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frogmen
31-08-2010, 01:03
I played fantasy before 40 k and i liked armies like chaos dwarfs or dogs of war because they where not usually seen at my local game shop. I was wondering if there are any armies like that in 40k that are more of an underground kinda army. I know bloodangels used to be like that and i know of an imperial guard tank army but i was wondering if you guys know of any.

Lothlanathorian
31-08-2010, 01:05
It all depends on where you live, man.

frogmen
31-08-2010, 01:09
What do you mean

Weaver
31-08-2010, 01:14
Just like fantasy, the 'underground', as you say, 40k armies are often the ones that involve lots of conversion, or have been neglected for a long time. So I might propose armies like Adeptus Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, Harlequin Troupes, and even, to a lesser degree, Inquisitorial Armies.

Lothlanathorian is right though, it depends whole lot on your local metagame. If you're playing in an area where 9/10 people play Marines, an army as relatively popular as Craftworld Eldar might be considered 'underground',

frogmen
31-08-2010, 01:17
do the adeptus mechanicus have theyre own rules?

Weaver
31-08-2010, 01:21
not for years. They had rules in 2E, and a ruleset written by Tim Huckleberry for early 3E. Just like Stealer 'Cults. People use all sorts of rules to represent them, from Imperial Guard to Space Marines to Witch Hunters and on.

mrln68
31-08-2010, 01:22
do the adeptus mechanicus have theyre own rules?

No official ones. The closest they ever got was way back...way, way back...way, way, way back when there were a handful of Tech-priest variants. I don't ever even recall them being an alt list in Citadel Journal or similar magazines.

frogmen
31-08-2010, 01:24
Then how would one go aboout playing said army.

DuskRaider
31-08-2010, 01:26
The problem with underground armies is, you'll never really see them in gaming groups unless they're established friends or a relaxed scene. Homebrew codices, old ones such as Genestealer Cult, Lost and the Damned, and Forge World lists aren't very common, at least in my area. When it comes to the term "underground" in my area, it usually means more difficult armies that require finesse or ones that aren't very popular, such as Dark Eldar, Daemons, and Inquisition.

Weaver
31-08-2010, 01:27
I don't ever even recall them being an alt list in Citadel Journal or similar magazines.

Tim Huckleberry's 'Test Rules' (http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/downloads/codex_adeptusmechanicus.pdf)

Sternguard777
31-08-2010, 01:27
you normally play with your entire army as count-as with certain units stats and rules borrowed as necessary.

frogmen
31-08-2010, 01:29
Ok so there arent any like official codices in a pdf or something like that like there are in wahammer.

Stormfather
31-08-2010, 01:38
Different armies will be popular in different places. However, the 'stronger' armies are usually the best represented, since people tend to pick them up when the codexes are released. Older armies are often shelved.


My personal opinion on some of the less common choices that still have published, undeniably official codices (bear in mind, OPINION)...

+ Daemon Hunters and Witch Hunters are both somewhat obscure; their codexes are still legal but aren't being printed (in English, at least). A few Witch Hunter kits have been pulled within the last few months, but occasionally pop up on ebay. No reliable word on what GW has in store for them. Both armies have a lot of cool choices a good models, but be forewarned- these armies are almost purely metal, no newfangled plastics for the inquisition players!

+ Black Templars are a brutally cool army, but not very common, since many people feel that they're eclipsed by the other marine codexes. They have a few highly competitive choices, but suffer from highly priced vehicles and an outdated codex that references a lot of rules from previous editions of 40k and requires a fair amount of reading between the lines (for instance, the codex doesn't have the rules for Drop Pods, seemingly implies that the EC can't join crusader squads when this is not the case, etc) - one game with the BTs against a rules lawyer and you'll never want to play 40k again. However, nothing short of a Titan is going to stop a Land Raider Crusader full of Terminator Sword Brethren.

+ Dark Eldar are, at the moment, largely unseen, but they've got a new book coming in November and might surge in popularity. I've never seen the Dark Eldar, don't know how they play or what their models even look like.

+ Necrons are easy to paint and enjoy a good model range, but are surprisingly uncommon, mainly because their rules really haven't aged very well in the years since the codex was published. Plus, the way the list is set up with one expensive HQ and one expensive troops choice, you have absolutely no choice about how the first 460 points of your army are spent- they're so un-competitive and un-interesting that I'd call them borderline unplayable at 500 points. However, they can be a lot of fun in a bigger game, where you can field a more diverse army, complete with Destroyers, Monoliths, and Immortals.

+ Tyranids are much more common than those I've mentioned previously, but not nearly as common as they once were. Their new codex was very different than the previous edition, and left a lot of players with a lot of now-uncompetitive models. Thus, a lot of people shelved their 'Nids.

+ Daemons of Chaos are pretty rare, as well. Not sure why, but then again I've never played against them so can't really give an informed opinion.

If that's not what you're looking for, try to track down an old copy of 'Eye of Terror' for a few standalone armylists, or 'Codex Catachans' for a cc-oriented guard army. Or, check out the Forgeworld 'Imperial Armor' series for a few variant lists, representing different Imperial Guard regiments as well as chaos traitors.

EDIT
Eye of Terror has...
+ Spacewolves 13th Company
+ Lost and the Damned
+ Cadians
+ Ulthwe Strike Force

Hunger
31-08-2010, 02:04
I played fantasy before 40 k and i liked armies like chaos dwarfs or dogs of war because they where not usually seen at my local game shop. I was wondering if there are any armies like that in 40k that are more of an underground kinda army. I know bloodangels used to be like that and i know of an imperial guard tank army but i was wondering if you guys know of any.

Blood Angels and IG Tank armies are not unusual, and have never really been 'underground'. IG always used to be about the tanks, and BA were always a mainstream Marine army, right from the word go.

If you want true 'underground' armies, with experimental rules and a DIY ethos, google some of the following for further information:

Lost And The Damned (my army, use Forgeworld Chaos Renegades for extra kudos)
Genestealer Cult
Adeptus Arbites
Adeptus Custodes
Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Xenos Inquisitorial Forces
Adeptus Mechanicus
Dark Mechanicus
Eldar Harlequins
Squats

Alternatively, the mainstream armies (those with codices) can be used in many different ways to represent a multitude of different armies.

Special Character Defined Marine Army (Vulkan Hestan to create Salamanders etc)
All Terminator Dark Angels (Deathwing)
All Mounted Dark Angels (Ravenwing) or White Scars
Alternative IG (the basic IG army can be set up to represent a plethora of different forces such as...)
-----> Traitor Guard
-----> Planetary Defence Force
-----> Cults of all kinds, including Chaos- and Necron-worshippers
-----> Titan Legion
-----> Hive Gang
-----> Rogue Trader's Personal Army

In a more generic sense, if you're simply after an army you don't see all the time, you're after one of the lesser used mainstream ones.

Necrons
Eldar
Dark Eldar (especially an all Wych slaver army)
Sisters Of Battle
Tau
Chaos Daemons
Grey Knights (ok, they are Marines, but a rarer and not devoid of character like the other kinds)

I would say Orks and Tyranids are the most popular of the xenos armies currently, and Space Wolves and Blood Angels are very much 'flavour of the month', having had new codices recently.

Hope that helps!

frogmen
31-08-2010, 02:07
Thanks alot guys but i need a tourny approved army

Hunger
31-08-2010, 02:17
No probs - the second and third parts of my list are all tourney approved. My advice to you is to take a look on lexicanum and GW's website at each army and pick the one that appeals to you the most. Every army can field a strong tournament list, but you'll have the most fun collecting and playing with the army your gut told you was the coolest.

The reason I chose to collect a Lost And The Damned army was that I like fighting with every element of Chaos in my army - Daemons, IG and Chaos Marines. I took part in a tournament this weekend, and chose to use just the IG part (obviously using all 3 parts would have been against the rules), however when I play my friends at home I use the lot without restriction, because we don't care too much for tournament rules in my gaming group.

Whatever you choose to collect have fun, take some photos and make a log to show us.

frogmen
31-08-2010, 02:22
Thanks guys i think im going to do an alternative mech marines any opinions
Like an "adeptus mechanus" but legal

Lothlanathorian
31-08-2010, 02:53
Blood Angels AV13 spam. You can take 6 Predators in a Blood Angels list and tanks using Rhino bodies are all Fast vehicles. Otherwise, either standard Codex Marines or Blood Angels will work for a mech Marine list.

I would recommend going to GW's site and looking them both over.

the_gobbo_king
31-08-2010, 06:48
For that sort of "Adeptus Mechanicus" army, I would go for Codex Witch Hunters or Codex Deamonhunters:

Inquisitors: Tech Magos
Priests: Machine Priests
Sisters of Battle: Praetorians/Protectors from "Mechanicum"
Storm Troopers: Skiitari
Penitent Engines: Battle Robots
Eversor Assasin: Tech Assasin
Land Raiders: "
Chimeras: "
Rhinos: "
Arco-flaggelents: "
Sisters Repentia: Crazy Chainsaw Robots
Throne of Judgement: Scary Walker Thing!

Scott.

ForgottenLore
31-08-2010, 07:04
Daemonhunters is likely to be outdated early next year, however.

frogmen
31-08-2010, 22:59
I never even thought of witch hunters. can they be used as allies in a spacemarine armies.

Spyral
31-08-2010, 23:13
Check out this guys adeptus mechanus (http://www.warseer.com/forums/album.php?albumid=31) army. It's Codex marines I think. Having seen it IRL it's pretty awesome

Weaver
31-08-2010, 23:15
I never even thought of witch hunters. can they be used as allies in a spacemarine armies.

Yes. For now. Though Sisters of Battle make an excellent, cheaper (points-wise) Space Marine substitute, and almost as competent (oftentimes more, by virtue of faith points)