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Loki
15-07-2010, 15:36
I know this is a dumb question, but does anyone have good resources on this?

Say, works of fiction or fan conversions. It just seems that a "modern" equivalent for Imperial Guard is left out. Or, what about how societies on our technological base or culture are handled?

Farseer Dave
15-07-2010, 15:47
Hey man ,

maybe im just a ***** (high pobability) but im not 100% sure what ur asking?

if its is there a modern day equivalent to the imperial Guard they fight alot like a veitnam era American army.

if your question is how do the imperials deal with societies with our tech level simply they dont , all human tech is based on stc's so it is highly unlikly a world is anywhere near like ours. culture wise their religions would be taken apart and they would be thought the glorys of the imperial truth..or else face the end of a bayonet.

Farseer Dave.

Erwos
15-07-2010, 15:52
I agree that this question seems open to interpretation.

One of the Gaunt's Ghosts books (Straight Silver?) deals with trench warfare on a planet with roughly the technology level we do, perhaps a few years lower, that has just rejoined the Imperium. So, yes, this is covered in the fluff.

Why aren't there are Guard regiments armed with M16-alikes and technology like ours? Basically because once a planet tithes to the IG, their troops are outfitted with standard Imperial gear, and that's all mass-produced to roughly the same specs. There is some variance (see codex IG for lasgun variant details), but, by and large, it's all the same power level.

Farseer Dave
15-07-2010, 15:58
I agree that this question seems open to interpretation.

One of the Gaunt's Ghosts books (Straight Silver?) deals with trench warfare on a planet with roughly the technology level we do, perhaps a few years lower, that has just rejoined the Imperium. So, yes, this is covered in the fluff.

Didnt know this , I stand corrected , I need to read that series..


Why aren't there are Guard regiments armed with M16-alikes and technology like ours? Basically because once a planet tithes to the IG, their troops are outfitted with standard Imperial gear, and that's all mass-produced to roughly the same specs. There is some variance (see codex IG for lasgun variant details), but, by and large, it's all the same power level.

That and the techpriets would think our tech is techno-Heresy , just see how they view the tau's superior weapons.

Farseer Dave.

Loki
15-07-2010, 16:26
It's a general question, really.

"Modern" Imperial Guard...the closest I can think of are Tanith IIRC. IE: they have a level of technology like night vision. What I mean is an army capable maneuver/modern warfare instead of late 19th century military doctrine. So basically, ones representing a 1960s -> 21st century military, preferably with a more modern aesthetic instead of looking retro-futuristic or historical.

Same with "modern" planets that would have technology atleast in mid-20th century levels. Or heck, even modern proxies that would have cogitators or PC towers with some biological implants instead of it all being hardware.

Or is pretty much the whole IoM stuck with a mix of 19th century and pre-WW2 societies with some retro-future tech?

I'm also curious if there's any stories (fanfiction, semi-canon or canon) that deal with such scenarios. This is in part because I've been thinking about a gothic-punk planet setting. IE: A resemblance to contemporary Earth, but with a gothic/imperial flare to it.

Weaver
15-07-2010, 17:00
Not at all. There are plenty of IG regiments that use far more modern tactics. From Air Cavalry Regiments like the Harakoni Warhawks and the Elysian Drop Troopers, to the largely mechanised forces of the Armageddon Steel Legion and the Death Korps of Krieg, to Special Forces Operators detached from the Storm Trooper Regiments. Even the Cadian Shock Troopers, though being portrayed in most of the artwork as fighting massive, WWI-II style pitched battles, engage in what you might consider 'modern warfare'. The old cityfight book is an excellent resource for that.

The thing is, modern-style warfare has two main factors working against it in the 40k setting.

1) It's not as epic. Door-to-door firefights with insurgent forces just lack the scale of massive WWII battles such as the Invasion of Normandy. And if there's one thing 40k is about, it's scale. It's hard to talk about millions of soldiers dying in a single engagement on a single day when that engagement is mostly infantry-on-infantry urban combat using guerilla tactics. However, on the big open fields of Agri Worlds or Industrial Wastelands outside hives, you can add massive Armour Battalions, Fiendish Warmachines, and Titans into the fray. The whole thing just gets much bigger, and a whole lote more epic.

2) Sort of leading from the above. It seems like many engagements in the Imperium are not fought in what is considered the 'modern warfare environment'. The average guard regiment wouldn't fare very well against many of the Imperium's enemies in an urban environment like today's, where it is difficult to bring warmachines and tanks to bear. In terms of fluff, the average guardsman is no match for the basic footsoldiers of many other races/armies. So, they fight where their advantage lies: in numbers, and in technology. An open field allows them to leverage their vast numbers of infantry, vehicles, and other crazy mechanical contraptions, whereas an ubran environment would somewhat level the playing field for the enemy.

Ever seen a modern beach assault training exercise executed by a modern, well-equppied military force? it looks an awful lot like the Normandy Invasion. Pitched battles like that just don't happen so often any more. The beauty of 40k is that they do, right along side more modern combat enviroments.

Loki
15-07-2010, 20:07
I was under the impression the DK was more of a trench warfare/siege style army than a modern one?

massey
15-07-2010, 20:55
I agree alot with what Weaver said. 40K is presented with a lot of WWII symbolism because WWII was the last "big" war. It's about imagery. Big explosions, big battles, 70mm films and huge, staggering scale. Those artistic decisions lead to an anachronistic style of warfare where the guy in the tank tries to hit you with his sword.

Are there some "modern" forces? Sure, if you want. It is your game, after all. And it's a big galaxy.

Why all the old WWII vehicles? In the massey-verse, it's because those are the lowest common denominator that is still effective. Every place can manufacture the Russ, and you can find replacement parts for it anywhere. Is an M1-A2 Abrams a better tank? Sure. But good luck finding a spare widget for the thing out in the Xantares Nebula. Vehicles like that are often reliant on one particular factory on one particular world. The same is true for an M-16. How many places manufacture 5.56mm ammo? Are you sure they're going to have it wherever you get sent next? Might as well go with the lasgun.

What that results in (to me, at least), is a place where many local PDFs will use non-STC equipment. Not alien technology, or stuff that's so high-tech that the Admech is going to be curious, but basic technology commonly understood to be of human origin, that simply hasn't been chosen to be put in general use by the Imperium. Tanks better than the Russ? Sure. But they'll be more rare, more difficult to produce, something where the Imperium as a whole said "eh, not worth it", so you won't see that sort of thing very often in regular IG units.

Gutted
16-07-2010, 00:04
Tau are the closest thing that I can think of to a force that uses something close to modern day military tactics.

I'm sure there are more modern IG forces out there but for the most part IG are tied to themes that are more historical. Their the imperium's cannon fodder and the tactics and approach to warfare reflect this.

Tsavo
16-07-2010, 03:58
The same is true for an M-16. How many places manufacture 5.56mm ammo? Are you sure they're going to have it wherever you get sent next? Might as well go with the lasgun.


one of the gaunts ghosts books has a short part about the shortage of the right kinda mag for their lasguns.. the other 2 units used one kind and they used another kind.