View Full Version : Does 1 Unit Vs Another Really Matter?

18-08-2010, 01:49
I didn't know what to make the subject of this thread, but I am just starting Fantasy and I am thinking either Empire or Bretonnians and I was wondering with any of the races does it really make that big of a difference if your block of 25-30 infantry are Swordsmen, Spear men or Helbradiers? Or does it really matter that your unit is 9 Questing vs Grail Knights? How many times do you think it truly would have mattered in a game if you had a comparable, but different unit? Not like if I had a unit of 30 Black Orcs instead of 30 Goblins, but if you had 30 Phoenix Guards instead of White Lions.

18-08-2010, 02:17
Swordsmen are a lot better than spearman and halberdiers. +1 ws, +1 Init, and they get a 6+ ward save. They are undercosted where the other two are average costed.

Victory points are calculated on unit cost. Cheaper units with better stats are usually going to earn you more of them since they can kill more models than they will lose, in general.

18-08-2010, 04:21
Unit Ability vs Point Cost does matter theoretically, but (if you're like me), nine times out of ten, the Dice Gods are going to be against you anyway. Over the many years I've labored away with this hobby, I've seriously contemplated getting rid of all my good units as I score 1's to hit and wound with them constantly anyway! :)

It comes down to a simple mathematical certainty (or uncertainty, if you will):

Warhammer is a game of luck when it comes to dice-rolling and combat/magic/shooting outcomes. We can only bend our chances slightly.

18-08-2010, 05:04
As a fellow beginner, I can say that in 7th ed. it wouldn't have mattered much to you or me. That is because you could give us power lists with all the nastiest stuff and still an expert would be able to maneuver around you, setup his charges, and pick your army apart, all using the crappiest core units!

I don't really agree that 8th is "less tactical" though it is clearly less predictable, and as predictability is notably lacking in warfare, I like the new random charges and most of the other changes for 8th.

So I guess what I'm saying is that in 8th edition, beginners at least have a chance of winning a battle once in a while, so having units that are a bit better costed or skilled is much more likely to help you now :)

R Man
18-08-2010, 09:04
Swordsmen are a lot better than spearman and halberdiers. +1 ws, +1 Init, and they get a 6+ ward save. They are undercosted where the other two are average costed.

Not true in 8th. It was true in 7th but the greater killing/grinding of 8th allow basic infantry units with better offenses to shine through. Halberds are excellent in hordes. Swordsmen still have the best defense, especially against the better troops and spearmen. Empire Spearmen are in between.

As for unit vs unit. It depends on what the units are, and the context of the fight. Generally, units with similar cost and ability, should be very close in performance, supporting factors aside. But some units should stack up very differently. For example, Zombies against HE Spearmen, or Witch Elves. In which case unit function plays a big part. But specifically for Empire and Bretonnians, it depends on who you are fighting, or what you want out of your army. Ideally a mix would do best. Halberds if you want big units that can grind others, or Swordsmen if you want to go deep or Spearmen if you expect to fight low quality (WS 2) enemy infantry. Ultimatley the difference will be felt, but it won't be crittical and you can get by with your preference.

For Bretonnian Knights, QK's are good vs heavy armored enemies, but their GW and Lower save means they are not so great against anyone with a lot of attack power, so anyone with decent Strength should be avoided and that includes infantry with GW's themselves. They are just too expensive to waste. Grail Knights are very different. They are even more expensive, so fewer of them, but they have excellent damage on the charge. But afterward they drop to Strength 4. Ultimately they are best against an enemy that they can keep killing if they get stuck, so again someone with low attack power, but preferably someone with low armour rather than heavy armour. So it would make a big difference.