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Paraelix
19-07-2010, 23:15
Vampire Lord-
Sword of Bloodshed (+3A)
Red Fury
Forbidden Lore (Beasts)

Cast Savage Beast of Horros...

Ws7 S8 A10+attacks generated

And still plenty of points for kitting out armour/ward saves.

Ultimate Life Form
19-07-2010, 23:21
Thanks, good idea. But ever heard of dispel?

Nocculum
19-07-2010, 23:23
Before posting this sort of thing, please take the time, care and consideration to realise the sheer weakness, and illegibility of the build you're suggesting.

In the vein of the FAQ for Daemons, and the statistical limits in the Rulebook, first up: the limit of attacks a model can generate (except for Red Fury triggering) is 10.

Secondly, this character, as it stands, is already 350 points. You have 15 points for Vampire Powers remaining, and 100 for magic items, but your Lord slot caps at 562 for 2,250.

Thirdly, there is no guarantee you will be able to cast Savage Beast of Horros during a game - your Lord will be 7 STR5 attacks at WS7 the majority of the time - although Hatred helps this.

Fourthly, you will require, most likely, the additional magic level to not let your army buckle to the pressures of enemy magic, and to override magic defence in turn. So that's 385 base without items.

A combat character does not overcome Steadfast, nor does it re-raise your own army (a much, much, much needed component of the Vampire Counts army under 8th Edition).

Hate to break it to you, there are much better combat monsters, and this is far from ridiculousness...

Paraelix
19-07-2010, 23:23
Oh I know. But the possibility is terrifying... And I would hazard a guess many people (depending on power dice) would be more worried about letting him Dragon-ify.

Doommasters
19-07-2010, 23:23
:Vampire Lord:
Infinite Hatred (re-roll hits)
Red fury (extra attacks for wounds)
Beguile (re-roll wounds)

Sword of Bloodshed (+3 attacks)
Potion of Strength
Nightshroud (everyone attacks last)
Beasts +1S +1T

Add in 3 coprse carts -3 to cast and a black coach to steal powerdice. The lord and his unit smashed its way through approximatly 1200 points of my WoC army inclduing exalteds. Every time he got low on wounds he was healed back up.

Even though i got hammered it was a really fun game! Good on the VC for finding some cool new combos they needed it.

I don't feel i have no hope against VC like in 7th now i feel its a more even field know. Plus i am sure i woudln't be to hard to build a lord who can lay waste to this undead beast!

HeroFox
19-07-2010, 23:30
Old news :( The Red Fury with +3 Attack Sword is very tasty and explosive.. if only for a while.

But hey! At least we got a sure answer on the HE w/ GWs :)

Maoriboy007
19-07-2010, 23:36
:Vampire Lord:
Infinite Hatred (re-roll hits)
Red fury (extra attacks for wounds)
Beguile (re-roll wounds)

Sword of Bloodshed (+3 attacks)
Potion of Strength
Nightshroud (everyone attacks last)
Beasts +1S +1T

Add in 3 coprse carts -3 to cast and a black coach to steal powerdice. The lord and his unit smashed its way through approximatly 1200 points of my WoC army inclduing exalteds. Every time he got low on wounds he was healed back up.

Even though i got hammered it was a really fun game! Good on the VC for finding some cool new combos they needed it.

I don't feel i have no hope against VC like in 7th now i feel its a more even field know. Plus i am sure i woudln't be to hard to build a lord who can lay waste to this undead beast!

Chaos Runeshield, 4+ Ward and cast beast lore on your own unit. Rock up with GW marauders Chaos Knights or chosen. A couple of Warshrines on Tzeench chosn should give you a 3+ Ward.

Nocculum
19-07-2010, 23:39
Buboes also does the trick ;)

xxRavenxx
19-07-2010, 23:45
In the vein of the FAQ for Daemons, and the statistical limits in the Rulebook, first up: the limit of attacks a model can generate (except for Red Fury triggering) is 10.

Could someone give me a page reference for this please? I know a couple of things in my army which can generate 10+ attacks, so this is of interest to me.

Is there an allowance for if somthing generates D6 attacks? What about a character who can double his attacks?

Doommasters
19-07-2010, 23:46
Buboes also does the trick ;)

With the Corpse carts -3 to cast plus wizard levels and the Black Coach and whatever else he had to crush magic not much was going through.

Yip, a tough as nails unit and lord would proably be the best to send at him. I think it was like -7 to cast!

Doommasters
19-07-2010, 23:52
Could someone give me a page reference for this please? I know a couple of things in my army which can generate 10+ attacks, so this is of interest to me.

Is there an allowance for if somthing generates D6 attacks? What about a character who can double his attacks?


Don't have the book with me, but i am pretty sure it just means your stat line cant go higher than 10A but items/magic etc that grant bnous attacks that don't affect your stat line are fine.

Maoriboy007
20-07-2010, 05:17
With the Corpse carts -3 to cast plus wizard levels and the Black Coach and whatever else he had to crush magic not much was going through.

Yip, a tough as nails unit and lord would proably be the best to send at him. I think it was like -7 to cast!

Thats a lot of corpse carts, does your opponant know that they don't count towards his minimum core requirements?

shelfunit.
20-07-2010, 05:29
Don't have the book with me, but i am pretty sure it just means your stat line cant go higher than 10A but items/magic etc that grant bnous attacks that don't affect your stat line are fine.

Yup attacks (and every other stat) capped at 10.

Sygerrik
20-07-2010, 05:30
Oh I know. But the possibility is terrifying... And I would hazard a guess many people (depending on power dice) would be more worried about letting him Dragon-ify.

Why do people fear this spell? It's practically useless. Big monsters can't autobreak units, and unless you charged your Wizard into combat before casting, you won't be in combat until your opponent has had at least two chances to dispel it at its base casting value. Also, turning yourself into a monster pops you out of a unit!

I have played two games where this thing went off. One game, Teclis IFs it, turns into a dragon, breathes on my unit. I lose some guys. My turn, I charge the dragon, pour most of my power dice into dispelling it, then squish the T2 lone Teclis. Yeah, I might not have dispelled it, but I was rolling 6 dice with a +4 to dispel. Odds were on my side, and it won me the game.

Game two, a Great Bray-Shaman turns into a dragon. He miscasts and takes a wound, but it goes off. On my turn I roll my Doomwheel over to the Dragon, dispel the Transformation with power dice, and S6 Zzzap! his face into the ground.

It's a spell that requires your expensive wizard to be exposed to enemy fire for a turn. It is hugely risky and difficult to pull off. It's certainly not nearly as good as Savage Beast, Curse of Anraheir or Wyssan's Wildform.

Paraelix
20-07-2010, 05:56
Also, turning yourself into a monster pops you out of a unit!


Incorrect. Please read the spell.

Also Herofox... Please grow up and stop harassing people for putting forth their point of view and a logical argument to accompany.

Scythe
20-07-2010, 06:09
Vampire Lord-
Sword of Bloodshed (+3A)
Red Fury
Forbidden Lore (Beasts)

Cast Savage Beast of Horros...

Ws7 S8 A10+attacks generated

And still plenty of points for kitting out armour/ward saves.

Tss, not optimal. Take forbidden lore on a supporting vampire instead, possibly with a power scroll. That way, you have enough pts free on your lord to get infinite hatred, greatly enhancing red fury, and you don't risk your lord blowing up when you throw 6 dice at the savage beast spell.

So, get red fury, infinite hatred, and a 3rd 25 pts bloodline power (dread knight, beguile or avatar of death probably), the +3 attacks sword, and perhaps the crown of the damned so you have a 4+ ward as well.

If you want that 10 attack S8 vampire with red fury making him absurd, better do it properly :p

Astafas
20-07-2010, 06:22
This is a completely viable combo - especially now. Red Fury + Hatred + Dread Knight is pretty awesome I have used it in a tournament to smash my way through one of those annoying skaven contraptions that doesnt ever run...

With a +3 attack blade it will only get better - remembering that you are A7 but the additional attacks arent stacking they are just extra die rolls.

A couple of problems:
A) You still have to get into b2b to use it though. Easy to avoid
B) You are going to have 40pts to protect your general. Easy to kill because best up thats a 2+ save 4+ ward so all it takes is something with I8 and down you go. Then down goes your army and nothing sucks more than having to pass crumble tests... MUCH better not to get into b2b with the one vamp you really need.
C) its not going to stop people hitting you back unless you really carve it up AND
D) no one is going to let you get that spell off when it counts.

Combat vamp is completely viable but I think your key concern should be keeping your lord alive - then maybe a second lord on horseback as you have planned it but I would keep them CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP and not both with the +3a... 4 x s7 with extra attacks and rerolls probably does the job anyway.

My 2c :)

DaemonReign
20-07-2010, 08:00
In the vein of the FAQ for Daemons, and the statistical limits in the Rulebook, first up: the limit of attacks a model can generate (except for Red Fury triggering) is 10. far from ridiculousness...

I know this is slightly off topic but we've been discussing this new cap of 10 for attacks and in my group we're leaning toward ignoring that new Errata thing. For Dark Insanity, for example, the Gift is so totally changed that instead of buying "the chance of extra attacks for some risk" you instead get "the risk of fewer attacks with the chance of 1-3 extra attacks" - so a 55 point item has become a 25 pts item.

We have a guy playing Vampires as well, and the same thing goes there.

It just annoys us all that GW makes changes like these and somehow thinks Item/Gifts can remain at the same point-cost.

Coldblood666
20-07-2010, 08:23
Ill stick with good old Mannfred on a barded steed with the skull-staff. +5 to cast and to dispel, and he knows all lore of death and lore of vampires spells. 5 wounds is also pretty awesome :D