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Sir Phobos
24-03-2010, 06:41
One of my freinds is starting a Lamenters Army using the new Blood Angels Codex, when it comes out, and I was wondering what should he include? I know some of you have read it and from a fluff perspective I know no Death Company, but I don't know what else to tell him to disclude / include?

GrimZAG
24-03-2010, 07:48
Make sure he includes bad luck.

havokas
24-03-2010, 08:04
Lexi - The Lamenters were one of the chapters created in the Twenty First Founding, which has afterwards become known as the Cursed Founding. Some in the Imperium believe that the Lamenters' inception was an attempt to utilize the Primarch Sanguinius's strain of gene-seed, breeding out the deficiencies known to mar that otherwise superior DNA. If true, the experiment seems to have been successful in its objectives, as the Lamenters do not suffer from the Black Rage associated with the Blood Angels-descendant chapters. They also adhere to the Codex Astartes. Although free of the curse of the Blood Angels, the Lamenters are seemingly cursed in another way, suffering the most appalling twists of ill fortune and tragedy.

so basic if he really wants to paint yellow then play imperial fists, lamenters aren't really blood angels. there's plenty of other BA decedents who are actually red. : Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermilion, Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Flesh Eaters, Lamenters, Blood Legion, Blood Swords, Red Wings

tristessa
24-03-2010, 10:23
so basic if he really wants to paint yellow then play imperial fists, lamenters aren't really blood angels. there's plenty of other BA decedents who are actually red. : [B]Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermilion, Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Flesh Eaters, Lamenters, Blood Legion, Blood Swords, Red Wings

They (Lamenters) are both mentioned and pictured as BA successors in the new BA codex though, and it says all successor chapters maintain the BA specialists like Sanguinary guard and the like...

Not to mention that you've included Lamenters in your list there!

I built a lamenters army last year out of the marine codex - lots of veterans and terminators. Basically, the troops that would still be alive following a mauling at the hands of the hivefleet. Deepstriking troops too, because they were are a fleet based chapter. Dropships agogo!

CrownAxe
24-03-2010, 10:25
The only thing Lamenters don't have is Death Company. They maintain all normal BA practices

So go ahead

The pestilent 1
24-03-2010, 10:30
so basic if he really wants to paint yellow then play imperial fists, lamenters aren't really blood angels. there's plenty of other BA decedents who are actually red. : Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermilion, Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Flesh Eaters, Lamenters, Blood Legion, Blood Swords, Red Wings

You do realise the Lamenters are in that list right?

Lord Damocles
24-03-2010, 10:31
You could even use Lamenters 'Death Company' to represent Cursed Knights and/or Abominations.

Cpt_Baughan
24-03-2010, 10:40
Well if you really want to convay the theme of Lamenters use the Chaos codex and have them led by Huron Blackheart because they are just a bunch of renegades after all ;)

But other than that very limited use of Black Rage themed units where possible or theming them differently and trying to convay a limited numbers and resources feel as they are a tiny chapter who have had terrible luck and are on a hundred year crusade of penitants, I would therefore use quite elite units to keep the numbers low and show what it takes to survive their bad luck.

qwertywraith
24-03-2010, 18:58
I like the Lamenter's paint scheme a lot, but if I were to do them I think they would be best represented using the standard marine codex. The older fluff is supposed to have eliminated the red thirst entirely at the cost of making them "unlucky". However, the Blood Angels codex is fine for them, and being able to use Stormraven gunships is pretty cool.

sabreu
24-03-2010, 19:08
Im not so sure that's a good route. As everything else in this game, fiction becomes fact, so basically your friend is going to start rolling alot of 1's when he doesn't want to, and 5-6 for leadership tests.

Inquisitor Engel
24-03-2010, 21:09
Well if you really want to convay the theme of Lamenters use the Chaos codex and have them led by Huron Blackheart because they are just a bunch of renegades after all ;)

The Lamenters were forgiven for their involvement in the Badab war and completed their petitence crusade. They were given a new banner, remade by an Adeptus Soritas convent, who cried while stitching it. It is known as the Banner of Tears.

Gimp
24-03-2010, 21:20
Wait I thought the Lamenters also had a gene seed flaw that made them more prone to depression.

Grarg
24-03-2010, 21:29
Nope, Lamentors are a Blood Angel successor that has the gene curse (black rage/blood thirst) removed, but they suffer from extreme case of bad luck.

Doom Eagles are the ones that you might be thinking of.

Gimp
25-03-2010, 01:02
Nope, Lamentors are a Blood Angel successor that has the gene curse (black rage/blood thirst) removed, but they suffer from extreme case of bad luck.

Doom Eagles are the ones that you might be thinking of.

Seems you are right but I could have sworn saw something about Lamentors being emo somewhere. Fits with the name as well.

someone2040
25-03-2010, 08:09
I'd use them as Codex Space Marines. If you want to include shinies like the Sanguinary Guard, I'd make them Vanguard Veterans.
You can squeeze basically everything in Blood Angels into Codex Marines anyway apart from Libby Dreads and the StormRaven. Since Lamenters aren't affected by the Black Rage/Red Thirst no need for Death Company or Death Co Dreads.

Then all you need are special yellow dice, that have the 1 replaced by "Bad Luck" and you're set.

sliganian
25-03-2010, 18:48
Huhm. And here I thought all the Lamenters were killed in a Last Stand against a Nid horde.

baphomael
25-03-2010, 19:20
Wait I thought the Lamenters also had a gene seed flaw that made them more prone to depression.

I remember something about them being prone to melancholy, but I'm not so sure thats a genetic flaw (you'd be pretty melancholic too if everything you did went horribly, horribly, wrong).


Huhm. And here I thought all the Lamenters were killed in a Last Stand against a Nid horde.

Not all of them, they were reduced to roughly 300 marines.

Leftenant Gashrog
25-03-2010, 19:52
I believe the 300 was superceded by the 4th edition Tyranid codex stating that little more than a company remained.

Icarus
25-03-2010, 21:39
Seems you are right but I could have sworn saw something about Lamentors being emo somewhere. Fits with the name as well.

They're not emo, but they are kind of... melancholy. Although I love the Lamenters, I always struggle to imagine how an *unhappy* marine appears, as they tend to be all emotionless and psycho normally. Really really grim-attitude marines I guess. Its not clear however if their melancholia is a genetic problem, or if its simply an understandable result of all the bad things that have happened to them. However, they do supposedly give off a kind of aura of doom, they even used to have rules to represent it.

As to the original question, they are described as Codex, but then again, the Blood Angels are pretty much Codex just with a few specialised units. No reason you can't use the BA rules, just avoid any Death Company units at all costs. If you roll a 1 for Red Thirst it could be explained as the aura of doom taking full effect.

TBH I think the designers of the BA codex did have Lamenters in mind. Why else in Sanguinius's name would they include Sternguard in an otherwise assault-crazy codex? So here's some thing I would recommend taking for Lamenters:

Honour Guard with Chapter Banner - to represent the Banner of Tears.
Librarians and Librarian Dreadnoughts with the Fear of Darkness power - it really suits their fluff.
Sanguinary Priests - Feel No Pain also seems to fit the Lamenters very well.
Sternguard: Lamenters are nid-killing experts, Sternguard excel in using special weapons to kill aliens. It works.
Tycho: Would fit reasonably well. If you're luck your friends might let you take Preferred Enemy: Tyranids instead of Orks.
Terminators: Because they are the most likely to still be alive.
Scouts: Desperate attempts to rebuild the chapter.
Stormravens and Drop Pods: As they are a fleet-based chapter. Also I imagine they would favour surgical strieks over standing engaements in order to preserve their numbers.

Damn.... I might have to make a Lamenters army now you've got me thinking about it!

Inquisitor Engel
26-03-2010, 00:08
If you roll a 1 for Red Thirst it could be explained as the aura of doom taking full effect.


I could go for that. The unit receives bad intelligence or garbled radio and acts on it to their doooooooooom.

Tourniquet
26-03-2010, 01:23
I could go for that. The unit receives bad intelligence or garbled radio and acts on it to their doooooooooom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqcn_TPu4qQ

The Thirst rule (rolling the 1) could be used to represent the aura of doom they used to have.
Though FC adds +1I +1S. it could be shown to represent how they react slower to the marines and cant defend as well (explaining the+1I for marines and +1S)

have fun with the yellow and the checkers!

Icarus
26-03-2010, 23:40
Certainly is a fun paint scheme. I'm not sure if it necessarily fits their fluff tho. Bright yellow and a heart symbol = angst marines?

Leftenant Gashrog
26-03-2010, 23:46
Though FC adds +1I +1S. it could be shown to represent how they react slower to the marines and cant defend as well (explaining the+1I for marines and +1S)


:wtf: you do realise that +1I is a bonus not a penalty right?

Tourniquet
27-03-2010, 01:12
Certainly is a fun paint scheme. I'm not sure if it necessarily fits their fluff tho. Bright yellow and a heart symbol = angst marines?

Its a bleeding heart


:wtf: you do realise that +1I is a bonus not a penalty right?

Its a penalty to the other guys :p
basically showing the aura of doom having a negative effect on the enemy b them not being able to hit back as fast/defend themselves as well.
hey iw as strething for an explanation to help the guy out ^.^

Joewrightgm
27-03-2010, 03:51
The Lamenters were forgiven for their involvement in the Badab war and completed their petitence crusade. They were given a new banner, remade by an Adeptus Soritas convent, who cried while stitching it. It is known as the Banner of Tears.

But remember also that elements of the Mantis Warriors, Executioners, and Lamenters followed the Astral Claws into the Maelstrom. Of course, you would use the Chaos Codex with the Red Corsairs paint scheme.

Which would kind of defeat what the OP is trying to do . . . :shifty::p

Magos Explorator
27-03-2010, 10:01
Certainly is a fun paint scheme. I'm not sure if it necessarily fits their fluff tho. Bright yellow and a heart symbol = angst marines?

I have seen several references to Lamenters being angsty, melancholy or 'emo' (which as an aside is a term I don't quite get, must be getting old!) posted on the boards--where does this come from? As far as I was aware they were just very unlucky, as opposed to whiny or morose.

(Not asking Icarus in particular; as I say it's a comment I've heard made a lot, so am curious as to where it comes from.)

Icarus
27-03-2010, 14:50
Its a bleeding heart

I know but when you actually look at the painted marines its easy to see just a load of marines with care bear hearts painted on them. Kind of ruins the effect. Thats part of why I like Aventine's Lamenters - he focuses on just the checker pattern: http://crusadedude40k.blogspot.com/search/label/Lamenters


I have seen several references to Lamenters being angsty, melancholy or 'emo' (which as an aside is a term I don't quite get, must be getting old!) posted on the boards--where does this come from? As far as I was aware they were just very unlucky, as opposed to whiny or morose.

I'm rather annoyed I can't find it. There used to be a GW article on the cursed founding chapters that described them as being morose, although the commentator says it is unclear if this is a genetic trait or just a result of all the bad things that have befallen them.

Their bad luck is NOT a genetic trait, despite any silly things you may hear bandied about on forums. However there is a hint in the article described above that their bad luck may be a kind of curse for messing around with the geneseed of Sanguinius.