they are struggling. Do what I can to try and make the best of what they have. You can't fall into the catagory of sympathy for someone. You need to feel empathy. It sucks, but it makes you a better player.

If you stomp someone, show them what you did compared to what they did. Show them why what you did countered what they did. This is the same in chess - you will never get better by playing people who throw games or just plain suck. You get better by getting beat so much that you understand tactics people use and what works to counter it.

People are more prone to stay in the hobby if they are socializing and having fun playing with the people than just playing with a bunch of miniatures. Much more prone if they see people are helping them with tactics and whatnot on how to win. Throwing a game doesn't do that. Since you obviously know your own army better than the guy you crushed, tell him good units to take and good tactics to use.

All in all, people are too much about feelings. Life can suck. It's time to nut up or shutup. ;)

e2055261
22-03-2010, 09:55
I routinely played with subpar lists and deliberately did silly things to provide a... Say, hidden handicap to some players. Most frequently when showcasing the game/hobby to new players, or just noncompetetive ones.

It's important to be able to read your opponent, to find out if they care about being competitive or not. For example, a friend of mine loved to use my fantasy dark elf army and have a game against my goblins. I could have crushed her without effort, but then she wouldn't have any fun. She was interested in learning to play and basic strategy, but only to an extent.

So, I used it as an opportunity to play with fun lists, to have my greenskins behave as orky as possible. We both had tons of fun, she won about 50% of the games, and all was good.


Agreed. No one likes a white wash and if the end result's not in doubt make it a little more interesting. Use it as an opportunity to try out new stuff.

OP: also depends on the type of person you're trying to help. Nothing worse than 'letting a guy win' than the said fellow thinking he's some sort of tactical genius. Seen it happen many a time.

genestealer_baldric
22-03-2010, 10:27
this is a tricky one there is a guy whos been playing about 1 year now and i think hes only won two games 1 as a doubles and his team mate basically did everything and one other when his mate made a silly mistake and he won by 1 objective.

the problem is loads of us more experinced player have tryed to teach him and help him but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. I know Iam not GT super player but i genrraly do ok and win more than i loose.

This guy regually makes mistakes one of the sillyest recentley i saw was he was around 8" from a obejctive with a squad of 12 boys that would win him the game (this was turn 6) and there was abadon a some termis 10" the other and despite explaing running for the objective would be the best becuase you are quite likley to get it unless you roll realy bad on the run move he would win, so he charged abbadon who the slaughters and he looses again.

This guy dosnt learn i think every vet in club has at somepoint tryed to teach him how to play better and do better in games, i know i have and others have even tryed to help him rewrite better lists but to no avail.

it seems like he just dosnt listen ive seen him wiped out but turn 3 many times and he dosnt seem to respond to advice. Even when people do pull punches he seems to allways find the sillyest move to do.

jt.glass
22-03-2010, 11:59
I've never intentionally thrown a game, although given the massive losing streak I've been on lately, the chance would be a fine thing!

I'm not sure if I ever would. Cartainly I wouldn't appreciate it if anyone did it against me (and I realised).


jt.

Gaargod
22-03-2010, 12:09
I coach all the time. There's a couple of guys especially who need it (they just don't see potential moves). With my friends, who don't mind, i also occasionally comment on games - even to the extent of, with an opponent's permission, pointing out why a particular move is idiotic. Only with friends though, otherwise people see shenanigans.

I also spend a lot of time helping to write army lists. Its an interesting challenge for me (i ended up writing a large gondor list last time i was in GW, which i would never normally use) and giving advice like that. Again, the better players amongst my friends don't need so much help, but a little bit of advice on what i think works and what doesn't is always appreciated.


Pulling punches... basically never unless its a complete beginner. I'd prefer for them to learn either by a) seeing what i do and copying b) learning from their mistakes or c) having it pointed out for them and learning from that.

Eldoriath
22-03-2010, 13:33
Yeah, I have done it regurarly, and on tournaments even. Though at those I do it after the game is finished, giving him tips on what he could have done instead and things he has to think about/remember when meeting my army.

As for pick-up games I tend to make a quick evaluation about the "kids" performance and then build my list into a dis-advantage based on how skillfull I deem him to be and then coach him a bit through the game, mostly pointing out the big mistakes and big "should-do" and leave the rest for him. Often it becomes a good game, sometimes I loose and sometimes I win, but it's always good fun =)

Norsehawk
22-03-2010, 13:34
I would never throw a game. I might play sub optimally, however I would be more likely to just give a good post game autopsy as to what the turning points or major tactical mistakes were in the game. So that in the future, they will be more aware of tactics. Having easy wins all the time is not fun at all.

The Highlander
22-03-2010, 13:36
I played a good few years ago against a kid with DE, and I’d won by turn 2 (his army was stuck in the middle of an open field facing an IG gun line). I stopped the game, put some more scenery on the board and give him some good advice. The result was one of the best games I’ve played, which ended in a draw (I had a chimera left, he had a talos). Much more fun for both of us than a turkey shoot.

I always let a beginner win the first game when I’m teaching them (take less points then them, give them lost of advice, don’t use some of my army’s special rules). If they end up getting cocky about it, then I play then again and don’t hold back.

Whitehorn
22-03-2010, 13:47
I've 'pulled punches' in a game before.


This.

I grew up by losing to my brother all the time and learned to play the hard way :)

Lord Damocles
22-03-2010, 13:59
Only ever done it knowingly in a couple of games against players who were just learning the ropes.

Sadly my attempts to illustrate close combat saw six Harlequins defeated and run down by three Scarab bases...

AndrewGPaul
22-03-2010, 14:06
I'm usually on the recieving end of a good thrashing, but if I were in the position of being about to win in turn 1 or at the top of turn 2, I'll often choose not to do so. I'd rather have one good long game than several one-sdied short ones.

Nurglitch_PS
22-03-2010, 14:12
Never. For me it's treating the opponent with contempt. I would hate to be treated this way and would never do anything but my best - unless it was a coaching game.

gitburna
22-03-2010, 15:29
I have a friend who has a fragile ego. If he gets beaten too bad he loses interest, meaning I'm out of a game and twiddling my thumbs for a month or two :rolleyes:

As a result I find that it's generally best if I try and play an experimental list, as the last time I saw the guy, my brother tabled his necron list in two turns using a daemon army (which wasn't even that hardcore)...

Funny thing was he was sure that he did everything right, perfect set up and blah blah blah - No, it just invited you to get surrounded and assaulted in short order with nowhere to go...

nightgant98c
22-03-2010, 16:14
I don't pull punches against beginners, but if I'm already in a position to win, I won't go out of my way to make it worse on them. Now if you're not a beginner, I'll go for the throat.

sliganian
22-03-2010, 18:13
Question for OP: What if your opponent is a Wookie? Have you heard of any advice on this?

Troah
22-03-2010, 18:21
Sadly I would be considered the 'kid' in your story, but I've never had anyone hold back.

Wintersdark
22-03-2010, 18:21
Agreed. No one likes a white wash and if the end result's not in doubt make it a little more interesting. Use it as an opportunity to try out new stuff.

OP: also depends on the type of person you're trying to help. Nothing worse than 'letting a guy win' than the said fellow thinking he's some sort of tactical genius. Seen it happen many a time.

This is very true. It's why you need to read your opponent, need to know how much to pull back, and if you should at all. Many more serious players need to be soundly beaten to learn, and the occasional "tactical genius" needs to be.. Educated :)

Agnar the Howler
22-03-2010, 18:50
Nope, never. I don't challenge beginners, but i'll sometimes help out with the beginner sessions (especially 40K because they have a alrge influx of players) every Sunday so that kids get the knowledge they need. Far too many kids are let loose on the gaming scene who know nothing apart from that their big blue land crusher tank has 4 big laser guns that kill everything and has a large machine gun at the front that also kills everything.

If someone is having a hard time, i'll give them my opinion on the matter, and tell them what to do to counter any potential moves (always pointing out the most dangerous ones and the ones i'm more likely to use) or tell them what to do to try and win, but i'll never hold back. If they don't follow my advice, that's fine, but if they do, then holding back just makes them think that what happened will happen every time. At least by giving it my all I can show them what happens in a real game. If it all goes horribly bad for him, i'll ask him if he wants to replay that turn with a different tactic, but again, I won't hold back.

If you teach someone to go through their games expecting it to be easy, then there's gunna be a large let-down at some point. At least by not holding back and coaching them through the times when all seems lost (such as trying to scrape a draw and not to always count things out) I can paint a picture of what they can expect, and they can learn from it and adapt it to their own play style. How're they going to learn what to do in a situation where they can't win if they've been winning in every game you played with them? Especially if it's against another person. You can't be there on the sidelines like a football coach.

I say prepare them for the worst but teach them to be the best you can help them to be, even let them watch a few games you play against other people to learn advanced tactics that can't normally be taught.

You might call me a bit of a tight **** for not holding back, and that's fine, but it's what works for me at the moment.

Vepr
22-03-2010, 19:13
I never hold back but depending on who I am playing I will experiment with lists that do not exactly have the best chance of winning. I like changing my lists up so it generally ends up being more fun and sometimes I get wins with lists no one would ever consider taking in a competitive environment. :)

LonelyPath
22-03-2010, 19:30
I never just throw the game away on purpose, but I will spmetimes point out alternate tactics for my opponent that would work more effectively against me, or if they really want to open fire on this squad instead of that one, coz this one is in position to slaughter that squad over there next turn, etc. I will do alot to help an opponent, but I'll also alter my own plans to compensate equally. Afte ra few games like that I've found they're more familiar with my army and theirs (if I know their army well and give them tis on using it) making for more exciting, closer games.

If an opponent is losing really badly though, I'll pull a few punches, like taking on a different squad that the one I wanted to, 1 regular opponent of mine has told me to stop doing that as it makes him feel bad because I feel bad for beating him so badly, lol.

Heimagoblin
22-03-2010, 19:38
I havn't ever pulled back on a game before. What I do is at the end of the phase go back, show them what I would have done then ask them why I I have moved/shot/assaulted the way I did.

Dr.Clock
22-03-2010, 19:40
I really only have one opponent...

but our records swing... alot.

For about three years after we started gaming, I don't think I won a game.

Recently (the past two-ish years) I've won most of our games... probably 70% with 20% ties.

A couple weeks ago he 'won' his first game in about a year.

We played our second planetstrike game... my first as defender... with a random mission.

Needless to say, with his objective being to destroy my bastions (3 of them) and with an entire tyranid army armed with melta-bombs as a mission special rule, the game was basically over on turn 2. Granted, he got exceptionally lucky, smoking a bastion a turn with his 3 hive guard - but this was frustrating for both of us.

Instead, we determined that the eldar didn't really care about the structures they were defending and that we would move to holding objectives instead of adhering to the rules in the book. Under the new mission, I squeaked a win... so we called it a draw.

If things are clearly one-sided, the game is no longer any fun. We could have packed up the models at turn 3, but a 3000 point battle takes alot of preparation and we wanted the armies to actually fight instead of three buildings falling and everyone running away.

My advice? don't do things like this without telling your opponent - and don't do things that are out of character for the lists. Just 'forgetting' your shooting and assaults is ridiculous (although we all do it accidentally from time to time). Changing the stakes so that your opponent can claim a moral victory will help them gain confidence and learn how to take care of tactical questions as the game progresses.

Some sort of Deus Ex Machina event could also occur. I like the idea of adding some terrain if your opponent needs it etc. You could also suggest that you'll admit defeat if the opponent can complete a task easier than crippling your force: point at your Captain and say "if you kill that model, you win" or simply remove some objectives that you have totally locked down. The opponent will still have to work for it - as you will be trying to keep your model alive/redirect to the other objects - but they won't give up, and you'll be able to truly say that you both fought your hardest.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor

Marshal Augustine
22-03-2010, 19:56
I have thrown games against newer players. Sure! Its not just making mistakes on purpose... its just not using all the tricks of da trade, helping them out with tactical choices and not taking a tough list. The combination of those factors usually makes for a more fun and interesting game and will give them the desire to learn... I was personally owned every time as a newb... but learned quickly... at the same time I have some sour memories of back in the day.

RoguePariah
22-03-2010, 20:17
The people I regularly play against are intelligent players. I refuse to insult that intelligence by implying that I need to play at a lower level in order to give them a chance at winning. I generally assume they would know if I were throwing the game, and who really wants to win because your opponent felt sorry for you.

Having said that, if I notice someone is routinely playing at a level below my own, I tend to begin thinking out loud to myself to give my opponent a little insight about the tactics available to them. I don't dumb down my tactics at all, and I refuse to purposely make mistakes, but if I think out loud saying "if I do this, I'm afraid you'll do that, and if I do this you could do that." I think of it as coaching without telling them "you should do this", which can be just as insulting as throwing the game.

edit: it should be noted that I rarely play against new players and the above is how I deal with average or slightly below average players who just can't seem to win with adequate lists. Poor list design is a separate issue altogether and is usually discussed after the game.

Sunfang
22-03-2010, 20:52
Some interesting points.

I like some of your suggestions Dr. As I am re-teaching someone who hasnt played since 3rd edition. He is smart enough to know if I am throwing a game but also dosnt know about a lot fo his own strengths and weakness of his units let alone mine. In the beginning I simply took tonned down lists. Once he learned that i began taking a huge variety of just random things with no cohesion. Now we are at the point that he knows what everything does but ahsnt experienced tactical cohesion. This is where things get rough...I remember learning the hard way and am a better player for it but I dont want him to just get frustrated either.

totgeboren
22-03-2010, 21:33
I sometimes do it even against veterans. If it looks like I might be able to wipe him out, I tend to start "forgetting" to move units and other such stuff.

I enjoy close fought games, it's that simple. If I need to pull back to get that, that's what I will do.

Repentant Son
22-03-2010, 22:32
No, I have better ways to teach younglins though.

For example, I place a five man TH + SS termi unit in the center of the board. I surround it on all sides with tacticals with a variety of weapons, including flamers, plasma, Rocket Launchers, and lots of Bolters. I demonstrate the various effects of the weapons, as well as the sheer surviving power of the termies.

Mix and match against other units, teaching them flamers = good against hordes, plasma = good against marines.

Next comes Assault phase :evilgrin:

the1stpip
23-03-2010, 00:09
I dont make mistakes, but I wont play to my full potential if I am playing a new player, and I will explain exactly why I am doing things.

Sir_Lunchalot
23-03-2010, 00:58
I've thrown games before - back when I was running demo games at my local GW, outside of that no. I'll definitely do some coaching if I'm playing a friend and they're doing poorly. Helping someone else with tactics yes, actually giving up just so they can pretend they won, no.

I might handicap myself before a game by using a weaker army and leave my tournament list on the shelf, or something like that, but even then that's rare. I spend a lot of time playing against opponents who are better than me and I wouldn't want them to intentionally throw a game by doing outright stupid things. If there's no challenge or strategy needed to win, I might as well just sit in my basement and throw dice and push minis around on my own. The whole point of the minatures game is to play against a challenging opponent.

Setesh
23-03-2010, 02:44
I lost for ages when I first started - thats how you learn. being handed victories won't do anyone any good - only advice and experience.

Firmlog
23-03-2010, 05:04
In a tournament: Never, but I don't really play tourny's anymore.

In a one off game, not likely, but I generally won't play people under 16.

In a regular game against a regular opponent I beat regularly, I will coach him and explain what I'm doing and how it will hurt him, I may even pull a punch or two if they have lost every game against me.

Against and Experienced opponent or one with a "broken" build list, I won't pull punches and only explain his mistakes after the fact, when it can't be undone.

3 0f 6
23-03-2010, 09:10
In a tournament: Never, but I don't really play tourny's anymore.

In a one off game, not likely, but I generally won't play people under 16.

In a regular game against a regular opponent I beat regularly, I will coach him and explain what I'm doing and how it will hurt him, I may even pull a punch or two if they have lost every game against me.

Against and Experienced opponent or one with a "broken" build list, I won't pull punches and only explain his mistakes after the fact, when it can't be undone.

Yeah, In tournies I would never throw a game..... I do however, help my opponent/remind them of units that have not fired (including battle cannons etc)

I tend not to play against anyone under 16, as that is the lowest age allowed in tournies (though I may add I played a 12 year old at one cause he "won" a ticket to the event in store.......oops LFGW staff!)

Gotta love your third point, It is awesome to kill a "broken" or "net power list" and then let them know how they used it wrong afterwards.

I have to say though, I hate having stupid mistakes pointed out to me when I lose a game cause of them.......LOL

Ivellis
23-03-2010, 09:25
I play with a close group of friends, and not to be arrogant, but I'm by far the best at any tabletop game we play. But I love gaming and it gets tiring always having people get upset with you winning every single game. So I throw a lot of games to encourage them to keep playing and I have a lot more fun too. I try to balance it out though, if I throw too many games I lose my skill at it.

Not that I don't coach them too, of course.

And I do have one friend who has become something of a chess prodigy. I used to win every single game, and then suddenly one day he just won, we were both surprised and confused. He hasn't lost a game to me since, and has beaten several near pro players. It's kind of odd actually, he doesn't even think his moves through. :p

genestealer_baldric
23-03-2010, 10:01
i dont see why everyone is adamnt about allways wining i have and i know mates who on encountering some people who are new and getting board of the game by being beaten all the time someones basically making them win can boost morale and we want more people in this hobby not if your not great straight away look else where.

Mojaco
23-03-2010, 10:02
What I usually do is tell people in their own turn what I'll do to counter what they're doing. That allows them to see the consequences of their actions very directly, and decide on which course of action will be most acceptable to them.

Lothlanathorian
23-03-2010, 10:18
I will give advice to an opponent who is making a lot of mistakes due to lack of experience. If I am playing someone newer to the game or who hasn't gotten a firm grasp on it yet, I will give them advice, tell them what I would do in their situation, tell them what it looks like they should anticipate from me, sometimes I'll even tell them exactly what I am planning to do with my army so he can learn to think what his opponent is thinking, but I never pull punches.

Generally, if I am helping someone to learn how to play, I pay more attention to what I am doing and actually come at them a lot harder than I would in a normal friendly game, but not because I am after a victory, I am teaching them. To get them to see everything I could do, I can't pull my punches or take it easier on them because then they wouldn't learn.

I do, however, make sure they are having fun. I am not chastising them or being a total out-for-blood dick that no one would want to play. If I am in a friendly game and they don't want advice or help and I was walking all over them, then I wouldn't pull my punches. After the game, however, I would talk to them about it and tell them where they could have done things differently and made the game less one-sided (assuming the dice gods weren't just being cruel to him).

*SQUEE*
23-03-2010, 10:22
Never thrown a game but I like to occasionally play for a tie. I find it much harder to plan for a draw then a win. And when I do both players are happy at the close fought game.

Fear is the mind killer
23-03-2010, 10:31
If you had simply thrown the game then you would have been doing him a disservice. However, since your actions involved teaching him to be better at playing the game and you put the enjoyment of both players ahead of your competitiveness I think that you have done a very admirable deed.

Skarsgard
23-03-2010, 10:37
I have thrown only one game in 16 years. One of my mates had never beaten me and we played two games on his wedding day (we don't do golf), and I threw the second game.

He was so happy but has never played 40K again. :(

Lothlanathorian
23-03-2010, 10:42
Hey, at least he went out on a good note. You did him a solid.

GimpMaster
23-03-2010, 11:02
Played a game against a guy who had been playing for a month....he was using ultramarines....i was using the 3.5 chaos codex....

i whooped his **** so bad he quit 3/4ths through the game and sold his army...


pure awesome sauce

I'm not throwing anything for your enjoyment....if you cry....i go home a happy man

Galatan
23-03-2010, 11:15
What I usually do is tell people in their own turn what I'll do to counter what they're doing. That allows them to see the consequences of their actions very directly, and decide on which course of action will be most acceptable to them.

As I'm a lazy typer in the morning...This.

I've never really on purpose held back in a game. Not because I want to grind my opponents to dirt, but because I know that if they don't learn from me, somebody else will do it and maybe not be such a good sport. At least I try to make it a learning experience for my opponent.

genestealer_baldric
23-03-2010, 11:53
Played a game against a guy who had been playing for a month....he was using ultramarines....i was using the 3.5 chaos codex....

i whooped his **** so bad he quit 3/4ths through the game and sold his army...


pure awesome sauce

I'm not throwing anything for your enjoyment....if you cry....i go home a happy man

and unless your joking YOU are bad player i refer to the makers of the "GAMES workshop" of course being competative is fine but the aim is to have fun for both players, its a game its not about who can be the biggest *$%.

GrimZAG
23-03-2010, 12:03
All I'm hearing is weakness from the players that throw a game.

Grand Warlord
23-03-2010, 14:06
I have had people throw games against me and it really ruins the win. I have been in college for the past 3 years (thank god thats over, now the job hunt begins) so I don't have any consistent gaming or I have't had a chance to learn this newest edition. So I think pulling your battle plans is ok, coaching or helping a developing player is awesome but throwing a game really tarnishes it for the other player.

Blue Orphen
23-03-2010, 14:23
Op - Maybe there's more to this than just him being a bad player.

Take a look at the lists you use, compared to the lists he uses. If he's a 14 year old, there's a chance he may be using what he owns, which probably includes some sub-optimal units or models.

If you are using a competitive list versus his "everything I've got" list, then switching your own list around might go a long way towards making games more fun.

If you're 28, you probably have more resources to devote to the hobby and have a larger collection of models to choose from. Maybe try a few themed lists? You play Daemons, so you already have four theme options to choose from (Mono-god). You might find that taking a slightly less "serious" list makes for a better game.

I usually use CSM, and my opponent has a lot of trouble with things in the army. I started using "sub-par" choices, like Chaos Dreads, because I figured it would be more fun. Now, I love them, and regularly field them. They don't dominate games the same as, say, a Daemon Prince does, but they are more fun for both of us.

Nasha
23-03-2010, 22:12
Im much more of a painter/converter than a gamer despite being in the hobby for 11 years.....i believe my proper game (in a GW) was back when the DA were released....but i learnt several valuable lessons during the time i got my ass handed to me..
1 - Unlike IG, Marines arent very squishy in combat
2 - it seems that all Marine players (me included) belive they are GOD in the eyes of other players
3 - Being "allowed" to win a game against a much more experianced opponent sucked more than being wiped the floor with

i mean why would i enjoy my opponent allowing me to win? sorry but instead of losing on purpose jst help me out...not in the sarcastic ways that the lil 13 year old 2 year "veterans" do though....in a nice sympathetic way

theres my two-peneth

kerby

Hicks
23-03-2010, 23:32
I sometimes will if the game is too much in my favor and the other guy just doesn't have fun anymore.

I won't blatantly try to loose though as this would be an insult to the other player. I will just start to do more careless stuff like try charging targets I'm not sure I can reach instead of safer targets, or choose epic over logic.

MadHatter
24-03-2010, 09:25
[QUOTE=Blue Orphen;4508056]Op - Maybe there's more to this than just him being a bad player.

Take a look at the lists you use, compared to the lists he uses. If he's a 14 year old, there's a chance he may be using what he owns, which probably includes some sub-optimal units or models.

If you are using a competitive list versus his "everything I've got" list, then switching your own list around might go a long way towards making games more fun.

QUOTE]

I want to expand on this just a touch. If a person is playing with just every thing he has, maybe you should cut the points down by a third of what he has so its a little more competive list. While yes its a smaller game, he will have the ability to choose models which tactical. Help him with chosing a competive list for your guys game.