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gloriousbattle
01-08-2010, 17:28
Most of you are probably a little young for this, but some of the old grognards might remember.

In the very earliest editions of LOTR, in the chapter The Shadow of the Past, didn't Gandalf give a long list of monsters that served Sauron, and weren't vampires included in the list? I am not talking about the more recently published prequel writings, but the actual text of LOTR from the earliest editions that, for some reason, were cut out later?

Tuscuttar
01-08-2010, 17:35
Alas, I am too young for the earliest editions... Humpf.

gloriousbattle
01-08-2010, 20:12
Alas, I am too young for the earliest editions... Humpf.

A lot of throw away monsters were certainly mentioned from time to time. I remember Gandalf saying in The Hobbit that he should find a respectable giant to seal the goblin's hole in the Misty Mountains, or something like that.

Enazel
01-08-2010, 20:17
Vampires where definitely part of Morgoth Forces, but as for later period of the War of the Ring I am not so sure.


Sauron also took the shape of a vampire on at least one occasion, while he still had the ability to change his shape. They may have been fallen Maiar as was Sauron, lesser angelic spirits (as opposed to the Valar, greater angelic spirits, as was Morgoth). They are mentioned in The Silmarillion.

gloriousbattle
01-08-2010, 22:15
Vampires where definitely part of Morgoth Forces, but as for later period of the War of the Ring I am not so sure.

Does seem to be an issue whether they survived into the Third Age.

Zothos
05-08-2010, 19:25
There is no evidence that i have been able to find that says Vampire's were in the service of Sauron.

They were a footnote in the Silmarillion, and to my knowledge never mentioned in LoTR

Simon Sez
06-08-2010, 11:00
What about Thuringwethil? She was Sauron's herald until Huan killed her and Luthien snuck into Angband wearing her skin.

Ar-Gimilzor
06-08-2010, 15:39
Thuringwethil was certainly a vampire servant of Sauron, and there may have been more. They don't seem to make an appearance in the 3rd age, however.

Wyrmwood
07-08-2010, 00:49
What about Thuringwethil? She was Sauron's herald until Huan killed her and Luthien snuck into Angband wearing her skin.

This is true and the only named Vampire; though afaik it's mentioned that Sauron had other Vampires, as well as Werewolves and such creatures, in his service under Morgoth though I think they were all destroyed by the Third Age, or were at least never mentioned again.

ForgottenLore
07-08-2010, 06:03
Werewolves are mentioned in LotRs, but not vampires.

As near as I can tell from my research though, he meant something other than the modern meaning of werewolf. He seemed to have meant were- as a sort of supernatural prefix and his werewolves were something along the lines of spirit wolves, or possibly even he just meant another name for wargs.

Of course, this is all something that went right past GW.

Suicide Messiah
07-08-2010, 10:51
The older versions of werewolves (men who turned into wolves) seems much more tolkienesque than modern day werewolves. I imagine his vision of vampires was similarly understated.

Wyrmwood
08-08-2010, 06:22
The older versions of werewolves (men who turned into wolves) seems much more tolkienesque than modern day werewolves.

Hmm, that's what I thought too... Until it was, in The Silmarillion I *think*, they're effectively regular wolves possessed by evil spirits. I'll have a dig through my copy later to find a source.

gloriousbattle
09-08-2010, 13:17
That was my understanding.

PANZERBUNNY
13-08-2010, 17:17
Most of you are probably a little young for this, but some of the old grognards might remember.

In the very earliest editions of LOTR, in the chapter The Shadow of the Past, didn't Gandalf give a long list of monsters that served Sauron, and weren't vampires included in the list? I am not talking about the more recently published prequel writings, but the actual text of LOTR from the earliest editions that, for some reason, were cut out later?


They weren't many. They were in fact more bat/man then a pale faced Dracula. Very primal and animalistic.
Its possible that 1 surviving vampire served Sauron as they would have remembered him as a Lt. of Morgoth. (whom they served.)

Pretty sure that they were mentioned in the silmarilion. Some dude used the shapeshifting cape of one to gain entry into Morgoths fortress?

gloriousbattle
15-08-2010, 00:30
They weren't many. They were in fact more bat/man then a pale faced Dracula. Very primal and animalistic.
Its possible that 1 surviving vampire served Sauron as they would have remembered him as a Lt. of Morgoth. (whom they served.)

Pretty sure that they were mentioned in the silmarilion. Some dude used the shapeshifting cape of one to gain entry into Morgoths fortress?

I think that was Luthien.