PDA

View Full Version : Dogs of War in 8th



The Black Knight
08-05-2010, 22:48
Hello everyone,

I'm nearing the end of building my lizardmen army, and I was wondering what people thought Dogs of War might be like in 8th?

Does anyone have any good advice for a potential Dogs of War player,

Thanks,
The Black Knight

spetswalshe
08-05-2010, 23:14
Ah, if only Condotierre was here, he'd know what to say...

I get the impression they'll be either shelved completely or put in the hands of Forge World Fantasy division. But with the Skaven, the Chaos Dwarfs and every other model they've got on their list, even if they do get picked up by Forge World I wouldn't expect to see them for a long, long time.

p.s. you might get more help here (http://www.dogsofwaronline.com/).

Arkfatalis
08-05-2010, 23:20
If the rumours are correct about allies you could essentially create an empire armous as a dogs of war, with pikes as big spears.

Kalandros
08-05-2010, 23:44
I'm sorry but 6th edition documents for army supplements do not belong in the game anymore, under 7th it was tolerable.

But with 8th coming about, its time to let go. Using such oudated material in the game isn't something I would like to play against. We'll see how they update the rules in every army book (rumored updates with the 8th edition release) and if there is nothing for Dogs of War then its over - they don't belong in games once the new edition is here.

Ultimate Life Form
09-05-2010, 00:16
I'm sorry but 6th edition documents for army supplements do not belong in the game anymore, under 7th it was tolerable.

But with 8th coming about, its time to let go. Using such oudated material in the game isn't something I would like to play against. We'll see how they update the rules in every army book (rumored updates with the 8th edition release) and if there is nothing for Dogs of War then its over - they don't belong in games once the new edition is here.

Ah, yes, interesting point. So you won't play against OK and TK anymore?

Question:
How do you know there will be nothing for Dogs of War in 8th Edition? The same way you know there won't be Chaos Dwarves in 8th Edition? You cannot prove negatives. The only way to find out is to wait. Through all of 8th. Meaning that going by your own adage you'll have to play against DoW as well. Well done.

Kalandros
09-05-2010, 01:20
I'm saying that using the PDF supplements for Dogs of War, Regiments of Renown, Storm of Chaos, Alion, etc does not have its place in 8th edition and that there should be a rules update for all ARMY books currently out to make them in line with all the game altering changes from the rule book. Thus OK, TK, Woodies, Dwarfs & Brets will get a slight update, while Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarves will for now have no place in 8th edition.

grumbaki
09-05-2010, 01:22
I'd gladly play against them. Just imagine seeing huge blocks of pikemen marching across the board at you, with small units of skirmishers guarding their flanks and some heavy cavalry waiting to hit you once you get bogged down with the pikemen. It'd be glorious, as it would actually look like an army, and with 8th edition it might even be effective! (Until it runs into a HPA...)

Denny_Crane
09-05-2010, 01:26
I agree with Kalandros. If you can use old outdated PDFs for Dogs of War i should be able to use old PDFs for Dark Elves... Hello MR2 Spellthirster Hyrdra.
Dogs of War have no book so you cannot play them anymore.

Kalandros
09-05-2010, 01:27
I faced dogs of war once and he had 1 unit of pike that he decided, after our game, was not going to field anymore. Basically he has a Regiments of Renown army. And the goblin-hewer is really overpowered against horde armies.

BigbyWolf
09-05-2010, 02:41
I agree with Kalandros. If you can use old outdated PDFs for Dogs of War i should be able to use old PDFs for Dark Elves... Hello MR2 Spellthirster Hyrdra.
Dogs of War have no book so you cannot play them anymore.

Dogs of War, like Chaos Dwarfs, have not had an official book for a very, very long time. This doesn't mean that you can't still have very enjoyable games with them. One member at our club only has a DoW army, beautifully converted, painted and maintained . I myself have a Chaos Dwarf army that I bring out on rare occasions using the old Ravening Hordes list, the armies are not OP in any sense, so therefore you don't gain any real advantage using them over any other army.

And choosing to field an army with an OOD book/PDF when there is no modern equivalent has no comparison with electing to use an old book/ PDF that alrady has an up to date counterpart. What's the matter? Is a 175 point Hydra not good enough for you? ;)

Commodus Leitdorf
09-05-2010, 12:30
Ah sad sad day when when the "hobby" and "fun" aspect of the game are trampled under the foot of the silly "It's not official! You can't use it!?!?" mentality.

Anyway, to answer your question. If it's true and there will be more common magic items DoW should be fine. One of thier problems (besides having some units over priced) is the lack of magic items.

A fun DoW side project is something I have been thinking off to to add to my Empire. I'm looking forward to see how it will all pan out.

Commissar Vaughn
09-05-2010, 12:49
Some of the arguments in this thread are rediculous.

Gw doesn't put a shelflife on it's rules, no army list contains the words " this book may not be used after 12th edition or 01/01/2011."


And even if they did say such&such a list is no longer official, I for one would ignore them; it's official as long as people are still using it.

Griefbringer
09-05-2010, 12:59
Actually, the DoW army list that I have (from Chronicles 2004) is one of the few army lists that specifically mentions that it is "official rules".

For example my Bretonnian army book (which came out a few months after Chronicles 2004) mentions nowhere that it is official rules.

phoenixguard09
09-05-2010, 13:05
Hell yes go for it. Seriously DoW are so thin on the ground these days. Actually I don't think they were ever that popular... 8th should hopefully bring about the rebirth of the Dogs. Hopefully...

SamVimes
09-05-2010, 15:00
I'm saying that using the PDF supplements for Dogs of War, Regiments of Renown, Storm of Chaos, Alion, etc does not have its place in 8th edition and that there should be a rules update for all ARMY books currently out to make them in line with all the game altering changes from the rule book. Thus OK, TK, Woodies, Dwarfs & Brets will get a slight update, while Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarves will for now have no place in 8th edition.

Erm....Huh? Why wouldn't DOW or Chaos Dwarves be eligible to play in 8th edition? Just because they are old and neglected means nothing when they are the newest official lists players have, and GW has already said they won't invalidate any lists. Are you just some sort of list agist:p

GodlessM
09-05-2010, 15:54
My first bit of advice on playing Dogs of War in 8th is don't. They are not an official army and thus likely won't fit in with the rules very well. It wouldn't surprised me if they just skippd past several letters and made Tier Z for DoW in 8th.

Griefbringer
09-05-2010, 16:20
and thus likely won't fit in with the rules very well

Considering that the basic DoW list is very light on any sort of fancy special rules, the potential for problems with interacting with the rest of the rules are actually pretty low.

Regiments of Reknown are more festooned with special rules and magic items, so there might be a point or two that might cause some unclarity.

But if you want to have see an army list that has trouble fitting with the rules, I would rather recommend taking a look at the new Skaven book, and the accompanying FAQ they had to release to address a lot of the vague issues.

(And I would like to again point out that the DoW army list very clearly states that it is official.)

inq.serge
09-05-2010, 17:53
Hmmmm.

Jes said that Chaos Dwarfs will have an update, DoW, He doesn't know. (as it's neither decided whether the'll come or go.)


Anyhow:

• An additional rank for pikes = awesome.
• We don't have much AS 3+
• More magic items
• More pts for special and no slots (AFAIK)
• Cheap characters and no Character slots (AFASIK) = Great for us
• If rumour that you may only have 3 of each special choice and 2 of each rare choice doesn't affect us much since RoR are 1 of each.

And the bad sides

You might as well forget asarnil.

Bloodknight
09-05-2010, 18:08
Well, Asarnil was never that good. A weedy elf that dies from a single round of crossbow fire on a medium dragon...


I faced dogs of war once and he had 1 unit of pike that he decided, after our game, was not going to field anymore.

Yeah, would you pay 11 points for a glorified human spearman?


Basically he has a Regiments of Renown army. And the goblin-hewer is really overpowered against horde armies

No, it isn't. It's expensive, uses a hero and a rare choice (in an army that already has to fill one hero choice with the 2nd worst BSB in the game) and is actually much better if it gets a flank shot on cavalry.


That said, I think we DoW players are ****ed, if the army books require major errata and we don't get one. I'm really going to hate it if I have to split my 11K DoW army into an Empire (bah!), WoC (mmm...at least I can use my Marauders and Ogres for that one) and O&G (noooo!) army... I'll probably going to quit WFB if that happens (I never thought I'd say that...). Getting your biggest army invalidated sucks, especially if it's one that had a real army book. I wouldn't care if it was a Storm of Chaos army, since all of those can easily be played with their parent army book (even the Slayer list is basically possible with the Dwarf book), but as a DoW player who actually sank a lot of money into RoR models (some of the best models in WFB, especially all the Perry sculpts, IMHO), this stinks.


Else the army list is actually official (it's got the stamp, unlike the Kroot Merc list for 40k that says it's unofficial) and newer than the TK and Bretonnia book, and I think the Wood Elves are older, too. People who don't want to play against DoW should be told one thing: DoW are one of the weakest armies in WFB and people refusing a game to a DoW player mostly are going to lose out on an enjoyable game vs a guy whose heart is behind the hobby.

inq.serge
09-05-2010, 19:04
There are rumours of being able to have allies.

It's not the same, but, you could theoretically have:

Empire list
1 skeleton unit with a Wight king with tomb blade and aome kind of ward, and a magic banner for the unit.
1 unit of shades lead by a master, (or assassin?)
Elf on dragon
Paladin with knight of the realm unit.
Ogre hero leading a unit of ironguts
dwarves, gobbos, orcs, giants, elves?, marauders, even lizzies.

The downside is that you can forget the 4 best things about DoW:

Halflings, pistol-duelists, Belladonna and Rico.

Griefbringer
09-05-2010, 20:09
Else the army list is ... newer than the TK and Bretonnia book, and I think the Wood Elves are older, too.

Actually, if we take the Chronicles 2004 as a reference (since I think that is the latest version of the DoW list) then that came out in late 2003.

Bretonnian army list is slightly younger, since it was published in early 2004, and the woodies came out in summer 2005.

Arkfatalis
09-05-2010, 20:12
The downside is that you can forget the 4 best things about DoW:

Halflings, pistol-duelists, Belladonna and Rico.

You can't say that ! Now Voland is going to get sad and cry. :cries:

And Belladonna isn't even that great !

And you forgot about the hotpot !

inq.serge
09-05-2010, 20:48
Hotpots are Halfling, Arkfatalis, Hotpots are.

Arkfatalis
09-05-2010, 20:55
Yeah, but I assumed you where referring to the special choice or Lumpin, not the 50pts of godliness ! You still forgot about Voland though.

inq.serge
09-05-2010, 21:26
I referred to the entire halfling race.

And, I don't want to be mean toward voland, but, he's not my kind of character, I'm more of a Rico type.

stashman
09-05-2010, 22:57
I faced dogs of war once and he had 1 unit of pike that he decided, after our game, was not going to field anymore. Basically he has a Regiments of Renown army. And the goblin-hewer is really overpowered against horde armies.

You must be joking! If I have friends that wan't to play there "old" DoW ofcourse I would let them.

Do you even have "real" friends or do you just play at stores and tournaments?

Wendersnaven
10-05-2010, 01:02
Here's hoping they bring back some kind of allied contingent rules to allow us to use our old Dogs of War models.

someone2040
10-05-2010, 03:51
To be honest. Dogs of War should be completely compatible with 8th edition using the same guidelines that will be used for across most books (like... if slots dissapear, then slots dissapear in Dogs of War as well).

The only potential problem I can see is Pikes. If Fight in Ranks isn't specifically outlined in the new book, then there's a problem.

Otherwise, most of the rules shouldnt' cause a problem other than potentially being overruled (i.e Similar to how Mengils Dark Venom doesn't do anything anymore when 7th ed Dark Elves came in).

I don't think Dogs of War are going to return anytime soon, but I'll be sad if 8th edition invalidates them as an army(Well, further than invalidating Asarnil).

SamVimes
10-05-2010, 03:54
Wait...how does it invalidate Asarnil?

someone2040
10-05-2010, 06:01
Wait...how does it invalidate Asarnil?
Asarnil costs 460 points. 25% of 2000 is 500. However, you need both a general and a paymaster. Which is a minimum of about 105 points without any gear.

Even based on the rumour that forced characters don't take up hero points, you still can't do it at 2000 points.

At 2500 points, you can JUST squeeze him in if you want crappy characters with very few items.

So it basically means, Asarnil goes back into the cabinet. Invalidating is kind've the wrong word I suppose.

SamVimes
10-05-2010, 06:10
Ok, that I get. I thought maybe I missed something that made it so Asarnil was illegal to take, period.

ftayl5
10-05-2010, 07:00
Well if you put it that way, a whole heap of special charcaters are invalidated; Khalida is 420pts, leaving no space for a liche priest, Settra's 625pts. A chaos lord on dragon is.... alot of points

Arsanil isn't invalidated, you just have to save him for bigger games, like most powerful characters

Griefbringer
10-05-2010, 09:13
The only potential problem I can see is Pikes. If Fight in Ranks isn't specifically outlined in the new book, then there's a problem.


There is also the issue of how their special rule for striking first in the first round of combat works out with the rumoured changes about striking order.

Then again, that is not very different from the rest of the army lists having a ton of different rules for striking last/first in various circumstances.

inq.serge
10-05-2010, 09:43
" Unless someone attacking them has an ability to always strike first, the pikemen strike first".- Their rules

Simple. They don't even have ASF, the have something else.

And, AFAIK, Infantry fight in 2 rank, so, Pikemen will get 2 ranks standard, and 3 additional ranks. Total: 5 ranks. However, every model not in the first rank may only attack with 1 attack, which doesn't matter, since pikemen ARE A 1.

ChaosVC
10-05-2010, 09:47
Time to convert pikeman for my empire, I really hate the silly tiny spear that empire spearman wields...they even called it a half pike...bleh.

ftayl5
10-05-2010, 10:37
My problem with DoW, and the only reason I won't do them is coz the main core choice si pikemen, which are much bette rused defensively, they really have very few offensive units which arent 0-1 or special choices or skirmishers

Other than that, I really love the army, if 8th edition does make them obselete, great will be my wrath!

Commissar Vaughn
10-05-2010, 10:52
Pikemen fighting in 5 ranks? I knew there was a good reason to convert so many...

inq.serge
10-05-2010, 10:55
Imagine, Riccos,7x5.

Cav charges

34 attacks with ws 4 st 4

Then ricco strikes 4 ws 6 st 4 attacks.

Ric rule.

Bloodknight
10-05-2010, 11:55
Ric rule.

He'd better. That unit is 480 points (a VC army could get 8 Blood Knights for that...or a WoC army gets 10 Khorne Knights with full command) without any bonus psychology rules or anything like it.

Those 34 attacks will on average cause 17 hits and 9 wounds vs T4 cavalry which will drop 1-2 T4 1+ knights (i.e. the surviving 7 BK/8 KoK would just eat the unit...) or roughly 17 hits, 12 wounds vs T3 cavalry. That's 2 dead Empire knights.

Pikemen aren't good. They never really were and the elite cavalry units from the newer books just walk over them.

Griefbringer
10-05-2010, 13:24
My problem with DoW, and the only reason I won't do them is coz the main core choice si pikemen, which are much bette rused defensively, they really have very few offensive units which arent 0-1 or special choices or skirmishers


Heavy cavalry?

w3rm
10-05-2010, 17:24
Asarnil costs 460 points. 25% of 2000 is 500. However, you need both a general and a paymaster. Which is a minimum of about 105 points without any gear.

Even based on the rumour that forced characters don't take up hero points, you still can't do it at 2000 points.

At 2500 points, you can JUST squeeze him in if you want crappy characters with very few items.

So it basically means, Asarnil goes back into the cabinet. Invalidating is kind've the wrong word I suppose.


I always under the impression that Asarnil was a Rare choice that takes up a hero slot not a hero that also uses a rare slot.

inq.serge
10-05-2010, 19:32
And the dark emissary? And Truthsayer? And Amazon priestess?

They all are hero-rare. Wonder what they'll count toward?

At-least maneaters are special, and, oh, we can only take three units of them. :(

someone2040
11-05-2010, 02:43
I always under the impression that Asarnil was a Rare choice that takes up a hero slot not a hero that also uses a rare slot.
That's a bit of a tough question. Everytime I've played, I've played him as a character and deployed him with the rest of my characters (rather than as a unit).
However, something like the Goblin Hewer I would deploy as a warmachine.

I suppose technically from the wording, you are right... but don't know how many opponents would actually agree with that. And unfortunately, there's going to be no such FAQ to clear things up from GW's part.

I don't know how the Truthsayer/Dark Emissary/Serpent Priestess ruling is written though. If they say they are a hero choice that takes up an additional rare choice, may have an argument on our hands about Asarnil. However, it's very hard not to see Asarnil as a character.

ftayl5
11-05-2010, 06:31
Heavy cavalry?

Yeah, I menat R and F units.
Actually, I can see these guys being very useful in 8th ed. If steeds with barding can't march, Heavy Cav could actually have a serious advantage over ther armies cav. What does that spell? AWESOMENESS