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Gabacho Mk.II
20-07-2010, 17:38
When I first heard that WFB 8th edition was coming out, I was delighted. However, due to a number of rumours and a few personal worries (such as who was writing the rulebook, playtesting, etc.), I was certain that 8th edition was to become a joke and would finally destroy my love for the game.

Now, having read some of the rules, and having read a great deal of the feedback from the community, I will clearly say that I was wrong.




My sincere apologies to GW and to all those who took part in writing and playtesting 8th edition. You all have put together a very solid product.


-GMII

langolas
20-07-2010, 17:47
I'm glad you made this descision on your own as opposed to strictly from internet postings.

The next best thing is to actually put the rules to practice and go decimate your opponent ;)

Zaonite
20-07-2010, 18:19
I had my misgivings about 8th ed too.
But I held off judgement until I saw the new book. Fantasy still rocks!

MindSlave
20-07-2010, 18:36
Well said that man!
About time we see some proper praise amongst the whining and moaning...

The book looks good, although I have been out of the game for the last couple of years, and as such am just building my army back, so no games just yet.

maze ironheart
20-07-2010, 18:42
Well said that man!
About time we see some proper praise amongst the whining and moaning...

The book looks good, although I have been out of the game for the last couple of years, and as such am just building my army back, so no games just yet.

I Aggree it's good one thread that did not consist of whining and moaning.

Foxhound_808
20-07-2010, 18:48
I feel the same way. I was annoyed and worried about the changes, but after my first game of 8th yesterday it plays fine, and I'm sure it'll be even more fun/flavorful once we start adding in the new terrain pieces, trying out the new magic items, etc.

gogs78
20-07-2010, 18:53
My only grumble is new rules for woods and only because woodies are one of my armies!
Apart from that new edition looking good!

Formosa
20-07-2010, 18:53
yarp i r being to like... thank

Jetty Smurf
20-07-2010, 18:57
I am quite enjoying 8th so far. I haven't played my woodies just yet (kind of cringe at the thought of it, really) but my lizardmen are going strong. Percentages are a godsend, really. I love being able to try out many different units of things in the same army.

I actually played my first 2 games (didn't get to change my list between) with 6 skink chiefs on terradons. Crazy stuff! Hella fun! =)

Justicar Valius
20-07-2010, 19:19
I still don't like it but I'm 2 games in, I'm sure I'll come round once I adapat my army to be more competitive (40 Frenzied maruaders etc).

Kal Taron
20-07-2010, 19:33
I still don't like it and don't see myself using my Wood Elves any time soon.

Justicar Valius
20-07-2010, 19:43
Yeh I don't like how wood elves got nerfed so badly, so very, very badly.

Smiling Banshee
20-07-2010, 19:46
8th ed has totally rejuvinated the hobby in my area. Before 8th our local club had several different groups all playing different wargames. With the arrival of the new edition its seems as if theres a real buzz about the place and everyones getting armies or bringing out old ones. Its great!

peterburstrom
20-07-2010, 19:57
All you wood elf players out there (myself included):

I had my gripes about 8th and the woodies several times. But I just like them so bad. I think that we need to rethink our strategies from the bottom up, just as the Ogre Stronghold did in the Paradigm thread. The challenge is almost insurmountable, but that's just it; ALMOST insurmountable. We can do it (pun intended), and when we obliterate our opponents, the wins will be sooo sweet.

Remadia
20-07-2010, 20:07
I completely agree. GW really outdone themselves with the new release. The new rulebook is just amazing. Really exciting times!

Kal Taron
20-07-2010, 20:32
It's not difficult to rethink the WE army build and come up with something competitive. My problem is that I don't like the result. I don't like the looks of it and how it will play. So I'm reluctant to build (not buy!) the Treekin I'll need.

Ultimate Life Form
20-07-2010, 20:35
Good to hear there are some converts.

Remadia
20-07-2010, 20:36
Most are converts afaik.

GodlessM
20-07-2010, 21:17
I'm just waiting to see how long it'll be before some typical Whineseerite comes in grumbling about something stupid.

But good post Gabacho.

ASTINOFF
20-07-2010, 23:39
This is a nice thread! No whining and moaning, well, except for the last ones with WE players. I know is hard for them, but this make them take a new aproach in how to play with it.

Dungeon_Lawyer
20-07-2010, 23:52
When I first heard that WFB 8th edition was coming out, I was delighted. However, due to a number of rumours and a few personal worries (such as who was writing the rulebook, playtesting, etc.), I was certain that 8th edition was to become a joke and would finally destroy my love for the game.

Now, having read some of the rules, and having read a great deal of the feedback from the community, I will clearly say that I was wrong.




My sincere apologies to GW and to all those who took part in writing and playtesting 8th edition. You all have put together a very solid product.


-GMII
Just wait and play a little more---I have been coming to the exact opposite conclusion. TOS sucks, the magic pahse is overpowered, no VP for units broken at end of game or under 50% fail, Most games are blowouts decided by turn 3....Just play a little more let the "new car" smell wear off and youll see how uninspiring the new edition is.

GodlessM
21-07-2010, 00:30
Just wait and play a little more---I have been coming to the exact opposite conclusion. TOS sucks, the magic pahse is overpowered, no VP for units broken at end of game or under 50% fail, Most games are blowouts decided by turn 3....Just play a little more let the "new car" smell wear off and youll see how uninspiring the new edition is.

Sounds like a load of cheese and w(h)ine to me.

Darkgeneral357
21-07-2010, 01:06
Overall my group is enjoying it very much. Good job GW. It is a more fun version that I like as we usually pair our games with beers and scotch. If a game is a blow out by turn 3 we set em up and go again. And no more stand-offs wondering which one of us is just in the right position to charge. Ive won big, lost bigger, and had a few draws. All in all I like it.

Alltaken
21-07-2010, 01:30
8th Edition: Warhammer Fantasy Entuthiasm

I really like it, besides certain points and the huge blow at WE. But overall really excited about the hobby and my upcoming beatifull HE army, mi lizzies are gonna be green with envy

peterburstrom
21-07-2010, 05:26
This is a nice thread! No whining and moaning, well, except for the last ones with WE players. I know is hard for them, but this make them take a new aproach in how to play with it.

I was one of them whiny wood elves players a couple of days ago. The thing that I felt sucked most about the new rules was the fact that I chose to play WE because the sneaky way they were played, with skirmishers, baiting, trapping, flanking, and avoiding. And they did a hell of a job at it.

Now, this isn't possible anymore. However, I have fallen in love with the damn foresty types. I like them anyway. I refuse to give up on them just yet. Whatever it takes to make them playable under current circumstances, I will try it out. In a way, 8th is a boon, since the least usable units last edition is now probably the most usable. I wonder if that goes for the magic items as well?

Thank you Warhammer 8 for forcing me to rethink my army setups and strategies. I look forward to use the nerf bat as a weapon of mass destruction.

Aluinn
21-07-2010, 05:47
I don't know, the latest incarnation of Wood Elves was fatally flawed IMO in that they relied so heavily on the presence of woods; this is pretty odd when conceivably quite a few interesting FB tables could be set up with no woods on them at all. (I know they could place one, but still, one really wasn't enough.) I think they need to find a new niche in the rules, and switch to Lore of Life and maybe Beasts--or, I suppose, just a heavily-reworked Athel Loren Lore. I understand that they are *Wood* Elves and the fluff barely supports them ever fighting outside Athel Loren, but, well, maybe that needs to be looked at too, since it makes certain matchups seem implausible. That very nice Khemri-themed table in the 8th rulebook strikes me as a strong example of something that prompts lots of questions re. what they might be doing there and how they even made the trip in the first place.

I do think their next book will probably bring back some of the "guerilla warfare" themes, perhaps by making all of them very adept at fleeing and getting away, by being able to actually force enemy units within a certain range to try to charge them, more widespread use of the Sniper rule, etc. They can still play similarly, in theory, but it has to be outside the main rules for the most part now, and so requires a new army book.

I don't mean this is an excuse for the nerfery they got, but I still like them and they'll still be my next FB army if I decide to build a third, even if they don't have a new army book yet. Meanwhile, they still have their strong points--after all, shooting in general got better, and they do that fairly well, even at long range, if not exactly cheaply points-wise. A lot of Forest Spirit units still strike me as pretty efficient in close combat, particularly Dryads.

To stay on topic, on the general subject, I agree and like 8th pretty well :).

Lord Solar Plexus
21-07-2010, 06:01
Ach, Gabacho, I wouldn't worry about that. That's the past, no-one's going to hold you accountable or care whether you were sceptical.

Deep down, everyone of us was a little sceptical or even outright astonished at times when some rumour turned out to be true or false. I know I was.

damiengore
21-07-2010, 06:08
Hated 7th edition, went to a doubles WFB tourney with double VC, Van hals spam and Death star later= WIN. Boring, boring and the EXACT same builds on several armies and on several levels. Loved the idea but the game blew chunks. It took zero skill and was dead boring and pretty predictable.
I also won best overall with Orcs and Gobbos in that edition but it was still craps as everyone I played used the same mix of ItP, Unbreakable, skirmisher, flyers, Hydras, RBT's crap, bleah, I was the only one who used massed blocks of infantry (death stars excluded).

Love 8th edition, now it's FUN, now it's more random and crazy and radical and entertaining things happen all the time! So many minor changes put into effect (like regeneration cancel out in a phase if you take flame damage!) that it's hard to absorb them all, but they are all fun and we are actually LAUGHING while playing the game again!!!

Magic is awesome and funny as wizards can actually powerfully influence the game with ONE spell (as oppossed to SPAM) but also risk dying nastilly and maybe incinerating their bunkers as well! Shooting can be crazy destructive, if you can just hit! Combat is BRUTAL and bloody (orc horde having 36 attacks?!?!!?!? Yes please! lol).

Oh and I can actually use my Ogres and not feel like I'm fighting with both hands tied behind my back and inserted in my ****!

Now if myself and my other fantasy player can only convince more of our 40K group to take it up!

Campbell1988
21-07-2010, 06:47
I was in the same boat. Highly skeptical, very worried, even outright angry from the rumours. But now...I am very confident. Still annoyed at some changes but I have greatly enjoyed it so far and I stand corrected.

Dungeon_Lawyer
21-07-2010, 10:51
And no more stand-offs wondering which one of us is just in the right position to charge. .

LOL

Just wait until one of you figures out that all you have to is pre-measure an enemy units charge distance and add 1.5" and the mexican standoffs will be back in full effect-such a tactic drops an oppnents sucess rate for pulling off a charge to -33% . In a few months time high movment infantry based armies will be dominating as more gamers figure this out and everyone will harp on 8th and this unseemly design flaw.

but enjoy the new car smell while it lasts this edition will grow stale real soon

GodlessM
21-07-2010, 11:17
Just wait until one of you figures out that all you have to is pre-measure an enemy units charge distance and add 1.5" and the mexican standoffs will be back in full effect-such a tactic drops an oppnents sucess rate for pulling off a charge to -33% . In a few months time high movment infantry based armies will be dominating as more gamers figure this out and everyone will harp on 8th and this unseemly design flaw.


Love how you put this as if it was a genius idea you came up with when in fact everyone is aware of it. Furthermore, there will be no standoffs for charges as apart from lances, if two units are ready to face off it doesn't matter so much anymore who gets the charge.

Arbas
21-07-2010, 11:40
LOL

Just wait until one of you figures out that all you have to is pre-measure an enemy units charge distance and add 1.5" and the mexican standoffs will be back in full effect-such a tactic drops an oppnents sucess rate for pulling off a charge to -33% . In a few months time high movment infantry based armies will be dominating as more gamers figure this out and everyone will harp on 8th and this unseemly design flaw.

but enjoy the new car smell while it lasts this edition will grow stale real soon

It must be SO much fun to play against you :)

The SkaerKrow
21-07-2010, 12:32
Now having multiple games of 8th Edition under my belt, I find that my low opinion of the new rules has been completely vindicated. It's Warhammer for people that were bad at Warhammer. I don't fault GW for wanting to put out an accessible game, but it's a real shame to see what had been a good game dumbed down to this level.

Arbas
21-07-2010, 12:59
Bit of a sweeping statement - any specifics?

Freakiq
21-07-2010, 13:01
Now having multiple games of 8th Edition under my belt, I find that my low opinion of the new rules has been completely vindicated. It's Warhammer for people that were bad at Warhammer. I don't fault GW for wanting to put out an accessible game, but it's a real shame to see what had been a good game dumbed down to this level.

Keep playing 7th edition then.

If the game is as bad as you say there will be no shortage of player going back to 7th edition.

willowdark
21-07-2010, 13:04
I never understood this idea of a "standoff." My 7th ed experience doesn't support this as a regular aspect of 7th ed play. Generally speaking, If I played well I could impose my units on the enemy and break them, and if my opponent played better I'd get swarmed and I'd break.

Other than WE who were intentionally trying to avoid me, I never experienced a "standoff" in 7th ed. I think this is just another example of uninspired players playing uninspired games.

Remadia
21-07-2010, 13:36
Now having multiple games of 8th Edition under my belt, I find that my low opinion of the new rules has been completely vindicated. It's Warhammer for people that were bad at Warhammer. I don't fault GW for wanting to put out an accessible game, but it's a real shame to see what had been a good game dumbed down to this level.

I bet you still play W40k second edition don't you lol.

Arbas
21-07-2010, 14:54
2nd edition 40k was great (with a few house rules :)) but given the reception for 5th I've invested in an AoBR box (it's a "present" for my son, honest :)) unless you're a tournament player new rulesets don't mean a thing - you like 7th? play 7th or 3rd or whatever floats your boat - it's a hobby, if it ain't fun don't do it, don't like some aspect of 8th? change it it's easy peasy and only takes a little effort ....

TheKingInYellow
21-07-2010, 15:31
I've been playing off and on since 5th edition, and 8th has completely brought me back into the fold.

I love magic now, unit killing spells are well balanced against the randomness of the magic phase, the brutality of the miscasts and the limitations on power generation.

Melee is brutal and cheap models can actually be a threat now if you make large enough units. Elites still rule in hand-to-hand, but they can no longer do so with impunity. Random charge ranges and free charge wheels have added an element of chance where it was once all about arguing if your wheel was 3 1/4" or 3 1/2".

Shooting still seems underpowered to me, that's my only concern. A bunch of S3 bows doesn't do jack against most units.

I played about five games of 7e in the last year. Since 8e hit, I've played three games *this week*, and my friends and I are chomping at the bit for more. Sure we are still learning, so there is a new-car smell to it, but why is that a bad thing? That happened with 7th, and 6th, and 5th as well.

Gabacho Mk.II
21-07-2010, 18:34
I honestly posted this thread in order to get some of my initial 'worries' off my chest, so to speak. If you had asked me as to what 8th edition will look like over 3 months ago, I would have laughed and cynically said that 8th edition will kill off the hobby for me and a great deal of my gaming friends.

However, the reverse has happened.

The odds... :p






Keep playing 7th edition then.

If the game is as bad as you say there will be no shortage of player going back to 7th edition.



Very well said.

damiengore
22-07-2010, 12:12
Who gets the charge is not nearly as important now that combat is I based, stand offs? Why would you do that, and how would u manage it only being able to back off at half rate?

Strange statement, and I've seen ogres roll double 6's for an 18" charge, so your notion is just plain moronic.


LOL

Just wait until one of you figures out that all you have to is pre-measure an enemy units charge distance and add 1.5" and the mexican standoffs will be back in full effect-such a tactic drops an oppnents sucess rate for pulling off a charge to -33% . In a few months time high movment infantry based armies will be dominating as more gamers figure this out and everyone will harp on 8th and this unseemly design flaw.

but enjoy the new car smell while it lasts this edition will grow stale real soon

Ultimate Life Form
22-07-2010, 12:13
From what I've heard Warhammer doesn't smell of new cars, but rather... other odors, depending on the players in question.

damiengore
22-07-2010, 14:26
Yes and 7th edition was about all the genius' that could pull an army list off the internet and hit the WIN button. Believe me I went to multiple tourney's in 7th (especially in the last year before 8th) and you could make a list of armies you'd see at a tournament and it would be very short and they would almost all be indentical!

Which approach is dumber? Knowing the odds and willing to risk it or knowing how to estimate ranges? Willing to make variant lists and knowing how to maximize the abilities of you units OR having the exact carbon copy of everyone elses army?

Yes, GW Dumbed WFB down from "For elite idiots who think they are genius' " to "general public who want to have a fun game". THANK GAWD!



Now having multiple games of 8th Edition under my belt, I find that my low opinion of the new rules has been completely vindicated. It's Warhammer for people that were bad at Warhammer. I don't fault GW for wanting to put out an accessible game, but it's a real shame to see what had been a good game dumbed down to this level.

Razhem
22-07-2010, 14:58
I give it 6 months.

Gabacho Mk.II
22-07-2010, 21:35
I give it 6 months.



I hope that you are wrong.

WFB is, for me, more than just a release of the pressures from work and school. I value my gaming friends and the time that I have spent playing, painting my armies and all other associated aspects in this hobby. I dont wish to go back to broken armies and ********* up rules.