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Freak Ona Leash
30-08-2010, 01:07
Hello all, wall of text incoming.

I've recently purchased about $300 in Chaos Space Marines. Mixed in with my remaining Space Marine bits, I've decided to make a Renegade Space Marine force. I know, I know. "Booooo, hiss. More Astartes!" Yeah, well blow it out yer backside. ;)

Anyways, I didn't want to do Khorne because it painting Red does not agree with me. I didn't want to do Slaanesh because while gun-guitar Marines is the most metal thing ever, I'm more of a blues and folk guy these days sadly :p And Tzeentch? I don't know. It was a toss-up between Thousand Sons and Nurgle. So I went with old Grandpa Nurgle.

Unfortunately, the whole "rot and ruin" motif does not appeal to me. Therefore, I needed a theme for the army. Nurgle is all about illness and decay right? Well, how about rather than physical/outward decay, I concentrate on inward/mental decay?

An army of mentally ill Astartes? Madness, you say! Well, not exactly mentally ill. More like Astartes that have had their faith absolutely destroyed, both in themselves and in their cause. They experience severe self-loathing and an odd mixture of extreme melancholy and choler. They embrace Nurgle and yet hate themselves for it, knowing that they are the betrayers and the betrayed. Therefore, Nurgle in his infinite kindness, chooses not to grace them with his multitude of Poxes and Rots. Instead he graces them with the inability to be rid of that self-loathing and in fact nurtures it. The former Loyalists soon loathe not only themselves but also their fellow Chaos worshippers and of course, the Imperium that abandoned them.

They seek to tear it down and rebuild it under the yoke of Chaos, so that the hate roiling deep in their souls is justified. They spread this incurable sense of hatred and despair to the plaents they visit, destroying them not only from without but within. They will not rest until the entire Imperium (and perhaps even their fellow renegades) realizes how wrong they were to leave these warriors to die, alone and unremembered.

They still resemble the shining paragons they once were, dressed in metallic plate and wielding their weapons with horrific skill. However, the problem I'm running into is modeling them. I wish to portray this sense of despair and mental anguish rather than the physical rot and corruption often associated with Nurgle.

I was thinking perhaps lots of chains and other signs of the penitent on them. I'm mixing in bits of regular, loyalist SM bits with various touches such as the aquila being hacked away at and their former chapter symbol being defiled. Any other ideas?

JollyGoodChap
30-08-2010, 01:15
From what you wrote I can imagine large puddles of vomit on the bases, big crazy eyes, self-harm etc. Sounds good, a nice interesting twist on an already interesting army :D

Dread Lime
30-08-2010, 03:00
An army like this would likely end using a good deal of very bleak imagery. Chains, hourglasses, flails and other iconography suggestive, penance despair, desolation or contrition would probably be common. Perhaps squared sackcloth hoods and improvised tabards would be appropriate as would defaced or damaged imperial insignia. The Empire Flagellants, blood angels death company as well as the Black Templars and Dark Angels upgrade sprues would be excellent sources of bits for such an army. I'd also recommend adding traces of rust or corrosion to their equipment to suggest neglect. Don't over do it, just enough to suggest that they're only doing the minimum maintenance to keep things operational or that they're a bit desperate in the supply department. The standard nurgle Iconography,sans plagues and rot, would of course have it's place. It might be a bit pricey to do on any extended basis, but the standard from the empire general combined with the scythe head with the roses from the Empire wizard would look quite good. For that matter, the fantasy kits have all sorts of bits that might be interesting to Chaos players.

It sounds like an interesting project. If you decide to post images of the army, I'd like to see them.:D

Dead7
30-08-2010, 04:46
dear god, emo mahreens. i think you should try to keep the bling to a minimum and just use a dark purple/ blue color scheme with maybe some metalic trim. the defiled chapter symbols sound good though. imo too many chains and crap like that would make them look bad. just focus on a depressing color scheme. also, non chain cc weps would probably fit the theme better if you care to convert that much. and if you can an apathetic pose for your hq would be fitting.

Monk813
30-08-2010, 07:13
and if you can an apathetic pose for your hq would be fitting.

Wow. I just had this great picture in my head for your commander. Give him the hood from the DA sprue as suggested (or just model it yourself) with the apathetic pose suggested previously with a single tear rolling down his face as he unenthusiastically gives the order to attack.

Now I know what you're thinking, "Heresy! Marines don't cry! Specially traitor Marines! They's the tuff ones!" And normally I'd agree with you, but when you have a group of self loathing traitors who can't seem to find a place to fit in anywhere, and having that feeling fostered (heck, probly enhanced) by Nurgle, it does kinda make sense.

Heck, put in that light I kinda wanna give'em a hug :D

metro_gnome
30-08-2010, 07:28
hmmm...
I was thinking of doing something like this in order to participate in FWs Badab war stuff with a chaos warband...

Take a splinter of the Lamenters chapter that didn't repent and escaped into the malestrom with the Astral Claws...
only to witness the Claws sign a pact with forces of ruin...

After escaping the Claws... these Lamenters enter ultimate despair... and their strike crusier drifts endlessly in the malestrom...
while the lamenters are so postrate with grief and unable to move for weeks (i was gonna be fluffy and say 7 weeks)...
before papa nurgle found them and forgave them and blessed them with crawling heebeegees and what not...
I was gonna call them the Mourners...

anyway it is a way of justifying your chapter...
the only problem is the fact that lamentors are yellow...
Which kinda works well for nurgle... but doesn't work well for me...

Zweischneid
30-08-2010, 11:34
For what it's worth, I always felt the rules for Plaque Marines and Thousand Sons were upside down in the first place.

Rubik Marines should be tough to kill as they quite literally feel no pain and you'll need to shoot the armour to pieces, rather than just penetrating it to kill a vital organ. Being kind of robotic in their movement, they should have a lower initiative.

Plaque Marines should have some ammo/weapon that wounds easily (poison, plague) and/or ignores armour due to corrosive and/or infectious effects. They should also be slow and purposeful because.. well.. they're not healthy enough to make quick dashes and the like. Why being sick should make you tougher is kinda beyond me.

Spoik
30-08-2010, 12:18
Of course being sick can make you stronger! I know how it is - you are sickly, wheezing, always picked last for sporting activities. Just put your faith in Father Nurgle, embrace the inevitability of rot and decay, and become far, far stronger than your tormentors, inside and out.

Membership of the Cult of Nurgle is permanent and non-refundable. Parts of you may fall off.

Back on topic, this is 40k, so lets throw subtlety out the window. I think your marines should have anguished expressions, lash themselves and one another, and cry tears of blood.

Wishing
30-08-2010, 12:24
Your description certainly paints a very cool and evocative picture. Getting a bunch of modeller's chain and wrapping it around parts of your marines to get a theme going would be a really nice touch. How good it would look obviously depends entirely on how you choose to paint them, not the background. If you want them to be nurgle marines, I would probably use some nurgle-related colour (green, brown or white are good), but just skip the bloated and rotting flesh that we usually see and keep their skin and armour looking relatively normal.

Wishing
30-08-2010, 12:28
Why being sick should make you tougher is kinda beyond me.

From a realism standpoint, I agree. But I think the idea that GW are going for is that champions of nurgle have leprous and necrotic skin and therefore feel no pain, similar to how you shoot a zombie and it just keeps going. If you think of them as having a shield of zombie skin around them, not just being guys with TB, it makes fantasy-sense.

Zweischneid
30-08-2010, 12:42
From a realism standpoint, I agree. But I think the idea that GW are going for is that champions of nurgle have leprous and necrotic skin and therefore feel no pain, similar to how you shoot a zombie and it just keeps going. If you think of them as having a shield of zombie skin around them, not just being guys with TB, it makes fantasy-sense.

Still makes more sense for Thousand Sons. Because, frankly, they don't mind getting a Boltershell between the eyes. It's just one more hole and they keep on walking.

stroller
30-08-2010, 12:44
If the idea works for you go for it. In my head however pus & nurgle go together - so - maybe - sackcloth (battered dark angel style to cover up the shame - nearly...)?

Born Again
30-08-2010, 12:46
Don't really have any thing else to suggest, but I think it sounds like an excellent idea, and I demand a painting log!

Whitehorn
30-08-2010, 12:48
You have some fun ideas here.

I also wanted to deviate my Nurgle force, inspired by a couple of pictures of Mortarion - skeletal appearance.

There's nothing prettier than the purity of death. How about coupling their mental illness with true decadence of body and litter them with imagery of the reaper.

Hunger
30-08-2010, 13:05
An army of mentally ill Astartes?

Nothing like plumbing the depths of bad taste in the name of Chaos!




Any other ideas?

Your troops could have the 'Alzheimers' special rule: Whenever a squad fails a morale check, roll the scatter dice to determine which board edge they fall back toward, as they can't always remember which one is theirs.

Manic Depressive Dreadnoughts? Essentially function the same as regular CSM dreadnoughts, just alter the description in your codex entry with a biro.

How about a Rain Man inspired 'Red Thirst' equivalent? At the start of your turn roll a D6: On a 1 the squad may do nothing as its members sit on the ground clutching their knees and rock back and forth while mumbling strings of numbers.

All squads could have a 'Parkinsons Modifier' on all shooting over 12", the shaking effect essentially reducing the shooters BS by 1 over this range.

All units suffering from the 'Claustrophobia' special rule must successfully pass a Ld test to embark in a transport or enter a building. The reverse is true for Agoraphobic units wishing to leave a transport of building.

Transports may take the 'Padded Interior' upgrade, which protects the passengers from harm in the event of a 'Vehicle Explodes' damage result.

New items of wargear could be added to the armoury: How about a Strait Jacket - available to Aspiring Champions, the Jacket converts all close combat attacks into a single headbutt attack at +3 Strength, however the model may no longer use any kind of weapon, including grenades.

Independent characters may exchange their bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon for Lithium Pills, which will negate the effects of any one special rule on a 4,5 or 6, rolled at the start of the turn.

Alternatively a squad may be given Electro-Shock Therapy for +5pts per model, permanently curing them of the effects of all special rules. However, at the start of every turn, roll a D6. If a 1 is rolled, the warriors have gone temporarily insane, and the squad fights a round of close combat against itself. Each model in the squad makes its full number of attacks against the rest of the unit.

Go for it - its a blank, non-PC canvas!

Freak Ona Leash
30-08-2010, 13:39
Nothing like plumbing the depths of bad taste in the name of Chaos!





Your troops could have the 'Alzheimers' special rule: Whenever a squad fails a morale check, roll the scatter dice to determine which board edge they fall back toward, as they can't always remember which one is theirs.

Manic Depressive Dreadnoughts? Essentially function the same as regular CSM dreadnoughts, just alter the description in your codex entry with a biro.

How about a Rain Man inspired 'Red Thirst' equivalent? At the start of your turn roll a D6: On a 1 the squad may do nothing as its members sit on the ground clutching their knees and rock back and forth while mumbling strings of numbers.

All squads could have a 'Parkinsons Modifier' on all shooting over 12", the shaking effect essentially reducing the shooters BS by 1 over this range.

All units suffering from the 'Claustrophobia' special rule must successfully pass a Ld test to embark in a transport or enter a building. The reverse is true for Agoraphobic units wishing to leave a transport of building.

Transports may take the 'Padded Interior' upgrade, which protects the passengers from harm in the event of a 'Vehicle Explodes' damage result.

New items of wargear could be added to the armoury: How about a Strait Jacket - available to Aspiring Champions, the Jacket converts all close combat attacks into a single headbutt attack at +3 Strength, however the model may no longer use any kind of weapon, including grenades.

Independent characters may exchange their bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon for Lithium Pills, which will negate the effects of any one special rule on a 4,5 or 6, rolled at the start of the turn.

Alternatively a squad may be given Electro-Shock Therapy for +5pts per model, permanently curing them of the effects of all special rules. However, at the start of every turn, roll a D6. If a 1 is rolled, the warriors have gone temporarily insane, and the squad fights a round of close combat against itself. Each model in the squad makes its full number of attacks against the rest of the unit.

Go for it - its a blank, non-PC canvas!

Humorous as this is, I'll have to pass. I'm not certain how this is in bad taste either. If you read the rest of the post, you'd know they aren't literally mentally ill. Yes, extreme self-loathing could be associated with depression or bipolar disorder and probably myriad other conditions but that's not really the point.

But anyways, thanks to everyone for their worthwhile contributions to this thread, humorous or not ;)

Wishing
30-08-2010, 15:40
Still makes more sense for Thousand Sons. Because, frankly, they don't mind getting a Boltershell between the eyes. It's just one more hole and they keep on walking.


I guess that's why they got two wounds, so they're both tough to take down, just in different ways. Nurgle gets toughness, Rubrics get wounds.

I know they changed that later on, but it goes to show that they had the right idea to begin with.

Warmaster Bill
31-08-2010, 00:32
Rubrics actually get a 4 up invulnerable save not two wounds. Maybe you're thinking of the last codex?

Hunger
31-08-2010, 00:44
Humorous as this is, I'll have to pass. I'm not certain how this is in bad taste either. If you read the rest of the post, you'd know they aren't literally mentally ill. Yes, extreme self-loathing could be associated with depression or bipolar disorder and probably myriad other conditions but that's not really the point.

But anyways, thanks to everyone for their worthwhile contributions to this thread, humorous or not ;)

Lol, I'm sorry, I don't really think its in bad taste, and I did read the rest of your post - the 'mentally ill Astartes' description just made me laugh! :)

Wishing
31-08-2010, 11:51
Rubrics actually get a 4 up invulnerable save not two wounds. Maybe you're thinking of the last codex?

That's why I said I know that they changed it later on. And at least an invulnerable save still suggests toughness. But this is kind of off topic with regards to the mentally ill marines. I still want to see pictures. :)