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Khamul
20-12-2010, 22:52
Hi everyone, I'm considering starting 40k (up till now I've only played WOTR and LOTR Skirmish) and I'd like some advice on the different army's strengths. I'm after a tough, hard hitting army- almost a entirely elite army. What 40k army fits this description? Thanks in advance.

WolfGuardChris
21-12-2010, 02:26
Grey Knights.

AngryAngel
21-12-2010, 02:27
From that description, your looking at say Blood Angels, perhaps the New Grey Knights when they come out eventually. Perhaps a set up for the space wolves of Loganwing, or a bunch of terminators in Deathwing.

However the most competitive would be blood angels at the moment.

LonelyPath
21-12-2010, 13:20
If you wait a few months, the new Grey Knights codex should be out and from the sounds of the rumours they should be even more elite than they already are.

Khamul
22-12-2010, 04:55
looking at GW's website, I've decided to have a stab at Blood Angels- they seem to be my type of army. Can anyone who fields a Blood Angels army advise me on the models I'm looking at getting and suggest a fairly low-cost character that would fit in with my force.


Blood Angels Codex

Space Marine Battleforce:
Space Marine Tactical Squad (10 Space Marines)
Space Marine Combat Squad (5 Space Marines)
Space Marine Scout Squad (5 Space Marine Scouts)
Space Marine Assault Squad (5 Space Marines with Jump Packs)
Space Marine Rhino (1 Space Marine Rhino)
(I'm planning to trade the Combat Squad to a friend for a Assault Squad the same size!)

Space marine Dreadnought (Some heavy firepower)




Anything I've missed? If so, I need all the help I can get as I have no idea how to play 40k. Thanks in advance!

massey
22-12-2010, 05:25
First, who are you going to be playing against? What army do they have? How large an army do they have? Our advice will probably be different depending on your answers. If you're only going to play against your buddy who has 1000 points of Orks, you'll need different stuff than if you're going to join a group who regularly play hardcore tournament games.

The thing to remember about Space Marines is that most of their characters can just be built from the regular plastic kits. It can be as simple as giving a guy a sword and painting his armor gold instead of red, and you've got your Captain. So if you're tight on money, don't worry too much about buying a metal figure for your army commander. An extra plastic dude will work just fine.

The Assault on Black Reach starter set is an excellent deal. You get a Captain model, 10 Marines, 5 Terminators, and a Dreadnaught. You get them a lot cheaper than if you tried to buy them seperately. You also get a rulebook, dice, and various other things you'll need. Plus you can usually trade away the Orks that come with it to somebody else in exchange for more Marines. You can supplement that with a Space Marine Battleforce. It's got 15 Marines, 5 Assault Marines, a Rhino, and 5 Scouts. Combined with the Black Reach set, you've got a great core for an army. Then you've just got to buy the Blood Angels codex.

Just keep in mind that there's a difference between building a 40K starter army to learn the game with and building a top-tier tournament army. Those are normally relatively expensive, and they are flavors of the month, good until the next book is released and then the power gamers jump on the "next big thing". The army I've listed above is relatively inexpensive (nothing in 40K is actually inexpensive), will introduce you to the game, and will be fun to play as long as you aren't running into a bunch of guys who are treating every game as a tournament.

LonelyPath
22-12-2010, 15:16
If you're going for Blood Angels then I do suggest getting 1 box each of the Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. not to necessarily use as they are meant to, but for conversions and stand in models. Sanguinary look great as commanders and squad sergeants so they stand out more (you can swap out the jump packs on them if you wish to) and the Death Company comes with alot of weapon options from power weapons to hand flamers to thunder hammers.

Buying those will bump up the cost of your army, but they do allow you to add more models and add a little variety in appearance to what you have in the army. I've seen quite a few people by Sang Guard just to make up into 5 different commanders that they can switch between for their own armies.

As with what massey said, the Black Reach and Battleforce start is a good way to do things, you'll instantly have at least 1000 points of models from those 2 purchases alone. If you hunt around you can also buy just the rule book and Marines from the Black Reach set for relatively little money on bits sites, Ebay and other such places :)

Khamul
22-12-2010, 21:28
My opponents will be fielding Tau, Space Marines, Necrons, and Tyranids. Possibly also Space Wolves. What sort of army would I need against those armies?

Disciple of the Arvadan
22-12-2010, 22:19
Space Marine Rhino (1 Space Marine Rhino)

Take a Razorback. More expensive, but more options.

Blood Angels are a good army, Tau and Necrons won't be a problem...just assault them (but beware of the C'tans...) and they're dead meat/metal. Use fire with Tyranids (I mean laser fire, or krak missiles), and take advantage of your mobility with Space Marines.
The Wolves may be a problem. Be sure to always engage them at your conditions, you can beat them in close combat but it won't be so easy.

Khamul
22-12-2010, 22:53
On Trademe (the New Zealand Ebay equivalent) I can get pretty much the Black Reach & Space Marine Battleforce:

1 Rhino
1 Dreadnought
10 Tactical marines
10 Tactical marines
5 Tactical Marines
5 Assault marines
5 Scouts
5 Terminators- ????????
40k Rulebook
Blood Angels Codex
Dice & Templates

for NZ$380. If I cut out the Terminators it goes down to NZ$300. The Terminators aren't a vital part of the force, are they? As in I could live without them, as they are expensive and I have a small budget. As my force grows, I'll probably get Terminators and Death Company and whatnot.
What medium power, medium points Blood Angels character could I convert?
Also, what is the difference between a Dreadnought and a Venerable Dreadnought?
Thanks in advance!!

Darklordsauron
23-12-2010, 03:24
Personaly I think orks are the best units in the whole entire galaxy, get them if you have any balls:wtf: bllaladada

Disciple of the Arvadan
23-12-2010, 09:24
Also, what is the difference between a Dreadnought and a Venerable Dreadnought?

The Venerable has higer WS and BS, and it's harder to kill. But if I remember correctly the Blood Angels cannot field it.

@Darklordsauron: I think you misquoted...

massey
23-12-2010, 16:42
On Trademe (the New Zealand Ebay equivalent) I can get pretty much the Black Reach & Space Marine Battleforce:

1 Rhino
1 Dreadnought
10 Tactical marines
10 Tactical marines
5 Tactical Marines
5 Assault marines
5 Scouts
5 Terminators- ????????
40k Rulebook
Blood Angels Codex
Dice & Templates

for NZ$380. If I cut out the Terminators it goes down to NZ$300. The Terminators aren't a vital part of the force, are they? As in I could live without them, as they are expensive and I have a small budget. As my force grows, I'll probably get Terminators and Death Company and whatnot.
What medium power, medium points Blood Angels character could I convert?
Also, what is the difference between a Dreadnought and a Venerable Dreadnought?
Thanks in advance!!

Wow. That's psychotically expensive. Try buying from an online retailer in the US and having it shipped to you. I'll bet you could save a huge amount. For some reason, GW thinks the NZ dollar is worthless. Buying from their website, it looks like their stuff is twice as expensive in NZ as it is here. Shipping can't be that much. I'd also suggest buying Assault on Black Reach itself, instead of paying a bitz store to break it apart and sell you it in pieces. If you're buying all the marine stuff as well as the dice and the templates, you're not going to save any money and you aren't going to get any orks. The best solution for that is usually to get a friend who wants the orks, and split it with him.

As far as the rest of the questions, the purpose of a good starter set should be to give you a good feel for the game. Terminators aren't necessary, but you'd still probably like to have them. It gives you some variety. My suggestions weren't made to give you a specific army list, more to give you a good force to build on.

Fact is, if you go up against a hardcore tournament list led by a player who knows what he's doing, you're going to lose. You won't have the anti-tank firepower to deal with a guy who brings 5 Land Raiders. You just won't. If somebody out there spends a couple thousand dollars on his army, he's going to have things you can't counter if you bought a starter army for two hundred bucks. So my suggested purchases weren't to make you a badass, it was to give you a good army to learn to play the game.

Khamul
23-12-2010, 20:12
Wow. That's psychotically expensive. Try buying from an online retailer in the US and having it shipped to you. I'll bet you could save a huge amount.
Ok, can anyone suggest a good online US retailer?

Omens
23-12-2010, 22:39
Trademe can have some good deals, but mostly not. Buy from the uk, by far the cheapest option for kiwis in the region of 1/2 the nz gamesworkshop retail price :)

Use either of these two webstores:
http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/index.php

Darklordsauron
23-12-2010, 22:44
@Disciple of the Arvadan, yeah lol. just being stupid... my apologies... :)

Darklordsauron
23-12-2010, 22:44
how do you best kill blood angels with orks?

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
23-12-2010, 22:55
My opponents will be fielding Tau, Space Marines, Necrons, and Tyranids. Possibly also Space Wolves. What sort of army would I need against those armies?

Before reading further or taking anyone's advice on a forum to seriously, I suggest playing a few games. Borrow a friends army, learn the rules and see how different armies play. It'll give you a better idea of what works, what type of army you like and you'll have some of your own experiance to draw on when deciding how you want to build your force. There is a lot of good advice that can be found online, but alot of negativity and just as many people with no idea what they are talking about.


I always like to take a balanced approach to army building. It looks like you will have a nice variety of opponents (horde -> elite). The possible builds for each of those armies can vary quite a bit, so without specifics, I don't think anyone can tell you what to do other than take a list that is balanced enough to handle anything.

With what you have listed, the terminators are probably going to be your hardest hitting unit to start. They are not "must haves," but some people like to use thunderhammer / storm shield terminators due to their durability.

How do you plan on arming your terminators, tac squads and assault squads? The Blood Angel's assault squads are troops and can take 2 meltaguns. With their mobility, that might be a good choice for you to ensure you have some tank-hunting capability. For Tac squads, arm your sgt. with a combi-bolter to complement the special weapon you take (i.e. if you use a flamer, give the sgt a combi-flamer). It increases the punch of the squad.

With only a rhino and dreadnaught, you are fine to start with in smaller battles, but will be light on vehicles as you expand. It's best to either use more than a few or no vehicles. One or two will draw all of your opponents anti-tank weapons, and they will not last long in a larger battle. Not too important now, but something to think about as you expand.

Darklordsauron
24-12-2010, 06:37
Before reading further or taking anyone's advice on a forum to seriously...

With what you have listed, the terminators are probably going to be your hardest hitting unit to start. They are not "must haves," but some people like to use thunderhammer / storm shield terminators due to their durability.

For Tac squads, arm your sgt. with a combi-bolter to complement the special weapon you take (i.e. if you use a flamer, give the sgt a combi-flamer). It increases the punch of the squad.

It's best to either use more than a few or no vehicles. One or two will draw all of your opponents anti-tank weapons, and they will not last long in a larger battle.
hang on there bud, your saying don't listen to advice 'till you've played:shifty: BUT... bla bla bla bla bla... :wtf: :eyebrows:

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
24-12-2010, 13:46
hang on there bud, your saying don't listen to advice 'till you've played:shifty: BUT... bla bla bla bla bla... :wtf: :eyebrows:

Yup. :)

Giving 40k army list advice to someone who never played is like giving an Amish person advice on how to write SQL queries.

With that said, he can still refer back after playing some games. ;)


(For those outside of the U.S., the Amish are a group of people in the state of PA that live without modern technology for religious reasons)

Grand Master Raziel
24-12-2010, 14:27
@Khamul: I can see you're looking at getting Assault on Black Reach and the Space Marine Battleforce, which is an excellent way to start! Swapping the extra 5 Tac Marines for another Assault Squad is a good idea, too. Plan on fielding your 10 Assault Marines as one 10-man squad. That'll free up a power fist for one of your Tac Squads (the other is sort of stuck with his pistol+ccw loadout due to the nature of AoBR Marines). LonelyPath has some good advice on getting box sets for the bitz, and LGBC gave good advice on the wisdom of borrowing an army to try out, if such is possible for you.

To answer your question regarding what character to start with, you can't go too far wrong with either a BA Librarian or the HQ-level Chaplain. You'll want to give a jump pack to the Chaplain (GW makes a jump pack Chaplain mini), the Librarian can get away without because of the Wings of Sanguinus power (though if you give him a pack, you free up a power choice for something else). You might also get yourself a Sanguinary Priest with a jump pack, which will basically involve slapping a jump pack on the back of a plastic Apothecary. You might bitz-order the appropriate components so you don't have to buy a whole box set, though the SM Command Squad (contains the Apothecary) is a pretty nice kit, too. You'll need some extra jump packs if you go with the jump pack Librarian and/or the jump pack SP, though (the jp Chaplain has his own).

As far as vehicles go, when you buy additional transports, you might as well buy Razorbacks, but assemble them as Rhinos. Just don't glue the top hatch doors in place. Instead, glue the two doors to each other. Makes them one piece that gravity holds in place perfectly well. The reason for doing this is that it enables you to switch your vehicle between being a Rhino and a Razorback simply by switching that combined door piece with the top with the turret ring for the Razorback. If you get some Whirlwind turrets, those hulls can be used as Whirlwinds, too, so long as you don't glue the turrets to the turret rings! But, as the other fellows said, field more than one or two vehicles, and give your opponents something other than your transports to focus anti-tank firepower on. Regarding which to field, I personally don't like Razorbacks, because you're cutting down on your transport capacity and sacrificing the ability to shoot out of the vehicle. I only use 'Backs for units that are inherently small, like Command Squads (Honor Guard for Blood Angels).

As for Terminators, they'll be your big stick no matter what gear you give them. The Assault on Black Reach Termies are a fine unit. The only modification I'd make to them would be to give one guy either an assault cannon or a cyclone missile launcher - again, this involves bitz-ordering, but it'd be well worth your time to do so. While you're at it, you might give at least one guy a chainfist, too. You don't need to go nuts with chainfists, but it doesn't hurt to have at least one. Again, as previously said, the Termies are not strictly speaking necessary, but they're sure handy when you have them.

You're a little light on the anti-vehicle firepower, so when you're ready to buy beyond AoBR and the Battleforce, you might want to address that. Best option there is almost certainly a pair of ACLC Predators (that's a Predator with lascannon sponsons and an autocannon turret). That'll help with vehicle saturation as well. Also, I recommend getting a drop pod for your Dreadnought. You'll be more likely to get good use out of his multimelta that way, plus it's another AV12 chassis your opponents have to deal with.

As for encountering hard-core tournament players - don't worry about it. If it happens, it happens. You may get severely spanked, but you can learn a lot from the experience. I'd like to encourage you not to get discouraged if you lose a lot when you get started. When I started playing, I lost every game I played for a whole year. I kept at it and learned from my mistakes, though, and now I'm a pretty good player, if I do say so myself. For a while, most other players you encounter will have a lot of advantages over you - more experience playing, better tuned army lists, and a deeper collection to draw from. Don't get discouraged, though. It may not seem this way when you first start playing, but you can beat any army in this game with any other army, provided you've got a fairly versatile, balanced build. Hang in there, and if you get in any wins within a year of starting, you'll be doing better than me! :D

Sternguard777
25-12-2010, 07:20
@Khamul: As for encountering hard-core tournament players - don't worry about it. If it happens, it happens. You may get severely spanked, but you can learn a lot from the experience. I'd like to encourage you not to get discouraged if you lose a lot when you get started. When I started playing, I lost every game I played for a whole year. I kept at it and learned from my mistakes, though, and now I'm a pretty good player, if I do say so myself. For a while, most other players you encounter will have a lot of advantages over you - more experience playing, better tuned army lists, and a deeper collection to draw from. Don't get discouraged, though. It may not seem this way when you first start playing, but you can beat any army in this game with any other army, provided you've got a fairly versatile, balanced build. Hang in there, and if you get in any wins within a year of starting, you'll be doing better than me! :D

Wow it sounds like starting out must have been rough for you and that I was comparativly lucky to have my brothers start with me. We were all at pretty much the same skill and with comparable collections starting out.

On topic- You really can't go wrong if you like the army and you have a group of people you can game with that you know well. Also comming from a recent newbie the black reach set is a good starter and the supplies really get you going in terms of basic supplies and models.

Khamul
26-12-2010, 09:05
Thanks for the advice everyone!!! I really appreciate it as a friend and I are just starting (he's getting Necrons) and we have no idea how the game works...

I got my first 5 models yesterday- an Assault Squad for Christmas. What are the different benefits of the different weapons, and what are they best at? I have the parts for Chainswords, Bolt Pistols, Plasma pistols, Power sword and what must be a power axe. What do the different weapons do, and what should I arm them with?

I am planning to get the Black Reach kit and Battleforce, as I have discovered a friend who might be in the market for Orks. Now it's just a matter of getting hold of the money!!!

Thanks in advance!

susu.exp
26-12-2010, 11:30
Chainswords and Bolt pistols are the basic kit for Assault marines. Most marines will carry the basic kit. Blood Angels have various options. The Seargeant can take a power weapon (both the sword and the axe are PW, they have the same rules. Choose what looks cooler), which will negate armour making it a good option against other Marines, Necrons and other armies with good (generally 3+) saves (from here on refered to as MEQ - marine equivalent). There´s also a power fist in the kit (the large fist), which does negate armour and increases strenght. The downside is that it strikes later, but it gives you a chance to down many vehicles and have a fighting chance against some larger creatures. The seargeant and one of 5 Marines (if you expand your Assault Squad) can take Plasma Pistols. These are good against MeQs as well, but come with a chance to blow yourself up. Blood angels can take Meltaguns for the Squad Members and this is a more common kit - the Meltas can destroy vehicles and you often need to open up a transport before you can assult the troops that are in it.
The most common set-up I encounter is the maximum number of Meltas (there´s one in each tactical box, there´s also a bits pack for them) and a Power Fist on the Sgt. It´s rather versatile in that it can deal with most threats to a good degree.

Khamul
12-01-2011, 20:11
I ended up arming my Sergeant with Plasma pistol and Power axe, as there's only two players at my club who have any tanks/transports yet, and I'm going to be fighting Necrons a lot. Yesterday I bought the Space marine half of two Assault on Black reach kits at half price- my brother took the Ork halves. I now know how to play, and I have a small army. I'm poised to buy the blood angels Codex, along with Brother Corbulo. Thank you to everyone who posted on this thread- your advice has been most helpful :)

Far Seer
13-01-2011, 00:58
I have personally bought Assault on Black Reach, and I am sorry to say I quite regret buying it even now. Unless you are going to be fielding tactical marines, a captain or terminators (dreadnought is ok i guess, i converted him into furioso), or you want the mini 40k rule book, i wouldn't buy it. I reckon you should take a look at the Blood Angels codex, some lists on the internet, and create a list that you like. That way, you save money. I've rarely seen a BA list with tactical marines or a captain as there are just other better choices.
Welcome to the Sons of Sanguinius though and i hope you have fun playing with Blood Angels.

Khamul
16-01-2011, 09:41
I bought the Blood Angels Codex yesterday, and Commander Dante today. I'm planning to build up more Assault marines and use them as the core of my force. I converted one of my Dreadnoughts to a Furioso too- the Frag cannon is awesome against Orcs in particular!!!

Darklordsauron
19-03-2011, 11:45
Ha ha ha ha ha, very good and that is true =)

LonelyPath
19-03-2011, 14:00
My Orks really hate that frag cannon! It's sent more green skins to their deaths than any other weapon I've encountered in the game (except maybe the demolisher cannon which once killed 24 boys with one shot due to packed terrain) :(

Still, I'll get my revenge, for each of my boyz that fall, hundreds shall rise in his place :D

Jonnycron
19-03-2011, 16:11
Yup. :)

Giving 40k army list advice to someone who never played is like giving an Amish person advice on how to write SQL queries.

With that said, he can still refer back after playing some games. ;)


(For those outside of the U.S., the Amish are a group of people in the state of PA that live without modern technology for religious reasons)

I'm Amish and I take offence to that.....

Darklordsauron
20-03-2011, 10:06
I'm Amish and I take offence to that.....

HAAA HAAA HAAA to bad mate, what you doing on a computer? :confused::eyebrows::wtf:

:shifty: lol

Jonnycron
20-03-2011, 11:08
HAAA HAAA HAAA to bad mate, what you doing on a computer? :confused::eyebrows::wtf:

:shifty: lol

Dammit your on to me! :p