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View Full Version : so what ever happened to army books?



skullkandy
27-12-2010, 22:56
So all last year it was ogres and tomb kings the most neglected armies of warhammer were going to get fixed around the time of 8th being released....then all of a sudden GW forgets about them again and it's back to just releasing books for the same 5 armies that get new books every year.


I guess we shouldn't hold our breaths that the "new army book release schedule" will be anything better than the travesty that has been their method of army book releases for the past 10 years.

Ramius4
27-12-2010, 23:15
What are you talking about? Ogres and Tomb Kings are supposed to get new books in 2011. Before that is Orcs...

Tavendale
27-12-2010, 23:17
This is rumours, not rants.

But yeah, the new edition is just out and O&G, whilst not the MOST neglected army, does need updated.

zak
27-12-2010, 23:24
It is also a far more popular army than either Tomb Kings or Ogres. The current book is poor, therefore less people wish to play. My bet is for a VERY good Orc and Gobbo book. I still think the other two books will be next up after though.

Quetzl
27-12-2010, 23:39
Orcs & Goblins are one of the most popular armies in Fantasy, so GW wants to elaborate on this success by giving them new models and a new Army Book. The same reason why Skaven are getting new models in January as lots of people have been buying the Island of Blood and want more Skaven models.

I wouldn't expect GW to release an Army Book unless it made financial sense for them and this means releasing the best things they can, and to do that with the Tomb Kings they're going to need a mass of design time and resources - as essentially their whole range needs reworking. So GW will have to free up a large amount of studio time for them, whereas Ogres perhaps don't need such a rework in comparison to them and wouldn't require quite as much. Studio time, I suppose, is in terms of producing new models as essentially the Army Books are a secondary thought to the actual models produced which is the way it should be. I personally feel that we'll see Ogre's long before we'll see the Tomb Kings, but I'm sure we'll see them all again in time. Tomb Kings however do deserve a really good release, and preferably it would be better if GW spent a long time making sure it's perfect :)

Caitsidhe
28-12-2010, 00:06
It is still backward thinking. The reason Orcs and Goblins and a few others are more popular armies is because they get updated. It is no surprise Tomb Kings suffers in sales. If they did a reasonable, regular release of books in proper order, they would sell more of all their armies.

Jind_Singh
28-12-2010, 00:30
O & G have always been popular - not much to do with their support but just their nature and rules - and they have really appealing models - you can still use really old models that work splendid in any greenskin force - they are also really iconic, they have always been around in WFB settings since WFB came out!

And it's better GW take their time, like with Dark Eldar, I don't want to see any more 'wet releases' like Skaven - they did a great kit for clan rats, the Bell, and some characters - but that's all we saw! Beastmen saw some dodgy sculpts for razorgors and minos, with re-packaged Gors/Ungors, were the DE looked awesome from start to finish!

castlesmadeofsand
28-12-2010, 00:35
they could release new rules and models for tomb kings and ogres every month and i would never buy them, and i imagine there are a lot of people that feel the same. they are both what i think of as 'expansion' armies and as such will never catch up with the established/traditional armies in terms of interest to the majority of people.

Trains_Get_Robbed
28-12-2010, 00:52
I'm glad you think they may be expansion armies, however some people feel that they are even more so in tuned with fantasy fluff then for example vampire counts (their equal counter part). Speak up of I'm wrong, but aren't v.c supposed to be archaic, er I mean "iconic."

Regardless, just because an army is more popular or has a better established fan base doesn't mean it should be shunned! Most people would tell you that they much prefer a varied equal release time for armies; for many reasons, one of which being space marine syndrome. :(

Lord Inquisitor
28-12-2010, 01:00
It is still backward thinking. The reason Orcs and Goblins and a few others are more popular armies is because they get updated. It is no surprise Tomb Kings suffers in sales. If they did a reasonable, regular release of books in proper order, they would sell more of all their armies.

I don't think so... Orcs and goblins have always been around in warhammer while both tomb kings and ogres are "new" armies, even if mummies and ogres have been around since the beginning.

It's a chicken and egg thing, are they released often because they are popular or the other way around? I think there needs to be the customer base to make an army popular beyond just GW pushing it.

Charistoph
28-12-2010, 04:13
It is still backward thinking. The reason Orcs and Goblins and a few others are more popular armies is because they get updated. It is no surprise Tomb Kings suffers in sales. If they did a reasonable, regular release of books in proper order, they would sell more of all their armies.
I don't think so... Orcs and goblins have always been around in warhammer while both tomb kings and ogres are "new" armies, even if mummies and ogres have been around since the beginning.

It's a chicken and egg thing, are they released often because they are popular or the other way around? I think there needs to be the customer base to make an army popular beyond just GW pushing it.

Exactly. One also has to recognize that they aren't in this for just the games, but they are in this for the money. While they will make a bit of money on TK and OK, they will make more with Greenskins because of who and what they are. They are an established and very iconic army. They are relatively easy to learn and provide a lot of avenues to play, making them a good starting army. Considering how much bad press one of their flagship armies has been getting since early 7th Edition, is it any wonder that they want to get it fixed?

Lord Inquisitor
28-12-2010, 05:14
Meh, you could also argue that if less people play an army, there's more potential for new players with a revamp of the lists, or that their model ranges have more scope for fleshing out, etc.

But it is the case that GW like to redo their iconic lists immediately after a new edition. WFB doesn't quite have space marines, but it isn't shocking that Orcs n Gobbos are slated to be redone and bumping ogres and mummies back. Shame though was looking forward to a new fat guy book.

Torpedo Vegas
28-12-2010, 05:17
was looking forward to a new fat guy book.
:cries:Me too man, me too. Though I have Mantic's "Khaos" dwarfs to occupy my tie till we get a new book, so its not all bad.

Grunge
28-12-2010, 10:31
Hopefully GW will not mess the O&G book again, so they stop releasing them like if its a Codex Space Marines.

GW releases are getting past my comprehension.

Prokrustes
28-12-2010, 11:46
Without inside knowledge of GW, I guess we get Orks n Goblins then a pause due to even more but now grey/silvery SPACE MAHREEENS and then uhmm...even more nothing.
Seriously...I cant even feel a hint of GWs love for their fantasy branch. I just hope the next release is better than the last one.

mrtn
28-12-2010, 12:51
So all last year it was ogres and tomb kings the most neglected armies of warhammer were going to get fixed around the time of 8th being released....then all of a sudden GW forgets about them again and it's back to just releasing books for the same 5 armies that get new books every year.Just because you've read wishes for new armybooks doesn't mean that GW started work on those and then stopped, it just means that the wishes weren't correct in the first place.

DaemonReign
28-12-2010, 14:53
I think releasing the O&G book in March is a surpricingly good decision on GW's part.

It's one of those armies, together with WE and TK, that really needs a new book (especially according to devout O&G-players but hey who else are we gonna listen to really?) but O&G has ONE thing that trumps the other neglected armies: It's one of the definate CORE armies of the game, one of the armies that serve to give Warhammer Fantasy much of its fluffy characteristic.

So it makes perfect sense that a new Greenskin book is in the pipe. It would have made shamefully little sense if we had WE or TK coming out in March instead - both in terms of economic concideration from GW's part, as well as a strict gamer-perspective.

So GW isn't screwing up just yet. It's when they start revamping armies like WoC, DoC, Dwarves (and the likes) BEFORE doing something about TK and WE that we'll really have reason for rants and hatemails..

In my humble opinion.

sorberec
28-12-2010, 15:23
I think releasing the O&G book in March is a surpricingly good decision on GW's part.

Although releasing it sometime between the rulebook release and Christmas would have been an even better decision.

Having no new army book releases for 9 months following the new rulebook seems a very odd decision if GW wants to capitalise on the release of 8th edition.

skullkandy
28-12-2010, 15:58
It is still backward thinking. The reason Orcs and Goblins and a few others are more popular armies is because they get updated. It is no surprise Tomb Kings suffers in sales. If they did a reasonable, regular release of books in proper order, they would sell more of all their armies.

this is what I think. Maybe the reason tomb kings sell so badly is because they have the absolute most outdated miniature line that for the most part looks like they had interns create as well as having a horrible army book.

my point though is that GW is doing a horrible job of generating hype for warhammer because they come out with a new edition and then go silent for half year, not just slow but completely and utterly silent for 6 months after a huge release "to revitalize warhammer." If they want fantasy to sell they need to be cranking out army books. And not just the same couple armies that get updated every year.

Maybe I just had too much faith in them with the new edition and got my hopes up that they would start supporting fantasy. But it seems they're doing business as usual and continuing to push off half the armies in favor of re-releasing the usual suspects.

as for it being more financially smart to re-release the same couple popular armies over and over. That's only if you're short sighted like GW tends to be. If you asked every warhammer player what irritates them most about fantasy I bet the majority would say the army books and release schedules. Even people who play the popular armies all state that they enjoy having varied opponents to play against and balanced books to play against. Also the market is dwindling as GW has noticed, the sustainability lies in not just bringing in new players with the core armies but more so on having the current player base buy their second, third, or fourth army. That is where the less core armies come in, those are the ones most long time players don't have yet. If everyone has an orc army and a new book comes out you may be buying a few of the new models but you're not going to spend $1000 on a new army that you already have. So it makes sense in the long run to beef up the neglected armies to give older players a reason to keep buying and to also help the health of the game and recoup some of the losses from people leaving after 8th.

my money says we see a new high elf book, warriors of chaos, empire, and dark elves book before the ogres or tomb kings are updated.

Charistoph
29-12-2010, 05:00
Some rumors have it that TK are pretty much all ready to go. I wouldn't be surprised to see 8th releases be more of a populous/non-populous pattern following it. It would at least make good business sense.

The only question would be is which is populous, and which are not? Previous sales could be one indicator, but as someone earlier pointed out, updated armies get sales, while non-updated armies have reduced sales. Just look at Skaven as a result. Even Beastmen have seen a resurgence locally, though not nearly as much as the rats (that's more to the quality of the book, than the quality of the army).

skullkandy
29-12-2010, 15:54
Some rumors have it that TK are pretty much all ready to go. I wouldn't be surprised to see 8th releases be more of a populous/non-populous pattern following it. It would at least make good business sense.

The only question would be is which is populous, and which are not? Previous sales could be one indicator, but as someone earlier pointed out, updated armies get sales, while non-updated armies have reduced sales. Just look at Skaven as a result. Even Beastmen have seen a resurgence locally, though not nearly as much as the rats (that's more to the quality of the book, than the quality of the army).

Agreed on non-updated armies have reduced sales. Here is a little personal story to illustrate, obviously it's just one example but I think it probably happens a lot.
I'm getting ready to get back into fantasy, played 2 games in 7th when I wanted to get started but everything was pretty much on hold waiting for 8th. Anyway, now that 8th is out I'm ready to start in earnest. But my first army of choice was tomb kings. But looking at the ancient book and the horrible old sculpts I'm not going to drop the coin until they're updated.

I'm sure this happens a lot, someone wants to get into the hobby and after some research realizes that unless you play one of the 50% of armies that regularly gets updated you're probably going to be waiting 5-10 years for a decent book....so you just give up. (of course this is the other major flaw with GW sales/games. Every book is written in a vacume without making sure it's in line with the other books so if you don't have a book updated for the newest edition you're more than likely paying 25% more in points for much worse troops) I'm contemplating going with VC instead just because it's undead as well, but i'm only "eh" about the army so I may not buy anything at all.

Now look at that from the point of view of gamers who already play warhammer, I'm sure they would like to see more opponents a variety of armies to play against and fresh blood. This keeps the hobby lively and growing. More people play, more people draw others in.

theorox
29-12-2010, 15:59
GW updated 40kDE, that's a good enough indicator that they won't just drop armies and never give them new AB's. :)

Theo

sorberec
29-12-2010, 20:40
GW updated 40kDE, that's a good enough indicator that they won't just drop armies and never give them new AB's. :)

Theo

Tell that to the Squats, Chaos Dwarfs and Dogs of War... :)