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it's coming this way!
31-03-2010, 01:55
Hey guys, new project is a Night Goblin army. I'm no tactical genius, so the list at this point is what I want to take, more than what will do well. I'd love to hear any tactical/list advice I can get on this, I'm hoping to learn to play the army fairly well over time.

Boss Bokbok B'Kok's Mountain WAAAGH!

Characters: 675pts
Boss Bokbok B'Kok (Savage Orc Warboss)--261pts
Martog's Best Basha, Effigy of Mork, Light Armor, Shield, Chariot

Orc Big Boss--149pts
BSB, Light Armor, Shield, Mork's Spirit Totem

Night Goblin Shaman--135pts
Level 2, Staff of Sneaky Stealin'

Night Goblin Shaman-- 130pts
Level 2, Mad Cap Mushroom (x2), Dispel Scroll

Core: 795pts
30 Night Goblins-- 170pts
Hand Weapon, Shield, Full Command, Nets, 1 Fanatic

30 Night Goblins-- 195pts
Hand Weapon, Shield, Full Command, Nets, 2 Fanatics

23 Savage Orcs--260pts
Spears, Shields, Full Command

20 Night Goblins-- 85pts
Bows, 1 Fanatic

20 Night Goblins-- 85pts
Bows, 1 Fanatic

Special: 490pts
2 Goblin Spear Chukkas—70pts

5 Night Goblin Squig Herd—150pts

5 Night Goblin Squig Herd—150pts

8 Squig Hoppers—120pts

Rare: 285pts
Giant—205pts

Doom Diver Catapult—80pts


Thanks for reading,
It's

ColShaw
31-03-2010, 14:15
A Savage Orc Warboss in a chariot is a very risky business, as his Frenzy means he'll go charging off at anything that gets within 14", leaving your army without his Leadership bubble. And Night Gobbos NEED Leadership.

That said, this army strongly resembles my own Night Goblin horde (I even use a Savage Orc Warboss, too, but I keep him on foot in the Gobbos, so if anything gets close to Frenzy-bait, I just declare a charge with the unit so the Warboss doesn't run off by himself).

Anyway, I'd ditch the Warboss's chariot (it's vulnerable to S7 attacks anyway, and a single Chariot isn't going to win many battles for you) and use the extra points elsewhere; a small unit of Fast Cavalry or two wouldn't go amiss.

it's coming this way!
31-03-2010, 16:11
Yeahh, I see what you mean about the Warboss. The 80 points from the chariot should buy me a unit of 5 spider riders with short bows/musician

I'm thinking about putting the Warboss and BSB in one of the night goblin units to take advantage of the netters.. The savage orcs shouldn't really need the extra leadership, being ITP.. so I'll bump them up to 24, knock one of the NG units down to 28 and throw the characters in there.

ColShaw
31-03-2010, 17:56
Having a Warboss in with Netters can work great; it means he's effectively got T6 5/6 of the time. I've even done it with Armor of Gork, so that S5 attacks only wound him on 6s! The look on that Lizardman player's face when he found out his Temple Guard needed natural 6s to wound... priceless.

I think that'll work well. Good luck, fellow Gobbo!

riotknight
31-03-2010, 18:32
My only issue is, if your calling it a NG army, you shouldn't have it lead by an Orc!

Mr. Gobbo
31-03-2010, 18:53
Orc Big Boss--149pts
BSB, Light Armor, Shield, Mork's Spirit Totem

When I first looked at this I thought to myself, "There is something wrong with this, isn't there?", so I looked in the O&G army book to check and I was right, there is something wrong with this. Sorry to tell you, but this contradicts part of the rules.

A Battle Standard Bearer in an O&G army can not have any none-magical equipment other than light or heavy armour when relevant. Just look at either page 50 or 51 of the army book!

it's coming this way!
31-03-2010, 19:15
My only issue is, if your calling it a NG army, you shouldn't have it lead by an Orc!

I know what you mean, I opted to go for the Savage Orc because he's overall more hitty and such... He's a better option game-wise than the NG warboss. Model-wise, he'll be a big, fat, mad Night Goblin



A Battle Standard Bearer in an O&G army can not have any none-magical equipment other than light or heavy armour when relevant. Just look at either page 50 or 51 of the army book!

Doh! Thanks for pointing that out, man.


Do you guys have any tips for getting 25mm bases to rank up with units of 20mm bases?

ColShaw
31-03-2010, 19:30
I just made my movement trays a shade wider and deeper, and plonk the big guys down in place. It's a lot easier with trays with front and side edges, as your opponents can count them as the edges of the unit, which prevents any weirdness.

sssk
31-03-2010, 21:50
I'd suggest putting a few fast cavalry units in there (I personally run 2 spider rider units and 2 or 3 wolf riders). They'll help a great deal with things which would otherwise harass your main units a lot (other fast cav etc).

Also on a personal note, I'm not keen on giants. They're handy and all, but I tend to find they die very easily (large, only toughness 5 (if memory serves me correctly), and no armour = pincushion). I think Doom divers are quite possibly one of, if not THE, best artillery piece in the game. They're accurate, and can deal with everything from lone characters to skirmishers to heavy cav (ie the things which the rest of the army has quite some difficulty dealing with). Therefore I'd either swap the giant for another one of those, or else a single troll (there are so many uses for a single troll it's difficult to list them all within just one person's life time...suffice to say they're good).

I tend to not have my characters with very much equipment, because they tend to not last very long (though obviously with an "orc" leading the army, he's likely to last a lot longer than a goblin warboss would), especially the BSB (maybe give him the gizmo which lets you use your opponents armour + ward).

Other than these little notes (which once again I'll point out are personal preference, and hence not necessarily "the right thing to do") it looks good. I like your special choices, all fine there (though I do have a slight obsession with squig hoppers, so maybe I would swap one unit of squigs for hoppers, then put in some more combat goblins), and your core looks good and solid (and you've not made the usual mistake of filling up on fanatics, they just aren't that good, I tend to have a single fanatic per unit and they serve me just fine). Maybe boost up the size of the combat goblin units a bit (to 35 maybe), because goblins do have this nasty tendency to die in droves.

As for tactics, I guess it's the slow advance under covering fire, and then hit in combat. If you take one thing from this post, let it be this:

GOBLINS WITH NETS ARE A LOT MORE SURVIVABLE THAN ANYONE EVER GIVES THEM CREDIT FOR

My goblins have beaten off units of orcs, empire infantry, skaven (infantry), dryads, dwarf warriors, even saurus (well, they held them for a turn and then the squig hoppers hit them on the flank...which is hilarious to behold). Despite this everyone still sees them as being "just goblins". Prove them wrong... unless they're Chaos warriors/knights, or anything from the deamon book, in which case they are "just goblins" and will probably serve to warm up your opponents dice rolling, and not a lot more (though knights and warriors should have been flattened by your doom diver and bolt throwers long before they come anywhere near you).

Wow, this has turned into a long post. I think I'll leave it there. good luck with the army. Goblins are great fun to play with, and when you win (which happens more than you might think) you have massive gloating rights.

ColShaw
31-03-2010, 22:05
SSK makes a lot of good points.

My own Gobbo horde uses big Night Gobbo units with Nets (Nets are, indeed, fantastic), a pair of single Trolls (which, as he points out, are GREAT), and 3 units of Spider Riders (I only don't use Wolves because my army is themed as an "underground" force and uses big cave spiders). I've never used a Giant, so can't comment there, except to note that I've never had one survive a game against me, win or lose. My own Gobbos poked one to death by stabbing him in the feet a few months ago. :)

As far as uses of a single Troll:

1) "Spoiler" charges. With a 12" charge, he can leap out of your line to chase off or beat to death small screening units (I've found one very effective to brush aside or stall a Skink skirmish screen on several occasions; their Stand & Shoot won't usually kill him, thanks to Regeneration, and he will kill 2 of them on average each turn, winning combat time after time, and stalling the Lizards behind them).

2) Mini-Hero. You can always charge him into a combat alongside your Goblin blocks, and he will rarely drag down your result. 3 extra S5 attacks can be really, really handy. I've found that a Goblin regiment with an Orc Hero and/or Warboss, and a Troll making a supporting charge, can do a LOT of damage.

3) Bait. Especially against Frenzied enemies, your Troll can swing out in front of your lines, pivoting so that the enemy will have to line up against him if they charge, at an angle to the rest of your line. You can use this to set up a flank charge of your own, or to draw Frenzied enemies toward you (they have to overrun), or even non-Frenzied ones if you think they won't actually kill the Troll (and with T4, 3W, Regeneration on just 40mm frontage, a Troll can be surprisingly hard to kill in a single round of combat). If the Troll doesn't die, it'll lose combat and hopefully flee (this is a case where the low base Ld is a good thing). The Troll, being US3, won't cause Panic in your own units, and can draw the enemy forward into a compromising position. Best used with Fanatics, who can be flung into the path of the enemy (if they pursue to within 8") when you will hopefully roll low enough to land them right in front of the foe, who will then pursue into them and land on top of them, suffering 2d6 hits! Yowch. Even if this isn't feasible, you can still sacrifice lone Trolls to draw enemy chargers out of position, and set up flanking shots with Spear Chukkas, or just keep the enemy away from your main units for an extra turn or two.

In short, yes, lone Trolls rock, and I love them.

shredshredxx
31-03-2010, 22:49
i agree with whoever up there said the warboss in the chariot is risky. i'd consider making him a black or regular orc instead, unless you really really like savage orcs. the reason for this is that it's literally always a good idea to put your orc characters on boars. that extra armour save, plus an extra s5 attack on the charge is a big help. however, if you're frenzied, you can obviously be pulled out of the foot unit you're in, which can lead to unfortunate situations.

at the very least. give the bsb a boar. he'll suffer no ill consequences from it.

also, are you allowed to take multiples of mad cap mushrooms...?

it's coming this way!
01-04-2010, 01:44
Wow! Thanks for those really great posts sssk and ColShaw! I was just thinking earlier today that I wanted to include some trolls in the list-- I think you might have sold me on the lone troll though.

I think in terms of what I can afford points-wise, are spider riders any better than wolf riders? I'll try and work 2 units of 5 in there... the points saved on the giant should get me there.

In terms of characters, I've got the 2 Shamans now-- and I feel that I could maintain a decent level of magic defense with just the first one (with the Staff of Sneaky Stealin') and Mork's Spirit Totem-- Would another character choice be worth it? I've heard some talk about the Suicide Goblin.. What's the general opinion on that?

-It's

ColShaw
01-04-2010, 14:30
Spiders vs. wolves is pretty dependent on your situation. If you play on boards with lots of terrain, Spiders are awesome, as they can just scuttle right through the woods (or whatever). However, wolves have that awesome 18" march/charge.

Most people tend to think wolves are a little bit better, due to the speed edge. But I'm not with them. I like the Spiders. For one thing, using a horde army, deployment space is often at a premium (my 2250 army only has about 6" extra space when deploying on a 6-foot table!). You can deploy the Spiders behind, or even in, a patch of terrain and they won't care. Also, there's the Poisoned Attacks. They usually won't do much, but every now and then they'll surprise you (like the time I poisoned a Saurus Scar-Vet to death with just 2 attacks...).

That said, both fast cav are really, really good to have. I've heard that it can be good to use both types, if you've got the points and the models, so you'll be prepared for multiple situations.

Just don't expect your Gobbo cav to actually, y'know... KILL anything. If they do, it's a bonus.

If you're playing 2250, you're only allowed the 4 character choices (Warboss, BSB, 2 Shamen), so it's a moot point.

Suicide Gobbos are often hilarious, and sometimes effective. Depends who you're playing against.

Sambojin
01-04-2010, 15:44
I'd have to agree with dropping the giant. Unless you play against a no-shooting army (VC,WOC maybe, though even MoK Horsemen can take it easily) it will probably be dropped quickly and easily by your opponent. Chuck in either another doom-diver, a lone troll or 2 pump wagons. The doom-diver will let you shoot harder/more accurately, the troll is almost a mini-magic-item in combats (although they have to be babysat) and the pumps are fun (and pure awesome when they work).

You're usually best off doubling up rare choices in an O+G army if you can. Either 2 DD, 2 lone trolls or 4 pump wagons. Unless you have something else that can fill their roll better (say some chukkas, maneaters or hoppers/chariots). Go with what you like, but I do find that double-rares seem to work alot better than one of each. Maneaters are like pricier, but self sustaining trolls (4S7 is a quite bit better than 1S5 auto, no armour save or 3S5). You could also try four pump wagons as a grouped unit. They often work wonders for all their randomness. 4 chariots as an opening deployment option shouldn't be under-estimated.

it's coming this way!
01-04-2010, 20:38
So, after reading through all of the really helpful advice I got above, I've come up with:

Boss Bokbok B'Kok's Mountain WAAAGH! (v2.0)

Characters: 628pts
Boss Bokbok B'Kok (Savage Orc Warboss)--216pts
Basha’s Bloodaxe, Effigy of Mork, Light Armor, Shield

Orc Big Boss--147pts
BSB, Light Armor, Mork's Spirit Totem

Night Goblin Shaman--135pts
Level 2, Staff of Sneaky Stealin'

Night Goblin Shaman-- 130pts
Level 2, Mad Cap Mushroom (x2), Dispel Scroll

Core: 981pts
33 Night Goblins-- 179pts
Hand Weapon, Shield, Full Command, Nets, 1 Fanatic
(General/BSB here)

35 Night Goblins-- 210pts
Hand Weapon, Shield, Full Command, Nets, 2 Fanatics

24 Savage Orcs--270pts
Spears, Shields, Full Command

20 Night Goblins-- 85pts
Bows, 1 Fanatic

20 Night Goblins-- 85pts
Bows, 1 Fanatic

5 Spider Riders—76pts
Bows, Musician

5 Spider Riders—76pts
Bows, Musician

Special: 520pts
2 Goblin Spear Chukkas—70pts

6 Night Goblin Squig Herd—180pts

5 Night Goblin Squig Herd—150pts

8 Squig Hoppers—120pts

Rare: 120pts
Troll—40pts

Doom Diver Catapult—80pts

Total: 2249pts

So the big changes, I ditched the lord's chariot and tossed the Gen and BSB in one of the night goblin units to take advantage of the netters. (The larger number of night goblins should also help out with Mork's Spirit Totem?) Swapped the Gen's weapon for Basha's Bloodaxe.

Got rid of the Giant, and saved a bunch of points by just buying a lone troll, which freed up the space to buy 2 units of spider riders. I chose the spiders over the wolves because being able to move them (as well as the squig hoppers) through difficult terrain, gives me a few fairly quick units that have a slight edge on maneuverability. Ended up having 31 points to spare, so I bumped up a unit of squigs with another herd.

Kept the two shamans, though I'm thinking about switching the second one out for something else (that said, the extra DD and Scroll he gives me won't go amiss)

Luckily, I should have doubles of most everything in the rare section (save for pump wagons), and should be able to experiment with all manner of combos and such.

Thanks for looking,
It's

sssk
01-04-2010, 20:55
I'm only here briefly, but at first glance, it looks good.

My single bit of advice this time round is put the BSB on a boar (in the goblin theme, maybe a fat wolf or something?) to increase his save a bit, because at the moment, he's basically I load of lovely points on a plate for the first character/elite unit which happens by (personally, I don't bother with magic standards, my BSB always just has as much protection as he can get...which isn't much in this case).

it's coming this way!
01-04-2010, 23:44
Sounds like a good idea-- perhaps drop the Warboss back to the Best Basha, and use the extra points to grab a boar, and I'll have some leftovers

My main question is whether this character is adding much to the army, or should I grab another character, kit him out differently, or scrap the slot entirely and buy more bodies?
Night Goblin Shaman-- 130pts
Level 2, Mad Cap Mushroom (x2), Dispel Scroll

Hopefully the project log will get started up soon!

Sambojin
02-04-2010, 02:57
It depends on who you're playing. Unless you have an agreement with your opponent to go "low-magic", then two shamans won't do alot. They might get a couple of spells off throughout the game (and Little Waaagghh! magic can be game changing with the right spells) but you'd probably be best to drop the mushrooms and levels off both shamans and concentrate on defense.

I'd probably drop one shaman entirely (the sneaky staff one) and lower the other to Lv1 with two scrolls. This will still give you 6DD and two scrolls for defense, which is plenty vs everything mostly. It will also free up about 165pts on which you can spend on whatever you like.

I'd start with adding 1 to each 20 strong NG unit, which will mean that they need one more casualty to panic. Give the BSB a boar as well. Another hero couldn't hurt (whichever type. Pipes of doom are good vs anything not ItP for the NG theme).

My favourite hero is a goblin on a chariot with LA, shield, 1 hit wonder, tricksy trinket and zorgas collar. Doesn't fit the theme of your army though (and will be a missile magnet and a half).

Maybe just grab another NG block, or some more spiders/wolves and fill the rest with extra NG or fanatics.