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Sexiest_hero
14-07-2010, 20:33
GW wants 3000 to be the new 2250. I'm fine with that because it's high time that after you fit what you need to in your army, then what you want, you can fit what is just fun as well.

Here are my top 5 reasons why 3k will be fun

1. Magic doesn't scale. the smaller the game the more those 12pd have to wreck things. the higher the points the more the winds of magic may limit you

2.the higher unit caps arn't that bad. yeah 6 specials sounds bad. But it's still capped by %

3. The mistake of overloading on specials and rares. spending 50% in specials leaves only 750 to spend on lords heroes and rares. and thats only using the base 25% for troops.

4.using things that you normaly cant. Big units of blood knights, a vermin lord, bone giants, dual daemon princes. At this point level you have to fill in points with units that may never see the light of day.

5. A lot of armies have units that don't have models. This is a great chance to scratch build something and truly make your army your own, and is better than buying new units these days.

Ultimate Life Form
14-07-2010, 20:39
4.using things that you normaly cant.

You can perfectly use a Verminlord in 2000 points and I plan doing so.

I actually see no incentive to enlarge my armies anytime soon; for now we're all struggling to field minimum Core.

Tae
14-07-2010, 20:43
2.the higher unit caps arn't that bad. yeah 6 specials sounds bad. But it's still capped by %

6 Great Cannons accompanied by 6 Mortars (for 1050 points) would respectfully disagree.

goodz
14-07-2010, 20:45
Both my armies are over 3k points already, and I owned a lot of core troops to begin with but I can't say i especially care for 3000 point battles. We usually play 1500-2500 just because it doesn't take as long. At the gw i go too battles are generally around 2000 points often less. I have never entered a tournament so perhaps those are going to use the set ammounts;)

yabbadabba
14-07-2010, 20:47
I actually see no incentive to enlarge my armies anytime soon; for now we're all struggling to field minimum Core. Speak for yourself :-D. Age and steadily collecting one army has given me:

60 Halberdiers
100 Spearmen
50 Swordsmen
100 Archers/Huntsmen
100 Handgunners
45 Knights (alright 15 will probably be Inner Circle).
60 Militia
30 Crossbowmen
:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

pointyteeth
14-07-2010, 21:34
I agree, I'd love to get some 3000 point games going (though I don't agree with all your points, I agree with most). My gaming group usually plays 2250 because we mostly try out army lists for tournaments.

@ yabbadabba - i'd love to play that army! Its a nostalgic walk back to my 5th edition Empire army. Slap down a unit of 20 knights panther, 75 halberdiers, and 30 crossbowmen.... damn, now I want to start an empire army for 8th :(

Malorian
14-07-2010, 21:37
My gaming group usually plays 2250 because we mostly try out army lists for tournaments.

You might want to check with tournament organizers to see what point total they are actually going to go with in 8th.

DarkstarSabre
14-07-2010, 21:41
I actually see no incentive to enlarge my armies anytime soon; for now we're all struggling to field minimum Core.

I refuse to accept this statement in relation to a Lizardman army.

Unless you were fielding exclusively skinks?

pointyteeth
14-07-2010, 21:43
You might want to check with tournament organizers to see what point total they are actually going to go with in 8th.

I've heard 2500 bandied about, but no decisions are being made for at least 3 months. Personally, I'm going to start planning for 3000 points and even if it doesn't come to pass I'll have enough models spare that I can play with more than the same list from time to time

Frankly
14-07-2010, 21:45
Speak for yourself :-D. Age and steadily collecting one army has given me:

60 Halberdiers
100 Spearmen
50 Swordsmen
100 Archers/Huntsmen
100 Handgunners
45 Knights (alright 15 will probably be Inner Circle).
60 Militia
30 Crossbowmen
:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

hehehe :) Congratz mate, thats alot of panic tests(jokes)

Ultimate Life Form
14-07-2010, 21:46
Speak for yourself :-D

Actually I do; I was referring to my group.


I refuse to accept this statement in relation to a Lizardman army.

Unless you were fielding exclusively skinks?

My staple Saurus block only comes in at 250 points, and the two minimum Skink units I used pro forma don't do much to alleviate the problem. I chose to spend the points (and money) on up to 4 Stegs, though it seems I'll need the 3000 points to field them after all. For now it's time to paint more Saurus Warriors.

Malorian
14-07-2010, 21:54
My staple Saurus block only comes in at 250 points, and the two minimum Skink units I used pro forma don't do much to alleviate the problem. I chose to spend the points (and money) on up to 4 Stegs, though it seems I'll need the 3000 points to field them after all. For now it's time to paint more Saurus Warriors.

If only there was something called the Tale of Fantasy Painters... a place where you could work with others to paint up your army... and if only a new one was starting next month...

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264806

;)

jamesterjlrb
14-07-2010, 21:56
At my local GW we're playing 2999 to stop stuff like 12 Goblin spear chukkas etc.

Malorian
14-07-2010, 21:58
At my local GW we're playing 2999 to stop stuff like 12 Goblin spear chukkas etc.

12 spear chukkas, 4 steam tanks, 6 cannons, and stuff like that have less to do about the rules and more to do with people being dicks...

Ultimate Life Form
14-07-2010, 22:01
If only there was something called the Tale of Fantasy Painters... a place where you could work with others to paint up your army... and if only a new one was starting next month...

;)

Sorry Mal, but I can't work under pressure, and I still have 150 Skaven models to do to reach my quota.

However you could try and explain the basics to me via PM. I looked into it once, but it was way too complicated for me to comprehend. If you explain the gist to me in laymen terms I might catch on.

yabbadabba
14-07-2010, 22:05
@ yabbadabba - i'd love to play that army! Its a nostalgic walk back to my 5th edition Empire army. Slap down a unit of 20 knights panther, 75 halberdiers, and 30 crossbowmen.... damn, now I want to start an empire army for 8th :( Goes with the 4 Helblasters, 8 canon, 4 mortars, 32 pistolliers, 10 Outriders, 60 Greatswords, 25 Flagellants and a bucket of characters.
Curiously only 1 Steam Tanks and no Helstorm :eek:

I have started using up some spare command models so each unit has 2 standards and, where possible, 2 musicians. I love the idea of fielding a Handgunner Unit with an Emperor's Colour and and Empire Flag, Napoleonic style :D

kylek2235
14-07-2010, 22:21
12 spear chukkas, 4 steam tanks, 6 cannons, and stuff like that have less to do about the rules and more to do with people being dicks...

You can never prevent people from being dicks, but GW could have prevented them from fielding ******* lists.

yabbadabba
14-07-2010, 22:23
You can never prevent people from being dicks, but GW could have prevented them from fielding ******* lists. Why? If you feel that strongly, call them a dick and then don't play them.

Choice is a double edged sword.

Malorian
14-07-2010, 22:24
You can never prevent people from being dicks, but GW could have prevented them from fielding ******* lists.

Impossible, people will always look for the loophole.

The best way to control the lists of people is the good ol 'If you're a prick I'm not going to play you again'...

pointyteeth
14-07-2010, 22:28
You can never prevent people from being dicks, but GW could have prevented them from fielding ******* lists.

true, but it also would have prevented people from taking characterful lists (6 units of Forsaken for example...though no one likely ever would :rolleyes:)

@ Malorian - another Tale of fantasy painters you say? I need some motivation to paint my Beasts :D

PARTYCHICORITA
14-07-2010, 22:49
I disagree completely with the original poster.

Everything i hated about 7th (double tank, HE taking 2 dragons, OP deamon lords and heroes, etc) are somehow less of an issue now on 2K-2250pts games; if the game goes up to 2500 of more all this things comeback hard and i would rather avoid them.

My gaming group is considering changin our 2Kpts standard to 2250 but that's as far as i personally wanna go.

Stonewyrm
14-07-2010, 23:42
My friend and I started at 2400 (7th standard 2250). He played HE and feilded 3 units. I played Brets and fielded 7. It didn't really feel like warhammer. I did some list building and found that at 2600+ I could feild the sort of things I did in 7th (thus getting the "Warhammer feeling"). At 3000 I had 400 to 500 pts to add some of the cool stuff.

Brets and WoC seemed to have a similar "sweet spot" where core was met, my favorite units were there, it looked like an Army and I felt good about fielding them. Even though the armies are very different as to the point costs they both looked good between 2600 and 2999 pts.

Trust me I don't want 4 Trebs, 4 Giants or 4 units of Grail Knights. Neither do I want 3 Hellcannons (4 at 3280). I sure as heck don't want to face 4 Hydras, 4 Giants or any multiple of Adomonation, Screeming Bell or whatever the heck they are called.

Needing 25% core and the steadfast rule might not have reduced the model count but it did reduce the number of units. So I do think points will creep up towards 3k. GW should have made "Grand Army" kick in at 4k or even 5k.

Stonewyrm

Tymell
14-07-2010, 23:49
Why? If you feel that strongly, call them a dick and then don't play them.

Choice is a double edged sword.


Impossible, people will always look for the loophole.

The best way to control the lists of people is the good ol 'If you're a prick I'm not going to play you again'...

These +1. People will always find ways to abuse things.

Though in truth, I'm actually not worried about such things. The same examples are always used: large numbers of artillery weapons, but remember that a points investment is still a points investment, whether you're using percentages or slots. Sure, someone could maybe take a half a dozen cannons. But that's a lot of points waiting to be swallowed up by the right unit.

Putting all your eggs in one basket makes for a full-looking basket, but it also makes for a big mess when dropped.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
14-07-2010, 23:54
You can perfectly use a Verminlord in 2000 points and I plan doing so.

I actually see no incentive to enlarge my armies anytime soon; for now we're all struggling to field minimum Core.

Heck, I can field 1500 points of Empire knights or about 900 points of goblin wolfriders [playing for a long time and not minding unipose models (thank you BattleMasters) means core is not an issue]. 3000 points should be fun for gamers who have been buying for a while.

yabbadabba
14-07-2010, 23:56
I've been looking at a few Empire 3k builds and there is quite a bit of variety. What I have stucked to is:
1 Engineer
2 x Canon
2 x Mortar
1 x Helblaster
1 x Helstorm
2 x 5 Pistolliers + Champ + Repeater Hand pistol

This gives me 3 5" pie plates, some monster sniping, some defensive fire and 2 units to hound skirmishers and war machines.

Then it comes down to the right mix of Infantry and Cavalry

indytims
15-07-2010, 02:32
The group I game with will still be hanging around the 2k mark.

GW can "Want" us to play bigger games all they want - but we still choose the size. :)

Granted, no one in my group plays in tournaments/conventions 'competitively', so we sure won't be missing out on anything if tournies move to 3k.

Personally, I LOVE 1250-1500 pt games, myself.

Sexiest_hero
15-07-2010, 03:59
I don't think you'll be able to have more than 2 Stanks in 3k raes are limited to 750 at 3k.
At 3k people wi invest in tons of anti warmachine goodness.

ghostline
15-07-2010, 05:02
The thing about the stank is that unless your empire or dwarfs you dont have anything cost effective to counter the stank.

DaemonReign
15-07-2010, 05:16
In 7th Ed my group played ME campaigns with battle-sizes ranging from 1500 to 4500.

We've decided to slap on another 500pts there now, given that GW has made it so much more fun to field and play with big armies! So now base battles are gonna go at 2000pts, and battles for Captiol-tiles are gonna be at 5000pts.

This is perhaps what I like most about 8th Ed!!

Lord Solar Plexus
15-07-2010, 05:45
3k isn't a new standard, period.


Why? If you feel that strongly, call them a dick and then don't play them.

Choice is a double edged sword.

So tell me, what is the good side of chosing hundreds of warmachines? What will people in rural areas do? Not play at all?

yabbadabba
15-07-2010, 07:25
So tell me, what is the good side of chosing hundreds of warmachines? What will people in rural areas do? Not play at all?No idea what you are on about.

Lord Solar Plexus
15-07-2010, 07:42
You said that there are two sides to choice. What is the good side of being able to chose ******* lists?

Secondly you suggested not to play dicks but I have always found this suggestion to be of little use. Not everyone lives in a metropolitan area with multiple stores to play in. Some people have only a small gaming group, others can't drive around for miles to get a game in. Not playing that guy might well mean not to play at all, or very rarely.

yabbadabba
15-07-2010, 07:47
You said that there are two sides to choice. What is the good side of being able to chose ******* lists? First I didn't say anything about whether a list was good or bad. Choice of army list is based on many things, which is probably why some tournament only players are having a hard time of it at the moment - highly specialised armies were unlikely to survive an edition change and paradigm shift.


Secondly you suggested not to play dicks but I have always found this suggestion to be of little use. Not everyone lives in a metropolitan area with multiple stores to play in. Some people have only a small gaming group, others can't drive around for miles to get a game in. Not playing that guy might well mean not to play at all, or very rarely. And thats why choice is a double edged sword.