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Eredrian
07-01-2011, 11:52
Hello,

I know, in WHFB the need of 1D6 is necessary, because you roll several models in one time. But in WHQ, attacks are normally rolled one by one (deathblow kept in mind). What I disliked is the small variation of to hit rolls by fighters with higher WS. Mostly there is a small bonus to a WS 2 combatant. So I made a try of an alternative table. It has been tested and it works. (You only have to change the special rules belonging to D6)

What's else needed, is a new BF table of 2D6 system, but I came to no result. Purposes are welcome.

Inchpractice
07-01-2011, 21:46
Interesting idea

The only problem I can see is the 1 always fails rule and the 6 for critical hit some heroes and monsters have. With 1d6 the chances of rolling one of them is 6-1 but if you are using the 2d6 roll with double 1's and double 6's as the key rolls then that is 36-1 which will lead to alot less of them happening. That weakens the integrity of the combat.

Making a 2, 3 or 4 an automatic miss and a 10, 11 and 12 as a critical hit keeps the odds of them happening at 6-1 but then it messes with the table.

Eredrian
08-01-2011, 09:57
Yes of course, this was something I also thought about.

At first, I welcome the change of chance and want to use it. What can be discussed is the declaration of critical hit and fail.
In the table (really no aim), there are grey areas. You could say, that this areas exclude the critical hit and/or negate the fail.
With other words, a bloodthirster has no fail on a 3 or 4 and a snotling is not able to make critical hits. The other regular rules for 1 and 6 should be rewritten in fail and critical hit, where a fail is on a 2-4 and a critical is on a 10-12. Additionally, you are free to variate this point, why is a critical the same for a vampire lord, a minotaur and an ogre? A mighty dragon could have a critical from 8+ or 9+. However, the chances doesn't change so hard like on the former table.


Addition: The table is still not right. There is only one 7, the lower part should begin with 6-6-5-5-4-4-....

Daniel36
08-01-2011, 15:28
You could also opt for the "rolling double" rule for critical hits. Though I don't know what the odds for that are.

Alternatively, you could say if you roll double but below the To Hit value, it could be a critical miss, though I am not sure there are rules for that, and if you roll double and over the To Hit value, it's a critical hit.

Good idea?

Eredrian
08-01-2011, 21:35
It's fantastic!

Both WS, attacker and defender are included in this system, this is the one.

Botjer
10-01-2011, 22:33
heh the chance of rolling a double is 1 in 6.

why? how?

well lets look at it this way

you are rolling two dice

lets roll them one at a time.

------
the result of the first die can be anything.

the result of the second die has to be the same as the result on the first die.
------

If the result on the first die can be ANYTHING then its a 6 in 6 chance that you get ANYTHING.

Getting the same result as the die before is always 1 in 6.

1/6 x 6/6 = 6/36 = 1/6

narrativium
11-01-2011, 00:28
Botjer: while that's true, I think the idea would be that a critical hit is also required to hit the opponent - which shifts the odds slightly.

My issue with 12s or doubles being criticals is a problem I see in several GW mechanics (poison shots in WHFB, for example): taking a look at that table, a WS1 warrior attacking a WS10 target won't hit often, but every hit will be critical. Then again, that might just be a charm of the underdog's narrative, not to mention a part of the table which shouldn't see much use.

Eredrian
11-01-2011, 09:50
(Edited the combat table)

@narrativium:
Thanks for your exception, I tried to bring it in now. But I think a crit must always be possible, I read often times about the dwarven 'tank', who is not longer to harm by gobbos. So, perhaps with this additioned crit system this problem is also solved.

Ok, let's see, what I've done (please take a look at the tables):

Rules
You roll 2D6, a 2 is always a miss, a 12 is always a critical hit. Any special rules for models overwrite the general rules.

How to use the Miss and Critical Table
Remember there are 6 doubles. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, where a 2 is always a miss and a 12 is always a critical.
Determine your minimum to hit roll including all modifications (berserk, hate, stairs up/down, fear, terror etc.).
All doubles over this value are criticals and all doubles under the value are misses. When your roll is a double count it as normal hit. Sort your misses beginning with the highest value. From the highest to the lowest give them a order number (f.e. To hit is 9 → 4 I, 6 II, 8 III on Miss, 10 I, 11 II, 12 III on critical). When you roll any double look at the Miss Table to determine the result. Repeat this for the criticals, but begin with the lowest double.
(It seems easier to follow, than to write it down.)

Thought to this system:

A snotling should be able to make a critical hit, so he also able to harm „bunker dwarfs“. When he attacks a might dragon, he's in fear or also terrified, so his misses are 2,4,6,8,10 (5to36 - I-V), but he can also make a critical on a 12 (1to36).
Including the miss/crit tables, also if he makes a critical it will always be a smaller effect than this of a might dragon, when he reacts. Lets stay at this fight. The snot (of course) was not able to kill the dragon, so he fights back. Additionally to his more attacks, his miss is only a 2 (1to36 – I) but he makes a crit on 4,6,8,10,12 (5to36 – I-V). So, when the dragon misses its not so bad as for the snot and with his crits will be more effective. For the snot the crit is more than needed, shure, but it is still right!
Other positive effects included in this system are the fear/terror effect, as discribed earlier, a fight on different levels, your change to get a crit is increased when you fight stairs down (the head of an enemy is easier to hit) and stairs up the miss is increased/crit decreased (of course, your position is bad and the target is harder to hit).

So it is not perfectly formulated, but I guess the intention is clear. Can the discribed be written in shorter words? Further suggestions are welcome (and feel free to proof reading).

Eredrian
25-01-2011, 11:44
So, no change, the table works.
Additionally I changed now the BF hits.
So you know you can roll with 2D6 from 2-12, what means 11 different events. The models have values from 0-10 what are also 11 points.
Now we exclude BF 0, which means no missile fire and the 2 as miss. Both together give a new table from
BF 0= -; 1= 12 (to hit) to BS 10=3+
The chances moved for some BS values, but it is aimed. I didn't liked the autohit system before.
So let the (wood) elf start with BS of 5 (8+/41,7%) (I prefer) or 6 (7+/58,3%) and the system is playable.
Better missile weapons make more sense with this system, they can combined like a magic arrow, bow and string to get better dice rolls than before.

Like in close combat, the table for a miss and a critical hit can also be used (with a modified text for missile fire like strings broken, repair it one round...) With a brighter values you can also include higher +1 and lower positions -1, fear/terror on to hit roll.

Inandantia
25-01-2011, 12:19
Great idea on adjusting the to-hit chart. It's something I've often pondered as my biggest dislike of being limited to a d6 is how much even small modifiers affect it; found the blade of +1 to hit in the first dungeon room? Yay, you'll now easily hit most things for the rest of the dungeon! I think this should make the scope for new equipment/magic items much broader, which is really cool.

I also agree with you on the BS issue, alway preffered the idea of giving warriors and monsters an actual BS score rather than 4+, 5+ or what have you. Hopefully will make ranged weapons more useful.

Out of interest, what would the to-hit chart look like if you used 3d6 instead? I'm curious to how skills/items/spells modifications to rolls could be made even more subtle, i.e +1 on a d6 makes quite a change, where as +1 on a 3d6 would be less significant, am I right?

Eredrian
25-01-2011, 13:23
Ok, here are my thoughts to the BS chart:

2D6 (11 results)
BF:Roll:chance
0:2: Miss
1:3: 2/36 - 2,7%
2:4: 5/36 - 8,3%
3:5: 9/36 - 16,7%
4:6: 14/36 - 27,8%
5:7: 20/36 - 41,7%
6:8: 25/36 - 58,3%
7:9: 29/36 - 72,2%
8:10: 32/36 - 83,3%
9:11: 34/36 - 91,7%
10:12: 35/36 - 97,2%

3D6 (16 results)
3: 1/216 0,4%
4: 3/216 1,3%
5: 6/216 2,8%
6:
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16: 210/216 97,2%
17: 213/216 98,7%
18: 215/216 99,6%