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Grunge
07-01-2011, 16:29
I haven't got a reall profound knowledge (i know only the basics) of Night Lords background, I stubled upon them based only on looks.

My doubts are simple, I want to have some opinions on what Codexes I might used (i mean all marine codexes, not only Chaos) and what should a typical 1500/2000 point Night Lord list should look like.

What I am trying to get to is to how their nature reflects in gameplay, the whole stealth/fear/lightning strike thing. Also I am trying to get an idea at what models and how many i should be aiming at so I can start to buy and convert.

Thanks in advance to any help you can provide!

Erwos
07-01-2011, 16:59
If you're planning on using lots of Raptors, the BA codex is basically the best choice.

Starchild
07-01-2011, 17:03
The old Index Astartes lists (and Codex Chaos 3.5) has Night Lords with an extra Fast Attack choice. Sadly all character and style has been dropped in Chaos 4.0. :cries:

Using any codex you want, I would say don't include many large vehicles, if any; instead focus on the fast units (Raptors/Assault Squads especially) backed up by power fists and melta guns for anti-tank work.

Lord Wasa
07-01-2011, 17:04
well, I've probably got no more knowledge than you, but I do have some ideas that MIGHT be worth thinking about, but if anyone says I'm wrong I'd trust them and not me x)

Dark Angels could very wel be used I think, at least the deathwing part. deep strike could represent infiltrators showing up, and terminators could be highly seasoned "normal" (as in power armoured) night lords to kind of "up" the elite feel. It would be small and elite, which means less models to convert and more time to spend on each model. You could even include some ravenwing elements for speed factor, or as hired mercenaries from other places

Blood angels i believe could fit the bill, but I don't have the codex, so I don't really know, but from what I understand they should at least fit with the blitzkrieg-part, and with the amount of jump packs in the army, you could again use deep strike as a stand in for infiltrate.

Grey Knights could also work for basically the same reasons as Deathwing, use deep strike as infiltrate, and it would be highly elite and a small unit count. However, with a rumoured new codex, choosing this option is a gamble.

I have absolutely no idea or knowledge about what's in the Space Wolves 'dex, so yeah...

Out of the Chaos 'dex, chosen and raptors would be a no-brainer IMO, but I don't really know what more to take, especially for troops (mind you my knowledge of the C:CSM is not much greater than that of C:SW)

anyway, I hope I've been of some help atleast, now good luck to you and your project, and make sure to let us know how everything proceeds (if I ever go chaos, it's night lords for me too)

EDIT: and ofcourse, as Starchild said, fast attack is good, as is anything with scout/infiltrate/deep strike really, large vehicles and slow **** less so...

Grunge
07-01-2011, 17:05
Can you share any rought army list outlines?

So I can see at how many Marines of each type I'm looking into.

I'd really like to be able to field Chaos Terminators also :P

Tenzing
07-01-2011, 17:22
Hmmmm- Stealthy, fear-inducing assassins:

Codex Space Marines has some options- namely Shrike, who would give your whole army Fleet, plus an Infiltrating Character.

C:SM also lets you take bike squads as Troops if you have a Capt on bike (not Chapter Master) so you could fill out a fast army of bikes and assault troops- even moreso with Kor'Sarro, who then swaps Combat Tactics for Outflank.

Plus I reckon Vanguard Marines would make awesome Raptors :)

Another option would be C:Blood Angels- they've allready got Raptors covered with all the assault troops. bear in mind that Mephiston also gives you access to the Daemon Prince model if you wanted to use that, and there's a bit of scope with Astorath and Sanguinor to represent forces from different periods in the Night Lords history (the older they are, the closer they get to suffering from their Primarch's irrevocable insanity- so Death Company and Astorath may fit the bill.)

I don't think that there's anything C:Space Wolves that would really give you a Night Lords theme, other than Grey Hunters have pistol, gun and sword like Chaos Space Marines.

So you've got:

Shrike- Termies with Fleet, lots of Vanguard/Assault Marines, some Tacticalsin Rhino plus whatever else

Kor'Sarro- Bikes and Vanguard

Blood Angels- any list you really wanted to build

Logan_uc
07-01-2011, 17:32
c:csm, although it does a bad job, its still the best, those who say different are just wanting some game advantage, just max FA no daemons and you get the closest to NL that you can now days.

Drakcore Bloodtear
07-01-2011, 17:41
You have to see that the whole 'Raptor' army was only introduced in the 3.5 edition Codex.

If you want my opinion, NL are all about image, the scary, terror inducing, super warriors can only be achieved through the models because no army supports that front.

All SM armys bring a certain NL theme, whether its lots of terminators, jump packs or tanks they all can be used. So take a list that represents your NL faction, for example my army is using the BA codex as well as the DKoK list, because whats scarier then a bombardment followed by iminated destruction?

Swordsman
07-01-2011, 17:48
We have two Night Lords at my hobby store, and they both field them using the Blood Angels 'dex. So I'd suggest that, or a Shrike oriented list via C:SM.

Grunge
07-01-2011, 17:55
@Lord Wasa and Tenzing: Your post really opened some options.

Using Deathwing might be a good way, the idea of converting normal pwoer armoured and beef them up to an elite look really made my day!!!

Using Vanguard Marines and Shrike might also be a way to go.

I also have very little knowledge of the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, is it able to field a very small, elite list? Is it even possible to field something Terminator-only?

Lord Damocles
07-01-2011, 18:15
The old Index Astartes lists (and Codex Chaos 3.5) has Night Lords with an extra Fast Attack choice. Sadly all character and style has been dropped in Chaos 4.0. :cries:
It's a pity that 'bodge on an extra Fast Attack slot' is [still] considered characterful.

Lord Wasa
07-01-2011, 18:31
makes me happy to have been of assistance, as I said Night Lords and their theme is my favourite in Chaos, so I have been thinking about it from time to time and the deathwing (with perhaps a select few other units) is my favourite, depending on how the new GK come out.

As for using C:CSM, as far as I can tell termi-only is impossible, my understanding is that if you build Night Lords around C:CSM you'll focus less on "small and elite" and more on "fast and furious". For example, you are stuck with "regular" marines in rhinos as troop (customizable ofc, but still), then you'll probably go with raptors as Fast attack, and chosen or termies as elite, not really what I personally am looking for (and frankly, to me it seems BA represent it better), but it seems to work for others.

Draconis
07-01-2011, 18:36
Read the novel Lord of the Night. It will give you alot of fluff bout the army as well as an insight into the madness of the Nightlords. Its an amazing read by Simon Spurrier.

Grunge
07-01-2011, 20:13
So there's no viable list heavy on Chaos Terminators? :(

Draconis
07-01-2011, 20:17
If you use Icons, you can use them like teleport homers. Example would be a squad of CSM in a rhino with an Icon of Nurgle. And then you rush it forward and DS your termies. Or my fav, a squad of Chosen who infiltrate. But then you only get 2 squads of termies.

Lord Wasa
07-01-2011, 20:35
Well, heavy as in 3 units, yeah, but not more if I'm reading it correctly
Plus, you'd still need enough troops to be competitive
(and as Draconis said chosen compete with termies)


c:csm, although it does a bad job, its still the best, those who say different are just wanting some game advantage, just max FA no daemons and you get the closest to NL that you can now days.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to go slightly offtopic and point out how much ******** this is (not directed at you Logan per se, more the argument, I'm tired of hearing it). There is no way on earth (short of asking) anyone can know why anyone is doing anything. I for one often come up with my own representations, such as using Deathwing rules to go with Night Lords models. I do not do this to get a "game advantage", I do this because I personally feel that
1. Rules fit. GW themselves use deep strike-esque rules to count as infiltrate, why can't I?
2. I feel CSM are too wimpy for what they are supposed to be, I like small and elite.
3. You can back them up with Ravenwing units (scout/outflank) or regular jump pack marines for that fast feel.
4. The play-style fits me

Sorry to go OT, but I am sick and tired of hearing from people who I don't know and who don't know me, that I apparently am only out to get an advantage.

Draconis
07-01-2011, 20:53
Hey, I agree mate. And so what if some peeps want a game advantage? I wouldnt do it to power game, I'd do it to balance the field. Equal armies.

Erwos
07-01-2011, 21:13
You have to see that the whole 'Raptor' army was only introduced in the 3.5 edition Codex.
And Raptors were only introduced in 3.0E. What's your point? All the fluff didn't get written down at once.


If you want my opinion, NL are all about image, the scary, terror inducing, super warriors can only be achieved through the models because no army supports that front.
This is pretty much what Raptors do. They even had terrifying visage back in 3.5E, so I recall.

TheMav80
07-01-2011, 21:32
I use an all jump troop Blood Angels list for my Night Lords. Partly because it is small and elite. With no vehicles this makes a very easy army to transport.

My 1750 list contains about 48 models. All with jump packs.

I actually like the background for Night Lords to be stealth experts a lot, but there is no list that represents this.

Draconis
07-01-2011, 21:33
Yep, again, read the novel Lord of the Night. You really will get a scary insight into the minds of these guys. It changed the way I made my NLs army. And played them. They are pretty much like any other army, cept that they like fast, hit and run tactics. And terror. Which is kinda hard to put into the game, but still.

Drakcore Bloodtear
07-01-2011, 21:45
And Raptors were only introduced in 3.0E. What's your point? All the fluff didn't get written down at once.

What I'm trying to say is that he shouldn't be restricted, just because he might use C:CSM doesn't mean he has to use Raptors.

Grunge
07-01-2011, 22:33
I use an all jump troop Blood Angels list for my Night Lords. Partly because it is small and elite. With no vehicles this makes a very easy army to transport.

My 1750 list contains about 48 models. All with jump packs.

I actually like the background for Night Lords to be stealth experts a lot, but there is no list that represents this.

What does your army list look like? I feel the BA Jump Pack list must field 60+ models at 1750 for it to be minimally viable in general.

A Blood Angels list is probably what gives the most Night Lordish feeling when it comes to gameplay and elitness. But that narrows the build down to one. And I wouldn't like to field an all Jump pack army forever. I feel that that build has little variations (as in including Terminators or something like that).

Still, Assault Marines counting as Night Lords and Sanguinary Guard counting as Chosen might be a good starting point on the BA way.

Draconis
07-01-2011, 23:12
Jump pack NL are only one faction of the legion you know. The talonmaster is the one in charge of it. They are sort of broken down like Dark Angels. Whereas DA have deathwing, ravenwing, the NL have factions like that. But they are certainly not limited to jump packs.

WastedWhiteBoy
08-01-2011, 00:17
I'm in the vein that you could field...pretty much any style of an army and still be fluffy to the Night Lords. The stealthy/fast attack thing is a bit over played, IMO. Not saying it is a bad thing, but there are so many other options out there. Terminators teleporting into a city, (sporting Chaos and Night Lord icons) that then proceed to lay waste to everything in their sight is pretty damned scary. So are tanks that rumble into view with the mutilated corpses of their foes attached, broadcasting through loud speakers the sounds of death and destruction.

Bonzai
08-01-2011, 02:15
This is what I'll be fielding for my night lords, using blood angels;

Captain (chaos lord) w/ 2 lightning claws, jump pack
Sanguinary guard (custom made) w/ death masks, chapter banner
3 sanguinary priests (custom made) w/ jump packs
3 sanguinary priests (custom made) w/ 2 bikes, 1 jump pack.
10 Assault squad (raptors) w/ 2 meltas, 2 lightning claws on sgt
10 Assault squad (raptors) w/ 2 meltas, 2 lightning claws on sgt
10 Assault squad (raptors) w/ 2 meltas, 2 lightning claws on sgt
Bike squad (chaos bikes) w/ 7 bikes, pf, 2 melta
Bike squad (chaos bikes) w/ 7 bikes, pf, 2 melta
Total: 1845

With the exception of the sanguinary priests, I wanted to stick to units that could be more or less translated into the CSM dex.