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Malorian
22-07-2010, 15:41
So yesterday I played two games with my night goblin horde:

-150 night goblins with banner, musician, nets (15 wide and 10 deep)
-9 cheap characters with great weapons


In the first game my opponent was so freaked out that after he didn't do enough damage in the first turn be just gave up.


In the second game I took a beating, that dwellers beneath spell (crazy lore of life spell) killed 78 in the first turn and then salamanders where constantly smashing them.

Even so, after a swift reform, they still hit his lines, broke two large units at once, and once again my opponent gave up.


Psychological effects aside, the fact that this horde could take such a terrible beating and then not only tear open the opponent's center but also not give my opponent ANY VPs made me realize just how right I was about these super hordes.


In 8th size does matter, and I fear that in time this 150 model monster of a unit will pale in comparision to some larger hordes we could see.

Thoughts?

sephiroth87
22-07-2010, 15:43
My thoughts: I plan on trying this unit out. It would certainly be funny to block the sun out with goblin arrows. :D

shelfunit.
22-07-2010, 15:48
I am itching to fight against my first gigantic horde unit - I think it will be a fun challenge trying to overcome it :D

Urgat
22-07-2010, 15:51
So yesterday I played two games with my night goblin horde:

-150 night goblins with banner, musician, nets (15 wide and 10 deep)
-9 cheap characters with great weapons
[...]
Thoughts?

Thoughts: you make it sound like it's you whole army lol. Give us the whole list :p

Odin
22-07-2010, 15:58
My thoughts: I plan on trying this unit out. It would certainly be funny to block the sun out with goblin arrows. :D

Hell yeah. That unit could put out 90 shots a turn. They might only be S3 but that's still enough to ruin anyone's day.

Malorian
22-07-2010, 15:59
Give us the whole list :p

Black orc warboss w/ great axe, wizard hat
Lvl 4 night goblin great shaman w/ staff of sneaky stealing
Night goblin warboss w/ great weapon, 2+ armor, reroll armor saves
Night goblin warboss w/ great weapon, MR 3, terror

Savage orc big boss w/ great weapon
Savage orc big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss bsb
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon, madcap mushrooms
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon

150 night goblins w/ nets, banner, 3 fanatics
50 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
50 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
20 night goblins w/ bows, banner *bunker*

Orc chariot
Orc chariot
Wolf chariot
Wolf chariot
2 chukkas
2 chukkas

Doom diver

Total: 2992 (guess I could have added 2 more goblins but I was lazy)


On a seperate note, the wizard hat was a lot of fun and gave me access to some of the great spells in the BRB (even if they were random).

Col. Dash
22-07-2010, 16:06
Heheh, add in the Banner which gives poisoned attacks and watch the fun. Wow, thats just crazy, talk about taking forever to paint lol. Of course one failed psych test and they are boned.

Rincewind
22-07-2010, 16:15
I'd love to see the movement tray you used for that. :D

Baboon
22-07-2010, 16:16
I just looked up the cost for this bad boy.. once i got to £450 i gave up and still had more to add to it.

I know you can do it cheaper but hell thats one big fee to pay for a fun game.

Malorian
22-07-2010, 16:17
Of course one failed psych test and they are boned.

With the general and the BSB reroll that isn't likely (famous last words I know).



I just looked up the cost for this bad boy.. once i got to £450 i gave up and still had more to add to it.

I know you can do it cheaper but hell thats one big fee to pay for a fun game.

Look up Battle for Skull pass ;)



I'd love to see the movement tray you used for that. :D

I used 6 different trays. 3 in the front that were 5X6, and 3 in the back that were 5X4. Then when I added the characters I haqd some trailing behind.

Other people in the group are starting to make trays for their hordes though. Just yesterday I saw one made for a unit of ~50 marauders :eek:

Odin
22-07-2010, 16:19
Black orc warboss w/ great axe, wizard hat
Lvl 4 night goblin great shaman w/ staff of sneaky stealing
Night goblin warboss w/ great weapon, 2+ armor, reroll armor saves
Night goblin warboss w/ great weapon, MR 3, terror

Savage orc big boss w/ great weapon
Savage orc big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss bsb
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon, madcap mushrooms
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon

150 night goblins w/ nets, banner, 3 fanatics
50 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
50 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
20 night goblins w/ bows, banner *bunker*

Orc chariot
Orc chariot
Wolf chariot
Wolf chariot
2 chukkas
2 chukkas

Doom diver

Total: 2992 (guess I could have added 2 more goblins but I was lazy)


On a seperate note, the wizard hat was a lot of fun and gave me access to some of the great spells in the BRB (even if they were random).

It all depends what your opponent is expecting I guess, but some people might consider the hero-spamming a bit of a twattish thing to do. I'm quite enjoying this period of experimental armies - they're good fun when played with the right attitude. Personally I'd love it, because I'd just send in my exalted with the Sword of Anti-Heroes, giving him a fairly respectable 14 attacks at S10! If the bosses accept his challenges he'll be rolling on the Eye of the Gods table every turn, and if they don't he'll just carve them up anyway.

Malorian
22-07-2010, 16:21
It all depends what your opponent is expecting I guess, but some people might consider the hero-spamming a bit of a twattish thing to do. I'm quite enjoying this period of experimental armies. Personally I'd love it, because I'd just send in my exalted with the Sword of Anti-Heroes, giving him a fairly respectable 14 attacks at S10!

Just make sure you have another character to make a challenge or else I'll just let you kill one 34 point hero and then go ahead to beat, break, and run down the whole unit :evilgrin:

But yeah, that sword is perfect against units like this, however I don't think many will take it as only orcs and goblins can really cash in on the character spam.


Edit: on another note, a person brought enough minotaurs yesterday that he could make a horde with them.

Now that would have been a cool battle :D

Rincewind
22-07-2010, 16:26
It all depends what your opponent is expecting I guess, but some people might consider the hero-spamming a bit of a twattish thing to do. I'm quite enjoying this period of experimental armies. Personally I'd love it, because I'd just send in my exalted with the Sword of Anti-Heroes, giving him a fairly respectable 14 attacks at S10!

Yeah, you can kill 10 or so normal gobbos or one hero with your sword and then get ripped to shreds by the front rank. :D

davidvonhauser
22-07-2010, 16:26
heheheheh... just counted my n.goblins. 150 exactly.

The_Lemon
22-07-2010, 16:27
One guy at my flgs has created a O&G list with 215 orc archers in a single unit, so it covers the whole length of the battlefield, behind them all their warmachines, not played with it yet, but sure seems interesting.

Kugruk
22-07-2010, 16:27
It all depends what your opponent is expecting I guess, but some people might consider the hero-spamming a bit of a twattish thing to do. I'm quite enjoying this period of experimental armies - they're good fun when played with the right attitude. Personally I'd love it, because I'd just send in my exalted with the Sword of Anti-Heroes, giving him a fairly respectable 14 attacks at S10! If the bosses accept his challenges he'll be rolling on the Eye of the Gods table every turn, and if they don't he'll just carve them up anyway.

Only 1 challenge per combat

Malorian
22-07-2010, 16:28
Another thing that could have been funny is in the first game there was a mysterious forest he was hidding behind... I thought about going through it but in the end decided to swing around it with the 150 while the smaller 50 horde when through...

Yeah... it was a poisonous thicket :p

Odin
22-07-2010, 16:28
Just make sure you have another character to make a challenge or else I'll just let you kill one 34 point hero and then go ahead to beat, break, and run down the whole unit :evilgrin:

But yeah, that sword is perfect against units like this, however I don't think many will take it as only orcs and goblins can really cash in on the character spam.

Skaven and Empire can do a reasonable amount of character-spamming as well. 50 points for an Empire captain - just add full plate and a halberd/GW/shield.

Though you only need one enemy character in base contact to make it worth its points - 30 points for +1S and +1A. It's ideal for my exalted BSB because he's perfectly capable of dealing with enemy troops - it's enemy characters that are his achilles heel.

I put him in a Marauder Horde, which because of its width does tend to attract more than one enemy unit, increasing the number of enemy characters I'm likely to face.

Sorry, a bit off topic!

Malorian
22-07-2010, 16:29
One guy at my flgs has created a O&G list with 215 orc archers in a single unit, so it covers the whole length of the battlefield, behind them all their warmachines, not played with it yet, but sure seems interesting.

There you go, the Brave 150 have been bested already :D

Odin
22-07-2010, 16:29
Only 1 challenge per combat

Yes...? Sorry, not sure I get your point.

Edit: hang on, do you mean if I challenge and win, I can't challenge again until after that combat has ended? Surely I can still challenge again the next turn?

Odin
22-07-2010, 16:34
Yeah, you can kill 10 or so normal gobbos or one hero with your sword and then get ripped to shreds by the front rank. :D

Well, presumably he'll have to attack whoever is in base contact, which could well include 3 big bosses.

I might have to try this combat out at some stage. The Khorne marauder horde would also take out a fair few goblins/ bosses, but at T3 with no armour they will take a battering from the gobbos as well. It would be carnage.

Petey
22-07-2010, 16:40
@ Odin I think what he means is that you can only challenge once per combat round, so if he refuses, all you get is to put one hero in the back, not really all that game breaking. If he accepts and you kill him, he's only lost one hero of the 9 he has. If you don't kill each other the challenge continues and all those other heroes are still doing damage to your front line.

Kugruk
22-07-2010, 16:43
check pg102. Only one challenge can be issued per combat, not per turn, not per round. Per combat.

Odin
22-07-2010, 16:43
@ Odin I think what he means is that you can only challenge once per combat round, so if he refuses, all you get is to put one hero in the back, not really all that game breaking. If he accepts and you kill him, he's only lost one hero of the 9 he has. If you don't kill each other the challenge continues and all those other heroes are still doing damage to your front line.

True, though I reckon my khornate marauders with gw's should kill off pretty much all the bigbosses in the first round of combat anyway.

Rincewind
22-07-2010, 16:43
Your champion can only attack ONE of the heroes or the unit. His attacks don't carry over to the other heroes unless they are in base to base contact with HIM. So at most you can allocate 3-4 attacks at 3 big bosses each.... after which the rank & file will pulverize him or cause his unit to run away due to combat resolution. :D

I'm gonna try a smaller, 100 gobbo unit (10x10) with spears, 5 great weapon characters and the Spider Banner for poisoned attacks. Still leaves plenty of room for other stuff.

Odin
22-07-2010, 16:44
check pg102. Only one challenge can be issued per combat, not per turn, not per round. Per combat.

Wow, if correct that's a big change which I completely failed to spot! Will read when I get home.


Your champion can only attack ONE of the heroes or the unit. His attacks don't carry over to the other heroes.


Of course not, but I should be in base contact with 2-3 of the bosses, so if they refuse the challenge I just need to allocate about 4 attacks to each of them to be pretty certain of killing them, any spare attacks going on the unit.

Kugruk
22-07-2010, 16:48
Wow, if correct that's a big change which I completely failed to spot! Will read when I get home.


I thought the same thing. I always thought challenges were fun :(.

Sygerrik
22-07-2010, 16:58
Problems: The spell Pandaemonium + Hellcannons; the spell (as mentioned) Dwellers Below; the spell Final Transmutation; the spell The Withering (or Enfeebling Foe).

Still, that is one terrifying unit. I would pretty much target it with everything I had, then try to combo-charge it with two large units. I fear it wouldn't be enough, but I'd have to try.

explorator
22-07-2010, 16:58
check pg102. Only one challenge can be issued per combat, not per turn, not per round. Per combat.

pg. 103 "Further challenges cannot be issued in that combat until the existing challenge has been resolved."

Seems like this indicates that more than one challenge can be issued per combat.

150 Night goblins would be fun to face, but it is not always going to win the game obviously. Targeting all those Heroes in the front rank would be my first move once engaged. I think we are going to need some more dice if we are having to make 150 save rolls. :)

Odin
22-07-2010, 17:00
pg. 103 "Further challenges cannot be issued in that combat until the existing challenge has been resolved."

Seems like this indicates that more than one challenge can be issued per combat.

150 Night goblins would be fun to face, but it is not always going to win the game obviously. Targeting all those Heroes in the front rank would be my first move once engaged. I think we are going to need some more dice if we are having to make 150 save rolls. :)

I thought so.

There's been a lot of confusion casued by people reading the first sentence of a rule and scanning over the rest.

theorox
22-07-2010, 17:13
Wow, that is SCARY! :D

I'll...i would'nt...

*Hides in bathtub*

Kugruk
22-07-2010, 17:17
I thought so.

There's been a lot of confusion casued by people reading the first sentence of a rule and scanning over the rest.

The more I read this book. The more I hate it. I read over the rules, and it appears you were right to begin with.

Malorian
22-07-2010, 17:18
I'm also getting another battle for skull pass box so I might be able to do a 200 model unit in the future ;)

Might just use a cooking sheet as a movement tray :D

Von Wibble
22-07-2010, 17:28
I have to say its nice to see a thread that makes Orcs and Goblins look powerful. Nice one :)

I'm just glad spells like dwellers below and purple sun exist at this point...

mrtn
22-07-2010, 18:27
The more I read this book. The more I hate it. I read over the rules, and it appears you were right to begin with.

I think you were right, but the book implies that you're not. :)

Gaargod
22-07-2010, 19:01
Dweller's Below the unit until it stops being funny. Which might take a while actually...
Considering it snipes all your characters as well, 1/3 of your big bosses will disappear first time it goes off!


Sorry Malorian, but i just can't see that unit actually being an issue. That is of course, unless you play with the Wyrding Well (played a mere 48 goblins + snarnsik + lv2 mage - at 1k admittedly - with that recently. He rolled unbreakable and stupidity. Took me forever to kill them all...)

Malorian
22-07-2010, 19:45
I like how some people assume they will have exactly the right spell for this unit.

Keep in mind that you pick your lore when you make the list (so you won't know it's coming) and then in most cases you need to roll for it too.

VoodooJanus
22-07-2010, 19:45
So yesterday I played two games with my night goblin horde:

-150 night goblins with banner, musician, nets (15 wide and 10 deep)
-9 cheap characters with great weapons


In the first game my opponent was so freaked out that after he didn't do enough damage in the first turn be just gave up.


In the second game I took a beating, that dwellers beneath spell (crazy lore of life spell) killed 78 in the first turn and then salamanders where constantly smashing them.

Even so, after a swift reform, they still hit his lines, broke two large units at once, and once again my opponent gave up.


Psychological effects aside, the fact that this horde could take such a terrible beating and then not only tear open the opponent's center but also not give my opponent ANY VPs made me realize just how right I was about these super hordes.


In 8th size does matter, and I fear that in time this 150 model monster of a unit will pale in comparision to some larger hordes we could see.

Thoughts?

I think that a lot of that power comes from the O+G ability to take cheap characters, I mean I tried out a huge horde of Eternal Guard, and while it was really cool, I didn't have the killing power to take out some of those harder units (Saurus or WoC.)

Mind you, I had a ton of fun when I got to use 1/2 of my Gnoblar horde in the form of 2 blocks of 15x10. They scared the pants off of my opponent. They would have died if I ever let the life 'super-spell' get off, but even so, they did really well. I ran down a HPA with gnoblars! How awesome is that!

I should also tell you that the white-dwarf gnoblar horde list is quite a bit more potent this edition. The few games I've had with it... boy oh boy do I like the horde rules.

Malorian
22-07-2010, 19:55
I think that a lot of that power comes from the O+G ability to take cheap characters, I mean I tried out a huge horde of Eternal Guard, and while it was really cool, I didn't have the killing power to take out some of those harder units (Saurus or WoC.).

One supports the other.

The horde gave the characters a massive meat shield to work from, and the characters gave the horde punch.

A horde that size should never be completely wiped out, but if the cheap characters are killed then hopefully they earned their points back before they did and then the horde will just hold the opponent up for the entire game.

Urgat
22-07-2010, 20:07
I like how some people assume they will have exactly the right spell for this unit.

I like how people forget that spells can be dispelled :p (especially with orcs and gobs :p)

Angelust
22-07-2010, 20:21
Hm, sounds like a nasty and effective horde.

Are you worried at all about leadership droppers coupled with panic tests? i.e. if you get some Slaaneshi sorcerer with some kind of cumulative -3 to your leadership...that could be pretty easy to break, even with a BSB reroll.


I get the feeling that every army these days needs some way to assassinate the BSB. Either a sniping spell like Lore of Death or buboes, an extremely mobile and expendable combat hero, or...something. It seems like it may be the only way to tear down huge cheap hordes that skaven/NG/OK are likely to put out there.

Any thoughts? (Sorry to hijack your triumph thread into a how-to-kill-your-unit thread) haha.

Anvilbrow
22-07-2010, 20:28
Cool, I thought my NG horde last night was big. I used 95 with Skarsnik, shaman, BSB, and two big bosses in it. Sadly, I played against three trebuchets who all hit the first turn and my mighty horde of 105 was reduced to 53...

In the end, I was outmaneuvered and flanked by Grail Knights and lost combat with my horde by 9 and in spite of still being steadfast, broke and was run down. 1500 VPs to my opponent in the bottom of turn 6:cries:

On the subject of large units, in a 4th edition siege, a friend of mine ran a unit of 500 night Goblins deployed 100x5, with the Bad Moon Banner (ASF equivalent in those days) and half a dozen GW-armed heroes. He elected not to defend the walls of his castle at all, and deployed them in the courtyard, which stretched the length of the table. Sadly a Bloodthirster flew over, charged the gobbos and broke the entire unit, running them all down...

I'm considering running my Squig Herds in horde formation next time I play. 40 S5 attacks anyone??? (assuming my enemy is wide enough)

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
22-07-2010, 20:50
And I tought my unit from 80 I was working on was big:p. But I will field 80 in 2250. But I find you have to play a full gobbo army in 8th.

Cheers,
G

Thanatos_elNyx
22-07-2010, 21:35
Personally I'd love it, because I'd just send in my exalted with the Sword of Anti-Heroes, giving him a fairly respectable 14 attacks at S10!.

Isn't there an upper limit of 10 attacks in the BRB?

Lorcryst
22-07-2010, 22:01
150 gobboes ... that's more than I have in my collection, dagnabit !

I was thinking, for a pure Night Goblin army, of going with one unit of 88 + BSB + Lord(General), a couple of units of 25, and a couple of units of archers, 21 strong ... all that based on what I actually own.


Looks like I was on the right path, but I need to buy more Night Goblins !

Urgat
22-07-2010, 22:13
150 gobboes ... that's more than I have in my collection, dagnabit !

Well, I don't want to count how many night goblins I have. I could get some incredibly silly idea...

Malorian
22-07-2010, 22:13
Well, I don't want to count how many night goblins I have. I could get some incredibly silly idea...

Do it Urgat!

I want to see a 500 model goblin horde!!! :evilgrin:

Paraelix
22-07-2010, 22:25
That unit is just asking for Doom and Darkness followed by a Panic! test. Being bigger just means you're closer to leaving the table.

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
22-07-2010, 22:38
Do it Urgat!

I want to see a 500 model goblin horde!!! :evilgrin:

If I have the time, I will place my gobbos together and take a pic.

Cheers,
G

Rafi
22-07-2010, 23:30
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were to give your BSB the Spider Banner (unit gets Poison attacks) all of your characters in that unit with non-magical weapons would get Poisoned attacks, correct?

Rincewind
22-07-2010, 23:36
Yes. 30 poisoned great weapon attacks + poisoned spear attacks + poisoned support attacks - ze lol.

Rafi
23-07-2010, 00:13
Well, I might give them 2x hand weapons instead of the great weapons then. ;)
I4 ain't too shabby either.

Lordsaradain
23-07-2010, 01:06
Played 2 games today with 180 goblins (split into 3 units) and I won them both, pretty much crushing victories. The fact that my opponent played chaos dwarves makes my victories less impressive I guess...

Walls
23-07-2010, 01:55
Eh...

Taking 200 goblins? Anyone doing it isn't doing it for fun (and by fun, I mean mutal fun). Anyone taking it KNOWS it is just going to crush people. If I had been your opponent and had to concede in turn 1 or 2, I would never play you again. Hell, just reading this I would never play you. Being out to win and not just win but DESTROY is only fun for the destroyer. The list is pretty douchenozzle, spamming a million characters. Does ANYONE even care in the least about fluff or story or the actual game behind the dice anymore? I am VERY happy I play where I play. Anyone playing in this manner would never get a game again.

Rincewind
23-07-2010, 02:04
Goblins are a Horde race. This is exactly the way they are meant to be played, endless waves of cheap infantry instead of the silly 500 point lords and monsters the other races have.

Trains_Get_Robbed
23-07-2010, 02:20
How is this broken? ITS SO FAR FROM IT. Malorian and anyone else for that matter is only gone to have a 1-3 combat blocks, smaller and of similar or less killing power. Hit it in the flank(s) and rear at the same time as that unit will be super unwidely, shoot and magic the other units leaving it unsupported. It can be GAME BREAKING, if you don't know what your doing.

davidvonhauser
23-07-2010, 02:30
Yeah settle down Walls pretty sure the OP was trying it out for both fluff and fun...

Spinocus
23-07-2010, 03:00
Heh, nice Gobbo Deathstar there. Pity you didn't take any pics of it in battle.

The Dweller's Below is bad news but Plague gets the job done for a little more than half the cost (the 24" upgraded version of TDB anyway). Yeah, I know you can't rely on getting the exact spell you want but if you've got a lvl 4 to play with then there's a very good chance you'll roll the same number more than once when rolling for his spells. Then it becomes a simple matter of picking and choosing the right tools for the job. And Plague is practically guaranteed if a Skaven player has a Seer and a Plague Priest in his list. If I knew I was facing a horde like that I wouldn't think twice about taking a Power Scroll and force feeding my Seer Warpstone tokens so he could chuck 6 power dice at the Plague spell every turn until the horde becomes more manageable. Hell, Wither followed by an IF Plague = More Better Fun = Giant Pile 'O Plagued Green! :evilgrin:

Anyway I think it would be fun to face that horde, fun in that it would force me to come up with many sadistic ways of trying to smash it to green gooey bits... :angel:

Walls
23-07-2010, 03:03
There is not really anything fluffy about a million characters though. That's my point.


And yeah, it's not broken or anything. It can quite easily be destroyed. Pick out the general and BSB, kill them, the rest loses fairly quick. The point is Malorians ___ wagging was about how he beat guys in 1 or 2 rounds. It's not the list, it's the intent.

You play this game WITH someone, not against them. The most lost point in the whole gaming hobby.

Lilike
23-07-2010, 03:14
I love the idea of 150 NG in one massive deathstar! Yes it will be hard to beat this type of list but at least it will be fun to play against it since it is going to be a messy game! And as some people has already suggested, if you can assasinate the general and BSB the unit will be fairly easy to beat if you can get it on the flank. Also did I say I have been looking forward to getting beaten by an huge unit of night goblins?! 7:th edition is finally dead and buried, I like the new flavour of cheese :D

Spinocus
23-07-2010, 03:26
Yeah, it's not the most sporting thing in the world but so long as he didn't gloat or act like an ass during those matches then I don't see the harm in it. Maybe the next time he could provide a bit of warning before hand. You know, a devious chuckle and lots of shifty eye movement before actually placing the horde onto the table...

Anyway Malorian's experiment only shows how unbelievably stupid GW was to do away with granting half VP points for below 50% in a rule set that encourages players to field ridiculous deathstars. Sure, house rules can address this issue but it may become a sore point at clubs & tournaments where you're playing strangers or loose acquaintances.

Stuffburger
23-07-2010, 03:51
Black orc warboss w/ great axe, wizard hat
Lvl 4 night goblin great shaman w/ staff of sneaky stealing
Night goblin warboss w/ great weapon, 2+ armor, reroll armor saves
Night goblin warboss w/ great weapon, MR 3, terror

Savage orc big boss w/ great weapon
Savage orc big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss bsb
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon, madcap mushrooms
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon

150 night goblins w/ nets, banner, 3 fanatics
50 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
50 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
20 night goblins w/ bows, banner *bunker*

Orc chariot
Orc chariot
Wolf chariot
Wolf chariot
2 chukkas
2 chukkas

Doom diver

Total: 2992 (guess I could have added 2 more goblins but I was lazy)


On a separate note, the wizard hat was a lot of fun and gave me access to some of the great spells in the BRB (even if they were random).

Please don't take this personally but I really hope lists like this aren't a sign of what games will look like once people get used to 8th ed. 4 ranked up units and some supporting machines sounds like something I would expect to see in a 1k game last edition. I may be in the minority on this one but playing roughly the same game with 3 times as many models on the table has no appeal for me.

Urgat
23-07-2010, 04:36
Played 2 games today with 180 goblins (split into 3 units) and I won them both, pretty much crushing victories. The fact that my opponent played chaos dwarves makes my victories less impressive I guess...

Why? Their ravening horde list seems pretty nasty in 8th, I find.


Eh...

Taking 200 goblins? Anyone doing it isn't doing it for fun (and by fun, I mean mutal fun). Anyone taking it KNOWS it is just going to crush people. If I had been your opponent and had to concede in turn 1 or 2, I would never play you again. Hell, just reading this I would never play you. Being out to win and not just win but DESTROY is only fun for the destroyer. The list is pretty douchenozzle, spamming a million characters. Does ANYONE even care in the least about fluff or story or the actual game behind the dice anymore? I am VERY happy I play where I play. Anyone playing in this manner would never get a game again.

As much as I don't approve the rest of the list much (there's orcs :p ), I got to admit that a 100+ unit of night gobs IS fluffy. Just look at every single pic featuring night goblin armies: it's always, always, one gigantic tide that reaches up to the horizon. Always.


There is not really anything fluffy about a million characters though. That's my point.

And, well, I'm afraid there is. You only need read how waaaghs are formed. They're either tribes beaten in submission, or joining willingly. All those tribes do have big or even warbosses. The greenskin fluff is a cheating fluff, it can justify pretty much everything.

Well, I don't approve, again, to be honest, but it does make me smile. Being a goblin player, I find it strangely satisfying to be limited to 4 goblin bosses versus 4 vampires or chaos warrior characters or the likes, which I've always found quite unfair, to say the least :p I'm sure all those gobs in malorian's list cost less than the 4th ed character selection of my vampire opponent in a 2000 points army >>

That being said, I do think this kind of unit should be kept for night goblin themed armies, but that's only my view of the game.

zuriel45
23-07-2010, 04:41
The way i'm taking this entire thing is that malorian put out an unexpectadly large 150 model unit. Hell if that hit the table in front of me i'd be freaking out too. 150 models? honestly, half its power comes from how completely unexpected it is and how it will psycologically effect people. Malorian's opponent gave up, forfiet, didn't dig in and try to beat it. Who gives up on turn 1? honestly, there are 5 turns of game left, how can you believe in the first turn you're completely done for? And the next game he gave up after it hit his lines (half depeleted). These were (i think) his first two games, and jumping from 7th with its realativly small units to a massive 150 unit and a whole bunch of new rules is going to throw anyone off. Everyone here has given out ideas on how to deal with the 150 gobos. and i bet anyone with experiance with 8th would find some way to take it down, it isn't gamebreaking, it isn't going to ruin the game for the opponent, it actually sounds like fun, a challenge to my skills to beat it. but thats me.

Walls, you come across as condemning anyone that plays with any intent to win. You seem to believe this game is all about the game (grrr, i lost the game), and while i agree with you, this is a two person game, there still has to be some drive to win. Some people are more competative than others.

So far i've managed to identify 3 groups, the first two are fairly simple, those who believe that the game is all fun and anything that can win more than 50% of the time is completely unfair, and those who believe that using anything that isn't the best is just plain stupid. The third camp is (hopefully) where i sit, playing with half fluffy fun armies and half competative armies, attempting to win every game, but not at the expense of your opponent.

Honestly the two extremes need to relax a bit. everyone has their own playstyle, if you aren't competative don't play competative people, if you're super competative and know someone is playing for fun don't play them, but for the sake of this communities sanity would people please stop condemning everyone else.

Lord Dan
23-07-2010, 05:42
I have to know...do you have one massive movement tray for that unit?

Gorak
23-07-2010, 06:35
too funny, I can think of a million way to kill this unit and hell....have a great time doing it. I think once the shock and awe factor wears off your oppents will learn how to deal with it. Lizardmen should be able to dwellers bellow it onnce a turn for example.

Rogzor87
23-07-2010, 07:03
I can think of tons of ways with my armies to kill it. But it also looks like a ton of fun to play with and against. I been working on an O&G "Night goblin" theme army. This gives me alot of hopes. So far I only have 80 NG /w spears and 70 /w bows So if I combine them I can do the 150 but I would probly do the 80man /w spears and 2 30man /w bows.

Col. Dash
23-07-2010, 13:03
I dont think its broken, it actually seems very gobliny. What would my current list do? Magic aside as I have two mages and and what they end up with is unpredicatble so we will go straight combat. I would send a vangaurding hobgoblin wolfriders unit forward at an angle to release a fanatic in front of your orc boys. Hit the gobbo unit with an earth shaker slowing them to half movement and rocket launcher the orc boy units. While they do that, another wolfrider unit and possibly my lord on a great taurus go around the flanks to go warmachine hunting. Meanwhile back at the ranch my main infantry units wait although my two blunderbuss units might range forward and mess with the orcs and a hobgoblin archer unit plunks shots somewhere(probably quite literally"Up they go and where they drop, no one knows"). Bolt throwers with their amazing unreliability pop shots off at targets of opportunity. As long as the earthshakers keeps landing shots on the hard to miss goblins and possibly aiming in a way to get the 2d6 slow effect to mess with other nearby units that unit should not be an issue since they are only moving at 4" a turn. They are doubly screwed if they get into blunderbuss range.
It is a cool concept though and I am thinking about doing something similar for my own goblins because after all, as they say around here, if you are playing goblins you are mostly doing it for the fun and randomness of it, not the winningness.

Malorian
23-07-2010, 13:33
I have to know...do you have one massive movement tray for that unit?

Six trays did the trick.

I wouldn't suggest people make large single trays for hordes as then you have a hell of a time if you want to reform for ranks.

Djekar
23-07-2010, 15:15
Thanks for the report Mal. I think that I will try this out because I was really worried that it wouldn't be worth it, but it seems to do just fine - I have to admit though, I do hate you for giving me a pressing reason to finish the rest of those night goblins!

Dag
23-07-2010, 16:22
how are any number of night goblins scary? they have a crappy lore, sorry but we do, big and little waaaghs are very sub par now, although still wacky! They're all ws2 str/t3 with what, stubborn 8 with their lord? lol their just as likely to fail a panic check than to hit you in combat. Against big hordes of goblins i would just throw my 9 bulls and tyrant, and laugh as i win every combat by 6-7, just grinding them down, and if my thundermace is good and reliable, that unit wont be 150 for very long =]

you dont even have to engage these units, their huge and badly designed for a game with 5-10 terrain pieces. Also if he cant place it in his deployment zone, sorry its an illegal unit and cant be used, thats the rules sorry. 1inch away from all other units at all times, and the lack of maneuverability makes these gobo's not a threat. Threats are nurgle warrior blockades, or saurus w/spears getting frenzy, thats how you die really painfully. Goblins in huge blocks were always annoying, now their slightly dangerous... stop complaining their goblins all they have is their huge numbers. Cannons kill 10 a turn, stonethrowers will just mulch them, mortars / scraplaunchers kill 25 a turn with a hit. Man up and figure a way to kick those gobo's in the neeeuuuts

Blinder
23-07-2010, 16:31
I'm likely missing something (meaning this is more of a question than a posited solution) but wouldn't a couple ranks into the side of that thing nix steadfast and totally ruin its day (unless the fight is a mega-carnage situation where they're up against a similar unit that dies in droves, too)? Granted at 150 models that's a pretty wide unit and it could bring friends in to flank the flankers (you flunked flank?!?) if you don't see it off right away but it's still a way for a couple more resilient units to break a lot of eggs. Is there something else making them stubborn beyond steadfast from stupid-many models?

Sygerrik
23-07-2010, 16:40
I'm likely missing something (meaning this is more of a question than a posited solution) but wouldn't a couple ranks into the side of that thing nix steadfast and totally ruin its day (unless the fight is a mega-carnage situation where they're up against a similar unit that dies in droves, too)? Granted at 150 models that's a pretty wide unit and it could bring friends in to flank the flankers (you flunked flank?!?) if you don't see it off right away but it's still a way for a couple more resilient units to break a lot of eggs. Is there something else making them stubborn beyond steadfast from stupid-many models?

You don't lose Steadfast for being flanked. It's not your rank bonus, it's how many ranks you have, period.

Anvilbrow
23-07-2010, 17:06
Cannons kill 10 a turn, stonethrowers will just mulch them, mortars / scraplaunchers kill 25 a turn with a hit. Man up and figure a way to kick those gobo's in the neeeuuuts

emphasis mine.

My horde of 100+ lost 52 to three trebuchet hits on the first turn of the game... Not that hard to deal with, even without template weapons.

And yeah, it was a b*&ch to maneuver around.

Blinder
23-07-2010, 17:10
You don't lose Steadfast for being flanked. It's not your rank bonus, it's how many ranks you have, period.

Ahh, ok. Teach me to trust GW's articles, then ;)

Justicar Valius
23-07-2010, 17:22
Gateway in what is it? 89% of battles? Yes, with a 3+/3++ he might survive to get it off that would be awseome if he rolled 11 or 12 for strength.

The more I think about lists like this the more I want a level4 undivided caster in 3000 points.

Haravikk
23-07-2010, 17:28
Bit of an awkward unit for Dwarfs to deal with; while the goblins might not do much damage to Dwarf units, it'll be one big stand off as inconsequential damage is hurled around till one unit eventually breaks and flees, or the game ends. In the latter case you have huge points denial, and just need to kill one (expensive) Dwarf unit to break that 100 points you need to win, not a good situation for the Dwarfs to be in!

The combination of extra supporting attacks for hordes, and the steadfast rule are annoying for horde versus elite battles, I mean you can get...what, 100 Skaven Slaves for 200 points? But you can get 25 Dwarf warriors with hand weapons. If that's the way things go we'll have an awful lot of uneventful combats and unwieldy battles going on.

It would certainly be funny to see a unit of 250 goblins or whatever being run down by a much smaller unit of Dwarfs!

Shimmergloom
23-07-2010, 17:45
I don't know about people complaining about this. This is just a list or unit that will surprise people at first, but once you see it a time or two, you can easily counter it.

People will be able to adapt to this. It's a bunch of ASL characters most T4 with 2 wounds and little armor. And then a bunch of T3 I3 S3 night goblins.

I'd rather see one unit of 150 night goblins, then 3 units of 50. Because that means only 3 fanatics and not 9.

TheSanityAssassin
23-07-2010, 18:14
Flames of the Phoenix for the win. Otherwise, holymccrap I don't know what I'd do against that.

VetSgtSchaeffer
23-07-2010, 18:50
God I love people who whine about cheesy lists and how if they saw an opponent with a goblin deathstar lol they would never play that person again. Taking your stuff and going home instead of finding a way to beat it is the poorest sportsmanship doucher move you can make.

DisasterMaster
23-07-2010, 19:44
I want to hit that unit with wither. WANT TO WANT TO WANT TO. Or plague. Or both.

Col. Dash
23-07-2010, 19:57
I think quitting is a bit of an overreaction. I am very anti-power gaming and see nothing wrong with it, afterall, you cant get much fluffier than a huge mob of goblins. As already been determined, it isnt unstoppable, low skill, low leadership, difficult to manuever, hard to miss. But totally fun heheh. I would actually score highly on composition.

Shimmergloom
23-07-2010, 20:06
I'd be more concerned with his 2 units of 50 orcs.

15 wide goblins can't get all their attacks unless you are going wide against them as well.

So if he's putting 9 characters in one unit, then he can't possibly get them all to fight unless you are at least 7 wide or 13 wide just to get his potential attacks into combat.

I think in time if he put all his orc characters into the orc units with better equipment and items and switched his night goblin bsb for a blk orc one, and just used the night goblins to tarpit, the list would be very tough.

But with VP's going the way they are, not super horrible I don't want to play it like the 7th deathstar lists were.

Because he gives up alot of vps for those no armor ASL characters, chariots and other small support stuff.

vcassano
23-07-2010, 20:07
These size units aren't going to be the norm or even close to it. Purely for economic and practical reasons. However I think it is nice that there is space to allow for a wider variety in army shapes and sizes.

Also surely the unit's movement is fairly manageable for the opponent given its unwieldiness? That and the troops' poor stats are the two biggest weapons you can use against it. Oh and lots of templates.

stashman
23-07-2010, 21:20
Just make sure you have another character to make a challenge or else I'll just let you kill one 34 point hero and then go ahead to beat, break, and run down the whole unit :evilgrin:

But yeah, that sword is perfect against units like this, however I don't think many will take it as only orcs and goblins can really cash in on the character spam.


Edit: on another note, a person brought enough minotaurs yesterday that he could make a horde with them.

Now that would have been a cool battle :D

I wan't to play in your enviorment!!!

sulla
23-07-2010, 21:32
So yesterday I played two games with my night goblin horde:

-150 night goblins with banner, musician, nets (15 wide and 10 deep)
-9 cheap characters with great weapons


Although I'm not a great fan of the gamesmanship that is massed goblin characters in the front rank (IMO, 3-4 would have been enough, 9 is just being a #*ck), I applaude your use of the massive horde. These big units are a sight to behold on the battlefield.

stashman
23-07-2010, 21:39
Malorian: was everything painted? Do you have so many characters?

If yes - Thats damn cool!!! I have alot of characters that never ever come to use in 7th ED. becuse of max 4 character rule. But now I'm going wiyh big bosses as the generals bodyguard :D

If you prox the bosses and the 150 unit - Thats not cool :mad:


I'm goin for 100 unit of nightgoblins with spear/shield or goblins with shield and shortbow. Adding a BSB with poison banner and supporting the unit with alot of squigherds!!!! If the herds blows, it won't harm the unit but the opponents units :)

I wanna se your next fight with that 150 unit in your next youtube film

Petey
23-07-2010, 22:01
We crunched some numbers and played some mathhammer with that unit in a vacuum against 50 seaguard.

We were having drinks and doing the math so not everything was necessarily perfect but, round one long rang 9 goblins die.
Round 2 11 gobbos die
Round 3 gobbos charge (we took out the fanatics (yeah sorry)) 9 more die to reaction fire so the unit is at 121 gobbos.
Close combat thanks to the nets 15 goblins are slaughtered. 106 goblins remain, unfearing the elves, then they swing back killing 7 elves. Stead fast on a 6?
And so on.

Keep in mind we weren't using your list in specific, just talking about gobbos (which my ex got me to buy and paint) vs his or my HE. Those numbers alone make me happy at the potential epic battles to come.

SYN Ace
23-07-2010, 22:14
Reminds me of my friend's 4th edition super gobbo unit -- 300 goblins with the Crown of Command (back when gobbo heroes could lead from the back) and the Bad Moon Banner (insta kill enemy wizards it touched).

warlord hack'a
23-07-2010, 23:08
first unit that popped into my head when i read the new rules was a 250 man (25 wide 10 deep) night gobbo archer unit with 9 characters, one of then the bsb with the spider banner. (Yes I have the models and yes that will be 141 poisoned shots). This unit is so wide however (50 cm) that maneuvering is not possible, so I just kept it at the theoretical mathhammer level. But let's just say that the 50 GW marauders of khorne will not even reach this unit before they are gunned down.

For real battles however I think I will stick to 60-80 gobs in a unit. Good work though Malorian in conceiving and then trying out this idea, IMO they should put half VP for below half strength units back in, either that or lose steadfast when flanked by an enemy unit with two or more ranks. Your short experiment proves this exactly, so you achieved your goal as far as I am concerned, which of course was not to crush the opponent, you don't need 150 gobbo's for that ;-).

pluch87
23-07-2010, 23:39
Oh boy I have to try that!!!!! I'm in the process of putting together +150 previous edition night gobbos, so that mob is a must for me at least once!

pkain762
24-07-2010, 00:04
i played a similar list today....

3 black or bosses
1 ng great shaman
6 goblin war bosses

40 boys
100 night goblins
100 night goblins with bows
5 spider riders
5 spider riders

4 spear chuckas
2 stone lobbas
2 wolf chariots
2 doom divers
2 snotling pump wagons

played against a HE army and totally beat the bricks off of em, it was a lot of fun.

nas
24-07-2010, 00:16
Here's my antidote; 6 rounds of Treason of tzeentch + Dual Hellcannon blasts.

brendel
24-07-2010, 00:37
I think that was a good idea to try out Marlorain, I have always liked the idea of fighting large shield wall battles, your goblins would not have feared my elves at all.

But i think i could find away to beat it lol.

One thing i would like to add is the lack of animosity tests would make for a better game on your part.

Seabo
24-07-2010, 01:28
Minotaur idea is me :D
18 Minos w/FC, AHW-ranked 6x3
Gorebull BSB w/Beast Banner
Doombull
1500ish points depending on gear but basic attack summary is 4+2D3 Impacts, 75 S6 Attacks(counting BSB+Frenzy), 6 S7 Attacks(Base Doombull), 6 S5 Stomps
Very...very painful.
Bring on the Gobs!!!!!!!!!!!!
:skull:

Justicar Valius
24-07-2010, 01:39
Here's my antidote; 6 rounds of Treason of tzeentch + Dual Hellcannon blasts.

Thank you :) But I only have one hellcannon. You know what in 3000 points I'll take a lvl4 undivided with lore of death (or is it shadow?) for doom and darkness then just fire the hellcannon blast into the middle, It's bound to clip at least one model causing a panic check at -1 for hellcannon as well as what is it? -3 for doom and darkness.

Treason of tzeentch, Infernal gateway, Black sun, should also be nasty.

Gambles
24-07-2010, 02:01
Whats funny to me is the the rules passage "we can't all fire!" where it describes that units such as elves would have the discipline to hold shots that would have no chance of hitting, and units like goblins the rule represents that they would wildly fire away even the models with no chance. With a horde of 150 it's safe to say if they all fired they would do some self damage.... which is very OnG lol.

Malorian
24-07-2010, 06:02
Malorian: was everything painted? Do you have so many characters?

If yes - Thats damn cool!!! I have alot of characters that never ever come to use in 7th ED. becuse of max 4 character rule. But now I'm going wiyh big bosses as the generals bodyguard :D

If you prox the bosses and the 150 unit - Thats not cool :mad:

Only thing proxied was 6 squig hoppers used as night goblins because I had left them at home, the other 144 gobbos and the 9 characters are all real :)


Most of the characters were converted from the older, and larger, night goblins and then given ogre/black orc weapons to act as great weapons.

Panzeesmasha
24-07-2010, 12:07
Yes, I think a unit of 150 NGs with lots of bbosses can be pretty mean but I think people suggesting Malorian is being (I believe I read earlier) 'twattish' are being ridiculous. I can't think of a MORE gobliny unit than one containing 150 gobbos. Is it anymore 'twattish' than fielding a VC Graveguard/Bloodknight 'deathstar' unit in 7th that had both hatred and regen with a few (HARD and EXPENSIVE) characters in? Bbosses are like 34pts each have 2 wounds and a t4 with little armour... they ain't hard! As someone has mentioned... they're still only gobbos! Is it regarded as 'beardy' because gobbos (150 of them mind) shouldn't be hard and gamewinning whereas VC/DE deathstars can be? Are O&G not 'allowed' to do deathstar or something? Finally, us O&G can now have a chance at powergaming if we like (not that I will... i'm too friendly :D )

ghostline
24-07-2010, 12:30
Hmmm how to kill this horde.

1. Cast Enfeeblment on it(the spell that reduces strength by d3)
2. If you reduce them to Strength 1, attack them with a unit of 10 night goblins with nets.
3. Profit?

Urgat
24-07-2010, 13:14
Hmmm how to kill this horde.

1. Cast Enfeeblment on it(the spell that reduces strength by d3)
2. If you reduce them to Strength 1, attack them with a unit of 10 night goblins with nets.
3. Profit?

1. shaman lvl 4
2. spirit totem
3. staff of sneaky stealing
4. laughts as you got less PD than the O&G player has DD?

This applies to every spell, of course. I'm actually thinking about converting an orc slave to justify the spirit totem in my army, so annoyed I am at all the people talking about dweller beneath and so on as an answer to everything.

Toshiro
24-07-2010, 13:59
You play this game WITH someone, not against them. The most lost point in the whole gaming hobby.

Well said Walls :)

Lhel
24-07-2010, 14:50
Plenty of ways to kill large units as small. The magic lores are well suited for huge units, large templates or things as simple as forced panic/ld tests. Just a matter of a little imagination. You can more then likely just manoeuvre around it for the duration of the game with some armies...

Would have found it quite a fun challenge to face that army, don't really have many ways as Tomb Kings, but I think I'd be able to do well enough. SSC would be forcing with a little luck 2 panics a round as well as a fair few casualties. From a guess my main unit of skellies would last 3-4 rounds before it would be crippled. In that time my prince would quite likely have killed at least 3 if not more heroes. The remaining units should be able to take the other two orc units, at least one fairly comfortable. It would have been a huge meat and bone grinding carnage.

Sounds fine by me.

Large units seem to become fairly common this edition, might as well get used to it.

Thalenchar
24-07-2010, 17:14
I love 8th bringing us novel army builds like this. Totally fluffy I think and forcing you to think hard how you can deal with it on the spot. As mentioned yes, there are a myriad of ways to deal with this unit and no, that means it is not overpowered. I think it's great that armies such as O&G (emphasis on the G) and Skaven can now field the truly big hordes they are known for in the fluff. This would be an incredible annoying unit if it were 150 Clanrats or Skavenslaves! Skaven characters would be more expensive than NG ones, of course.

rtunian
24-07-2010, 17:33
1. shaman lvl 4
2. spirit totem
3. staff of sneaky stealing
4. laughts as you got less PD than the O&G player has DD?

This applies to every spell, of course. I'm actually thinking about converting an orc slave to justify the spirit totem in my army, so annoyed I am at all the people talking about dweller beneath and so on as an answer to everything.

dispel dice are worthless against the ultimate power spells that are only going off on IF anyway. "oh you have 10 dispel dice eh? well, i have 6, and that's all i can cast with anyway, so here goes~ oh sorry urgat, double 6's. guess you can hold onto those dispel dice"

Djekar
24-07-2010, 17:36
I agree with the people who are saying: A) it's fluffy and B) they are still goblins. If Night Goblin Hordes with (Night Goblin) Big Boss support becomes the new Shade-star or GG bunker of 8th ed I will eat my hat*. Seriously.

*this is void upon the release of the 8th edition O&G army book. I believe that GW can and will do anything to the army upon the release of their next incarnation. I don't want to gamble *that* bad.

Urgat
24-07-2010, 18:08
dispel dice are worthless against the ultimate power spells that are only going off on IF anyway. "oh you have 10 dispel dice eh? well, i have 6, and that's all i can cast with anyway, so here goes~ oh sorry urgat, double 6's. guess you can hold onto those dispel dice"

Well, if you're counting on an irresistible force, I can then count on you casting that spell only once before it's forgotten or something, so no big deal :p

rtunian
24-07-2010, 20:50
i wouldn't count on anything in 8th edition :p good or bad.

meneroth
25-07-2010, 06:31
haha, i count on that giant temple guard deathstar killing most of its own models before it makes it into combat with miscasts.

ftayl5
25-07-2010, 06:39
How many inches by inches was that unit?
It's a scary unit. Especially with the Lodestone carrying Warboss so it has MR 3. Shooting would hurt it. Alot.
And it is very fluffy. It's really exactly how they would form up if a particularly powerful Boss was leading the way.

Imagine a horde of Squid Herders... Wouldn't be that great actually.

Urgat
25-07-2010, 08:05
A herder horde ( a herde? :p)would be awesome, being immune to panic, but it'd also cost a damn lot.

ftayl5
25-07-2010, 08:41
but it'd also cost a damn lot.

Yeah. A 150 model unit would be in the 900's. But 60 or 80 would be nice. Would cost 100's of dollars though

Urgat
25-07-2010, 09:18
150 of them would be exactly 900. But to be honest, 10 herds would be pretty cool already (and 300 pts is much more manageable). You deploy them all in a conga line (I mean each herd, not the whole unit, you put the squigs behind each other and then the two gobs), so you get three ranks of squigs, and behind that, two ranks of goblins. That's a lot of S5 attacks from the front.

Jingizu
25-07-2010, 10:02
Meet a O&G player yesterday with NG Spear/Shield in 10X10, he was som angry when he failed the Anomosity check first 2 turns and my grudge throwers just hammered them :)

Lorcryst
25-07-2010, 11:27
Ahhhh, Animosity ... another reason why an über unit of 100+ gobboes isn't overpowered : 33% chance of the unit NOT following the plan each turn ...

shinankoku
25-07-2010, 14:18
Ahhhh, Animosity ... another reason why an über unit of 100+ gobboes isn't overpowered : 33% chance of the unit NOT following the plan each turn ...

That's why you bring a black Orc. Honestly, my Orc army's discpline problems have really gone away with these rules: every - and I do mean every - Orc and goblin block has a black Orc.

Rincewind
25-07-2010, 14:33
Then it's no longer a Goblin army. Real Goblins make do with leadership 8 (or 7, if they are night gobbos)! :D

Lorcryst
25-07-2010, 14:45
Meh, I'm a "theme or bust" player, I choose to restrict myself to Night Goblins only, of course if I (one day, while really drunk) decide to make a nasty army list, Black Orcs solve the animosity problem.

SamVimes
25-07-2010, 15:09
The 150 night goblins doesn't scare me. What scares me are the 100 Grave Guard that aren't ever going to die, ever.

twistinthunder
25-07-2010, 15:38
curse of the leper, gateway, marauder horsemen horde,hellcannon. all enough to get rid of that huge unit.

Stonewyrm
25-07-2010, 16:25
I have read a lot of posts by Malorian the last year and a half. He has always been informative, polite and interesting. Must be because he is Canadian :) . He has never come across as a OTT, cheesefest, WAAC kind of guy.

I don't think 150 NG are too much and the characters are cheap but also pretty weak. If I read right they have similar stats to core Khorne Chaos Warriors except the 2 wounds. So for those 34 points 1 NG Bigboss or 2 MoK CW? Even if someone spammed a unit of 20 NG Bigboss I wouldn't be annoyed. There are just tons of ways to deal with them. Plus characters have the disadvantage of giving up points as soon as they die unlike a unit where you have to kill them all.

I think my allcomers Bret list would have fun against this list. I would most likely lose but not because of the 150 NG. What would get in my way would be the 4 Chariots and 2x 50 Boys blocking my flank routes. Good I still could charge the 150 NG with 3 Lances and a block of 50 Peasent Bowmen in the front (the NG block is one foot wide) and I would mostly likely win but that would leave me exposed.

I think at this stage of 8th ed where everyone is trying to go from Theoryhammer to Practicalhammer it's ok to try these kinds of things. I told my main opponents that I don't want to play against DE for a while and that they should take another army. They understand that my Brets have a hard time against DE and we all just want to have fun. That being said they (husband & wife) play HE, DE, Skaven and Dwarves. I think I will have to get used to losing until my WoC army is painted. :cries:

Stonewyrm

Rincewind
25-07-2010, 16:37
Meh, I'm a "theme or bust" player, I choose to restrict myself to Night Goblins only, of course if I (one day, while really drunk) decide to make a nasty army list, Black Orcs solve the animosity problem.

Yeah I'd restrict myself as well except for some reason nobody knows about spider riders and all warmachine crew are forest goblins. Spiders should be night gobbo only while we should be able to choose the crew.

TheShadowCow
25-07-2010, 16:59
Vampires have good synergy between their units for this. Off the top of my head:

Wight King (BSB)
Flag of Blood Keep
Additional Hand Weapon
183

Wight King
Sword of Kings, Nightshroud
120

98 Skeleton Warriors
Spears, Full Command, Banner of Hellfire
912

10x10 block, 4+ Ward versus incoming ranged attacks of all flavours, a nasty challenge-machine Wight and... (indirectly,) supported by:

Vampire Lord
Forbidden Lore, Master of the Black Arts, Lord of the Dead
Helm of Commandment, Wristbands of Black Gold, Staff of Damnation
Level 3, Hellsteed
485

Who flaps around further bolstering the unit, giving the unit WS7 and (potentially) allowing the unit to attack in the magic phase as well. Sprinkle with Vanhel's for ASF and re-rolls to hit if possible :p

Urgat
25-07-2010, 18:20
Yeah I'd restrict myself as well except for some reason nobody knows about spider riders and all warmachine crew are forest goblins. Spiders should be night gobbo only while we should be able to choose the crew.

Warmachine crews are common gobs and spider riders have always been forest gobs, and no, no night gob spider riders, enough with night gobs having everything, I'm sick of night gobs this night gobs that. I hope Vetock isn't all overblown with hot air and actually brings back a decent selection of forest goblin units and makes common gobs as interesting as the frackin' night gobs.

Lorcryst
25-07-2010, 18:37
I'm not asking for more Night Goblin units, and I agree with Urgat, more Forest Goblin units are needed (brings back some of that 3rd/4th ed feeling) ... but all that is far from the überunit used by Malorian :p

Liancour
25-07-2010, 19:00
When I read all this the only question I've got is : do you play with terrain rules ?
Because if there's a handful of impassable terrain, some nasty forests or river, the big globin unit won't be able to move (or will move with a lot of casualties).

Buildings rules are stupid in this case because they assume there's enough space in a small church for 150 goblins.

Petey
25-07-2010, 20:18
I can picture 150 goblins in a chapel. I feel very sorry for the chapel, but they could do it. They'd be on the roof, swinging from chandeliers, hiding under the pews, and drowning in the wine in the basement. Sadly none of these things seem to change their combat effectiveness...

Urgat
25-07-2010, 21:04
I can picture 150 goblins in a chapel. I feel very sorry for the chapel, but they could do it.

Me too. One just needs to think about Gremlins to picture it :D

Greymarch
25-07-2010, 22:01
I love 8th bringing us novel army builds like this. Totally fluffy I think and forcing you to think hard how you can deal with it on the spot. As mentioned yes, there are a myriad of ways to deal with this unit and no, that means it is not overpowered. I think it's great that armies such as O&G (emphasis on the G) and Skaven can now field the truly big hordes they are known for in the fluff. This would be an incredible annoying unit if it were 150 Clanrats or Skavenslaves! Skaven characters would be more expensive than NG ones, of course.

I wonder how many assassins I could front-load into a horde of clanrats...

Blizzinam
25-07-2010, 22:29
Tried the list but had a gobbo with the wizard hat in the unit, thus making them immune to psychology, the wonders of technology.

stashman
25-07-2010, 23:17
Tried the list but had a gobbo with the wizard hat in the unit, thus making them immune to psychology, the wonders of technology.

ItP: If the majority of models in a unit...

So I guess no ItP becuse of stupid hat ;)

Havock
26-07-2010, 00:49
Just make sure you have another character to make a challenge or else I'll just let you kill one 34 point hero and then go ahead to beat, break, and run down the whole unit :evilgrin:

But yeah, that sword is perfect against units like this, however I don't think many will take it as only orcs and goblins can really cash in on the character spam.


Edit: on another note, a person brought enough minotaurs yesterday that he could make a horde with them.

Now that would have been a cool battle :D

Treason of Tzeentch the bunch. Buboes on the BSB.
After that a bunch of Chaos knights to the front. Sure, steadfast all you want, with the banner of rage every knight will still kill a goblin hero on average :p

There are plenty of counters to it, plenty of which are good old 7th ed stuff.

sindrix
26-07-2010, 01:09
I'm also getting another battle for skull pass box so I might be able to do a 200 model unit in the future ;)

Might just use a cooking sheet as a movement tray :D



try http://shogunminiatures.com/ i love these things and they are super cheap for what they are

Justicar Valius
26-07-2010, 01:25
Basic LD of night gobbos is 5, cast pandemonium and you can't benefit from character Leadership (i think) then hit with a hellcannon. Panic test on LD4 or run away.

ftayl5
26-07-2010, 06:26
When I read all this the only question I've got is : do you play with terrain rules ?
Because if there's a handful of impassable terrain, some nasty forests or river, the big globin unit won't be able to move (or will move with a lot of casualties).


This.
I was playing against a VC army with a very large Zombie unit (90 or something.) We randomly 'deployed' terrain (scatter and 4D6") thabks to the forests and a building, the unit only had one 'clear' path. Which I simply chucked 2 spear chukkas and a rock lobba in front of.

SO he had to march his big unit up this spot with spidees in the forests attempting to march block (and succeeding on one or two turns)

Zombie horde was at about 60 when it hit my units. Actually I charged but yeah.
Crown of WS 7 to it helped it but it got ripped up by chariots, pump wagons and boyz.
So while they might seem unbeatable. I did it, and I'm not very good at Warhammer.

pluch87
27-07-2010, 21:38
Why not stick a bsb with the spider banner in the unit of 150 NG's for some poisoned fun?! Or has someone already mentioned this :confused:?

Malorian
27-07-2010, 21:39
Why not stick a bsb with the spider banner in the unit of 150 NG's for some poisoned fun?! Or has someone already mentioned this :confused:?

He would be killed right away... and in all armies the BSB is critical.

Jingizu
27-07-2010, 21:45
We have (to be more "true" to the fluff) stop using the "look out sire" rule for the O&G. Reading the books and thinking of the life/society of the greenskins, which gobbo are willing sacrifice himself to put theboss/leader/first one that kicks you in the morning out of harm?? ;)

Urgat
27-07-2010, 21:57
Gobbos don't need the nerf though. Just say that it's the character who shoots "look out!", grabs a pal next to him and pull him in front of him to act as a shield. Much more fun, and doesn't warrant such an arbitrary and unfair houserule.

pluch87
27-07-2010, 22:11
He would be killed right away... and in all armies the BSB is critical.

Point taken, just thought it would be a fun one-off try :p.

On that note, where do you stick your bsb to avoid him being killed right away? Everyone will be doing bsb hunting in this edition, so where is a safe place to put a goblin bsb while benefiting from his re-rolls at the same time?

rtunian
27-07-2010, 22:13
yes i think the greenskin interpretation of the look out, sir! rule would be as urgat describes: the sham/boss grabs a grot to use as a green-skinned shield on a 2+, or on a 4+ if he's outside the unit

Rincewind
28-07-2010, 01:16
He would be killed right away... and in all armies the BSB is critical. Not if you fill the front rank with other characters. :evilgrin:

dustin harnois
01-08-2010, 02:23
thats is the most magical thing i have heard... sob* i play orcs and goblins (die hard and wont ever play another army) so seeing this ridiculousness just makes me happy:cries::D . try something like this... add in a spider banner and bows (for free) and get over a hundred shots with poison.... wha hahahahahahaha!!!! Goblin superiority for the win!!!!

w3rm
01-08-2010, 03:46
Hehehehe fists of gork the hell out of that thing!

Bauknefer
01-08-2010, 04:04
Hahaha I love this list. It would be great to play against. I am a skaven player personally and have yet to play 8th... waiting for the mini rule book. But i personally would dedicate all i could to making that unit managable plague wind mortars warp fire throwers..(always include some in all lists, just in case) and i guess just pray for the best haha i guess some magic may help but i never go magic heavy and i would tie it up with slaves give it a turn or 2 of templates then charge it on the flank with some stormvermin or rat ogers or plague censer bearers lol but i would have a blast.