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Bassik
14-07-2010, 09:22
It's probably just a funny nod, but on page 254 in the rulebook, there's a big picture with all sorts of cool and weird Skaven weapons, but for some reason it includes a Skavenesque chainsword, powerfist and lightening claws.

(And a clockwork rat, witch has nothing to do with this topic, but it was still awesome)

xxRavenxx
14-07-2010, 09:38
Early last edition, (or late previous edition?) I recall a small quantity of hints creeping in about warhammer actually being a single planet, in the 40k universe, which has gone "feral" over the years, with various magic items actually being remnant advanced technology. Magic being low level psychic activity. etc.

It was shakey, and made little to no sence in a couple of places. But it was interesting to think about it. Needless to say, when they ironed out the wrinkles in "creative direction" these things mostly vanished.

I assume at least one designer is on a mission to sneak references in where possible :)

Korraz
14-07-2010, 09:58
The 40k Weapons are just shout outs and easter eggs to 40k.
The WHFB Planet was once a planet in the 40k universe, but they gut seperated for good.

Odin
14-07-2010, 10:05
Early last edition, (or late previous edition?) I recall a small quantity of hints creeping in about warhammer actually being a single planet, in the 40k universe, which has gone "feral" over the years, with various magic items actually being remnant advanced technology. Magic being low level psychic activity. etc.

It was shakey, and made little to no sence in a couple of places. But it was interesting to think about it. Needless to say, when they ironed out the wrinkles in "creative direction" these things mostly vanished.

I assume at least one designer is on a mission to sneak references in where possible :)

Goes way further back than that. In 3rd edition, Chaos champions could take chainswords, bolt pistols, power fists... all sorts.

Formosa
14-07-2010, 10:19
lets not forget the albion campaign, a dark emasary(SP?) found a weapon very much like a powerfist,
also liber chaotica (Best BL series to date) has a chainsword as a deamon weapon

Avian
14-07-2010, 10:20
One would think that having the same Daemon special characters in both games was a pretty obvious clue. ;)

Formosa
14-07-2010, 10:30
tis true avian

Wishing
14-07-2010, 10:58
In the olden days, Khorne especially was very fond of granting his fantasy followers technological equipment, like chainswords and lascannons (!), usually fused to their bodies as far as I could tell.

Spawn of Icarus
14-07-2010, 11:55
The are existing links still between current lizardmen and 40k Necron book.

if you read two scources together (like i did) it implies WHFB is a world in the far flung past of 40k after the necrons nearly won the first time and went to sleep while old ones died/ vanished, with all the nasty chaos stuff comming through "old ones warp gates" up north refered to in lizardmen book and sudden disapearence of the old ones corralates to unsettleing of the warp/ whatever it was called before. which was calm and tranquil untill the old ones taught the younger races to channel it and it became violent and unsafe for the old ones according to necron book and they were stranded killed by necrons or eaten by demons.

I can always sit down and grab the relevant bits together and stick them up on here (theres very little of it but it has me convinced)

I can so imagine Skaven having crazy rat cyber punk style powerfists etc :P

cornonthecob
14-07-2010, 12:43
Albion campaign had several magic items all of which were 40k weapons.

bluemage
14-07-2010, 14:11
You realize of course that its the otherway around, right? Warhammer fantasy existed before 40k. And all the 40k races were fantasy races in space. Then someone thought it would be cool to say the fantasy world exists in the 40k universe, only it doesn't make any ******* sense and that idea was dropped.

loveless
14-07-2010, 14:21
only it doesn't make any ******* sense and that idea was dropped.

Well...it could make some sense. It doesn't take much in 40K to completely seal off a planet from the rest of the galaxy (Warp Storms, anyone?). With nigh-infinite planets to play around with, it's quite possible that one of them houses the Warhammer world.

Anyway, there are lots of little "hints" and speculations regarding the two systems being connected - though most of these are more likely Easter Eggs than anything.

I was always fond of the one that claimed Sigmar was a Primarch. Completely "out-there" and I can't really say I believe it, but it was a nice bit of speculation. To be fair, Sigmar's backstory and rise to power does mirror that of the Primarchs pretty closely.

senorcardgage
14-07-2010, 14:21
. Then someone thought it would be cool to say the fantasy world exists in the 40k universe, only it doesn't make any ******* sense and that idea was dropped.

How does it not make any sense?

(I mean, sure, it doesn't make sense, but when you're willing to accept the existence of things like vampires, giants, etc this doesn't sound too far fetched!)

Sygerrik
14-07-2010, 14:21
The backgrounds were officially severed around 4th-5th, I believe, but 6th had a few Easter eggs (like the aforementioned Albion business).

Wishing
14-07-2010, 14:30
The backgrounds were officially severed around 4th-5th, I believe, but 6th had a few Easter eggs (like the aforementioned Albion business).


Like Avian points out, the backgrounds don't seem to be officially severed when you consider the rules-wise and model-wise existence of a whole model range that officially exists in both worlds. If the fact that the same lord of change can squash a space marine one day and cast a spell on an empire spearman the next day isn't a tangible link between the two game backgrounds, I don't know what is.

bluemage
14-07-2010, 14:30
Magic doesn't work in 40k. You can call it experimental lost technology if you want, but that's clearly not the case. Also Slaanesh has always existed in warhammer. In 40k he was created by the eldar. However the Old Ones created elves and space elves, and if the old ones are the same, this happened around the same time. So time line wise that doesn't work. As for Sigmar's story closely following how the primarchs rose to power, that's just a case of GW having lousy writes that recycle material. Say the exist in parallel universes if you want, that makes some sense.

loveless
14-07-2010, 14:43
I'm pretty sure "Magic" does work in 40k...you just call it "Psychic Powers" instead. Psykers are touched by the Warp and have to reach into it, just as Wizards in Fantasy have to reach into the Winds of Magic.

Also, due to crazy Warp Timeline, Slaanesh has always existed, yet not always existed. I think Codex: Chaos Daemons mentions some bizarre oddity about the Dark Prince - while he was created during the Fall of the Eldar, it somehow doesn't preclude him from taking part in actions prior to the Fall. I don't remember exactly how it's worded, I don't have the book with me.

mrtn
14-07-2010, 15:23
"Lightning claws" has been a assassin weapon for centuries, popularised by everyone from ninjas to Wolverine, and is an old skaven staple.

As for the rest of you discussing Sigmar=primarch and WH = 40K universe (even in the same thread!) should read the sticky FAQ in the background forum. :rolleyes:

Vombaticus
14-07-2010, 16:11
Yeah Slaanesh was created by the eldar in 40k, but has always existed, mainly because the warp does not follow rules like time. So Slaanesh was always there, was created and is still not existent. That goes for pretty much everything in the warp.

Also the Warhammer world was once a usual 40k world, probably in the eye of terror, that was trapped in a warp storm and therefore unreachable. Back then the Slann were also a race in the 40k Universe. ( even today the Necron Codex states that you could use Lizardman as servantes of the old ones)
Later the 40k and fantasy fluff were separated again, but some easter eggs and hints still exist. ( The Liber Slaanesh actually mentions Chaos Space Marines)

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-07-2010, 16:21
Well...it could make some sense. It doesn't take much in 40K to completely seal off a planet from the rest of the galaxy (Warp Storms, anyone?). With nigh-infinite planets to play around with, it's quite possible that one of them houses the Warhammer world.

Anyway, there are lots of little "hints" and speculations regarding the two systems being connected - though most of these are more likely Easter Eggs than anything.

I was always fond of the one that claimed Sigmar was a Primarch. Completely "out-there" and I can't really say I believe it, but it was a nice bit of speculation. To be fair, Sigmar's backstory and rise to power does mirror that of the Primarchs pretty closely.


So what your saying is that it could make sense, as long as the Warhammer World doesn't actually have any connection at all to 40k?

If that's the premise I can agree. As long as the Warhammer World doesn't have any sort of contact with the world of 40k it could be a planet there if you really wanted it to be. Of course it wouldn't do anything but it could be.

The Warhammer World doesn't really share any of the characteristics of 40k, just having a single world with lots of different races on it living sort of peaceful along each other is completely foreign to 40k and then you have cosmological differences such as the Elven gods being alive and not eaten by Slaanesh in Warhammer but the Eldar gods having been dead for 10.000 years.

As for Sigmar, we know he was born in the old fashioned way to his mother so unless you want to go with him being somehow inserted into the womb of his mother he can't be a Primarch.

Now they do share a fair amount of stuff, they exist in a shared world of ideas and background, but having them actually exist in the same world in the setting is unlikely and a bad idea. All it does is cheapen the setting of Warhammer while not adding anything.

HRM
14-07-2010, 17:16
I always thought some of the 40K armies were lame concepts - "Space Orcs", "Space Elves"... Not too creative, n'est-pas?

mbh1127
14-07-2010, 17:28
Goes way further back than that. In 3rd edition, Chaos champions could take chainswords, bolt pistols, power fists... all sorts.

yeah

I remember hearing the exact same thing 20 years ago when I started playing. Neat idea imo.

theorox
14-07-2010, 17:38
Wow, i can't wait for the Tyranids to land! :D

Oh wait, they're Beastmen...

Theo

DarkstarSabre
14-07-2010, 19:45
The are existing links still between current lizardmen and 40k Necron book.

if you read two scources together (like i did) it implies WHFB is a world in the far flung past of 40k after the necrons nearly won the first time and went to sleep while old ones died/ vanished, with all the nasty chaos stuff comming through "old ones warp gates" up north refered to in lizardmen book and sudden disapearence of the old ones corralates to unsettleing of the warp/ whatever it was called before. which was calm and tranquil untill the old ones taught the younger races to channel it and it became violent and unsafe for the old ones according to necron book and they were stranded killed by necrons or eaten by demons.

I can always sit down and grab the relevant bits together and stick them up on here (theres very little of it but it has me convinced)

I can so imagine Skaven having crazy rat cyber punk style powerfists etc :P

You could always point out the blatantly obvious similarities of the Staff of Light and the Staff of Light.

Clearly those Lizards still have Necron trophies they use.

Bassik
14-07-2010, 20:00
I don't think the two settings are actually related, just that the designers like to throw in eastern eggs for us to nerd about.

Shab
14-07-2010, 23:39
But then again both settings share the same named Daemon characters, as Avian pointed out a few posts ago. In the WD Daemon launch issue this is even emphasized: (speaking of the named characters found in both the codex and army book): "Make no mistake though, these are the same Daemons-Skulltaker, Khorne's greatest champion, is the same being no matter what planet or battlefield he strides across"

To me that can only mean that the two settings are related. It doesn't necessarily mean that the world of Warhammer is a planet somewhere in the 40K galaxy, maybe they're in two paralel dimensions or something, but they have to be connected somehow.

Spawn of Icarus
14-07-2010, 23:55
It's implied fantasy happens before 40k in the necron codex, early fantasy is pretty much when necrons went to sleep. waking up again in 40kverse in the newer books

Im not sure if winds of magic is meant to be warp powers as the necron codex mentions the old ones teaching their "new races" them and marks them for the destabilistaion of the warp and creation of demons.

Theres meant to be old one warp gates up north in chaos wastes (i believe thats the term used in the lizzies book.)

I know its not stated outright anymore that theres a connection but that doesnt mean they didnt deciede to just make it much more subtle and more "co-incidental", rather than it being an isolated world in 40kverse like it was.

Very little info as its pre 40k in a period that only really has necron sources. Dont know if theres any in the eldar books (i dont know if theres any hints its terra or not in the newer stuff. Although there was a webgate on terra before the throne was built right?)

Means it doesnt offend either auidience's idea of thier setting because its so hidden away?

Penitent Engine
15-07-2010, 00:10
It's implied fantasy happens before 40k in the necron codex, early fantasy is pretty much when necrons went to sleep. waking up again in 40kverse in the newer books

Problem: the Necrons went 'to sleep' around 65 million years ago. Following your time scale logic humanity shouldn't be around at all! Furthermore, Slaanesh exists in Fantasy and while time does not exist in the Warp, Slaanesh did not exist in realspace until the Fall of the Eldar, around M28-30 (in 40K).
If Sigmar was a primarch (not saying he was), then the current Fantasy world would probably be around M33/34 in 40K.

I could believe it's stuck in/around the Eye of Terror. Maybe. :shifty:

hellharlequin
15-07-2010, 00:31
Problem: the Necrons went 'to sleep' around 65 million years ago. Following your time scale logic humanity shouldn't be around at all! Furthermore, Slaanesh exists in Fantasy and while time does not exist in the Warp, Slaanesh did not exist in realspace until the Fall of the Eldar, around M28-30 (in 40K).
If Sigmar was a primarch (not saying he was), then the current Fantasy world would probably be around M33/34 in 40K.

I could believe it's stuck in/around the Eye of Terror. Maybe. :shifty:

naah I'm a friend of the "diffrent universe - same warp" theory