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Yunaris
16-07-2010, 20:08
Greetings!

My first proper post on the forums, I'm currently constructing some fluff for the background of my Dark Elf army and I've been considering a couple of ideas, however I'd also like the ideas to be tactically viable aswell as good from a fluff point of view.

I've been considering an army with a Dread Lady at the head of an army, trying to step into the boots of her sadly, accidently, murdered, by a razor while shaving, husband and takes the forum of a corsair style fleet. My main question is would a Dread Lady ever actually wear a Sea Dragon cloak as a useful item to purchase and also capable of surviving being stuck on the front lines in say a corsair unit?

A few other questions I would have:

Is the Executioners Axe a viable weapon for a DreadLady to wield on foot?

Would a pure Khainite army of Witch Elves, Executioners, Assassins, Cauldrons and Hag Queens work or would it need more depth to actually be tactically viable?

sulla
16-07-2010, 23:47
Under the 8th edition combat rules, such a force is totally disfunctional.

1) It would get ripped apart by shooting and to a lesser degree, magic.

2)Your heroes will get ripped apart by rank and filers in combat.

The only heroes that are reliable in the DE army now are the pendant lord and the cauldron BSB. All your other characters should be casters (probably with the lore of death to assassinate enemy casters in revenge for your fighters being so poor now....

Vandelan
16-07-2010, 23:55
My main question is would a Dread Lady ever actually wear a Sea Dragon cloak as a useful item to purchase and also capable of surviving being stuck on the front lines in say a corsair unit?

Yes, Dark Elves are one of the most gender neutral armies in the game.

In Naggaroth, you'd probably get killed for questioning a Dread Lady's ability as a leader.

There's no reason why a Dread Lady wouldn't be able to take a Sea Dragon Cloak anyway.

Yunaris
17-07-2010, 00:26
Thank you both very much for your replies!

I'm inclined to agree just from looking, it seems a Khanite army would simply get shot to bits and then end up speared on mass infantry formations, such a shame, the idea seemed pretty awesome.

So with that in mind, I've started considering two ideas. One being a force set up under a Sorceress with a Dreadlady in hand off to get revenge on a bunch of Saphery mages who embaressed them the last time they raided a High Elven fort. The other idea is a force based out of one of the Northern Wastes watch towers, constructed around the same two leaders. My questions mostly fall down to this:

Are DreadLords/Ladies capable on foot? Would they need to be mounted to stand any chance in combat or are they relatively safe stuffed in a fat body of spearmen or another infantry regiment?

Basically I'm wondering if I need to mount her on a black dragon or is she safe on foot, if shes not, would certain upgrades make that possible?

I'm personally a big fan of the Dark Elves, I quite like the gender neutrality, especially fan of the sort-of-ish Drow behaviour they pull off. I like sophisticated evil, not crazy evil!

chivalrous
17-07-2010, 00:40
I have a khainite force and to be honest, I haven't had a great deal of success with it in 7th and haven't had an opportunity to try it out in 8th yet.

While sulla makes a valid point about getting torn apart by magic, it really is only the witch elves that suffer missile fire this more than other units, Executioners have heavy armour and weather the blows as (in)effectively as any other infantry unit (bar corsairs).
The problem Executioners suffer now is that they always strike last even when they charge, while they do get to attack using the support rule, it does mean that more often than not, you'll loose most, if not all of your front rank against other armies core infantry and get utterly pasted if you're daft enough to attack a horde to the front.

In order to make the army effective you need some cheap core units to screen the Khainite units as they close in on the opponent and some really fancy deployment and movement to get the Executioners into the flanks of opponent where they stand a chance of striking back.

Assassins are best placed either on the extreme flank of a unit, so as to reduce the number of attack they'll receive from the enemy troops or always put in a challenge with an enemy character (regardless of how lethal the opponent is, either way the assassin's going to die very quickly)

Don't forget that Harpies can fit into the Khainite theme if you follow the background material that believes Harpies are the reincarnation of slain Witch Elves. You'll need a unit or few of these as war machine hunters.

Magic protection: As much as people complain about the Ring of Hotek, in an army with no Sorceress support it's a must and I despair of anyone begrudging you its use in a dedicated Khainite army. There is still a lot of ambiguity about how the ring works though, with two strong interpretations of how to read the rule.
Not having seen the new list of common items in the BBRB* I don't know how much magic protection is available to you but if there's a banner that gives magic resistance, bung it on an important unit if they can afford it; Null Talisman(s) too for an Executioner champion.
Otherwise, anything that might make a unit more survivable like banners that give ward saves or additions to their armour save (please tell me they brought back the standard of shielding).

Lastly, is your Dreadlady going to be a Hag or a standard Lord? bear in mind that the only characters that can accompany Khainite units must have the Khainite rule. Oh and forget the Executioner's Axe. It's very pretty and very powerful but if she goes toe to toe with another character or a monster or even a unit of knights that got the charge, she's going to die before she gets to attack back (unless also in a unit with the ASF banner and that's a hell of an expensive unit, not to mention a very tempting target for your opponent).
My weapon of choice is the sword that ignores armour saves but Crimson death comes a close second, even if it doesn't allow you to use a shield. and again, the Pendant of Kaloth is very effective until you come up against a very large number of low strength attacks (like a horde of goblins with spears for instance)
It may not be suitable for a Khainite force but I'm very tempted by the dragon egg now. The tactic being to walk up very close to an enemy horde unit and use the template, crossing my fingers for a failed panic test. To be honest that's probably a better tactic for a hero on a Dark Pegasus or in a unit of Dark Riders.

*Bloody Big Rulebook (is that what we're calling it?)

Yunaris
17-07-2010, 14:29
Thank you very much for your reply Chivalrous!

I like your idea regarding harpies, especially considering the army would lack mobility pretty badly if just fielding primarily Khanite forces. If I was to go for the Khanite army theme I'd probably just pick up Hag to direct the forces.

I'm glad you mentioned that about the axe, as you say, it sounds pretty and I had quite a few ideas for some customisation but I can see the Crimson Death is indeed actually an even better idea to fit the customisation I had in mind, thank you!

Both theme ideas I currently have are very tempting, both a force based out of one of the northern watchtowers or a force of Khanite worshippers. However I may settle on the watchtower idea for now then stretch into the Khanite one too in a later period, when I've learned how to play the army better since it sounds fairly complicated.

I have one more question, however:

A DreadLady equipped with Crimson Death, would she be best placed in an elite flank unit of say Black Guard or better placed in the horde of Spearmen? Are DreadLadies ever worth mounting on a Black Dragon or are mounts better reserved for Soceressi?

chivalrous
17-07-2010, 14:49
I have one more question, however:

A DreadLady equipped with Crimson Death, would she be best placed in an elite flank unit of say Black Guard or better placed in the horde of Spearmen? Are DreadLadies ever worth mounting on a Black Dragon or are mounts better reserved for Soceressi?

That's two questions ;)

I'd experiment over a few games. Both units will be missile/magic magnets, the horde because the opponent will feel the need to whittle it down to a manageable size before it reaches their lines; the Black Guard build because the opponent will assume it's the got the ASF banner and if it's got the general in it, it's an easy unit destroy from a distance and leave the Dreadlady unsupported or dead.
In the latter case, where the general is in the BG unit and you have a horde unit, it'll be a surprise by your opponent as to which unit they target, the small easy, expensive one or the large dangerous one that needs whittling down.
My personal preference would be to put her in the horde as the unit will have a bit more longevity and the Dread lady has a little more chance of reaching a combat position.

As for the Mount option, a Black Dragon is a better option for a well protected combat lord as it will attract a lot of attention from your opponents artillery. With cannons and stone throwers being scarily accurate now, the Dragon needs to be in combat asap, which is not a place your sorceress ever wants to be, regardless of how strong her ward save.

Yunaris
17-07-2010, 15:09
That is two questions, indeed, I apologise! Thank you for that advice. I think I'll get to planning a conversion to making an appropriate DreadLady with a halberd then!

With cannons and so forth being so highly accurate, I assume Sorceressi mounted on Dark Pegasus' aren't as valuable as they once were? Is it better to stick them in a crossbow regiment these days?

sulla
17-07-2010, 21:33
Not having seen the new list of common items in the BBRB* I don't know how much magic protection is available to you but if there's a banner that gives magic resistance, bung it on an important unit if they can afford it; Null Talisman(s) too for an Executioner champion.



Too bad hags, executioner and witch elf champs can't have magic items. Basically, the only way to get magic protection for your khainites is the cauldron ward save or have hellebron join the unit. You can get an MR1 banner too but that will only reall help out if you have already buffed a unit with the cauldron.

You're probably better off with multiple cauldrons if you play a khainite force anyway.