PDA

View Full Version : The Hobbit Movies possibly even more delayed



Archibald_TK
29-03-2010, 21:09
As seen on IO9 (http://io9.com/5504179/is-the-hobbit-delayed-yet-again)


Rumors are swirling around Peter Jackson and Guillermo Del Toro's Hobbit. Have MGM's financial troubles pushed back The Hobbit's production even more? Will we ever get something better than the 70s cartoon?

TheOneRing.net has a disheartening report about the lack of progress on the live action Hobbit film. According to their source, the financial woes at MGM have put the brakes on the highly anticipated feature.

Even though the studio has a contract with Warner Brothers to make two Hobbit films and has the rights to distribution, their massive debt is delaying any progress.

" At this stage we are all working and hoping for the best case scenario. Without a doubt, the MGM situation carries great importance."

People have speculated that the we'll see the film late 2011 or early 2012, but with news like this, we can see the release date getting pushed even further back. At this stage we'll all just have to wait and see. Lionsgate didn't end up purchasing MGM, like everyone predicted. And no one thinks MGM will be happy with the left-over bidders, so it's difficult to tell when this will all get sorted out.

It pains me that we'll probably have to wait even more in order to see these movies.
I wonder what the implications will be for GW. Since I'm not a LotR player I don't follow closely how GW handle that license so maybe the status of the movie will have no impact on it. But with nothing to revitalize that universe on the big screen in the following years may GW consider that renewing the license is no longer worth the investment?

PS.
That's a real question, not a stab at LotR. I'm not part of the LotR hating crowd and I'm totally neutral regarding that game system.

destroyerlord
29-03-2010, 21:50
I honestly doubt a 24 month delay will deter GW from one of their core systems. Though it is unfortunate news that someone elses debt is slowing down the Hobbit movies, for which I am rather keen.

Condottiere
29-03-2010, 22:50
What I find surprising is that Warner outsourced The Hobbit - they either don't have the resources themselves to continue the franchise or aren't confident on it's ROI.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
30-03-2010, 03:53
What I find surprising is that Warner outsourced The Hobbit - they either don't have the resources themselves to continue the franchise or aren't confident on it's ROI.

I totally agree. With the Lord of the Rings films being such a huge cash cow, what about the Hobbit did the studio feel wasn't going to be bringing in the bucks? Probably the lack of studly male leads like Vigo.

Condottiere
30-03-2010, 08:21
Rather like Arwen, they could expand the roles of various Wood Elves and Dalesmen.

Midloo
30-03-2010, 16:35
What I find surprising is that Warner outsourced The Hobbit - they either don't have the resources themselves to continue the franchise or aren't confident on it's ROI.

Gosh I'd hate to believe that. Seems pretty short-sided considering the fact that this is a highly anticipated pair of films and Del Toro produces amazing visions on the cheap.

Rykion
30-03-2010, 18:42
What I find surprising is that Warner outsourced The Hobbit - they either don't have the resources themselves to continue the franchise or aren't confident on it's ROI.
Warner Brothers never had the distribution rights to the Hobbit. United Artists bought the movie rights for the Hobbit and the LotR from JRR Tolkien in 1968. In 1976 United Artists sold all the movie rights, except the Hobbit distribution rights, to the Saul Zaentz Company. In 1981 MGM acquired United Artists and the distribution rights to the Hobbit. WB had to team up with MGM or buy/license the distribution rights from them to be able to release the Hobbit. It was never about outsourcing or resources.

nagash66
30-03-2010, 18:55
Warner Brothers never had the distribution rights to the Hobbit. United Artists bought the movie rights for the Hobbit and the LotR from JRR Tolkien in 1968. In 1976 United Artists sold all the movie rights, except the Hobbit distribution rights, to the Saul Zaentz Company. In 1981 MGM acquired United Artists and the distribution rights to the Hobbit. WB had to team up with MGM or buy/license the distribution rights from them to be able to release the Hobbit. It was never about outsourcing or resources.

Interesting never new that.

Condottiere
30-03-2010, 18:56
Contractual obligations between Warner and the swallowed up New Line, with MGM must be more complicated. Usually the legal departments anticipate possible defaults, and in this marriage of convenience, Warner must have stipulated penalties for a delay in the project, since someone has to pay for production, and delays usually cost more than they are worth.

The above story reads as if Warner outsourced everything to MGM; but this new information twists it around as if MGM outsourced production to Warner, and that they need to pay Warner at least part of the running production cost.

Rykion
30-03-2010, 19:22
Contractual obligations between Warner and the swallowed up New Line, with MGM must be more complicated. Usually the legal departments anticipate possible defaults, and in this marriage of convenience, Warner must have stipulated penalties for a delay in the project, since someone has to pay for production, and delays usually cost more than they are worth.

The above story reads as if Warner outsourced everything to MGM; but this new information twists it around as if MGM outsourced production to Warner, and that they need to pay Warner at least part of the running production cost.
They're still in pre-production. The story IO9 linked to at the One Ring.net says that they haven't even allocated funding yet.
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/03/27/35768-source-mgm-situation-of-great-importance-to-the-hobbit-films/
I've never seen anything online that explains the exact partnership for production of the Hobbit between WB and MGM. As long as MGM is up for sale/has massive debt, I suspect the Hobbit will remain in limbo. :(

IllidanStormrage
30-03-2010, 21:46
They are also releasing a new LOTR RPG game for the 360 PC,and PS3 next year. I think the company thought the movie would come out in 2011 like it was supposed nor late fall 2012. Hopefully this doesn't get pushed back too.

polymphus
30-03-2010, 22:44
A lot of it seems to be that Jackson and Del Torro want to spend as much time tooling around Wellington as they can. I keep seeing them about and wondering whether they should be working on the film or not.

Condottiere
31-03-2010, 08:02
If they feel that the studio is screwing them around, they may just do the same to the studio, and then add in overtime.

steelace
31-03-2010, 14:38
The very idea of Hobbit consisting of TWO parts (and the 2nd one not to be connected with the original book) is a bit frightening. I've read a number of Hobbit's sequels and not a single one could be even compared with the original.

Rykion
31-03-2010, 14:51
The very idea of Hobbit consisting of TWO parts (and the 2nd one not to be connected with the original book) is a bit frightening. I've read a number of Hobbit's sequels and not a single one could be even compared with the original.
They dropped this idea a while ago. The current plan for the movies is the Hobbit in two parts. They will get extra movie time by showing what Gandalf is doing during his frequent absences from the party.

steelace
01-04-2010, 14:44
It is comforted but not completely)). As far as I know Tolkien didn't give much information about Gandalf's absence, just what he told himself after. I recollect one interview with a movie director who made a tv series being based on a famous adventure book. He said very proudly that he had made two full-length episodes on a single authors phrase: "Against the skyline there appeared Indians". It seems to me that situation can be the same here.

Bassik
01-04-2010, 16:34
Del Toro sayd he wanted to work on At the Mountains of Madness after the Hobbit... so this news is double as sad for me.:cries:

Condottiere
01-04-2010, 17:24
I'm sure their schedule allows and their agents are appeased, a few other actors could make a cameo in The Hobbit.

Condottiere
20-04-2010, 13:47
MGM seems to be having trouble financing the next Bond movie, a franchise that has guaranteed ROI; if this continues, The Hobbit will be lucky to be on the screen by Christmas 2015.

Hellfury
20-04-2010, 14:42
Del Toro sayd he wanted to work on At the Mountains of Madness after the Hobbit... so this news is double as sad for me.:cries:

I was thinking the same thing.

In fact, he was ripped from the TMoM project in order to facilitate Hobbit. TMoM could have been done by now but it is looking like we may never see a proper lovecraft film production in my lifetime.

I say they move on until the production companies pull their heads out of their own asses far enough to see the money to be made with these two films.

Damn hobbit movie is cursed.

Its completely ridiculous. All the money made from the LotR trilogy and nobody can properly fund this two parter? What are they? Stupid? Its a damned license to print money is what it is.

ForgottenLore
20-04-2010, 16:47
re a Lovecraft film,

Hellfury, have you seen this?

http://www.cthulhulives.org/cocmovie/

It's a really good adaptation of Call of Cthulhu done a few years ago by fans who decided to make it as if it were a 1920's silent film.

Very faithful to the source material.

Hellfury
20-04-2010, 16:52
Yeah I own it and it is pretty good.

But I am still salivating over the prospect of Universal studios giving lovecraft the financial backing his stories deserve.

Del Toro doing lovecraft is a match made in heaven and he shows promise in doing justice to the source material like never before.

Though since they are making a prequel to The Thing, it may hinder the commercial success of AtMoM a bit. Making AtMoM look like a copy to the uninitiated when in fact it is its father (cooo...ha...coo...ha)

Hellfury
20-04-2010, 17:06
Sorry for derailing, this should set the thread back on topic.

http://insidemovies.moviefone.com/2010/04/16/peter-jackson-the-hobbit-rumors-screenplay/

Midloo
20-04-2010, 17:16
Hooray! Hobbit news from someone who actually knows what's going on instead of the rumor mill.

I haven't been as excited about a movie since "The Return of the Jedi" (which was a bit of a disappointment). When I heard that Del Toro was at the helm, I was even more excited. His dedication to old-school live action production techniques is so refreshing in a cinema age of underpaid interns sitting in bunkers filled with rendering software.

WD40
24-04-2010, 22:48
I think its cool that Ian McKellen will play gandalf again.

Do you think ian holmes will play bilbo, that was the old actor, right?

Condottiere
25-04-2010, 00:03
No; Bilbo is middle aged at this point, and the script will probably call for some degree of intense activity.

Hellfury
25-04-2010, 02:05
No; Bilbo is middle aged at this point, and the script will probably call for some degree of intense activity.

So will gandalf.

Mckellan is a bit older than holmes IIRC so it makes no difference. With CGI tech nowadays it is quite easy to paste a face on another actor and make it seems as though they are doing acrobatics. Because of this I would be VERY surprised if Homes did not return.

I really hope that Holmes reprises the role if for no other reason than continuities sake (which to me is the biggest reason to have actors from LotR reprise their roles).

ForgottenLore
25-04-2010, 02:18
I agree it would be nice, but I thought it was pretty much confirmed that Ian Holm will NOT be returning to play Bilbo.

Condottiere
25-04-2010, 06:48
Gandalf has probably always used an aged human form.

Hellfury
25-04-2010, 08:26
I agree it would be nice, but I thought it was pretty much confirmed that Ian Holmes will NOT be returning to play Bilbo.

I am not so sure. We have Peter Jackson on record as saying that nobody has even been cast for the movie yet since they just handed in the script for the second movie not so long ago.

Could be false info, or it could be truth doing damage control over the rest of the rumor sites spreading falsehoods.

*shrug* who knows for sure?

ForgottenLore
25-04-2010, 08:38
Exactly,

Condottiere, Yes, the wizards have always been in the guise of old men. While they inhabited middle earth at least.

Kroot Lord
25-04-2010, 11:16
Gandalf is a few millenia old (I recall him being a bit over 2000 years old), meaning that he wouldn't have aged noticably since the events in the Hobbit. Thus, it would be perfectly possible to have the same actor and a bit of make up to represent him in the Hobbit.

Of course, this isn't the case for Bilbo, as he is half the age as in the Lord of the Rings, and so the actor who portrayed him won't be suitable to play the younger Bilbo.

Whitwort Stormbringer
25-04-2010, 18:01
Personally, I don't think Holmes should reprise his role. I thought he was great as Bilbo, but he's just too old to play the same part for The Hobbit. In that story, Bilbo is supposed to be about 50, and a lot more acrobatics and agility are required of him than Gandalf (jumping around in trees fighting spiders, sneaking/climbing around the caves in the Lonely Mountain and the elves' hall, etc.). Gandalf's role will be similarly demanding, or less so, than in Lord of the Rings. He'll have a few battle sequences, but that's probably about it (I suppose this depends a lot on how much they expand on his comings and goings and what they add in). But beyond that, he just doesn't look young enough - I don't think he can pull off a 50-year old character anymore.

Although I don't think it's been confirmed one way or the other, as Hellfury points out, I kind of doubt that Del Toro/Jackson will seek out Ian Holmes, or that he would be perticularly interested in the part. I do think it would be cool to have some narration by Ian Holmes, though, similar to the opening of The Fellowship of the Ring.

ForgottenLore
25-04-2010, 19:39
I do think it would be cool to have some narration by Ian Holmes, though, similar to the opening of The Fellowship of the Ring.

That would be cool.

Keep in mind that once Bilbo acquired the Ring he effectively stopped aging. He really should look about as old as he does in the beginning of Fellowship.

Nevertheless, I don't believe Ian Holm is playing the part and I agree with that decision.

Hellfury
26-04-2010, 02:45
I have to assume he would be interested. He has been associated with LotR for so long its mindboggling really. From the BBC radio drama (as frodo) amongst other projects to the PJ trilogy.

I think it is possible for him to reprise the role and look as he did at the begining of fellowship for one reason. CGI.

Its quite amazing what they are doing with making actors look younger through the technology.

The tron sequel is a great example of this. If you check out the previews for the film, you can see how amazing the tech is by making jeff bridges look as he did in 1983, literally erasing 30 years of aging for his character Flynn's alter ego program named Clu.

While I agree that Homes needs to have not aged at all in order to maintain continuity, it is quite possible for him to be included instead of having another actor make it even less convincing younger Bilbo than Homes himself.

(though for some reason I do like the rumor of David Tennant being cast as Bilbo. Perhaps thats why he gave up being the 10th Dr. Who...)

Whitwort Stormbringer
26-04-2010, 03:01
Keep in mind that once Bilbo acquired the Ring he effectively stopped aging. He really should look about as old as he does in the beginning of Fellowship.

By the books, yeah, although that's something the first movie botched anyways. In the intro montage, we see a much younger Bilbo finding the ring than the Bilbo throwing the birthday party, and Bilbo in the beginning (in the Shire) looks a little past 50 anyways.


I have to assume he would be interested. He has been associated with LotR for so long its mindboggling really. From the BBC radio drama (as frodo) amongst other projects to the PJ trilogy.
True, he has had a long association with the whole LotR/Middle Earth saga, what I meant was simply that he's not likely to be interested because the role would be too physically demanding. I'm not saying he wouldn't be interested in the project at all, just not in playing Bildo (at least as the primary role during the main events of the story).

They can work wonders with CGI, but it's still no comparison to real people and something like Tron is a very different situation - the whole tron world/universe/whatever is completely tech-based, futuristic sci-fi looking type of stuff. Even something like Gollum works out OK. It works because there's no realistic precedent - the appearance is what they make it. A fully CGI character in realistic clothing performing supposedly realistic movements is far less convincing. Also, Del Toro seems to lean towards makeup, puppetry, and other forms of live on-camera action, which makes me think that he won't want to settle for having the main character done heavily in CGI.

ForgottenLore
26-04-2010, 03:12
What you say is true but they managed to portray gandalf doing physically demanding stuff. Not to mention Christopher Lee in the Star Wars prequels hopping all over the place like a 20 year old acrobat.

Whitwort Stormbringer
26-04-2010, 17:09
What you say is true but they managed to portray gandalf doing physically demanding stuff. Not to mention Christopher Lee in the Star Wars prequels hoping all over the place like a 20 year old acrobat.
That's true, and Gandalf was pretty much fine.

The swordplay is something that I think they can pull off just fine, even without a lot of CGI, it's more the climbing/jumping and general dexterity that, in my mind, would be required for the hobbit role (like I mentioned earlier, hopping around the trees fighting spiders, climbing ropes in and out of the Lonely Mountain, etc.)

That and, to me, he just looks too old. CGI and makeup can make someone look older or younger, but it often comes across as very artificial. I would just as soon have them select a younger actor who can pull the part off well, with similar demeanor and mannerisms to Ian Holm in the Fellowship.

But each to his own! I certainly understand the desire for consistency and continuity, and I wouldn't be altogether upset or anything if Ian Holm did take the role.

ForgottenLore
26-04-2010, 17:22
Yeah, I'm pretty much with you here.

I think Del Torro is going to make the look be sufficiently different from the LotRs that a different Bilbo is not going to be that much more of an inconsistency.

These are only sort of sequel/prequels.

Assuming they ever actually get made.

Whitwort Stormbringer
26-04-2010, 22:07
Assuming they ever actually get made.

:(

That's a grim thought. I'm still hopeful, though!

Archibald_TK
01-06-2010, 20:34
It's over for Guillermo Del Toro.

Last week he talked about the difficulties of MGM and how it was impacting the movie (http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/05/28/guillermo-del-toro-says-mgm-woes-holding-up-the-hobbit/)
To quote him :

We have been caught in a very tangled negotiation…Now I have been on the project for nearly two years. We have designed all the creatures, the sets, the wardrobe, animatics and planned action sequences and we are very, very prepared for when it is finally triggered. We don't know anything until the MGM situation is resolved

And now he announced he would no longer direct the movies. You can read the news here (http://kotaku.com/5551589/guillermo-del-toro-not-directing-the-hobbit), here (http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/05/30/36920-guillermo-del-toro-departs-the-hobbit/) or here (http://io9.com/5551446/the-hobbit-loses-director-guillermo-del-toro).
Note on the other hand that he will continue co-writing the scripts until they are completed.

Avatar of the Eldar
01-06-2010, 20:45
I think Del Torro is going to make the look be sufficiently different from the LotRs that a different Bilbo is not going to be that much more of an inconsistency.

Well, GDT's departure has the silver lining of bringing back visual consistency if PJ has to take the helm....

ForgottenLore
01-06-2010, 21:04
IF PJ takes the helm and IF the movies eventually get made.

I have pretty much given up on these films. Now, if they ever come out I will just be pleasantly surprised.