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View Full Version : People who are adament about the rules, but are blatenly wrong



mafty
31-03-2010, 03:32
Small rant here:

I played in a small LGS tourny a couple weeks back, and had an incredibly frustrating game against a tau player. It was one of those players who "thinks" (strong parentheses here) they know the rules and are incredibly adament about knowing such rules when a rule debate comes up, but is so obviously and blatenly wrong but wont accept such wrongness. It makes the game incredibly frustrating to play because I feel like the jackass for stoping whats going on and saying woah woah woah you cant do that because etc rule, or YES I can do that because of etc rule.

Case and point (theres a couple):
-I go to shoot a devilfish and he has the obscured rule, but I'm within 12" (barely, but im within it). And he now claims that range isnt drawn from the barrel of a gun on a tank, but its MOUNTING point (wtf is this, mounting point?) Next to add ontop of that apparently the hull of the devilfish doesnt start where the gun drone stick out part is, but at some ambiguous point further back (he makes reference to the wave serpent prongs), except the empty gun drone portion is still part of the hull....nothing like a wave serpent prong (which isnt part of the hull)
-Next, I shoot up a fire warrior unit, they break. But instead of falling back towards his table edge, he falls back towards the short edge because we're playing a spearhead deployment.......ugh dude, its table edge, not deployment zone. I strong facepalmed on this and let him do it since it didnt matter. But he refused to being wrong.
-Finally, we're playing kill point mission, and he seperates gun drones from the devilfish but says they dont count as a kill point.....but he admits they are a unit. What is this? a unit thats not a kill point? Id like lots of those in my army please.........give me a break


Anyways, there was many other little things like this that took place and just overall it was not a fun game. Anyone else face people who claim to know the rules when really are just BSing and dont

ObiWan
31-03-2010, 03:36
I'd either confront them with the rulebook, or if the guy si such a jerk pack my stuff and look for somebody else to play. And definitely not play the guy again.

Thud
31-03-2010, 03:38
Yes. And it's a bloody pain in the rear.

It took me quite a bit of pointing, reading and showing to get a few guys to understand how the Dawn of War deployment works.

ooglatjama
31-03-2010, 03:44
I think he's an idiot on the first 2, but drones shoudn't really be worthy of a KP

Igradar
31-03-2010, 03:52
Mafty, I'm frustrated by what you've experienced, you must understandably be livid at this stage. I can honestly say that of course there are times when 40k can resemble a game of two halves, not just in gameplay itself, but in the understanding of the rules that govern every action in the game itself.

I am literally sighing on your behalf mate, because it seems that you are the victim of conjecture. As I said, there is often two sides in complete opposition to one another apparent in certain rules that we as players must reconcile. While many of us do not necessarily agree that Side A are correct, or conversely that Side A is incorrect, at least it's safe to say that we base our actions over the course of gameplay by that which is written in the rules.

If ever you experience this again, just ask your opponant to reproduce his claim as expressed by the printed rules and of course you'll expose their error. I'm frankly sad for you that your opponant did not even consider that he was wrong based on your appeal, and you endured 3 games of his 'version' of 40k.

I'm fine with players arguing an interpretation of a rule that I do not share their opinion of - but your guy was inventing rules and arguing on their behalf with nothing in the BRB to back it up. You should have asked him what game he was playing \o/

Thud
31-03-2010, 03:52
I think he's an idiot on the first 2, but drones shoudn't really be worthy of a KP

Regardless of what should and should not be, the rules are the rules.

Necrons shouldn't be as criminally bad as they are, but, alas, they are.

mafty
31-03-2010, 03:57
I think he's an idiot on the first 2, but drones shoudn't really be worthy of a KP

whether they should or shouldnt, its a unit, its a KP. simple. That wasnt a big issue actually. it was all the little crap

And I couldnt pack my stuff up and leave, it was a tourny lol

Project2501
31-03-2010, 04:20
It was all the little crap. And I couldnt pack my stuff up and leave, it was a tourny lol


And where were the refs? If this was a tourny and all, you have officials there to offer recourse. If you didn't utilize them, your issue is with the guy in the mirror.

Griffindale
31-03-2010, 07:56
And where were the refs? If this was a tourny and all, you have officials there to offer recourse. If you didn't utilize them, your issue is with the guy in the mirror.

I don't know... I've seen some pretty bad tourney rulings. Better to keep it between players until things get out of hand.

Kirth
31-03-2010, 08:30
People who are adament about the rules, but are blatenly wrong

This is the correct situation to involve a third party like an official at a tournament. When you have an opponent such as this I see it as totally acceptable to pass the buck.

At least if the official rules against you and they are wrong too you have two things going for you: 1) At least it was two to one in the ruling, 2) You have a bad-beat story to tell all your friends who won't listen and call you names.

Vermin-thing
31-03-2010, 08:37
You guys and gals need to play more fantasy. :rolleyes:

I'm somewhat surprised by this thread as I had a 40k game today with only one hitch which was related to the removal of casualties. (He thought he did three wounds when the model had died in the previous shooting faze.)

Guess it comes down to who your playing in terms of the amount of rules debates. I've found very few loop holes, not that I look for them, and they all are easy to just "4+". Now I can fully understand how some silly WAAC kid would say that drones are not a kill point, but not part of the vehicel hull? Thats glove slap worthy, followed by the packing up of minis.

"Okay if your drones are not KPs, then my greater daemons are scoring, and are no longer 0-1 meaning that I can spam them." :mad:

e2055261
31-03-2010, 09:22
I've said this before many threads ago: tournaments attract ********s. If you play in touraments, be prepared to encounter ********s. By this I don't mean everyone who plays tournaments is a ******** just a small proportion:shifty:.

RCgothic
31-03-2010, 09:25
The only tournament I've ever been to was rather spoiled by a 2nd ed vet who didn't really know the rules and had come to the tournament to escort his son, yet adamantly refused to admit he was playing wrongly.

He brought Tau, against whom I had little playing experience. Suffice it to say that by the time I realised that I shouldn't have been taking six twin-linked railgun shots per turn from three broadsides, my mechanised/armoured list was pretty stuffed. This was combined with other shenanigans like moving models around in CC after they have been locked in Base to Base to avoid my powerfists (which would easily have stuffed his Commander Farsight), and several other things, but by then my game was already so stuffed up that stopping to argue with him would have just made things worse.

My other two games were pretty good, being hairs-breadth defeat against guard and a massacre against a different Tau in the final game, but he was, in the words of the Aussie transport minister, 'A D***head'.

Vermin-thing
31-03-2010, 09:37
I hate it when people (more so in fantasy) argue for the sake of arguing.

Deetwo
31-03-2010, 09:43
I've always found that tournament play sees a lot LESS arguing about rules...
And people making absolutely ridiculous claims are very easy to refute anyway.

Persistent or intentional ignorance is something I haven't personally seen though, people around here are well aware of basic rules mechanics and able to listen to reason.

magicmonkey
31-03-2010, 13:38
People who are adament about the rules, but are blatenly wrong= annoying noobs :mad:
makes me upset when it happens, or does it :shifty:

Knifeparty
31-03-2010, 14:39
I had a game similar to this in fantasy a few weeks ago. The guy is actually a nice guy and to be fair both of us were in a bit of a stubborn mood.

I was playing Vamps vs. his DE, I charged my Cairn Wraiths into his hydra that turn. I later miscast and rolled a free spell for him to which he cast Word of Pain, which gave my Cairn Wraiths WS 1 for the rest of the turn which was a really smart play. But I had the helm of command which lets me use the WS of my Vampire on any unit within 12". I used it on them during the combat phase and thats when things got out of hand.

We really argued about this one, and I knew I was right. It got kind of heated and we should have immediately checked the Vamps FAQ which we did later and found out I was right, but not before the Store manager asked us to stop playing because of the ruckus. I even 4+ it and rolled it my way.

The thing that got me angry the most wasn't that we were rules arguing, but that everyone else in the store seemed to side with him when I was clearly right, and now they can't admit they were wrong gracefully and just say that I acted like a jerk. Of course I did, I had the whole store against me lol.

Anyway the other player and I appologised to each other and now he wants a rematch.

Setesh
01-04-2010, 06:25
dude, dice off usually settles these things, or a staff member/close player

senorcardgage
01-04-2010, 06:30
A long time ago, when I first started playing, there was a guy who kept trying to tell me that wraithlords were toughness ten... He was always soooooo sure about it, too :)

Xelloss
01-04-2010, 08:17
And he now claims that range isnt drawn from the barrel of a gun on a tank, but its MOUNTING point
He confused range and arc of sight (you can't shoot with an angle from a vehicle weapon).


-Finally, we're playing kill point mission, and he seperates gun drones from the devilfish but says they dont count as a kill point.....but he admits they are a unit. What is this? a unit thats not a kill point? Id like lots of those in my army please.........give me a break
Giving up KP for drones is plain silly, not counting them is a justified house-rule. He probably forgot it's an houserule and should be agreed with at the beginning of the game (seriously, there is so many dumb thing you should agree with your opponent at the begining of the game you probably need a written list... you'd believe exchanging NDA :wtf:)

Conclusion : When you disagree with the rules, refer to the books. It seems lots of the things he was "sure" was real rules misunderstood/misremembered (my bet : he read that on the internet, and didn't get it right).
But something should be remembered : the "golden rule" is pretty easy to be exploited if you "disagree" with numerous things and ask to roll it to see who is right... Such behavior can lead to a certain form of paranoia where if you know a rule, you have absolutely no interest to roll it : being adamant *is* the right thing to do (but errare humanum est : check the books first)

silashand
01-04-2010, 09:01
I played a game at the Baltimore GT where my opponent tried to claim a Rhino's storm bolter could only shoot at targets in its front arc, even though it's clearly on a rotating mount on the model. I had to get a judge to come over to correct him on that one of all things. I know he was just stalling because his Space Wolf commander only had one wound left and he was trying to prevent me from shooting at him after he got left out in the open due to his poor planning. As it was with the four SB shots from the Rhino, I did manage to hit/wound on all four and he failed one save, thus giving me the massacre. Though he did try to nerf my sportsmanship at the end of the game. Sorry, when you are blatantly wrong I have no problem calling you on it and I would expect the same in return. I don't mind being wrong as it shows me how I should be playing something. In this case though it really looked like he was trying to make up a rule to prevent himself from losing so badly, but that's JMO. The judge did look at him like he was crazy when he explained his argument though ;).

Cheers, Gary

Lord Damocles
01-04-2010, 10:21
dude, dice off usually settles these things...
Why should you dice off for something, if you know you're correct/your opponant is wrong?

That's like having a 'On a 4+ I can cheat' roll :eyebrows:



If I ever come up against this sort of situation, I:
- Make sure I'm right
- Find relevant rule(s) and/or demand to see rules in support of opponant's arguement
- Dig in heels

Bestaltan
01-04-2010, 11:02
Yea, this happened to me a couple of weeks ago in a tourney. Guy insisted that my trygon prime was an HQ choice, and therefore worth more KP's. I refuted him with my codex, let him see the codex, then the ref came over and refuted him.

Guy still insisted it was an HQ choice.

Problem is a lot of people see rumours on the 'net, or see/use house rules, and get so comfortable with them that they think they are the rules.

The best way I've found to deal with this.......If you're going to be a tourney regular, have all of the updated codices. I've stopped a LOT of this sort of bull simply by pulling out my opponent's army codex from my bag.

Bunnahabhain
01-04-2010, 12:02
It's fading a bit now, but the best way I have found to be absolutely and honestly convinced you are correct on a rule, whilst being totally wrong is very simple.

You're in the wrong edition, be it of codex or rule book.

You know you know something, it's there on P58, you've seen it 100 times, of course I'm right.... DOH!