View Full Version : Chaos Raptors - a dumb question?

21-01-2011, 14:41
The dumb question? Before I start building some plastic Raptors for my Night Lords, can anyone tell if there is any point in taking plasma pistols for the regular guys? I just want to make sure I'm not missing some vital point here:

I can pay 15 points to replace a bolt pistol with a pp, leaving me with 2 attacks, 12" range, str7 and AP2 (obvious so far).
I can pay 10 points to ADD a meltagun to my bp and ccw, still leaving me the same attacks and range, but with str8, AP1, Melta and no Gets Hot.

So for 5 points less, I have no risk, better stats and NO downside! So, what am I missing here?
I don't want another 'Geedub neva chex their rulz, lol' thread, just wondering what I'd missed and if other CSM players had spotted the same thing.

**pants, I posted this is the wrong place somehow! How can I move it?**

21-01-2011, 14:45
First of all, wrong forum ;).

On topic, you're not missing anything, just take the Meltaguns. It's one of many mistake in that book.

21-01-2011, 14:59
Too many people equipped thier Raptors with Plasma Pistols so GW had to make them the less attractive option so people bought new models.

21-01-2011, 15:10
That's it exactly - all of my experience playing against raptors (and assault marines) is that pp was the standard choice; now it's idiocy to take it: you're overpaying for something worse for your standard Raptors, and the idea of killing my powerfist-toting champion through overheat before he's had a chance to smush things for the glory of Chaos is unattractive.
So, anyone want to buy some plasma pistols from me?!

22-01-2011, 00:02
Oh yes, I would love a unit like that for my WoC, but I would take flamers, autohitting S4 templates is so awesome versus all those horde units :p

22-01-2011, 00:17
Wait, wait, wait, they did that to Chaos raptors because too many people took plasma pistols so they kneecapped 'em?!?

That just motivates me to ask. When did they decide to do that to every codex and how do we get them to stop?

22-01-2011, 01:07
You're not missing anything. I would take meltaguns everytime.

Dragoon King
22-01-2011, 02:15
I still run a squad with PP.....dang it, I'd repressed the fact that I need to change those to flamers at least.

22-01-2011, 03:20
Keep in mind that the chaos codex was released back in 4th ed when pistols could still double tap in certain circumstances...still not worth the extra points, but it might be an explanation?

Stealin' Genes
22-01-2011, 05:30
Was that a 4e rule? I know pistols worked that way in 3e but dunno about 4e; honestly even when it was possible I don't think I've ever seen anyone stand still to take the extra shot.

22-01-2011, 05:34
Not even techmarines with servo harnesses on relentless bikes?

22-01-2011, 06:19
It was actually worth it with Eldar Pathfinders. Sometimes.

22-01-2011, 09:29
That just motivates me to ask. When did they decide to do that to every codex and how do we get them to stop?

I'd say the tendency has been pretty visible from the transfer from 2nd to 3rd edition onwards. :P

When apparently trying to "fix" either overpowered or useless units/weapon combos, they have a distinct tendency to overcompensate. Good becomes bad, bad becomes uber. Since they are in the miniature-making business, it's hard to imagine this is accidental. :)

22-01-2011, 16:47
LOL I usually run one Melta, one flamer.

I do include a PP on the Champ though.

22-01-2011, 18:27
I'm guessing it's because they introduced multi-weapon loadouts in that codex and raptors were just put in line with the rest. Because they didn't have bolters to begin with, plasma pistols got skewed in the process.

Iron Soul
23-01-2011, 01:02
I feel GW just had problems balancing the weapon options of different squads. Berserkers can't take melta/flamer but can take PP. And the games designers thought that was worth 15 pts per guy. So they couldn't give the same option to the faster Raptors for less, cause that would look weird. But you're right, the meltas are a much better option for the Raptors. It's just one of the many problems with the Chaos codex.

Lord Inquisitor
23-01-2011, 01:18
So they couldn't give the same option to the faster Raptors for less, cause that would look weird.
Why would it be weird? It's done regularly with heavy weapons and other equipment like icons (see terminator icon costs).

There just isn't a good reason. It's an oversight, plasma pistols are normally costed at 15 points. Loyalist assault squads pay 15 points, but then they don't have access to melta and taking a special weapon loses them the additional combat weapon. Then again, most codecies have "no brainer" options. It's not like Chaos Raptors even with 2x meltaguns are actually any good. Sadly, they suck.

Annoyingly, Chaos Bikers, which actually do have to replace their CCW to take a special weapon, can't take plasma pistols as special weapons. Wierd.

23-01-2011, 18:29
They suck? I do wonder how you came to that conclusion. Is it that other codices have similar but subtly better units, so anything worse than that sucks?

A few points more or less makes big fat ****-all difference.