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CJ Linton
20-01-2011, 17:24
Hi all,

I'm thinking of using a mix of Skaven, Humans, Gnoblars and Goblins as Spear and Shield armed Skavenslaves... i'll be mostly using them at a local GW on gamesnights.

A few reasons why...

1. If I had to paint 100 Rats as Slaves i'd probably go mad. In other words it keeps it interesting... painting's not my forté at the best of times.

2. I think they'd ft in as Slaves, obviously giving them a dirty and dishevelled look.

3. Their stats would be as Skavenslaves, not as Human Spearmen for example, I see this as the effect of being a slave, malnourished, unreliable etc.

4. The cornered rats rule could represent the slaves getting their own back on their captors.

So what do you guys think... firstly would it be acceptable in my local GW (I remember a while ago someone once used a coke can as a Dreadnought, so i think it will be). Do you think its a good idea??? Fits in with the Skaven mentality and background???

Love to know your thoughts.

CJ :)

theorox
20-01-2011, 17:26
Yeah, that's great. I say do it. :)

Theo

giant stegadon
20-01-2011, 17:46
It was on the blog & in White Dwarf this month about a guy doing the sea faring clan. In his slave units he has several flagellant models bubbling around & getting stabbed.

Ultimate Life Form
20-01-2011, 17:48
1. If I had to paint 100 Rats as Slaves i'd probably go mad.

I'm already past both. Multiple times actually.

But yeah, sounds great, no reason not to do it.

pointyteeth
20-01-2011, 17:55
Absolutely, go for it. "Counts As" is probably one of my favorite things when it comes to modelling and can create a really unique force on the table.

Robotlord
20-01-2011, 18:16
Plus they are slaves after all. Makes sense that they were captured.

mrtn
20-01-2011, 20:09
There are instances in the fluff mentioning non-skaven slaves, there are more than one human town that has been emptied over night, and the skaven in Crookback Mountain make their fortune by raiding the nearby night goblin tribe and selling them as slaves.

Go for it, you wouldn't be the first.

Malorian
20-01-2011, 20:37
This thread helped me realize that gnoblars would make perfect slaves.

Morkash
20-01-2011, 20:40
In the old White Dwarf list of the Hell Pit it was even recommended to use foot soldiers of other armies as Slaves. :)

Rikkjourd
20-01-2011, 20:50
Try to keep good and evil slaves apart in different units. Humans and dwarves could go in one unit, while gnoblars, gobboz and possibly skaven could go in another. There is no way that a dwarf and a greenskin will go together. At least the dwarf would rather die ten times over. IMHO.

Malorian
20-01-2011, 20:54
Try to keep good and evil slaves apart in different units. Humans and dwarves could go in one unit, while gnoblars, gobboz and possibly skaven could go in another. There is no way that a dwarf and a greenskin will go together. At least the dwarf would rather die ten times over. IMHO.

I find it hard to believe a dwarf would be taken prisioner rather than dying in a last stand in the first place...

Urgat
20-01-2011, 21:03
This thread helped me realize that gnoblars would make perfect slaves.

Actually, fluff-wise, I think they'd make terrible slaves :p As for the topic, well, it's a common thing to do, so go for it :) You can put pretty much everything in there, imho, apart from saurus or chaos warriors, everything would make a propper slave I believe.


I find it hard to believe a dwarf would be taken prisioner rather than dying in a last stand in the first place...

There's a few accounts of dwarf slaves in the night goblin fluff, and I remember at least one time in some DE fluff, about a bunch of slaves trying to flee, including a dwarf or two (I don't remember if they suceed or not). Even in a last stand, you can get captured alive if you're vastly outnumberd and clubbed out of consciousness (or netted in the ase of night gobs).


Try to keep good and evil slaves apart in different units. Humans and dwarves could go in one unit, while gnoblars, gobboz and possibly skaven could go in another. There is no way that a dwarf and a greenskin will go together. At least the dwarf would rather die ten times over. IMHO.

I think they'd all be too focused on surviving and waiting for an opportunity to run away to even care about what stands next to them. The trouble would most likely arise when it's time to fight for the "meal"...

Clanrat
20-01-2011, 21:15
well, my army is led by Queek, so my slave units are now my old Bfsp NGobbos :)...
Mixed up wityh a few spare packmasters (to whip em into going the right direction) and ive got a unit that is fluffy, cool looking and lets me paint something a bit different. In fact im considering getting more gobbos :)#

CJ Linton
21-01-2011, 03:46
Cheers for the replies guys :)

mrtn
21-01-2011, 05:00
There's a few accounts of dwarf slaves in the night goblin fluff, and I remember at least one time in some DE fluff, about a bunch of slaves trying to flee, including a dwarf or two (I don't remember if they suceed or not). Even in a last stand, you can get captured alive if you're vastly outnumberd and clubbed out of consciousness (or netted in the ase of night gobs).Dwarf slaves are highly prized as they are hard workers (and they can't make something shoddy, even if they try) and long lived. I think they've built quite a bit in Naggaroth. That said, the dwarf slaves I have are crippled, one without a leg and the other without an eye.

pacmanswang
21-01-2011, 12:05
re: Dwarfs

dying as some pathetic slave is no death for a clansman, but surviving long enough to escape and put it in the book of grudges (even going on to avenge said grudge), that is truely a noble act.

Haravikk
21-01-2011, 12:05
A box or two of Flagellants and Free Company could make awesome additions to slaves. If you paint them just to be scruffy then you could probably still use them in an Empire army as well :)

Rikkjourd
21-01-2011, 13:02
I find it hard to believe a dwarf would be taken prisioner rather than dying in a last stand in the first place...

Yeah, true. But if one wanted to have one of those rare prized dwarves in his unit, he would probably fit better with other good slaves than with gobboz...

Personally I think the idea is kind of stupid anyway, because they would just immediately switch sides if they faced the right opponents. A human might fight for his life against gobboz, but if he was sandwiched between say elves and skaven it is pretty obvious which side he would take at first opportunity.

If you have spare pack masters they look awesome in slave units. I have included a few which have raised bases compared to their minions (also they act a little bit like unit fillers, saving me a few models hehe)

Korraz
21-01-2011, 15:31
Logically, using slaves of other races is a...horrible...horrible...horrible idea.
Sure, giving your slaves weapons, freeing them of enough chains to move freely and getting them close to their people is bound to work great.

The only reason why regular slaves do not turn on their herders is that they are terrible cowards and simply do not have a place to run to. They have no choice, nowhere to go.

amysrevenge
21-01-2011, 16:23
Regardless of the logical reasons why it wouldn't work, from a hobby perspective I think you can probably go a long way with non-Skaven Skavenslaves.

To do it proper would take a lot of work (properly converting normal models into slaves with greenstuff), but even if you just do it with the right choice of paints you can probably make a good go at it.

And as long as they are GW models, I don't think a GW store will care one way or the other...

pacmanswang
21-01-2011, 16:44
alot of people seem to be ignoring the fact that

a: slaves will not always be used against races that would allow them to live if they turned against their masters

and

b: slaves will not always be used in pitched battles. there are more than enough accounts of skaven attacking fortified defenses such as castles and keeps with slaves simply as a way of wearing down the enemy. when faced with attacking a keep or instant death i know alot of races would prefer taking their chances at the keep.

edit:

also i love the idea that you could make unit fillers with humans chained up to a slavemaster holding a simple weapon such as a broken shield, a rusty dagger or even a broken beer bottle. slaves have poor statlines for a reason.

(also you could always model a slave or two revolting as a unit filler aswell considering the inevitable unit size.)

Darwin_green
21-01-2011, 16:47
I find it hard to believe a dwarf would be taken prisioner rather than dying in a last stand in the first place...

you'd be amazed by the power of a warpstone lobotomy.

amysrevenge
21-01-2011, 17:53
you'd be amazed by the power of a warpstone lobotomy.

What a lovely modelling opportunity as well!

Darwin_green
21-01-2011, 18:29
Drill a small hole in a dwarf's head, and glue in a pebble and paint it green.

theorox
22-01-2011, 10:33
Drill a small hole in a dwarf's head, and glue in a pebble and paint it green.

Brilliant! :D

Theo

Urgat
22-01-2011, 14:10
Personally I think the idea is kind of stupid anyway, because they would just immediately switch sides if they faced the right opponents. A human might fight for his life against gobboz, but if he was sandwiched between say elves and skaven it is pretty obvious which side he would take at first opportunity.

Really? How long would it take for the slave to realise that the elves don't care about him and still cut him down, skaven or not skaven? Even an Empire general would kill the slave. I mean, he's lived with skavens? Those things that spread viruses around? Or are likely to have stuck some horrible device to the runaway dude? I know I wouldn't take the chance, and the running slave would take an arrow. I'm not sure even the dwarfs would take the chance during a battle. It's warhammer, not the UNO :p Anyway, the certain death is not from the side you think it would come, imho. And I'll raise the question: why wouldn't the skaven slaves run too? They're treated like filth, they hate their existence, they're doomed as much as non skaven slaves. They could run and get lost in the tunnels in hope of a better fate, just as much as any other slave. So in short, if the skavens run slaves in their battles, certainly they have the means to keep them in check.

Korraz
22-01-2011, 14:36
A human slave can just leg it, away from the battle.
A Skaven has nowhere to go.

Artinam
22-01-2011, 15:29
Its definately a cool idea. Maybe put some taskmaskers within the unit to maintain order. Or some ratling guns with some Commissar rats in the back.

Urgat
22-01-2011, 15:42
A human slave can just leg it, away from the battle.
A Skaven has nowhere to go.

A skaven has thousands of kilometers of underground tunnels and a crowd of millions, maybe billions of anonymous skaven where to lose itself.

Korraz
22-01-2011, 17:42
It's also miserable, chained, branded and stinks of fear and slavery and is quite weak, making it easy prey and identifiable as a slave.
Now, an ambitious Skaven will of course take the opportunity to flee, or to kill his slaver, fellow slaves or do something else to raise in power. However, for the most Skaven the fact that they are slaves rules this out in the first place.

rodmillard
22-01-2011, 17:54
re: Dwarfs

dying as some pathetic slave is no death for a clansman, but surviving long enough to escape and put it in the book of grudges (even going on to avenge said grudge), that is truely a noble act.

Why put it in the book of grudges? you only need to escape for long enough to find a pharmacy selling orange hair dye...

Astraeos
23-01-2011, 00:28
I've thought about doing this myself if I ever got round to doing a Skaven army (Skaven being the fantasy army I never get round to collecting, Orks being my WH40K one!) But it would be mainly so I won't accidentally mistake them for being Clanrats though.
It'll be good for adding some fluff to the army though.

Middenmordheimer
23-01-2011, 00:42
Not that i play skaven but i was thinking of something like that this week. It would be cool if some of them were converted to look like clan skyre had there dirty paws on them, so they have marks from surgery or mechanical limbs or bit of warpstone hanging off them or what not.
Also just for fun have a valten champion of sigmar model converted to look like hes been enslaved and made into a skaven machine... If valten ever existed that is...

TrojanWolf
23-01-2011, 11:21
I say use anything and everything you can lay your hands on for slaves! My one slave unit is nothing but red-crested Skinks that have had some crests and tails removed, along with a couple of arms. All have lash marks across their backs, some have it on their faces too. I'll probably be getting some more later when I want to add to the unit.

You couldn't half-tell that I hate Lizardmen, right?

Rikkjourd
23-01-2011, 21:33
Really? How long would it take for the slave to realise that the elves don't care about him and still cut him down, skaven or not skaven? Even an Empire general would kill the slave. I mean, he's lived with skavens? Those things that spread viruses around? Or are likely to have stuck some horrible device to the runaway dude? I know I wouldn't take the chance, and the running slave would take an arrow. I'm not sure even the dwarfs would take the chance during a battle. It's warhammer, not the UNO :p Anyway, the certain death is not from the side you think it would come, imho. And I'll raise the question: why wouldn't the skaven slaves run too? They're treated like filth, they hate their existence, they're doomed as much as non skaven slaves. They could run and get lost in the tunnels in hope of a better fate, just as much as any other slave. So in short, if the skavens run slaves in their battles, certainly they have the means to keep them in check.

Really? There is no reason to believe that an army would kill POWs when they can rescue them without effort... Even if you faced an army that wouldn't want to rescue them, they still would HOPE to be rescued and still TRY to escape, not fight against the only hope they have. You can't convince anyone that a captured human would choose to first fight a hopeless battle where he would probably die in some meaningless way while trying to kill someone he really don't want to, then return to slavery under the skaven which is basically the same as being tortured to death, instead of taking his chances with his friends (or at least not enemies).

Skaven slaves are completely different. You say that they would probably scurry off in the tunnels or whatever. Guess what, they do all the time... It's just that there are millions, perhaps billions of them so it doesn't matter. And skaven probably don't suffer as much as humans do in slavery. Filth, cannibalism, overcrowdedness, working in complete darkness knee-deep in feces and so on are fine, because they would live like that anyway even if they weren't slaves!