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View Full Version : Is this really how it works with Genestealers?



SanguinaryDan
23-07-2010, 03:46
I played a game tonight against a guy using a Genestealer horde army, lead by a Tyrant and a pair of Mawlocs, and ran across something that just didn't seem right.

On turn 2 my Stormraven came on the table and opened up on a big clump of Stealers. I did reasonably well and killed 7 of them between the Assault Cannons and Typhoon ML. I figured that was the end of that when the guy picks up his dice and rolls a Panic check. :confused: I had assumed that Stealers were Fearless so I asked him what he was rolling for. He said they weren't and of course failed the test. Over the course of 5 turns he failed 4-5 different morale tests. :wtf:

Since when were Genestealers such pussies? Was he wrong? Or are the damned things really such a joke?

massey
23-07-2010, 03:51
They are Leadership 10. They are only Fearless if they are within Synapse range.

MasterDecoy
23-07-2010, 03:51
fairly sure they are LD 10, so unless he was excessivly unlucky, they arnt.

Wolf 11x
23-07-2010, 03:55
They're LD 10. They benefit from Synapse, but can function normally outside of Synapse.

SanguinaryDan
23-07-2010, 03:57
I'm amazed they require Synapse to be Fearless but ti would certainly explain why it never mattered. The Tyrant succumbed to an Alpha Strike from the SR combined with Dante haven given him a pregame kick in the family jewels.

Are Mawlocs Synapse? If so he may have had a couple of times where he scrwed himself. Though I must say I think their magic S6 AP2 pie plate arrival sucks hugely. :p

Stumpy
23-07-2010, 04:09
Mawlocs aren't synapse. I guess he just got unlucky with the genestealers leadership. Just as a note, Dante's stupid curse thing can't affect a tyrant (he's not an independent character).

Lord Inquisitor
23-07-2010, 04:18
Remember that stealers are intelligent as much as they appear to be mindless killing machines and while fanatically loyal to their brood (and supported by their telepathy, hence Ld10) they're not stupid either...

barrangas
23-07-2010, 05:20
Sometimes you just get unlucky. I've had games were I'd make 1 out of every 6 armor saves for my CSM, could not get a single wound with any heavy weapon I had, and failed every leadership save even with the Icon of Chaos Undivided. It happens and it sucks to get tabled do to colosal dice failure.

IcedAnimals
23-07-2010, 08:32
It definitely sucks to have bad dice for an entire game. However there is nothing I hate more than the person who blames the entire game on his bad dice and how he SHOULD have won. These are the people who will roll a bunch of 1s for their terminator saves but then roll every scatter dice as a direct hit and complain the entire game that the game was against them. Drives ya nuts.

As for the genestealers the chances of failing that many leadership tests with a LD10 unit is pretty insane.

Metaphorazine
23-07-2010, 10:08
I think sometimes people forget about when they rolled well, and focus on when they rolled badly. I know times that my orks smash into a bunch of guardians and roll nothing but 1's and 2's sticks in my head, but times they roll nothing but 5's and 6's seem to slip away. Cause when they do, they win combat, just like I expected them to, but when they roll badly, SOMETHING HAS GONE TERRIBLY WRONG!

Just comes down to your expectations I think. :)

The Marshel
23-07-2010, 10:52
occasionally there will be situations when bad dice rolling, good dice rolling or just incredible luck turns the game against you or for you. one moment can be enough to swing the game well in one persons favor.

for example, playing an ork player, he had a big mek with shock attack gun sitting in a ruin, because the ruin didn't actually provide that much cover we called it a 5+ in every game involving said ruin. so my landraider redeemer fires off his assault cannon and multimelta. more then enough wounds from weapons to kill it, all cover saves passed. next turn the shok attak gun destroys the raider. up until then it was looking to be a relatively tight game, but with the raider out and the shok attack gun still firing off ap 2 blast at my guys things became a lot harder for me and as these things go i fell apart and i believe i only avoided being tabled by one marine. I'm not saying i would have won if not for this one case of extremely poor/extremely good luck but i think its a perfectly valid example of when pure luck can win or lose a game

Silent_Moebius
23-07-2010, 11:38
I can only agree. I have a valid sentence in my signature for this. Really happend.

But on the other hand, where would be the thrill? I mean, seeing that you opponent shoots with one (1) stormbolter on your Trygon and makes two (2) wounds? I swear, the exertion of making saves was never be greater ;)

Bunnahabhain
23-07-2010, 11:40
Of course the fouls Xenos will run at the first taste of Imperial Cold Steel Hot lead. I find you lack of faith in your God- Emperor and your weapons disturbing, and even Astartes are not above the Sanction of the Commissar. Take heed, brother Sergeant!

Bestaltan
23-07-2010, 12:09
....... and even Astartes are not above the Sanction of the Commissar. Take heed, brother Sergeant!

Oh, I'm sure THAT would go over well for the commissar. ;)

Bunnahabhain
23-07-2010, 12:25
Plasma pistols, AP3 Hellpistols, or the marine being heroic and leaving his helmet behind again...

SanguinaryDan
23-07-2010, 18:07
Bunn, Bunn, Bunn... There's a difference between lack of faith in the Emperor and trying to make sure an opponent didn't screw himself. ;)

Though obviously his army build did that well enough with only a single synapse creature in his entire force.

Sunfang
23-07-2010, 18:43
Though obviously his army build did that well enough with only a single synapse creature in his entire force.

Thats kid of what I was thinking...

How many points were you guys playing?

TheSanityAssassin
23-07-2010, 18:49
Sometimes you just get unlucky. I've had games were I'd make 1 out of every 6 armor saves for my CSM, could not get a single wound with any heavy weapon I had, and failed every leadership save even with the Icon of Chaos Undivided. It happens and it sucks to get tabled do to colosal dice failure.

This seems to be how my Word Bearer marine squads want to roll all the time. The termies and daemons more than make up for it, but I'm averaging 1 hit per 12 attacks with my Power Weapons, and slightly worse than 50% on my 3-up saves.

eriochrome
23-07-2010, 19:13
Genestealers have solid Ld value and high initiative but bad armor so having them not in synapse can actually be good in assaults. If they lose they have a good chance of getting away while they have a poor chance of saving no retreat wounds.

Setesh
23-07-2010, 19:36
Genestealers are smart enough to know when to withdraw.

Grimtuff
23-07-2010, 20:57
The Tyrant succumbed to an Alpha Strike from the SR combined with Dante haven given him a pregame kick in the family jewels.


Dante can't affect HT's with his mask thingy as they're not Independent Characters.

LonelyPath
24-07-2010, 00:07
Stealers may benefit from LD10 and Brood Telepathy, but they're not Fearless, a shame real as otherwise they'd be nigh on perfect ;)

MystheDevourer
24-07-2010, 04:51
I'm amazed they require Synapse to be Fearless but ti would certainly explain why it never mattered. The Tyrant succumbed to an Alpha Strike from the SR combined with Dante haven given him a pregame kick in the family jewels.

Are Mawlocs Synapse? If so he may have had a couple of times where he scrwed himself. Though I must say I think their magic S6 AP2 pie plate arrival sucks hugely. :p

I would have to read into it but I am like 90% sure you can not Alpha Strike the Stormraven. I could be wrong but it does say the "Unit Dante has joined. . . "

You never did let them assault through cover did you?

Alessander
24-07-2010, 09:26
often falling back is a sign that the unit is smart. doesn't help the wargaming player tho :smile:

Grimtuff
24-07-2010, 09:54
I would have to read into it but I am like 90% sure you can not Alpha Strike the Stormraven. I could be wrong but it does say the "Unit Dante has joined. . . "

You never did let them assault through cover did you?

"Alpha Strike"? What on earth is this when it's at home then? :confused:

barrangas
24-07-2010, 15:40
Stealers may benefit from LD10 and Brood Telepathy, but they're not Fearless, a shame real as otherwise they'd be nigh on perfect ;)

On the down side they could suffer from the No Retreat rule. I think they only have a 5+ save, so extra wounds would suck. It's not like many things will catch them when they fall back.

SanguinaryDan
24-07-2010, 16:53
I would have to read into it but I am like 90% sure you can not Alpha Strike the Stormraven. I could be wrong but it does say the "Unit Dante has joined. . . "

You never did let them assault through cover did you?

:confused: An Alpha Strike is when you unload your full strength on a target. It's generally used to describe a maximum effort strike by an aircraft carrier's air wing on a target. In this case it was the Assault Cannons, 2 Krak missiles and 4 Bloodstrike missiles.

And I am entirely unsure what Dante has to do with that in any way, shape or form. But I did ask him if the Tyrant was an IC when the game began, and he said yes. So we applied the Mask's effects.
------------------------------------------------------
In our 2000 point game he had the Tyrant, 2 Mawlocs and 5-6 units of Genestealers each with a Broodlord.

LonelyPath
24-07-2010, 23:49
On the down side they could suffer from the No Retreat rule. I think they only have a 5+ save, so extra wounds would suck. It's not like many things will catch them when they fall back.

I take it back, I was thinking of the Ymgarl's save at the time... That teaches me to post on here after a few drinks, lol. Booze soon messes up 5+ and 4+ saves (I know from experience in gaming to hahahaha).

I'd still like Fearless on Stealers though for incoming fire. One my Stealers hit in CC they rarely have to stay in it for long (I tend to wipe out most opponents on the first round).