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bossfearless
24-01-2011, 20:47
Here's something that has bothered me a long time, since the very start of 3rd ed. Space marines don't have any "special weapon squads." What I mean is that there are no squads whose sole purpose is to equip ,say, 4 plasma guns or 4 flamers and mount up in a Rhino. This would be a great choice for a Fast Attack slot, and I have held that opinion since 3rd edition (before anyone accuses me of just wanting to bulk out my Vulkan power build lol). Sisters have Dominions, Chaos have Havocs and Chosen (IIRC they can take lots of special weapons), DE have Kabalite Trueborn and Scourges, and IG has special weapon squads and Veteran Squads. Even Eldar Fire Dragons more or less fill that same role, though they are limited to fusion guns (still great!) and Orks have Flash Gits, which are bad from what I've heard but still sort of do that same job.

Aside from Vulkan lists, which likely won't be in the next 'dex, why don't the marines have this option? It could easily be described as part of the Devastator company, or an extension of the Battle companies' natural role.

izandral
24-01-2011, 20:51
wouldn't sternguard fill that role

TheLaughingGod
24-01-2011, 20:55
Here's a crazy thought: Maybe Marines don't need EVERYTHING?

..think about it.

theJ
24-01-2011, 20:56
I'd be up for letting tac squads take double special weapons as an alternative to one special and one heavy, but other than that, what Izandral said.

WhatsHisName
24-01-2011, 20:57
i think you may want check out the command squad option ... ;)

Jackmojo
24-01-2011, 20:59
It would have been an interesting option if Sternguard had unlimited access to alternate weapon choices (specials and heavies), as it stands they're still a fine choice, but that would have certainly been neat.

Jack

aka_mythos
24-01-2011, 21:00
Relative to a lasgun all bolters are "special weapons" and thus all space marines squads are "special weapons squads."


It would have been an interesting option if Sternguard had unlimited access to alternate weapon choices (specials and heavies), as it stands they're still a fine choice, but that would have certainly been neat. When you look at what the different special ammos do, they effectively turn each bolter into a pseudo-special weapon, that sit in the lower registers of the traditional "special weapon" category.

Aegius
24-01-2011, 21:05
you can take 4 special weapons in a command squad. you get FNP thrown into the bargain too.

Simo429
24-01-2011, 21:28
Orks also have burner boyz, saw at a tournie last weekend how potent they can be

RunepriestRidcully
24-01-2011, 22:13
The layalist marines already have better examples of every other tank type/unit the other armies have, could we have at least one sort of squad where you just don't go "loyalist marines have it better", they have better psykers then Eldar and Thousand Sons which last I checked, were the supposed master of psykers.

Kroot Lord
24-01-2011, 22:20
Here's a crazy thought: Maybe Marines don't need EVERYTHING?

..think about it.

It's a whine...no...

It's a complaint...no...

IT'S CAPTAIN COMMON SENSE TO THE RESCUE!

DJ3
24-01-2011, 22:31
When you look at what the different special ammos do, they effectively turn each bolter into a pseudo-special weapon, that sit in the lower registers of the traditional "special weapon" category.

On top of which, every Sternguard can take a combi-special for cheap, and retain all their special ammo benefits.

Sternguard decked out with five Combi-Meltas is incredibly common, and how often are you going to need more than ~5 Melta shots?

Between that and Command Squads, I'm not entirely sure this guy has actually read the Codex.

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
24-01-2011, 22:34
Relative to a lasgun all bolters are "special weapons" and thus all space marines squads are "special weapons squads.

Tell the Sisters that. They have Dominions, a special weapon squad that has to be in a vehicle.

The Marshel
24-01-2011, 23:31
Here's a crazy thought: Maybe Marines don't need EVERYTHING?

..think about it.

I dont think thats particularly fair. i dont believe the marines need it, nor do i think i would care much either way, but reasonable precedent exist in a good number of armies that operate similarly to the marines, as well as csm, who are marines.

Just cause marines have a lot does not mean they deserve to be neglected, and besides, we still don't have MC, proper heavy gun tanks, cheap spammable infantry, a great big list of nasty super heavies for appoc etc etc.

this isnt a unit that would be retconed from some other army, this is a logical expansion for any army that operates like marines

Mannimarco
25-01-2011, 00:54
Just cause marines have a lot does not mean they deserve to be neglected, and besides, we still don't have MC, proper heavy gun tanks, cheap spammable infantry, a great big list of nasty super heavies for appoc etc etc.

Marines neglected, possibly the funniest thing I have read all day. Marines arnt neglected, quite the opposite in fact. You want to see what a neglected army looks like? Try the witch hunter, daemon hunter and necron armies.

Be happy with what you have, you might even realise marines (most variants) actually have it pretty good compared to everybody else. Your psykers are already better than most other races psykers etc. Theres no need to latch on to everything else from other books and try to justify the SM getting it.

An army is not only defined by what it has but also what it does not have, personally Id rather not have this scenario:

You want an army that relies on its chain of command, heavy reliance on those in charge to provide benefits to the grunts, try the imperial guard with their orders....or marines

You want to pound your enemy into submission with a wall of armour raining death from the other side of the board, try the imperial guard tanks......or marines

You want to bury your opponent under a sea of cheap expendable infantry, try the orks or nids....or marines

You dont like the idea of waves of cheap infantry, you like great big stompy monsters smashing their enemies aside like sauron from the start of LOTR, try nids or daemons.....or marines.

The marine players want special weapon squads like my CSM havocs? I suppose thats fair, a marine is a marine after all so you can have havocs and Ill take decent psyker powers, land speeders, land raider variants, razorbacks, special characters that buff my army etc, fairs fair after all because a marine is a marine is a marine.

Its a sad day when we see marine whine fests of "whaaa they have somthing I dont". Well diddums There are armies out there that would kill for a fraction of all the new shiny stuff the marines get.

Give them a coulple of years, Im sure GW will eventually move everything over to the marines anyway, gotta keep the marine players happy ya know.

ehlijen
25-01-2011, 00:57
Space marines have assault squads that can take two of some of the special weapons and they don't have to take jump packs. No, it's not 4 meltaguns, but it is a special weapon squad.

DJ3
25-01-2011, 01:04
Space marines have assault squads that can take two of some of the special weapons and they don't have to take jump packs. No, it's not 4 meltaguns, but it is a special weapon squad.


Just Flamers for Vanilla SM, and let's be serious, when someone says "special weapon squad" they mean "a pile of dudes with Meltaguns."

If they have access to a lot of these things, that statement is then ammended to "...and maybe we'll give some of them Plasma Guns instead."

ehlijen
25-01-2011, 01:22
Assault marines also get plasma pistols.

And I pity those who think melta is the only useful special weapon.

TheMav80
25-01-2011, 02:03
Command Squads, Sternguard, Vanguard, Wolf Guard are all pretty good examples that exist already.

riotknight
25-01-2011, 03:56
Space Marines from C:SM are meant to follow the strict doctrine of Codex Astartes. They have access to the weapons set forth at the first founding. To deviate from this would no longer make them Codex, they would then follow the specifics as detailed by other Chapters/Legion books.

I suggest you look to them.

MOMUS
25-01-2011, 06:02
I always thought it was strange (fluff-wise) why IG could take more specials (esp melta/plasma) per trooper than SM.

Lord-Caerolion
25-01-2011, 06:10
I always thought it was strange (fluff-wise) why IG could take more specials (esp melta/plasma) per trooper than SM.

Because the Guard have to have some weapons capable of killing the enemy!:p

Sorry, but it had to be said.

Mannimarco
25-01-2011, 06:12
Because the Guard have to have some weapons capable of killing the enemy!:p

Sorry, but it had to be said.

Guardsmen can kill their enemy quite easily, for most of the races they fight all they need to do is get stuck in its throat so it chokes to death, another glorious victory for the guard!

Lord-Caerolion
25-01-2011, 06:16
"Men, I want you to run straight at him. When he blows you up with his rocket launcher, try to have your giblets clog his rocket launcher!"

The Marshel
25-01-2011, 08:12
Marines neglected, possibly the funniest thing I have read all day. Marines arnt neglected, quite the opposite in fact. You want to see what a neglected army looks like? Try the witch hunter, daemon hunter and necron armies.

I've worded my point poorly it seems. i am not suggesting marines are neglected. I'm just saying to ignore an obvious inclusion the in marine list on the basis of "we have lots already" is poor policy

HerrDusty
25-01-2011, 10:11
I've worded my point poorly it seems. i am not suggesting marines are neglected. I'm just saying to ignore an obvious inclusion the in marine list on the basis of "we have lots already" is poor policy

Basically you want something another army has. If you want it that bad, go play the other army.

Also, it's already been mentioned that Command Squads and Sternguard squads already can take multiple special weapons.

Hell, if you want multiple plasmaguns/meltaguns that bad, play Space Wolves. They can take two per Grey Hunter squad. And they get one of those for free.