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Nuada
08-01-2011, 18:13
I might be wrong here, but is the setting of 8th edition warhammer fantasy once again a planet inside the 40k universe? (it was in 3rd ed. WH)
The orcs are described as spores that are attached to the underside of the Old Ones spaceship...... did the necrons fight the Old Ones? (my 40k knowledge is limited)



They have all those other empty planets to infest with warhammer races, or even new races. I've always wondered why don't they have new rules and background for an extra planet?*

This new planet could have entirely new background that makes it unique, but it's look is recognized as roughly warhammer era.
For example, Old Ones didn't crash the gates so there's no chaos gates and no daemons on this planet. Maybe chaos dwarfs are the dominant race on this planet. Maybe the high elves are not a dying race. Maybe a few of the races don't exist on this planet. Maybe humans are nothing like the empire, but more like horse lords (rohan and kislev) The permutations are endless.


Just seems to be a potential for something different, but with the warhammer planet it stays fairly static. You could use the same figures, but the setting is different and there might be a twist to your armies.

What do you think? ......a painful idea to comprehend, or a refreshing change?




*please note, i haven't taken into account things such as ...... an extra book GW would want you to buy etc. Let's assume the background and lists are all done as PDF's for free on the GW website. Pigs are flying i know, but this thread isn't really about cost, just imagining the possibilities.

Korraz
08-01-2011, 19:01
They are not connected.

There simply isn't the time for another 14 races.

Sorrow Seer
08-01-2011, 19:03
They are doing an 'alternate' timeline with warhammer forge are they not? Perhaps they will do a non chaos 'alternate' world sometime in the future.

Grimstonefire
08-01-2011, 19:10
New rules, new races, new planet... Sounds like a new game to me.

You are presuming as well that things progressed exactly the same, which wouldn't happen without the presence of chaos, and wouldn't be the same events/ results every time. In this world the elves could have killed everything else for instance.

My understanding of the gate is that it's effectively a dock for space ships. So unless the old ones crashed their ship they would have a gate. The reason the warhammer world gate collapsed would presumably be the same for all gates.

Nuada
08-01-2011, 19:55
They are not connected.

There simply isn't the time for another 14 races.

Oh ok, i thought warhammer and 40k were connected again, but i wasn't sure.

I didn't say another 14 races, i meant the warhammer races on the planet with a slightly different variant to the warhammer world planet. An example.... this planet has big rhino type creatures that the orcs ride to war but there's no spider riders. Most things are the same with a list, but it's a bit different.


@Grimstonefire...... it's the same, but the background has changed and the lists. Yes, that's why i was saying you could a different race that's dominant on the planet, and maybe high elves aren't a dying race. Maybe people can use marauders as norse.

Just seems to be an alternative route. One crowd would stay loyal to the original warhammer world, another crowd might like the new ice planet setting. (or whatever it is)

Col. Tartleton
08-01-2011, 20:01
They are doing an 'alternate' timeline with warhammer forge are they not? Perhaps they will do a non chaos 'alternate' world sometime in the future.

Nope, they sacked Priestly...

RMacDeezy
08-01-2011, 20:20
orcs could be from a planet called drain-o or drain-or or something...what an original idea :shifty:

i believe the link between the 2 has been retconned, as it enrages the majority of the WHFB fan-base to no end...

BigbyWolf
08-01-2011, 21:39
I honestly see them as two separate universes. To me it seems more like the 40K universe is our universe, just in the future, while the WHFB universe is an alternate universe/ dimension to ours that has evolved differently. That's how I'd explain the startling similarities in geography and racial dispersement between our world and WHFB.

Back to GWs way of seeing things...years ago the theory was the worlds were connected through the realm of Chaos, and you could actually reflect it in games. There's nothing like turning up to a battle to find a Chaos Lord mounted on a steed with a lance in one hand and a lascannon perched on his shoulder.

But as RMacDeezy says, this was retconned.

Still Standing
08-01-2011, 21:48
Although they did give out bolt pistols and a power fist in recent campaigns.

Urgat
08-01-2011, 23:03
I might be wrong here, but is the setting of 8th edition warhammer fantasy once again a planet inside the 40k universe? (it was in 3rd ed. WH)
The orcs are described as spores that are attached to the underside of the Old Ones spaceship......

Yeah... just as they were in 7th ed :p

Haravikk
08-01-2011, 23:06
Maybe the Fantasy world collapsed and created the Eye of the Terror, does it matter? I think connecting the two universes would be a bit pointless as it adds nothing to either game.

If you want to shoot some Dwarfs with Space Marines then go right ahead, the saddest part is the Space Marines will probably be slaughtered :D

Still Standing
08-01-2011, 23:10
Maybe the Fantasy world collapsed and created the Eye of the Terror, does it matter? I think connecting the two universes would be a bit pointless as it adds nothing to either game.

If you want to shoot some Dwarfs with Space Marines then go right ahead, the saddest part is the Space Marines will probably be slaughtered :D

They used to. There was rules for fighting against 40k armies with WFB armies, and the WFB usually won. This is back when they were stated as definitely the same universe in the official literature.

Sinnertje
09-01-2011, 02:21
I honestly see them as two separate universes. To me it seems more like the 40K universe is our universe, just in the future, while the WHFB universe is an alternate universe/ dimension to ours that has evolved differently.

interesting that, i generally see it more of a whole seperate universe, but still both are the same. atleast, thats the general idea i get.

i mean sure, gw says it isnt but cmon.
Elves - Eldar
Dark Elves - Dark Eldar
Orcs - Orks
Empire/Bretonnia - Imperial Guard/Space Marines
Chaos - Chaos

People will probably get mad at me for saying that eldar are basically elves in the future, but meh. its what i like to think, even if gw says differently =p

SamVimes
09-01-2011, 02:51
Maybe the Fantasy world collapsed and created the Eye of the Terror, does it matter? I think connecting the two universes would be a bit pointless as it adds nothing to either game.

Eh, I always thought them being connected added a great deal to each setting. Well, actually it adds more to the Fantasy universe than the 40k one IMO. Afterall, 40k has a lot more elbow room in terms of what it's fiction can support. Fantasy has a bit less to work with, due to the inherent limitations of the setting.

Though if they could bring Morrslieb into the game a bit more :shifty:

Geep
09-01-2011, 04:54
GW will probably never come up with a new planet for WHFB. The current background and physical detail to the planet we know is just too much and too iconic- they wouldn't tempt ruining this by splitting their resources and possibly the fanbase with two incredibly different backgrounds.

I mentally edit out the current suggestion of Orc spores being brought by the Old Ones. I prefer the lizardmen book's insinuation that the Old Ones created the Orcs and Goblins durig desperate times, before deciding they were no good and trying to exterminate them, but not being successful (distracting times and all).

AdamAtCollege
09-01-2011, 06:30
People will probably get mad at me for saying that eldar are basically elves in the future, but meh. its what i like to think, even if gw says differently =p

Interesting fact. JRR Tolkien invented the word Eldar which means elf/elves in the Middle Earth world.

Voss
09-01-2011, 07:50
People will probably get mad at me for saying that eldar are basically elves in the future, but meh. its what i like to think, even if gw says differently =p
Why? Eldar were quite obviously and explicitly Space Elves from the get-go. Rogue Trader was designed as Warhammer in Space, which is why there are (or in some cases were) Space Elves, Space Dwarves (Squats), Space Halflings (Ratlings), Space Ogres (Ogryn), Space Beastmen, Space Frogs, and so on.

@bigby- the reason for the warhammer world being earthlike was a combination of laziness and utility. But the in-universe reason was that the Slann engineered it so (to the point of adjusting the planet's orbit), as it was their standard template, with ideal conditions for creating the forms of life they were working on.

Nuada, I'm a little puzzled by the alternate planet thing. It seems unnecessary and actually a little self-defeating. One of GW's strengths is a solid IP (barring random retcons which don't even matter to most people, if they even notice them). If you want to do odd permutations of armies, feel free. Count as and conversions cover a lot, but there isn't any real reason for GW to invest the time and money in a marginally different version of warhammer.

Bergen Beerbelly
09-01-2011, 08:33
interesting that, i generally see it more of a whole seperate universe, but still both are the same. atleast, thats the general idea i get.

i mean sure, gw says it isnt but cmon.
Elves - Eldar
Dark Elves - Dark Eldar
Orcs - Orks
Empire/Bretonnia - Imperial Guard/Space Marines
Chaos - Chaos

People will probably get mad at me for saying that eldar are basically elves in the future, but meh. its what i like to think, even if gw says differently =p

Forgot a few...

Necrons - undead
Dwarfs - Squats
Chaos Dwarfs - Chaos Squats

LordZombie
09-01-2011, 08:44
GW did say that the Blood Bowl reality was different that the Fantasy battle world. Nothing wrong with a new reality to make up a new game or campaign. That way, basic fantasy remains the same.

bert n ernie
09-01-2011, 09:01
There is some correlation even now. For instance the Liber Chaotica is a Warhammer book supposedly written by a man from that world who sees visions of Chaos Space Marines along with Daemons and so on.
I like to think the two story lines are somehow related, but don't feel the need to see an interaction actually occur.

Oh and...
Daemons and Daemons. They stopped trying, didn't they?

Lordsaradain
09-01-2011, 09:30
They have all those other empty planets to infest with warhammer races, or even new races. I've always wondered why don't they have new rules and background for an extra planet?*

This new planet could have entirely new background that makes it unique, but it's look is recognized as roughly warhammer era.
For example, Old Ones didn't crash the gates so there's no chaos gates and no daemons on this planet. Maybe chaos dwarfs are the dominant race on this planet. Maybe the high elves are not a dying race. Maybe a few of the races don't exist on this planet. Maybe humans are nothing like the empire, but more like horse lords (rohan and kislev) The permutations are endless.


Adding a new separate planet would mean that old warhammer armies would be unable to interact with your new armies, fluffwise anyway, as they live on different planets and spacetravel doesn't exist(and frankly has no place in WHFB).

Therefore, I fail to se the point of adding another planet to Warhammer, I would rather see the existing races expanded and developed.

Nuada
09-01-2011, 10:47
Adding a new separate planet would mean that old warhammer armies would be unable to interact with your new armies, fluffwise anyway, as they live on different planets and spacetravel doesn't exist(and frankly has no place in WHFB).

Therefore, I fail to se the point of adding another planet to Warhammer, I would rather see the existing races expanded and developed.

You've missed the whole point though, i'm not suggesting they interact and travel via spaceships. The new planet would have a different background for each race, you wouldn't have a high elf army on the new planet with teclis and tyrion. There would still be high elves, so you wouldn't need to buy another unique army. (i'm just repeating what i said earlier here)
But i'd like the army lists to be slightly different somehow. So maybe 90% of my orc army would be relevant, but on this planet there's some unique unit. (eg. boars don't exist, orcs ride massive rhino type creatures)

All i'm suggesting is something GW encouraged in early editions of warhammer, creating an alternative setting for a change.

Just a change from warhammers...... the world is doomed, man is doomed, dwarfs are a dying race, high elves are dying, chaos will eventually win etc

It also allows them more freedom with the story line. Warhammers background seems forever locked around the point that every army could win or be destroyed. With a new setting they could just go for it and conquer whole areas depending on army victories. Infact you could have a storm of chaos type campaign, with the background changing depending on certain battles (either a tournament, or WD article, or results sent in from players)

Gazak Blacktoof
09-01-2011, 11:09
I think you would simply confuse a lot of people.

It would be an interesting project for a game group to explore (like the ulthuan.net/ druchiii.net alternate setting) but that doesn't require GW's support.

Lordsaradain
09-01-2011, 11:21
Ok, I understand what you are getting at. :)

Basically, you want to remake the warhammer fluff and armybooks, while keeping the models and the same basic ruleset.

It's not a bad idea for creating alternative campaign settings actually. I dont think this is something that GW will attempt, but I don't see why anyone couldn't just sit down with some friends and do it in their spare time.

Although I imagine you could proably place most of these "new ideas" that you come up with into a warhammer world setting as well, there are many unexplored regions and it's not like every individual/army/city is accounted for in the existing fluff.

RMacDeezy
09-01-2011, 13:23
Although they did give out bolt pistols and a power fist in recent campaigns.

dark shadows? hardly recent. 2 editions ago, and likely retconned as well. and something called a "fusil of conflagration" that works like a bolter sounds less like an attempt at linking the 2 game systems and more like laziness inventing new magic items, imo.

SamVimes
09-01-2011, 15:22
All of the albion items were tongue in cheek references to 40k space-marine equipment. The fusil was a flamer btw. Likewise, all of the unique weapons of the amazons in mordheim are from 40k. It wasn't out of laziness, just a sense lighthearted fun.

Grimstonefire
09-01-2011, 15:35
There is a way that you could 'reinvent' the warhammer world. Just base most of the armies and background on the couple of hundred years leading up to and around the collapse of the gates and the coming of chaos.

Obviously there would be limits on the types of armies that could play, skaven couldn't for instance, nor could undead (unless you reinvented the concept to be primitive golem creatures..?).

Empire you could just use various forms of marauders/ marauder chieftans and shamen.

Orcs (without warmachines), Daemons, HE, Dwarfs, Beastmen. Lizardmen, Ogres(?) could all be there with a few adjustments to their lists and some new units.

Vashta
10-01-2011, 14:36
I can't believe this has made a second page and no-one has mentioned Sigmar the space marine yet.

Urgat
10-01-2011, 15:01
dark shadows? hardly recent. 2 editions ago, and likely retconned as well. and something called a "fusil of conflagration" that works like a bolter sounds less like an attempt at linking the 2 game systems and more like laziness inventing new magic items, imo.

Or you can be positive and consider them as being what they probably were: cameos.

SamVimes
10-01-2011, 15:50
I can't believe this has made a second page and no-one has mentioned Sigmar the space marine yet.

There's a pretty good reason for that.

Still Standing
10-01-2011, 17:48
There is a way that you could 'reinvent' the warhammer world. Just base most of the armies and background on the couple of hundred years leading up to and around the collapse of the gates and the coming of chaos.

Obviously there would be limits on the types of armies that could play, skaven couldn't for instance, nor could undead (unless you reinvented the concept to be primitive golem creatures..?).

Empire you could just use various forms of marauders/ marauder chieftans and shamen.

Orcs (without warmachines), Daemons, HE, Dwarfs, Beastmen. Lizardmen, Ogres(?) could all be there with a few adjustments to their lists and some new units.

Surely easier to go 500 years in the future, then you can build on everything there is now without restricting yourself.

N810
10-01-2011, 17:59
Perhaps you could have had some of the races travel through the polargate before it collapsed,
afer all it was used to travel conviently to other plannets, before it collapsed that is.
on that world you could have them efectively closing their gate before it collapsed,
so no deamons on that plannet, or any of the other chaos races, on the other hand
you could have some unique races who inhabited that planet before thy got there.
oh yea and there will probaly be orcs since they are basicly everywhere in the universe.