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View Full Version : So, after 15 years I played in my first tournament today...



Born Again
16-01-2011, 11:18
...and you know what, it was quite fun.

As some of you may be aware by now, I normally shy away from the tournament scene. While I am competitive in that I always play the game to win, I build my lists based on fluff themes or simply what models I like, so they often contain things many would leave out. I've never really had any desire to get involved with a serious tournament based only on winning games with people with army lists tuned to the height of cheesiness. However today, just for fun, my FLGS ran something a bit different... a Kill Team Tournament.

I took my Tau in, with the following list:

* 7 Fire Warriors, photon grenades. 77pts.
One is a specialist with Relentless.
* 10 Kroot. 70pts.
Ones is a specialist with Preferred Enemy.
* XV-8 Crisis suit. Missile Pod, Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker. 50pts.
Specialist with Feel No Pain.
Total 197pts.

The 7 games saw me fighting 2 Dark Eldar armies (one based around Incubi and Beastmaster, the other Incubi/ Wyches), 2 Imperial Guard forces (one made up of gunned-up Vets and a Chimera, the other grunt spam), a Witch Hunter army made up of Sisters packing Meltaguns and riding in an Immolator, a Blood Angels army consisting of Death Company (argh! Feel No Pain everywhere!), and a Tyranid army of Ymgarl Genestealers. Luck (or lack thereof) of the draw meant I didn't get to go up against my girlfriend who was also playing with some Tyranids.

Anyway, I won 5 out of 7 games, losing 1 and drawing 1, placing me in 2nd place in the tournament at the end of the day. Very happy with myself for not only doing so well, but opening up some new ground in my hobby experiences, my first tournament. Granted, it wasn't a regular tournament. There were no major prizes up for grabs, so things were fairly relaxed, and with the nature of the mission it was more of a fun-style thing anyway. But it opened me up to the fact that tournaments don't have to be WAAC, and there are ways around that besides just adding a painting element or sportsmanship points. I'm still not going to be heading out to any regular tournies soon, I'm sure, and will always steer well clear of 'Ard Boyz, but there's no reason a tournament can't just be a bunch of fun games for the bragging rights of who came out on top.

Just thought I'd share, so post your similar stories and discuss :)

Freakiq
16-01-2011, 11:33
Glad to hear it and congratulations on the 2nd place.

I've yet to play in a tournament that is as WAAC as Whineseer paint them up to be. Most tournaments tend to just be an excuse to get together and play.

Simo429
16-01-2011, 11:42
Glad to hear it and congratulations on the 2nd place.

I've yet to play in a tournament that is as WAAC as Whineseer paint them up to be. Most tournaments tend to just be an excuse to get together and play.

Exactly right, neither me or anyone from my gaming group has any regular tournament experience of people who go out of their way to make the game unfriendly.

Surgency
16-01-2011, 15:09
I've yet to play in a tournament that is as WAAC as Whineseer paint them up to be. Most tournaments tend to just be an excuse to get together and play.

Aside from 'Ard Boyz, this has been my tournament experience in every tournament I've competed in. Even 'Ard Boyz has been more about fun, though theres a little more rules bantering going on than in normal tourneys

chromedog
17-01-2011, 00:45
You will get some players whose egos cannot handle the concept of not winning (they can live with a loss, but a draw will drive them nuts).
They are not the majority. You will get cheats, they are not the majority. You will even get complete and utter ******* - these are not the majority.

Then you will get the intenet. These people are not the majority here, either, but follow the premise of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" (they are just the less than silent minority).

Layla
17-01-2011, 14:37
I have not played as long as most of you but I have played in a few tournaments. Most players were there just for fun and the few WAAC players were shunned by everyone else. I found that focusing my attention on those who were there for fun caused me to enjoy myself.

Mini77
17-01-2011, 14:40
Honestly I've met more asses playing in GW stores than I have at tournaments.

SPYDER68
17-01-2011, 15:22
Tourneys can be fun most of the time!

If you go in not expecting to win.. and the goal is just to play some new opponets..

It makes it better.

Doppleskanger
17-01-2011, 15:29
Not a WAAC player myself, but I do attend the odd tournament, normally trying to pick up best painted, which I confess I can be mysteriously competitive about....

The Tournament scene in Ireland isn't that hardcore anyway, but I've found maybe 10% are cheesemongers fighting out for the top spot and everyone else is just along for a good day of 40k nuttiness. I don't remember anyone 'shunning' the top table guys though, there's definitely respect for them...it's just we wouldn't want to be them ;)

Wishing
17-01-2011, 15:42
Not a WAAC player myself, but I do attend the odd tournament, normally trying to pick up best painted, which I confess I can be mysteriously competitive about....

The Tournament scene in Ireland isn't that hardcore anyway, but I've found maybe 10% are cheesemongers fighting out for the top spot and everyone else is just along for a good day of 40k nuttiness. I don't remember anyone 'shunning' the top table guys though, there's definitely respect for them...it's just we wouldn't want to be them ;)

I suppose this is a good way to view any tournament, as basically three events in one. A hardcore tourney for a certain percentage, a "some laughs and meet people" event for the rest, combined with a painting contest. With the key point being that you can enter the tourney for different reasons - wanting to win competitively, wanting to play casually, or wanting to win best painted - with everyone having a good time regardless of their field of interest.

I guess the main thing that prevents that mentality from being the standard is that the casual players tend to not really enjoy being utterly annihilated by the competitive players, which can leave you with a feeling that you have to be competitive to enter. But I'm glad to hear that it doesn't have to be that way (which is my own experience as well, really). As long as you go into it knowing that what matters is just playing some games, and some of those games are likely to be on ultra-hard setting (against the hardcore players) but that's OK, then I think lots of fun can be had in tourneys by all.

SPYDER68
17-01-2011, 15:57
I think what some dont get is you can take a Comptetive list that is fun.. and not WAAC at the same time :P

Less chance of getting tabled..

If you show up with a marine army in 1850 pts.. with 2 ...5 man scout squads for scoring...

Or a 700-900 pt walking squad in power armor...

Omniassiah
17-01-2011, 16:05
Very few tournaments are as bad as most anti-tournament people make them out to be. Most are really just glorified mixers across gaming communities. One of the things I always try to organize afterwords is to get everyone to head out someplace to eat and chat about what went on during the day. So its not uncommon to have 10-20 of us out at a diner/restaurant/bar talking about the great things that happened and the times the Dice Gods had forsaken us.

Still one of my most memorable games come from one of the tournament I was in. Playing against one of the Mechanicon guys, end of game score 0 - 0 (Maximum possible score was 4000). Completely failed to meet any of the mission objectives.

Simo429
17-01-2011, 16:57
Honestly I've met more asses playing in GW stores than I have at tournaments.

And most of them are under 18

Mini77
17-01-2011, 18:17
And most of them are under 18

Probably all of them.

Easy E
17-01-2011, 20:55
Honestly I've met more asses playing in GW stores than I have at tournaments.

Word!

However, I've met more assess in the workplace than anywhere else.

Lothlanathorian
17-01-2011, 21:00
Apparently, in my local scene, a few years ago, there was actually a schism at the FLGS. There were all sorts of gamers, but the organized tournies had fallen aside. A guy got some of his friends together and started a league and began running tournies. These guys were very WAAC individuals and were the reason that I had actually ceased playing years ago and so had several of my friends.

Well, they started a league and would show up and claim all the 40K gaming space on open gaming days before anyone else and would only allow others to play if they were part of their league.

Eventually, the store had to start charging to play on tables (it was having financial difficulties and decided to 'rent' the tables instead of having free use), so this one guy rented the whole room for an entire year and then declared it open gaming for anyone and everyone. The WAAC guys got pissed and stopped playing their and now organize home tournies.

Moral of the story? Iunno. Pretty nifty tale, though.

self biased
17-01-2011, 21:15
I have to chime in here, but could someone kindly define "WAAC?"

Simo429
17-01-2011, 21:18
I have to chime in here, but could someone kindly define "WAAC?"

I believe that everyone has their own definitions. I personally think that warseer over eggs the idea of WAAC players, never come across one myself.

Lothlanathorian
17-01-2011, 21:22
WAAC means 'Win At All Costs'. Guys who don't care who they are beating, so long as they are winning or who see no value in themed friendly games.

Now, not all WAAC gamers are total tools and unforgivable, baby eating monsters, but all of them are in the game for the win, period.

self biased
17-01-2011, 21:23
my google fu is pretty weak right now, guys.

SPYDER68
17-01-2011, 21:38
This forum uses WAAC very very loose....

ALmost around here it seems to be...

1:Uses competetive lists - your a WAAC player.

and i dont feel like listing out the rest..

Surgency
17-01-2011, 21:46
This forum uses WAAC very very loose....

ALmost around here it seems to be...

1:Uses competetive lists - your a WAAC player.

and i dont feel like listing out the rest..

Actually, i think the Warseer definition has expanded to include:

If you want to win, you're a WAAC player

Lothlanathorian
17-01-2011, 21:57
Well, in this thread, in my post, it means 'baby-eating-fun-hater'.

When I use WAAC, in general, I mean someone who builds their lists to crush. In every situation. There is no consideration to your opponent's enjoyment of the game, only what it will take for you to win. I posted with a tale concerning the kind of people who will show up to a friendly, theme based game they aren't playing in and lambaste your unit selection for any number of a myriad of reasons, whether it be 'uncompetitive,' 'weak,' 'useless,' etc.

SPYDER68
17-01-2011, 22:02
Is building an all comers list considered to be building their list to crush an opponet ? :P

I see more bad matchups between "theme" and fluff lists then i do balanced ones..

As the Tyranid player might want a genestealer army.. and the IG player likes lots of chimeras.

self biased
18-01-2011, 02:05
it really depends on the player too. i have a friend of mine who plays chaos, and he's ALWAYS used slaanesh and tzeench. so when he brings a lash prince and thousand suns to the table it's because he's always done so, not because he's some bandwagoning power gamer.

Lord Inquisitor
18-01-2011, 02:32
Note that people have several definitions of WAAC. I don't regard "wanting to win" as WAAC per se. Personally, I have the following:

Competitive player - player that will use the best possible army with the intent of winning. At extremes, this is also known as powergaming. This involves taking "cheesy" options that will allow them to win. However, this in no way requires ruleslawyering, cheating or other unpleasant behaviour.

WAAC - player that absolutely cannot bear to lose, and generally will resort to underhand tactics to achieve this. These include exploiting obvious loopholes, dishonest play (e.g. being inaccurate or vague about army information or trying to manipulate soft scores), obnoxious play or outright cheating, particularly when facing an inexperienced opponent or when losing.

I like to try and keep these separate - I consider myself a competitive player (certainly for tournaments) but I'd be offended at being labelled a WAAC player.

To the OP I'm glad you enjoyed yourself and it sounded like a cool idea for a tournie. Hopefully since you've had your tournie cherry popped as it were, you'll be able to shake off the tournaments-are-full-of-********** perception that seems far too prevalent online.

Born Again
18-01-2011, 05:13
When I use WAAC, in general, I mean someone who builds their lists to crush. In every situation. There is no consideration to your opponent's enjoyment of the game, only what it will take for you to win. I posted with a tale concerning the kind of people who will show up to a friendly, theme based game they aren't playing in and lambaste your unit selection for any number of a myriad of reasons, whether it be 'uncompetitive,' 'weak,' 'useless,' etc.

This is the definition I use. I WANT to win when I play, and I TRY to win. But, as said, I don't sit there and work out the most evil, crushing army ever. Hell, I have Vespid and Sniper Drones in my Tau army, and Spawn in my CSM. I just try hard to win with my Vespid and Spawn :D But people who come up with a truly evil, abusive and barely legal list to crush everything before it, to the point they can just about win before the game has begun... that is WAAC and, not only is it not fun for most opponents, I don't see how it can be fun for them. Sure, winning feels good, but it feels even better when you had a challenge in doing so.

Also, it may not always be the case, but I generally associate WAAC with people with little to no regard for fluff, who may or may not even bother with painting their models.

Real story: My Ork army has a Goff theme. Someone once said to me, "why don't you have Killa Kans? They're really good." I replied "yeah, they're great, especially with grotzookas. But I didn't think Goffs would let weedy little grots have that much fun in a scrap, so went with Deff Dreds instead." The guy just stared at me blankly, blinked a few times and repeated "but why don't you have any? They're really good!" :rolleyes:

Wishing
18-01-2011, 11:28
I don't use the word WAAC, but I agree with Lord Inquisitor that it seems best suited to a player that is competitive in an unhealthy way, ie. gets upset if they lose, cheat and argue about rule interpretations in their advantage. Basically someone who is unpleasant.

I think people probably also often use it about players who who make army lists designed only to win - to crush, as Lothlan puts it - ie. without considerations for background or character. I think both WAAC and power gamer are too negatively loaded terms for this though, as there is nothing unpleasant about this kind of gaming, it is just a very different type of game than casual gaming. I would simply call this a competitive player.

Tymell
18-01-2011, 11:38
Glad to hear it was a pleasant surprise for you, Born Again. I wouldn't mind hearing some details of the games themselves if you can remember them, they sound like fun match-ups.

I've only been to one proper tournament myself. It wasn't a bad experience, the games themselves were fun, but I think I'd prefer smaller scale ones, the one I went too was a bit informal and rushed due to the numbers of folks involved (though it did yield a memorable game in which I got absolutely obliterated, but didn't care because my opponent was so good about it and we both just had a laugh about it).

Fithos
18-01-2011, 19:54
Whenever I play I always build lists with the intent to win. I mean I take units I think are cool like Stormtroopers (which have a pretty bad rep) but I use them effectively and play with the objectives in mind. I play rather competitive lists a lot and so does my brother. I would not consider either of us WAAC players.

what I would consider a WAAC player is someone who spends 25 minutes of a tournament game arguing with an opponent as to if one of his models is within an inch of an enemy on deepstrike so he doesn't have to take a mishap. I really saw this happen once. The model was clearly within an inch and person the guy was playing even asked if that was how he wanted them set up before checking the inch, but my tournament scene seems to get a lot of WAAC players.

I like fluff games, but when I play them me and my opponent usually agree that the game will be in some way fluffy. We agree that it will be a more themed game and write list accordingly. If that is not agreed upon then I write up my list to be as good as it can. To bring anything less to the table is kind of dishonoring your opponent. Please note that when I say best I mean list with the synergy I want, not the power gaming online list of the month.

I am glad to hear that there are non WAAC players in other areas. Now that I just moved I may try another tourny at my new store.

ps For those of you who think all the jerks are the people under age 18, most of the jerks at my last location were 25+. It could be anyone.

SPYDER68
18-01-2011, 19:57
Lord Inquisitor has the definition right on to me..

IcedCrow
18-01-2011, 21:25
WAAC is a timeless word in this hobby lol it's been used for at least over a decade since I've been involved and will probably always be a part of our lexicon.

Most tournaments I've been to were fun. However I found that every tournament for the most part had that one guy. You know that one guy I'm talking about. You may even be that one guy.

That one guy is the one that WAAC definitely applied to. I always seemed to get matched up with him and really that could ruin an entire weekend of tournament gaming to have to play a guy like that.

That was why I got out of the tournament scene long ago. But I realize that that can be silly because the other guys there were a lot of fun to hang out with and play against.

Wishing
18-01-2011, 22:15
WAAC is a timeless word in this hobby lol it's been used for at least over a decade since I've been involved and will probably always be a part of our lexicon.

It's funny, because I've been involved in the hobby since the early 90's, and I've never seen or heard the term used outside of this forum. The nomenclature I'm used to involves "cheesy" (american), "beardy" (british), and the straightforward "power gamer".

Lord Inquisitor
18-01-2011, 22:44
It's funny, because I've been involved in the hobby since the early 90's, and I've never seen or heard the term used outside of this forum. The nomenclature I'm used to involves "cheesy" (american), "beardy" (british), and the straightforward "power gamer".

Agreed, I don't think I came across "WAAC" until relatively recently (certainly within the last 5 years).

But WAAC as I understand (or choose to understand) goes a bit beyond merely being a beardy cheesemonger. I think in the olden days we just called them "cheaters" or "gits"... :p

Bunnahabhain
18-01-2011, 23:02
If playing in a competitive tournament, I will, without shame, take a highly competitive Guard force. List building is ruthless. Besides, having played Guard in 4th ed, I know about the codex power cycle, having been at both ends of it.

However, when I am playing, I am polite, friendly, and compromise with my opponents. If something isn't clear, we come up with a quick and sensible solution, and get on with it...

If I'm playing to win, I do so. However, there is no point in playing if it's not fun for you and you opponent... I'm fairly sure that amkes ie a competive player, not a WAAC jerk...

traeplien
19-01-2011, 07:43
I started collecting 40k stuff about three months before an 'Ard Boyz event. Horrible intro to the hobby, as it's not at all what it's about. However, I've also had the misfortune of playing against a number of players that do try to win at all costs - all the time. However, I've decided to try something new. There's a 2500 point local tournament coming up, and I'm taking an Eldar list that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and I've resigned myself to the fact that no matter what happens, I will have fun, and I will not let WAAC players get me down. Perhaps I'll post the results.

Congratulations on the great tournament, that's really, REALLY refreshing to hear!

bluemage
19-01-2011, 14:05
I don't play in tournaments, only at the local GW or with friends, and I've only ever run accross one WAAC. However there are quite a number of competative players at the store who take optimized lists.