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Kravunhive
31-12-2010, 10:14
So on January 4th the UK VAT rate will increase to 20%. This means that things will be that little bit more expensive, not a great deal, but still an increase is an increase. Does anyone know/see this affecting the price of GW products much? And will there be a knock on effect for independent stores?

This aside, I hope everyone at Warseer has a Happy New Year and all the best for 2011.

Kravunhive

EmperorNorton
31-12-2010, 11:05
I believe there is a note somewhere on GW's site that they will raise their prices accordingly.
That'll leave them with some funny looking price tags, though, so I guess that sooner rather than later they will put up the prices again to remedy that and have nice, even price tags again.

Chaos and Evil
31-12-2010, 12:38
Yes, all GW products except those few that are VAT-exempt (Books, mostly) will be raising in price.


I guess that sooner rather than later they will put up the prices again to remedy that and have nice, even price tags again.
Agreed. I suspect the next price rise will level all prices off at a rounded rate again.

reds8n
31-12-2010, 12:40
GW are adjusting their prices accordingly.


In line with the changes announced by the Government, from 4th January 2011 we will be applying the new standard VAT rate of 20% to all affected products.



http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=3700002&section=community&aId=14600002a

..that link's a bit hit and miss, so I quoted it above for you.

Mantic and Foundry are also raising there's, I'd imagine pretty much every company will.

Crube
31-12-2010, 12:41
I'd envisage a rise that incoprporates the VAT increase, then rounded up to the nearest 50p, or 1....

Funky01chef
31-12-2010, 13:21
I expect until the next round of annual price rises they'll have prices rounded to the nearest 5p, thats what they did when UK VAT was dropped to 15% a few years ago

simonr1978
31-12-2010, 13:55
I expect until the next round of annual price rises they'll have prices rounded to the nearest 5p, thats what they did when UK VAT was dropped to 15% a few years ago

A few years ago? December 1st 08 to January 1st 09. ;)

The difference this time round is that it was made clear at the time that this was a temporary reduction, the rise to 20% is effectively indefinite. As with Crube, I'd expect prices to be rounded up to the nearest 50p/1 pretty soon.

Spacker
31-12-2010, 14:36
Of course this will affect independent retailers too - those that are VAT registered will have to pass 20% of the selling price to HMRC as of the 4th January, and those that are not will have their trade prices increased by GW as they'll be paying the higher rate of VAT to GW.

The whole VAT changing was a mistake from the very beginning - the dropping of VAT to 15% benefitted mainly those at the top of the distribution chain as they simply increased the ex VAT cost prices to the retailers who then had less margin to play with, and with the subsequent increase back to 17.5% most of the manufacturers and distributors simply left the cost price as it was and so the retailers had to increases prices or lose more margin. Now it's going up to 20% again the retailers and customers will pay inflated prices (or in the case of VAT registered retailers will have to charge their customers more VAT).

Take a 100 item, which previously would have had an ex VAT price of 85.11

When VAT was reduced to 15% the ex VAT price became 86.95 to keep the inc VAT price the same as at the 17.5% VAT rate.

When VAT went back up to 17.5 the inc VAT price increased to 102.17, so what should have been a net zero price change was actually a stealth 2.17% increase.

Now VAT is going up to 20%, that same item increases in price to 104.34

So while at first glance it looked like we had a 2.5% reduction, then 2.5% increase, and then a 2.5% increase again, net result should have been 2.13% increase overall (100 * 1.2 / 1.175 ), the actual increase since before the VAT drop is 4.34% (even not taking into account rounding up of prices and other increases during the period) where the manufacturer/distributor/retailer didn't pass on reductions and did pass on increases to the supply chain. Had the VAT rate never been changed the customer (and most retailers) would be better off right now.

As an independent GW (and other game systems/figures) retailer part-time, and full-time working for a wholesale book/video game distributor and retailer, I have first experience of dealing with all this within various parts of the supply chain. Personally, I think the whole "let's lower VAT to stimulate spending and then put it back up again" was the worst ... decision ... ever :(

blongbling
31-12-2010, 15:54
Reality is that GW was always going to put their VAT up, they had to this isn't a year only increase, this is a permanent increase. Whether GW now "rounds up their prices" is a different question and there is nothing to currently suggest they will

Hermanesq
31-12-2010, 15:57
i know tactical squads are going up to 23 quid, which as one 10 year old said in my local GW

'Thats only 2 quid away from stupid now'

That kid will go far, lol

scarletsquig
31-12-2010, 16:33
23 tactical squad is a bit rough, I remember when they were 10. It was only 10 years ago. In the UK, we've had 30% inflation over that time period.. which should be leaving that tactical squad at 13. The remaining 10/ 100% increase is all GW.

It wouldn't surprise me to see "30 for 10 elite infantry, 20 for 10 regular infantry" as the standard price for GW models at some point within the next 5 years.

At which point they might start breaking the boxes down into 5-man boxes in an attempt to disguise the high price tag.

I've noticed that most of the new elite infantry releases for warhammer that cost 25 currently are moulded as 2 lots of 5 models.

I have a hunch that we'll be seeing "15 for 5" boxes of greatswords at some point.

Minimum unit size of 5 models in newer army books is also something to watch out for.

Grimmeth
31-12-2010, 16:37
The VAT figures are being rounded off to the nearest (or rounded up, I'm wasn't paying masses of attention) 5p, so at least things won't be 20.42 or something stupid like that.

Still a tad annoying, but I guess we're going to have to get used to it as everywhere is going to have stupid, non-rounded prices now.

I wonder if anyone has calculated in man hours how much more this is going to cost companies to a) reprice everything, b) recode their till systems and c) in time spent giving people their silly amounts of change?

Chaos and Evil
31-12-2010, 17:20
It wouldn't surprise me to see "30 for 10 elite infantry, 20 for 10 regular infantry" as the standard price for GW models at some point within the next 5 years.

At which point they might start breaking the boxes down into 5-man boxes in an attempt to disguise the high price tag.

GW's already charging 20 for 5 elite man sized models (Blood Angels Death Company & Sanguinary Guard boxes).

In other words, they've already passed that point!

rich1231
31-12-2010, 18:29
The main issue for retailers like ourselves is the way most suppliers ignore the 21st century when releasing or updating prices. A file that could be compatible with most epos and web stores would not take long to create and maintain. However in this industry no one does it.

Funky01chef
31-12-2010, 21:03
The VAT figures are being rounded off to the nearest (or rounded up, I'm wasn't paying masses of attention) 5p, so at least things won't be 20.42 or something stupid like that.

Still a tad annoying, but I guess we're going to have to get used to it as everywhere is going to have stupid, non-rounded prices now.

I wonder if anyone has calculated in man hours how much more this is going to cost companies to a) reprice everything, b) recode their till systems and c) in time spent giving people their silly amounts of change?

There wont actually have been tha much time spent on this, changing the VAT rate on thier till's is simply a matter of head office changing the Tax rate associated to a table in thier programming and then distributing an update as all thier tills are networked, if they've changed the prices slightly to help with the rounding again this will have been worked out for each given price and then simply had the appropriate tables updated en-mass. There is minimal re-pricing to do in store as they use price codes on thier shelves normally, so they just have to change the price strips to reflect the new prices.

ashc
01-01-2011, 10:17
I have a hunch that we'll be seeing "15 for 5" boxes of greatswords at some point.

Minimum unit size of 5 models in newer army books is also something to watch out for.

Aye, and this would similarly match the old 5 metals in a box for about the same price.

Kravunhive
01-01-2011, 15:35
23 tactical squad is a bit rough, I remember when they were 10...

I remember this too, I said that to a GW manager once and he said that tac squad were NEVER 10... Really, cos I sure as hell remember that...

Wasn't the idea of everything going plastic to make things cheaper? The minute a tac squad hits 25, I'm out the hobby... not that i buy direct from GW anyway

Wil Grand
01-01-2011, 15:54
I remember also. A box of five marines cost 5 which was the exact same as a marine bike at the time. Maybe seven or eight years ago?
I see the prices remaining the same but with a till code charging the extra.

Why would you be out ~the hobby~ just because of GW? They aren't the be all and end all of wargaming, afterall.

ashc
01-01-2011, 16:34
Wasn't the idea of everything going plastic to make things cheaper?

Although it was banded about in White Dwarfs at the time (man that must have been about 10-12 years ago itself) GW have officially said in financial reports (which is where it matters) that they are moving towards plastics being sold at the same price as metals because they now consider them to be a luxury product and luxury brand that people will pay for.

The argument is null and void.

to summarise GW's POV: 'Them's the breaks, pal!'.

Wil Grand
01-01-2011, 16:52
Although it was banded about in White Dwarfs at the time (man that must have been about 10-12 years ago itself) GW have officially said in financial reports (which is where it matters) that they are moving towards plastics being sold at the same price as metals because they now consider them to be a luxury product and luxury brand that people will pay for.

The argument is null and void.

to summarise GW's POV: 'Them's the breaks, pal!'.

From memory, that was a Paul Sawyer article in 217 that said just that. I think John Stallard was in charge back then and they were both totally right. Plastic HAS made figures cheaper, just not at GW. These two gents are making some of the cheapest and best 28mm's out there, you just have to see past your nose to see them.

t-tauri
01-01-2011, 17:30
Thread closed. Duplicates the existing pricing sticky.