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BigRob
03-01-2011, 13:33
Hello,

So, next in line is the Questing Knight, always a fun character to play he has some of the best settlement rules and Roleplaying potential. The honour points system is especially good, as is the Questing side of things but its during the adventures that he falls down. The initial few levels are easy, moderately good armour, a powerful sword and his favour make things easy but then after a few levels the restrictions on armour, items and healing potions start to bite as does his terrible skill list and by the hero levels he slips behind.

So, here goes...

Questing Knight

Wounds: 1D6+8
WS: 4
BS: 6+
S: 3
T: 3
I: 3
A: 1
Pinning: 6+
WP: 3
Luck: 0

Weapon: Knights Greatsword (1D6+S+3, Two Handed)
Armour: Knights Armour (+3AP)
Initial Equipment: D6 Bandages, Ladies Favour (same as original).

Initial Skill: Blessing of the Lady of the Lake.
At any time the Knight may spend a luck point to regain +D6W.
Against all missile attacks including Magic Missiles, The Knight gains Ignore Blow at the following values:

Novice 6+
Champion 5+
Hero 4+
Lord 3+


Special Rules:
The Knight may only use two handed weapons. He may only use a magic weapon if it is one of these weapons. The Knight will never use missile weapons or magic items that cast attack spells.
The Knight may never wear any armour other than his Knightly Armour. He will never use a shield.
The Knight is questing for clues to the location of the grail and always has a special quest (which is the same as the original)

Battle Level Table
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Wounds 1D6+8 +D6 +D6 +D6 +D6 +D6
WS 4 5 5 6 7 8 8 9 10 10
BS 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+
S 3 4 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5
T 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
I 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 6
A 1 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 5
Pinning 6+ 6+ 6+ 6+ 5+ 5+ 5+ 4+ 4+ 4+
Luck 0 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 3
The Knight will gain a new skill each time he advances a level. Roll on the skill table below, re-rolling any duplicates.

Skills:
2: Virtue of Duty
Provided he is in base contact with 3 other warriors, the Knight and warriors gain a +1 bonus on his rolls to hit and gain a +3 bonus to fear and terror rolls.
3: Virtue of Audacity
Before adding bonus for weapons, if the knights opponent has a higher strength value, the knights strength is increased to match that value.
4: Virtue of Noble Disdain
When in combat with an opponent who is using a missile weapon, the Knight gains a +1 bonus on his to hit rolls and deals an extra 3 damage per hit.
5: Virtue of Knightly Temper
For one turn, for every successful roll to hit, the knight may make an extra attack. This continues until he fails to hit and runs out of attacks. This skill may be used once per adventure per title.
6: Virtue of Heroism
When fighting an opponent with the Large Monster special rule, the Knight gains +1 Damage dice per Title.
7: Virtue of the Ideal
The Knight permanently gains +1WS +1S +1I +1A and +D3 Wounds.
8: Virtue of the Penitent Knight
Provided the Knight is using no magic weapons, armour or equipment what so ever, his attacks count as magical and roll an extra D6 Damage. The knight will also benefit from Magic Resistance 4+ and Ignore Blow 4+.
9: Virtue of Empathy
The Knight no longer has to pay any living expenses in the settlement and may choose to ignore 1 event per title during the stay at the settlement, instead treating it as an uneventful day.
10: Virtue of Purity
The knights Blessing of the Lady skill is modified to Ignore Blow 2+ vs all missile and magic missile attacks.
11: Virtue of Confidence
The Knight may issue one challenge per dungeon to an opponent. He must direct all his attacks at this opponent and no other warrior may attack it while the Knight is still standing. The knight gains +1 on his to hit rolls and gains double the monsters value in honour points if he deals the killing blow.
12: Virtue of Stoicism
The Knight is immune to Fear, Terror and Greater Deamon Terror.


Keeping the honour points system and his settlement rules (although they may get updated when I work on the settlement rules later).

Thoughts? There were over 50 views on the Trollslayer but no one wanted to say anything. Don't be shy :D

Daniel36
04-01-2011, 13:02
2: Virtue of Duty
Provided he is in base contact with 3 other warriors, the Knight and warriors gain a +1 bonus on his rolls to hit and gain a +3 bonus to fear and terror rolls.

Shouldn't that be "the Knight and warriors gain a +1 bonus on their rolls to hit"?

BigRob
04-01-2011, 14:31
Yes it should :p I originally had it as just for the Knight (as the virtue is in WFRP) but I figured it would help the warriors out, making it a more useful skill.

Daniel36
04-01-2011, 20:19
I noticed some other minor grammatical mistakes. Would you like me to proofread your things? Or rather not?

BigRob
04-01-2011, 22:25
Thats fine, I have terrible grammer, worse spelling and shocking use of capital letters. Apparently if I wasn't already in my 20s they would test me for Dyslexia, but since I wasn't noticed in school, there is no provision for testing or diagnosing adults so the best they could do is say I "possibly" have it.

But, back on topic, apart from the terrible Grammer any input on the material? I'm looking for a way to bring things more up to date with current Warhammer ideas, boost the warriors to give them more advantages after level 5 when the monster table hots up (notice skills giving help against large monsters...) and to generally spice things up.

Do you think its too much, too little, just right? Are there any of the skills or changes that you think, dear god thats killer or dear god, I hope I don't roll that one?

Daniel36
05-01-2011, 16:46
Well, I personally don't know much about Warhammer Quest (go figure, I started my own dungeon crawler game... Sigh), so I am not one to ask about any of the rules, but I would be more than happy to help you out with checking everything once you are confident with it. Let me know.

And don't worry about your spelling. So it's not your strong point, who cares? I possibly have ADD, but you know what. If there is anyone out there who is COMPLETELY free of anything considered "not good", that person is probably the weirdest person ever.

PEACE OUT!

Purplebeard
06-01-2011, 22:28
I think it's a good idea to revisit the rules. I don't like him having higher WS than the Dwarven and Elven characters, or only 2-handed weapons and no shield (esp. given that the model has a shield!).

As for disorders, look up Asperger's and Dyspraxia. Those 2 could potentially apply to 80% of the people on here :S

BigRob
06-01-2011, 22:51
I think it's a good idea to revisit the rules. I don't like him having higher WS than the Dwarven and Elven characters, or only 2-handed weapons and no shield (esp. given that the model has a shield!).

As for disorders, look up Asperger's and Dyspraxia. Those 2 could potentially apply to 80% of the people on here :S

Dyspraxia is another thing they told me "you might have it, but we don't test adults, unlucky".

Good feedback, the WS issue is addressed in my other warrior updates (check out the trollslayer). Remember the Questing Knight has already spent a lifetime in training, won his spurs as an errant and served as a Knight of the Realm so I was thinking he will be pretty good at the fighting.

The Two handed weapon is a recent addition to the Brettonian lore. The QK will give up the lance and wield a greatsword instead. This is hardly a problem in Quest as you don't have the same dual wielding imbalance of something like mordhiem and the Knights greatsword is slightly different to the kind of Greatsword they sell in the Weaponsmith :D The old model certainly had a shield, he also had full plate armour, which he could never take off, which only gave him 1AP so I have tried to redress the balance slightly. These changes do make him a brute at level 1 but he settles down as the levels increase (and is slightly penalised at later levels but a real knight needs not tricksy magical armours!)

Shas'El Tael
03-07-2011, 04:55
I'm working on a Knight and Retinue presently, to run dungeons with. This more updated variation certainly hits the thematic tones for me.


Remember the Questing Knight has already spent a lifetime in training, won his spurs as an errant and served as a Knight of the Realm so I was thinking he will be pretty good at the fighting.
Completely agree, was my main point of debate when my group muttered about his kick ass ability when we began.

- Tael.

BigRob
03-07-2011, 09:06
Liking the retinue idea, so that would involve Breton specific warriors or just the other warriors being his servents?


Could go with a battle pilgrim, man at arms, bowman, squire, possibly a herrimualt and a Damsel (although going by the fluff, she will be more powerful than the rest of them put together) or look back and go for the "daughters sent to magic school" background to tone things down.

Shas'El Tael
03-07-2011, 09:36
Hi BigRob,

I'm actually working on a large project, whereby readers follow a young Knight, his Retinue and bits parts are played by gamers who join the questing Knight in various themed dungeons. My hope is to have people invest in the favourite characters and get feedback when something great or terrible occurs. Or a cheer when a favourite cameo characters returns to aid/hinder the Knight and his Retinue.

So far, two Retainers, the Squire and 'A Daughter Sent to Magic School' (yet to figure a title myself either). Handful of other characters.

It was sparked by WHQsts' sub-dungeon idea for the Knight. I subbed in two Retainer models (played by friends) then led my Knight into the dungeon. We had a blast. The idea was born.

I like your suggestions for specific Retainer types, the idea is still maturing whilst I kit out themed dungeon denizens etc and draw up the story arc of the Quest. Be quite a bugger if he dies in the first dungeon! haha.

TBH It's riding a fine line between WhQst Knight and Mordheim Bretonnian warband.

BigRob
03-07-2011, 21:11
Have you considered WFRP (version 2 preferrably) and the Knights of the Grail sourcebook, This will definatly give you the depth your looking for.

Shas'El Tael
03-07-2011, 23:36
I had not, due to not even knowing about that book :)

Thanks for the tip! I suspect you are drawing some of your suggested changes to the Knight from this source material?

BigRob
04-07-2011, 11:37
Indeed, Knights of the Grail and the last couple of editions of the Brettonian Armybook.

Warhammer has moved on alot since WHQ was written, the knightly virtues for example which I have used to replace the, frankly uselss skills like "Knightly Flail" and the one that reduces the fire damage you take from firebreathers......because they are so common :shifty:

Shas'El Tael
04-07-2011, 13:39
I've finally tracked down a pdf copy and read through it online. Took down some notes on the various RPG characters therein. Fun stuff, thanks for the lead.

Based on that, I can now see why you chose Two-Hander weapons for a Questing Knight as per the background. I still feel dropping a shield is odd, but more a Knight of the Realm theme, which in essence is what the original Bretonnian boxed character really is all things considered.

Reading your earlier thoughts in this light; battle pilgrim and a Damsel seem likeliest companions for a Questing/Grail knight, but unlikely for a Knight of the Realm.

In as much a herrimualt would be positively abhorrent as a companion to a Knight based on WFB/RPG. Almost as if the Sheriff of Nottingham rode with Robin.

Definitely see a man at arms, bowman and squire as the most likely companions for a Knight Errant/of the Realm. (That and using shields).

Anyhow, open thinking aside, are you intending a series of Knight packs or just revisiting and re-establishing the Questing Knight in light of new background as above?

BigRob
04-07-2011, 19:34
Well yes and no to the Herri, some knights (and indeed the one in the intro adventure from the book) take up the mantle to hlep right wrongs done to the common folk.

I was just going through WHQ and updating bits as I went. The problem with alot of the WHQ warriors is that they have a few incredibly strong builds/skills and usually twice as many terrible ones or they just seem at odds with where warhammer is now. If you play WHQ past about level 5 which alot of campaigns do not reach, you wil lsee a sudden and lethal ramping up of the baddies (especially when Large monsters come out to play) and I've seen a few people loose interest when their beloved warrior just keeps getting his face pounded into the mud by that monster (and things like Bloodthirsters/verminlords etc are actually unkillable unless you have something like a frostblade or an arrow of slaying).

Plus its fun :D

Going with your knightly retinue plan a squire, couple of faithful retainers (maybe one bowman and one man at arms) a battle pilgrim who just mooches along behind them and a damsel who keeps things magical with her own agenda sounds like a good game. Could easily be expanded from WHQ into WFRP too.