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ashc
20-07-2010, 15:22
Hi guys,

I just wondered whether anyone could give me some information on the Vraks books, namely what exactly is in part 2? I remember reading the first a while back but remember little of it, in particular I would like to know what others think of the renegade list presented in it.

Ash

DuskRaider
20-07-2010, 15:54
Vraks Part II features the Servants of Slaughter, aka Khorne Traitor Guard. It's actually not that bad, you get Khorne Berserkers as Elite options, Berserker Ogryn (although they're in the Undivided list as well); Hounds of Xaphan, which seem nice I guess; and Beastmen.

From what I remember, I believe the HQ and Priests got +1 A and WS, but I'm not certain as I don't have the book in front of me right now. I've tried it out a few times, but found myself more drawn to the Servants of Decay. The combo of gunline Guard and elite assault choices like Berserkers make a great combo and leave your opponent stuck between a rock and a hard place if using other options like Dread Claws.

Oh, you can also use Hell Blades, Hell Talons, and Malcadors... Obviously with permission, and I'd only use these in Apoc anyhow.

Earthbeard
20-07-2010, 16:19
It's a forgeworld list so it's never going to be the most balanced points or effective.

I like all three of the Chaos lists, never used the Imperial ones so couldn't say. But it gives a nice varied Lost and the Damned feel, with quite a few unique units.

I recommended the books for any chaos player (who doesn't have friends who think FW is somehow overpowered and unusable)

Mannimarco
20-07-2010, 16:37
People are beginning to acknowledge that not all FW is broken overpowered super cheesy WAAC lists? My work here is done!

The servants of slaughter list is ok, you get your khorne berserkers and ogryn berserkers in the same slot (elite) so you need to make a choice there, personally Id go with the khorne berserkers.

I prefer the list from vraks 3 with its plague marine and plague ogryns in the elite slot, zombies replacing beastmen and a heavy reliance on chemical weapons (banewolves and chemical mortars).

The Vraks series is what I bring up every month when sombody starts a chaos wishlist thread and screams for the retrun of LATD

DuskRaider
20-07-2010, 16:57
The problem is Ogryn Berserkers is, the combat drugs can kill them easier than your enemy can. When they hit, they hit like a ton of bricks though. The issue you'll run into with the Renegade lists in general is, they're based off of the 4th (or is it 3rd?) edition IG codex, which means you'll never be as effective as new Guard. The Chaos Marines and special units help a bit, but you'll always be outgunned when fighting their intended nemesis.

The nice thing is, I'm pretty sure you can use Lord Zhufor with Servants of Slaughter. That's a Terminator Lord WITH a Retinue of Terminators as guard. Is it game breaking? No. Is it fun to run with Berserkers, a ton of Traitor Guard infantry, and Beastmen? You bet it is! I just wish you could use Blood Slaughterers with RM.

If you decide to run Servants of Decay, I'd say use Necrosius as an HQ and take Plague Zombies. He gives them Furious Charge, which is definitely unexpected.

Hunger
20-07-2010, 17:27
People are beginning to acknowledge that not all FW is broken overpowered super cheesy WAAC lists? My work here is done!

The Vraks serioes is what I bring up every month when sombody starts a chaos wishlist thread and screams for the retrun of LATD

*high fives Mannimarco*

At last, somebody who agrees...

Green-is-best
20-07-2010, 17:29
There are army lists in the FW books? I always just looked at the purty pictures.

Mannimarco
20-07-2010, 17:41
The problem with necrosius (who I use as a commander for my CSM army) is he really does need a unit of plague marines to accompany him otherwise he's just gonna get shot and taking a unit of marines is 1 less slot for plague ogryns.

The Vraks series are very underpowered compared to the latest guard codex so you wont get orders/valks/vultures/vehicle squadrons/stormtrooper/tonnes of special characters but what you will get is a REAL LATD list thats a bit different from other alleged Chaos players who say "Yeah I play LATD, this CSM is Straken and these mech vets are blood pact"

To me and my local group (and the randoms who walk in off the street and are in aw of all the shiny FW stuff we use that they never get to see) this would be the same as walking in and saying "I play chaos space marines, this spiky guy here is a counts as Vulkan and these are storm shield termys"

ashc
20-07-2010, 19:08
So can someone summarise the different renegade lists? I am left slightly confused ;)

Mannimarco
20-07-2010, 20:57
Vraks 1:

HQ:

company command squad
enforcers
rogue psykers
apostate preachers

ELITES

alpha legion marines
disciples of xaphan
ogryn berserkers

TROOPS

renegade platoon
renegade armoured fist squad
workers rabble

FAST ATTACK

hellhound
sentinels
salamander scouts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

heavy weapon team
several different tanks
several different artillery units
weapon platforms
turret emplacements
sentry gun battery
minefield
artillery strikes

special character: Arkos the Faithless (CSM special character from alpha legion) RULES UPDATED IN VRAKS 3

VRAKS 2

HQ

exalted champion of khorne
company command squad

fire support squad
anti tank squad
mortar squad
enforcers
apostate preachers

ELITES:

disciples of xaphan
khorne berserkers
ogryn berserkers

TROOPS

renegade platoon
renegade armoured fist
mutant rabble
beastmen squads

FAST ATTACK

hounds of xaphan
sentinels
hellhound
salamander scouts

HEAVY SUPPORT

several tank variants
several artillery variants
weapon platforms
hell blade fighter
hell talon fighter bomber
turret emplacement
artillery strikes

VRAKS 3

plague marine exalted champion
company command squad

fire support squad
anti tank squad
mortar squad

enforcers
apostate preachers of nurgle
rogue psykers

TROOPS

renegade platoon
renegade armoured fist squad
mutant rabble
plague zombie horde

ELITES:

Disciples of xaphan
plague marines
plague ogryns

FAST ATTACK

chaos spawn
sentinels
hellhounds

HEAVY SUPPORT

several tanks variants
several artillery variants
weapon platforms
hell blades
hell talons
artillers strikes
turret emplacment

special character: Necrosius (CSM sorcerer, kinnda like typhus only he's worth taking)

special character: Zhufor (khornate termy lord who can take termy retinue that dont take a slot)

.................and breathe

ashc
20-07-2010, 22:28
Thanks mannimarco, that is incredibly useful. How much difference is there between how the Vraks 1 and 2 lists play?

Mannimarco
20-07-2010, 23:29
I wouldnt know, I havnt used the vraks 2 list.

I would imagine the vraks 1 list could be better with its ability to take 3 squads of alpha legion chosen (30 infiltrating marines) on top of a guard army although this would be pretty expensive.

The vraks lists are pretty small for what is basically a stripped out guard list: my vraks 3 list only has:

command squad with plasma gun and lascannon team

6 chemical mortars

5 renegade armoured fist squads

2 banewolves

9 plague ogryns


which is pretty small for a 1500 point army

ashc
21-07-2010, 10:42
well the smaller armies is fine by me, I have had a plague marine army in the past and so was looking for something different, hence why I wasn't really looking at the 3rd list. :)

Earthbeard
21-07-2010, 12:56
Vraks 2 includes Beastmen - what more do you want :P

All that aside, if you like the Khornate theme, 2 is for you, Nurgle theme for 3 and 1 is more undivided, so a more traditional LaTD if there is such a thing.

ashc
21-07-2010, 13:06
I'm interested in how different the two lists play; I can see they share a number of units and some things are different, but I was wondering how those differences effect the way the armies play on the tabletop.

Mannimarco
21-07-2010, 13:28
They dont really, those exalted champions are kinnda like the old aspiring champions so if you are looking to go more marine heavy I would take them, guard heavy take the command squads.

Most of the lists are the same so the main differences would come from the elite section so its the difference between a unit of chosen and a unit of khorne berserkers