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View Full Version : Had the fellowship not split up..



Marsekay
08-10-2010, 20:14
After reading the books and watching the movies, i was always dissapointed with the splitting of the fellowship.(i like the group parts with all the cameraderie.)
however i understand why it was done, what do you think would have happened if they had stayed together? would they have made it?

Londinium
08-10-2010, 22:13
They would have inevitably split up anyways. It was pushing it for Sam and Frodo to infiltrate into Mordor right up to Mount Doom, let alone in a band of nine including a couple humans, an elf and a dwarf all armed to the teeth. While they might have done so in a less tragic way (what with Boromir's death and Frodo/Sam having to leave without telling anyone) it still would have happened.

Whitwort Stormbringer
08-10-2010, 23:45
It's been some time since I've read the books, so I can't recall for sure how they go, but in the movies it's strongly implied that had the Fellowship not eventually split apart, the Ring would have dismantled them anyways through temptation.

Although no one can truly resist the Ring's power (other than Tom Bombadil, perhaps), Hobbits are extremely resilient to its effects for some reason, and therefore if anyone other than Sam and Frodo had continued with the quest they probably would have attempted to take the ring sooner or later, just as Boromir did. The real strength of all good characters in the series (Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn, and even Faramir in the books) is in simply not taking the Ring in the first place, because they know that they cannot wield it.

Iracundus
09-10-2010, 04:12
The full sized Fellowship would have been much higher profile and easier for the forces of Mordor to spot. I don't think it would have managed to sneak into Mordor and would have been surrounded and destroyed.

Nuada
09-10-2010, 13:28
Although no one can truly resist the Ring's power (other than Tom Bombadil, perhaps)

I like it in the council when they are debating just giving the One Ring to Tom Bombadil, because the enemy wouldn't be able to touch him. Gandalf advises them not to do it because he thinks Tom will loose the ring, or throw it away.

I think they also consider sending some elite elves on the quest. A small skirmishing force led by Glorfindel.

Commissar Vaughn
09-10-2010, 13:54
Well in the book Aragorn mentions what he thought the original plan was after Lorien:
That Gandalf and Frodo continue on with the ring, while he and Boromir head for Minas Tirith.

Boromir always intended to leave anyway, but Aragorn is left indecisive after losing Gandalf. Luckily, the orcs make the choice for him!

From that, and assuming no casualties along the way, I reckon only Aragorn and Boromir would have headed for Minas Tirith, the rest would have carried on with Frodo.

Iracundus
09-10-2010, 17:11
I like it in the council when they are debating just giving the One Ring to Tom Bombadil, because the enemy wouldn't be able to touch him. Gandalf advises them not to do it because he thinks Tom will loose the ring, or throw it away.


It's lose. A loose ring can result in you losing it.


It is not just the risk of Tom Bombadil losing it. Even if he didn't lose it, the ring would still exist and thus so would Sauron. It is clear that even without the ring, Sauron would still eventually have won as he had enough forces to crush Minas Tirith through attrition if nothing else. The Witch King's force was just one of several armies.

That is why the ring could not have remained at Rivendell either, even if one were to temporarily ignore the effects of the evil temptation exerted by the ring. Rivendell or Bombadil's realm would have eventually become a tiny oasis amid Sauron's conquests and in turn they too would have been overwhelmed.

It is fortunate indeed that the ring had not rolled in the river down to the sea and beyond recovery. Otherwise there would have been no way to significantly strike back at Sauron.

The Marshel
10-10-2010, 15:19
makes you wonder why sauron didn't just chuck it in the sea in the first place

R-Love
10-10-2010, 20:52
makes you wonder why sauron didn't just chuck it in the sea in the first place

Uh, because He wanted it? When you spend massive amounts of time and manpower looking for something, especially something that will make you incredibly powerful and has your essence tied into it, your first thought is rarely "I'm gonna chuck this in the ocean!" :D

Intrepid Adventurer
11-10-2010, 07:39
That is the reason the quest to mount Doom succeeded: it was only until the last possible moment that Sauron could imagine his enemies would try to destroy the Ring, instead of using it against him. He would never have thrown it away himself.

DeadInTheHead
11-10-2010, 11:14
When they're debating what to do on Parth Galen the majority of the company favour going first to Minas Tirith, for various reasons. So if the followship had stayed together I think it would only have been by convincing Frodo to go to Minas Tirith.

Once there I think the madness that was consuming Boromir would have caused him to seize the ring, and in the bloodshed that followed probably the whole fellowship would have been slain, possibly along with Faramir, the Prince of Dol Amroth and basically anyone that tried to stop him.

The factions of Denethor and Boromir would have come to blows, the Dark Lord would work out what had happened and laid Minas Tirith under siege until he had reclaimed the ring. Gandalf would have been too far away to change things and would basically be trying to save as many of the Rohirrim and other free people as possible, probably sacrificing himself into the bargain.

Edit: just noticed, it's my eleventy-first post ;)

Khamul
12-10-2010, 00:57
Yup- Ring madness would have taken Boromir, and/or other member of the fellowship, said member would take ring, challenge sauron, get squashed and sauron would become unstoppable. Not so much the Happily Ever After ending.

Rhamag
12-10-2010, 01:30
I do like the alternative ending where Frodo and Sam climb onto the eagles, fly to Mt Doom, ditch the Ring, then get back in time for tea and biscuits.

Iracundus
12-10-2010, 06:44
Yup- Ring madness would have taken Boromir, and/or other member of the fellowship, said member would take ring, challenge sauron, get squashed and sauron would become unstoppable. Not so much the Happily Ever After ending.

In Tolkien's behind the scenes writings, it is shown that it is conceivable that perhaps Boromir, Denethor, Galadriel, or Gandalf could have used the One Ring and actually have overcome Sauron. Gandalf and Galadriel in particular would have been prime candidates given their higher levels of innate power. However this would ultimately have led to evil, even if initially in the guise of good and light. Galadriel's temptation at the mirror scene is her rejecting the Ring and the temptation of glory. Tolkien wrote that Gandalf taking the Ring and triumphing over Sauron might have been even worse because a corrupted Gandalf would make the appearance and acts of doing good become hateful. That is, he would have come to coerce others into "doing good" instead of inducing or encouraging to do them of their own free will, and in doing so made such acts not good in the moral sense since they would have been unfree acts.

Denethor triumphing would have made Gondor into an imperial power, and Denethor's biases and pride would have led to harsh punitive treatment rather than Elessar's mercy for the other human cultures that fought for Sauron. This too would ultimately have come to evil for Gondor would eventually be perceived as a tyrannical empire.

DeadInTheHead
12-10-2010, 10:19
I liked what Tolkien had to say in the foreword about how in the confusion of the times Saruman would have found the information he needed to make his own ring (him being a Maiar of Aule, like Sauron, that would make sense).

Khamul
12-10-2010, 22:06
There's a cheerful thought. One Lord of the Ring is enough!!!
As a Isengard collecter though, that would be sweet!!! Saruman's already one of the best Epic Heroes of War of the Ring.