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Marky
25-08-2010, 17:20
Hi,
I recently decided to start warhammer again and wnat to start a new army, I like the look of dark angels and want to know if they are any good? I would want to make a fairly large 5k+ army using a lot of ravenwing and deathwing with Sammael and Belial
So what are.good and bad about dark angels

bigcheese76
25-08-2010, 17:28
Well, there are quite alot of things to say about the Dark Angels.

For a start, the Dark Angels Veterans in my opinion are some of the nicest looking infantry models in the game. I just love the flowing robes tied in with the power armour. Secondly, you can field an entire army in terminator armour if you feel the need, or an entire bike mounted force instead. When painted well, the deathwing look wonderful and the nice dark green of standard tactical marines isnt bad at all.

The down sides. The codex is quite old. It is considered by some as one of the underdogs. Quite a weak codex in comparrison to the newer more powerful ones, but it shouldnt be to difficult to solve with some good tactics and a well structered army list.

Surgency
25-08-2010, 17:32
It is possible to win with the dark angels codex, just a lot more difficult than it should be. Honestly, unless you're going to play a Deathwing or a Ravenwing army, you're probably better off just using the normal Marine codex, since there really aren't any special rules to differentiate DA Tactical Marines from any other Tactical Marine

Mozzamanx
25-08-2010, 17:36
Dark Angels play very similarly to most Space Marines, except we tend to be a little harder to use and don't have quite as many flashy bits. We are simply an older version of the army, and so alot of the new sparkle from 5th edition is not present in the army.

Effectively, take a basic Space Marine army, and then subtract about 10-15% of the models from it. As well as having fewer models, we don't have the more exotic units such as the Thunderfire or Sternguard. We also have less in the way of special rules, and are not as customisable.

On the upside, we get a few tricks with our elite units. While not game-changing, both our 'Wings have a few tiny bonuses over the normal ones, which give us an overall edge. (Admittedly, we pay out the nose for them)

Ravenwing play like a normal Biker army, except we have Scout and Teleport Homers on every model. We also get 3 scoring units per Troop selection (4 if using Land Speeder RAW) which gives us a massive ability in objective games. On the downside, our Bikes are 33% more expensive.

Deathwing give the nice option for a full-Terminator army, which in itself is terrifying. We have slightly more flexible squads in terms of wargear, but then we also use the older rules so the Cyclones and Stormshields are a bit gimpy. We also get the 'Deathwing Assault' which lets us Deep Strike half our army turn 1.


Overall, we are an older codex and it shows. There are 2 main reasons to play Dark Angels:

- Old wargear is a double-edged sword. We still have the better Smoke Launchers, Psychic Hoods, Scouts and Apothecaries, so if you play around those we can have an ever so slight advantage.
- Overwhelming assault on turn 1. By using a combination of Ravenwing Scout and Deathwing Assault, we can very easily get 2 Terminator squads in the enemies face and a wall of plasma-death before they can react.

We are Space Marines on hard mode. There is no reason to play them unless you plan on using Deathwing and/or Ravenwing, and even if you do you really need to work to make their advantages worthwhile. But when you do pull off an honest win, it feels amazing because you earnt it.

GabrielEvander
25-08-2010, 19:23
Its really bad when we, as Unforgiven, are telling people who like the idea of Dark Angels to go play codex sm....

Israfael
25-08-2010, 19:29
We are Space Marines on hard mode. There is no reason to play them unless you plan on using Deathwing and/or Ravenwing, and even if you do you really need to work to make their advantages worthwhile. But when you do pull off an honest win, it feels amazing because you earned it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :D

Surgency
25-08-2010, 19:32
Its really bad when we, as Unforgiven, are telling people who like the idea of Dark Angels to go play codex sm....

I'm just excited to think of the kinds of things that will happen to DA after seeing the SW and BA codexes

Pawn of Decay
25-08-2010, 19:48
The problem with the Dark Angels codex is that it was a tester codex for 5th Edition. They tried out the new style of writing the codex and found they could work on and improve it. That being, every 5th ed codex to be released after it is better.

My main issue with Dark Angels though is simply the ONLY thing they can do is the Deathwing and Ravenwing Combined. Other wise another Space Marine Themed Codex can do it better.

Deathwing can be owned by the lovely named Wolfwing. Ravenwing just gets beat in the face by White Scars.

So if you love the models/fluff etc. Take the Dark Angels Codex and to hell with it. Other wise pick one of the other SM Codex's for the competitive edge.

351st Rifles
25-08-2010, 21:33
For a start, the Dark Angels Veterans in my opinion are some of the nicest looking infantry models in the game. I just love the flowing robes tied in with the power armour.

I use the veteran squad parts in my normall tactical squads as it just makes them look good als the terminators have death wing deepstrike which meens they can deepstrike first turn. (what a surprise for your opponent) :)

Marky
26-08-2010, 00:04
Ok gives me something to think about... I love thedark angel models and fluff so ill stick with them- as they Armstrong competitive as u say I can use it as a 'fun' army and usemy eldar as a.more competitive force

Could I use the standard marine codex rules for them?

Merus
26-08-2010, 01:17
Could I use the standard marine codex rules for them?

Nothing is stopping you. :)

Grand Master Raziel
26-08-2010, 03:07
As some one who still uses Codex: Dark Angels in competitive events, I feel I have to chime in here. If you're planning to use Ravenwing and Deathwing in concert with each other and with battle company Dark Angels, you can still make a list that compares well with competitive builds from other lists. At the heart of a competitive Dark Angels list are Ravenwing Squadrons and Sammael. Sammael is, quite simply, awesome. No other SM character compares to him. However, he's awesome in an unusual way. Usually, an awesome SM char is either killy in close combat. Lately, the measure of awesome also includes FOC-bending and army-buffs. Sammael isn't particularly killy in close combat. He is, however, killy in the shooting phase like no other SM character - how many other ICs have their own personal plasma cannon? He's also extremely fast-moving and extremely resilient. He provides an army-buff (Rites of Battle) and allows a major FOC-bend: Ravenwing Attack Squadrons as Troops choices.

RW Squadrons are more expensive than standard SM Bike Squadrons, but you get something back for that - Scouts, Fearless, and teleport homers all around. The homers are quite an advantage if you're including Deathwing in your list, and it's an extremely good idea to do so. In particular, scoring RW Attack Bikes might as well be made of pure gold - that is how awesome they are. With Sammael on the table, an Attack Bike becomes a 50pt scoring unit that can move 24" in a single turn. That's an extremely valuable asset all by itself, and arm all your ABs with multimeltas, and they also become quite capable of becoming game-changing strike units.

Now, Deathwing. Deathwing are a little more expensive than vanilla Terminators, and have the older, inferior version of the cyclone missile launcher and the storm shield. On the other hand, up to half your DW component, rounding up, can DS turn 1. Plus, they're Fearless. These two things combined are well worth the extra points. Besides, people make too much of the THSS Termies. Yes, they're very resilient, but regular Termies aren't much less so, hit just as hard in CC, and also have pretty good firepower. Plus, DW Squads can replace the sergeant's power sword with a chainfist for a very low price - vanilla Termies can't do that.

As for the rest of the dex...well, click on the link in my sig titled Sons of the Lion for an in-depth analysis. The short version is that, with a few exceptions, everything is more expensive than it's vanilla SM equivalent, but it still functions well in a combined-arms list with DW and RW.

self biased
26-08-2010, 03:28
in my experience, ravenwing squads are generally only useful if used in concert with deathwing squads. Barring Sammael, the generic Codex can do an all bike army better than DA can, if only for the fact that Ravenwing doesn't get attack bike squads for some reason.

Reflex
26-08-2010, 04:01
This is one thing common to picking an army:

You will enjoy your army alot more if you love the models, love the fluff love the feel.

if you dont have this then the army will never live up to your expectations.

Merus
26-08-2010, 04:07
This is one thing common to picking an army:

You will enjoy your army alot more if you love the models, love the fluff love the feel.

if you dont have this then the army will never live up to your expectations.

That's some good advice, Reflex.

Marky
26-08-2010, 09:21
Ok, thanks to everyone who has given info on the army, much appreciated.
I think ill still with them and see how it goes
Thanks again.
Marky

LonelyPath
26-08-2010, 18:05
I've been fielding Dark Angels for some time myself and love them, even using the older, some would say weaker codex (I'm a purist); fielding all forms of list available in the codex. Sammael is without doubt one of the greatest things in the book, not just on his jet bike, but also when taken in his Land Speeder. When used right he can be a real pain for the opponent so long as you avoid getting assaulted and never show your rear armour.

We also get good chaplains, which when combined with a assault-based veterans squad can ruin the plans of some opponents, even massed mobs of Ork boyz fall before all of those attacks when you have a flamer and a few power weapons spread around the squad.

Separately the Wings may not seem to be much, but combined they can be a force to be reckoned with. I favour small suicide Ravenwing squadrons (3 bikes and a attack bike), just using them to get the Deathwing down, giving those bike sergeants a power fist also gives them a 30" assault threat range to any tanks you might be up against.

Deathwing lists commonly feature 3 Land Raiders, but if including them I limit myself to 2, leaving more room for a few more toys.

Bear n mind that "newer" does not always mean "better", every time my Deathwing have faced off against Lonanwing I've ended up coming out on top.

self biased
26-08-2010, 20:14
I'm a fan of mortis dreadnoughts, myself. I run two with lascannons in my deathwing army. sure, for the points, i could get a third land raider, but two dreadnoughts are easier to hide and get cover saves with than a land raider.

LonelyPath
26-08-2010, 23:24
I'm a fan of mortis dreadnoughts, myself. I run two with lascannons in my deathwing army. sure, for the points, i could get a third land raider, but two dreadnoughts are easier to hide and get cover saves with than a land raider.

I love my Mortis dreads also. it's about time we got them back in the codex ;)

self biased
27-08-2010, 00:57
Mortis dreadnoughts were never in the codex. Their existence is rooted in Brother Saul from the 1999 Hunt for the Fallen battle tour where the was a dreadnought that had two twin-linked heavy bolters. If anyone has White Dwarf 238, that's me in the writeup.

LonelyPath
27-08-2010, 01:03
I thought they had been in one... I stand corrected ;)

I have that WD somewhere, I'll have to dig it out if I can find it :)

self biased
27-08-2010, 01:13
well, it's actually the american 238. the british one is different.

carlisimo
27-08-2010, 04:46
Ok gives me something to think about... I love thedark angel models and fluff so ill stick with them- as they Armstrong competitive as u say I can use it as a 'fun' army and usemy eldar as a.more competitive force

Could I use the standard marine codex rules for them?

As others have said, you can use the standard codex. But I'd recommend staying away from the Landspeeder Storm, since the Dark Angels are unlikely to get it in their next codex (which could be a while, but starting an army can be a long-term commitment!).

Their figures are certainly very cool.

paulymath
27-08-2010, 10:28
Hi,
I recently decided to start warhammer again and wnat to start a new army, I like the look of dark angels and want to know if they are any good? I would want to make a fairly large 5k+ army using a lot of ravenwing and deathwing with Sammael and Belial
So what are.good and bad about dark angels

I'm no expert. In fact I'm a total noob to WH40k. But, one thing I know is that you have like the look of the models you're collecting, otherwise it's going to be pretty damn hard to stick with painting a 5k army like you're proposing.

All armies are supposed to be at least semi-balanced out, and any imbalances can probably be made up with skill/strategy on the battle field, but if you don't enjoy building/painting your army then you'll never get it done in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is don't worry if they're supposedly "good". If you like them, pick them. YOU can make them good!

That's my thinking on it anyways.

LonelyPath
27-08-2010, 12:53
well, it's actually the american 238. the british one is different.

Oh well, that'll at least save me hours of hunting about in the attic for that issue ;)