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Stickmonkey
25-01-2011, 18:11
SM here, I debated posting anything, but some others have persuaded me. I have just a few things for the rumored summer of fliers I first mentioned here.

Still rumored as July wd rule set
Apoc style rules, strafing/bombing runs, rapid insertion/extraction, special missions, dogfighting?
Thunder hawk is NOT likely
Codex based releases...
Dark eldar raven
Eldar night wing?
Ig hydra
Nid harpy
Non codex releases...
Ig thunderbolt
Csm hell blade
Tau remora
No necron release?
Ork fighta/bomma
No SM release?

Suspected non codex releases will only be rules...models already FW...

Necrons may get something with their codex.

Raven/night wing likely to be combined kit.

So that's pretty limited, 3 kits and wd rules. But it sounds like it's in the typical wheelhouse.

Probably disappointing news to many, but in light of some of the other speculation running I decided to put some info out.

Petay1985
25-01-2011, 18:15
I will ask the question this bound to crop up many many times over the life time of this thread: 'is the Stormraven Gunship likely to be made available to all Marine players? or will this presumably be covered in the reference to apocalypse style rules?'

Thanks for posting fella, your rumours/rumour control is always welcomed.

WildWeasel
25-01-2011, 18:16
Nothing about general access for the Stormraven? :D

Erwos
25-01-2011, 18:18
I look forward to the newly-enabled Hydra spam!

IAMNOTHERE
25-01-2011, 18:20
I'll bite, what's a Hydra?

Oh and thank you Stickmonkey - rumours are always welcome imo.

suprememidgetoverlord
25-01-2011, 18:21
I was wondering that myself, if not all armies get acess to flyers, maybe anti-aircraft could compensate for those armies.

Looking forward to add to my eldar flyer squadron!

madden
25-01-2011, 18:30
Hydra is an imp guard tank designed for anti air use has rules for killing fast skimmers etc in it's dex, hope it's more useful in this "flyers" supplement than regular games.

daemonicemission
25-01-2011, 18:37
Seems pretty lackluster.

SteelSpectre
25-01-2011, 18:39
Awesome, I love the Hydra, but the Forgeworld one is just so damn expensive. This is a very smart move on GWs part. I'm actually surprised they waited so long.

pingo
25-01-2011, 18:43
Seems pretty lackluster.

I don't agree. At least 3 fairly hefty new plastic kits, for at least 3 different armies, along with some rules to play a variation on the game sounds like a pretty good month of 40K to me.

Keeps things fresh while we wait for a new codex and accompanying models to be ready.

Let's face it, a new flyer kit for every army all in one month would be somewhat optimistic. Would be awesome, but unlikely.

ForgottenLore
25-01-2011, 18:44
Thanks for the info SM. Just had a quick question.


Thunder hawk is NOT likely

"Not likely" implies that there is a slight chance which implies that they are working on a T-Hawk kit.

Did you mean to imply that?

Would just like to see some clarification before people start running wild with assumptions.

IAMNOTHERE
25-01-2011, 18:47
Oh! That Hydra! Doh!

bentley cat
25-01-2011, 18:52
lovin the idea of a fliers expansion especially as i will be adding some hydra's to my guard know that they wont cost me a kings ransom

Promethius
25-01-2011, 19:06
A hydra would make me a very happy panda. I wonder if it would include other options in the kit?

Three plastic releases sounds quite reasonable for a 'splash' release. Not sure what the Tau one is though? A kind of gun drone?

ForgottenLore
25-01-2011, 19:15
Not sure what the Tau one is though? A kind of gun drone?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/TAU-REMORA-DRONE-STEALTH-FIGHTERS.html

Sort of a Tau UAV, bigger than a typical drone but too small to have a crew.

MoonlightSonata
25-01-2011, 19:56
Necrons (very probably) inexplicably left out again. *groans loudly*

Shamana
25-01-2011, 20:10
Hydra is an imp guard tank designed for anti air use has rules for killing fast skimmers etc in it's dex, hope it's more useful in this "flyers" supplement than regular games.

Cheap chimera-chassis unit with 2 TL autocannons (and a heavy bolter, just in case) that ignore cover saves from flat-out movement/turboboost ? Sounds pretty useful already.

The Apocalypse anti-air units were a good deal more useful with the flyer hitting rules and the vast majority of fliers being 10/10/10 (congrats, Valkyrie/Vendetta/Storm Raven), but I guess we'll see how that works. Just to be clear, are we expecting a specialized book here?

GrogDaTyrant
25-01-2011, 20:17
I'm not really that saddened about not getting a Fightabomma model. But they better make the rules have plenty of options and upgrades to compensate for the scratchbuilds.

Goatboy
25-01-2011, 20:20
Thx for the info Stickmonkey.


Necrons (very probably) inexplicably left out again. *groans loudly*

Most likley due to a new full dex being not far off.

Astraeos
25-01-2011, 20:36
Thanks for the rumours Stickmonkey.

I love seeing new kits, even if they're not for an army I collect. Needless to say I'm looking forward to what the Eldar/Dark Eldar flyers and Harpy look like.

dante76
25-01-2011, 20:37
I will ask the question this bound to crop up many many times over the life time of this thread: 'is the Stormraven Gunship likely to be made available to all Marine players? or will this presumably be covered in the reference to apocalypse style rules?'

Thanks for posting fella, your rumours/rumour control is always welcomed.

Feb White Dwarf will include rules for Stormraven for all chapters..

Starchild
25-01-2011, 20:39
Seems pretty lackluster.Agreed, just like Spearhead was underwhelming. :(


I wonder when GW will realize that it's impossible to fully replace Epic 40,000 with Warhammer 40,000 models. :rolleyes:

The vehicle models are just too expensive and time consuming (imo) to justify large collections of them, unless the (having wealthy parents) player is happy with unpainted/base coated models.

This is why GW's attempts at making 40k into Epic will always fail...



Necrons (very probably) inexplicably left out again. *groans loudly* But you have the Pylon from Forgeworld, which IIRC is anti-aircraft capable (effectively the Necron equivalent of the Hydra or Firestorm). Just saying... :D

Dvora
25-01-2011, 20:46
Thanks for the rumors Sir.

By the way, I hope the Storm Raven stays exclusive.

burni
25-01-2011, 20:47
I've felt pretty skeptical about a 'summer of flyers' release - the thought of multiple, large, limited use models for races like Tau and Eldar just didn't seem realistic (as much as I'd like to have plastic Tau aircraft).

However this list seems very plausible - 3 'codex' kits plus rules for using Forgeworld kits alongside the few codex flyers - it feels about right.

Still, until we get an 'Incoming: Flyers" email in May (2 months before isn't it?), I'll remain a bit skeptical if you don't mind :)

Dvora
25-01-2011, 20:48
Feb White Dwarf will include rules for Stormraven for all chapters..

It doesn't.

Petay1985
25-01-2011, 20:48
Feb White Dwarf will include rules for Stormraven for all chapters..

This has been widely discredited in the 'stormraven' thread by folk who say they have read the White dwarf issue in question, most of whom have a good track record, hence my question here.

Faeslayer
25-01-2011, 21:03
I'm not really that saddened about not getting a Fightabomma model. But they better make the rules have plenty of options and upgrades to compensate for the scratchbuilds.

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. More options, and something to make Fightas worth taking alongside Fighta-Bommas.

Rod Hull
25-01-2011, 21:12
This has been widely discredited in the 'stormraven' thread by folk who say they have read the White dwarf issue in question, most of whom have a good track record, hence my question here.

Didn't they say that the rules are there but that they do not specifically say "any Marine army blah blah" ?

In which case, why are they reprinting rules in WD for something already in the Blood Angels codex, with the Grey Knights book imminent.

Fable
25-01-2011, 21:18
I'm not really that saddened about not getting a Fightabomma model. But they better make the rules have plenty of options and upgrades to compensate for the scratchbuilds.

Remember, not getting a model at the supplement release doesn't mean you won't get one when your codex is redone. Also, Orks have a plastic titan, so there's always that.

I'd be very surprised if they released the Nightwing and Raven as a combined kit, if only because I can't think of another time GW released a single box that was supposed to cover two races. Even Chaos get their own boxes for imperial stuff with extra spikey sprues and minor weapon variations.

neko
25-01-2011, 21:23
"Not likely" implies that there is a slight chance which implies that they are working on a T-Hawk kit.

Did you mean to imply that?
In the world of rumours, there's always a slim chance ;)

Azzy
25-01-2011, 21:29
Y'know, IMO, the Tau (and possibly Eldar) tanks should be treated as fliers in such a supplement... after all haven't they been depicted as such in the art?


Didn't they say that the rules are there but that they do not specifically say "any Marine army blah blah" ?

Yup.


In which case, why are they reprinting rules in WD for something already in the Blood Angels codex, with the Grey Knights book imminent.

Because they personally hate you with the force of a billion suns and are sadistic bastards to boot.

The WD issue in question is heavily BA themed from all accounts, putting in the stats and points may just be a marketing tool to interest non-BA players to go red. Alternately, it may have originally been planned to grant general access to the SRaven, but the decision was reversed at the last minute. Who knows... you'd have to ask the people at WD if you want the facts.

DuskRaider
25-01-2011, 21:41
Kind of glad I bought more Hell Blades and Hell Talons now, lol. Thanks eBay!

Dreachon
25-01-2011, 22:07
Kind of glad I bought more Hell Blades and Hell Talons now, lol. Thanks eBay!

I have 3 hellblades and 1 helltalon ready for take off, still if we might get a plastic version that would be very nice.
Still time for more chaotic death from above.

DuskRaider
25-01-2011, 23:10
I very highly doubt they'll make Hell Blades or Hell Talons in plastic.

Necromion
25-01-2011, 23:27
So, since it doesnt look like Necrons are getting a flyer does that mean they get pylons? Strength D XL blast templates anyone?:D

AlexHolker
25-01-2011, 23:28
SM here, I debated posting anything, but some others have persuaded me. I have just a few things for the rumored summer of fliers I first mentioned here.
If you're right, this is rather a poor development. Being a would-be Sisters player I'd far rather see a Summer of Plastic Infantry Kits, but I was at least hoping that the iconic fliers would get a plastic kit. No Thunderhawk, no Thunderbolt and no Fighta-Bomma renders the whole thing rather boring.

dreamwarder
26-01-2011, 00:03
Thank you Stickmonkey - any rumour is a good rumour and I'm always grateful for anything you bring.

This also sounds pretty realistic to me

sean_scanlon2000
26-01-2011, 00:45
thanks SM always glad to hear about the tantalizing bits of info you drop. and summer for flyers sounds fine with me just gonna have to wait and see rules and how the kits look and then go from there.

Stickmonkey
26-01-2011, 02:23
I'd be very surprised if they released the Nightwing and Raven as a combined kit, if only because I can't think of another time GW released a single box that was supposed to cover two races. Even Chaos get their own boxes for imperial stuff with extra spikey sprues and minor weapon variations.

Harlequins
Rhinos
Greater daemons
Daemon princes
Dreadnaughts
Storm raven

That's just multiple codex off my head, but within codex there lots of dual use kits too. I don't put it past GW at all given a premium on shelf space and the new flyer price point set by the storm raven.

natfka
26-01-2011, 02:27
I am more curious if these new fliers will be able to be used in a standard 40k game or if it will be a seperate ruleset. I would love to get my hands on a thunderbolt or two for standard games.

Fable
26-01-2011, 03:07
Harlequins
Rhinos
Greater daemons
Daemon princes
Dreadnaughts
Storm raven

That's just multiple codex off my head, but within codex there lots of dual use kits too. I don't put it past GW at all given a premium on shelf space and the new flyer price point set by the storm raven.

Most of these I would argue don't apply as even Grey Knights are essentially the same race as other space marines, and Daemons and Chaos are essentially two shades of the same color.

However, Harlequins makes me think more about the possibility of it happening. You got me on the legal mumbo jumbo. Well done.

Also, thanks for supplying us with some rumors to blather on about.

Sgt John Keel
26-01-2011, 05:25
Most of these I would argue don't apply as even Grey Knights are essentially the same race as other space marines, and Daemons and Chaos are essentially two shades of the same color.

And Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar aren't also essentially the same race and/or shades of the same colour (probably grey)? :p

Inquisitor Gabriel Ashe
26-01-2011, 06:23
Harlequins are a very special case due to their role in (Dark) Eldar culture.

Michaelius
26-01-2011, 06:52
Hydra is an imp guard tank designed for anti air use has rules for killing fast skimmers etc in it's dex, hope it's more useful in this "flyers" supplement than regular games.

LOL? That was a joke post ?
How can it become more usefull when already it's most broken and overpowered tank in whole wh40k?

And now even the forgeworld only barier to buying them will dissapear.

Lanparth
26-01-2011, 07:52
It makes me sad that there is no Thunderhawk :(

Satan
26-01-2011, 08:02
Thanks for the info Stickmonkey!

Sad there's not looking good for a plastic chaos flyer - the Hell blade is seriously underwhelming at FW's price tag...

Lanparth
26-01-2011, 08:11
Why would there be a Chaos Flyer? GW has show how much it cares about the Chaos range given the last codexes and no model releases since. >.>

Lungboy
26-01-2011, 08:29
GW has show how much it cares about the Chaos range given the last codexes and no model releases since. >.>

Other than the Daemon Prince you mean....

Lanparth
26-01-2011, 09:10
Daemon Prince is for Fantasy AND 40k. It was more for the Demons of Chaos, which I think does much better in Fantasy for sales and ect, than in 40k.

N3p3nth3
26-01-2011, 11:38
Most of these I would argue don't apply as even Grey Knights are essentially the same race as other space marines, and Daemons and Chaos are essentially two shades of the same color.

However, Harlequins makes me think more about the possibility of it happening. You got me on the legal mumbo jumbo. Well done.

Also, thanks for supplying us with some rumors to blather on about.

There's enough similarities even in the Raiders and Ravagers and Craftworld... crafts that I think one craftworld/dark eldar crossover flyer could very well be done (if it became a trend, then it might be stretching it a bit - would also make sense, since not being a muhreen option, getting "double the sales!" on the kit would certainly interest GW).

Zweischneid
26-01-2011, 11:43
Daemon Prince is for Fantasy AND 40k. It was more for the Demons of Chaos, which I think does much better in Fantasy for sales and ect, than in 40k.

You think? The kit included rather specific CSM bits, was modelled on the old metal CSM-Daemon Prince rather specifically, and 40K far outsells Fantasy, including in the Chaos division.

Idaan
26-01-2011, 12:01
There's enough similarities even in the Raiders and Ravagers and Craftworld... crafts that I think one craftworld/dark eldar crossover flyer could very well be done (if it became a trend, then it might be stretching it a bit - would also make sense, since not being a muhreen option, getting "double the sales!" on the kit would certainly interest GW).

The illustration for the Razorwing already greatly resembles the FW Nightwing. The only major difference is delta wings instead of variable geometry. Now Void Raven and Phoenix would be a bigger issue as the former has some kind of bombardier's blister in the front.

Archibald_TK
26-01-2011, 12:15
Hydra is an imp guard tank designed for anti air use has rules for killing fast skimmers etc in it's dex, hope it's more useful in this "flyers" supplement than regular games.
The Hydra, one of the cheapest and best tank in the IG Codex, a favorite of tournament players, a regularly whined about vehicle, not useful in regular games?
Oh wait after the thread about IG players calling Necron cheese I said nothing would surprise me anymore so... I am totally not surprised. Yup, not surprised at all, true story!

Back to the topic even if the Voidraven is the only flyer released at that point it will still be a good start. Between it, the SR, Deffkoptas and the Valkyrie it means All Marines, IG, Eldars, DE and Orks already have models to play with, leaving only Necrons, Tau, Tyranids and Chaos without plastic models, assuming Tyranids don't get a second wave of releases in the meantime.

BramGaunt
26-01-2011, 12:24
Necrons (very probably) inexplicably left out again. *groans loudly*

Well, as hard as I pull my imagination, I can't think of a Necron Flyer, as it implies "fast and agile". I could see some kind of Sky Fortress for them. Still, the Codex might bring some unexpected surprises =)


LOL? That was a joke post ?
How can it become more usefull when already it's most broken and overpowered tank in whole wh40k?

And now even the forgeworld only barier to buying them will dissapear.

Since when is the Hydra that overpowered? It'S good, but not that good. It shines against Eldar Armies, but out of that... it's fragile as hell. Overuse and abuse of something doesn't make it overpowered, otherwise I'd like to see your nine Hydras perform against my 3 Land Raider Achilles ;)

NixonAsADaemonPrince
26-01-2011, 12:36
Since when is the Hydra that overpowered? It'S good, but not that good. It shines against Eldar Armies, but out of that... it's fragile as hell. Overuse and abuse of something doesn't make it overpowered, otherwise I'd like to see your nine Hydras perform against my 3 Land Raider Achilles ;)

Well put. It's good, but definitely not tremendous. The damned Vendatta on the other hand....

On topic, I'm looking forward to this expansion, 40k big kits tend to be pretty cool, and the rules should be fun.

Mewy
26-01-2011, 12:39
Well, as hard as I pull my imagination, I can't think of a Necron Flyer, as it implies "fast and agile". I could see some kind of Sky Fortress for them. Still, the Codex might bring some unexpected surprises =)

Aren't necrons in BFG insanely manoeuvrable? I've heard on the forums that they can do full 180 without losing speed.

BramGaunt
26-01-2011, 12:39
I would judge the Vendetta stronger aswell. Still, it's a question of who, where, when and how if you consider it's strength. I admit the IG Codex is very strong and has some unbalanced aspects about it. But 90% of the time you should play with friends, and they should be able to produce nice and balanced lists. There's nothing wrong with playing one Vendetta, or maybe two, same goes for Hydras, Medusae, Forge World Miniatures, etc. A lot of hate could be avoided if people considered that the game's not about winning.

AlexHolker
26-01-2011, 12:45
...leaving only Necrons, Tau, Tyranids and Chaos without plastic models, assuming Tyranids don't get a second wave of releases in the meantime.
...and Sisters. But really, given how unlikely it is that GW would make a cool =][= Gun-Cutter, all we can hope for is an AA mount for the Exorcist.


Well, as hard as I pull my imagination, I can't think of a Necron Flyer, as it implies "fast and agile". I could see some kind of Sky Fortress for them.
That's my take, too: something out of Stargate that slowly hovers around, using weaponised teleporter technology (i.e. Gauss-Flayers) to kidnap specimens en masse.

DeadInTheHead
26-01-2011, 12:51
Thanks for the information Stickmonkey. It only takes one thoughtless muppet to ruin your day, but the majority here are truly thankful for any light that can be shone into the GW process.

From Planetstrike onwards I've basically ignored the printed supplements and just concentrated on the shiny toys, it minimises the disappointment. I'd sort of take heart if my army was being ignored with this release, because it might indicate that they'll be ready in the not too distant.

Anyone have any straws that need to be clutched ? :D

deadly claris
26-01-2011, 14:27
Well well well http://www.dezwaluw.org/img/fun/well-well-well.jpg
If ther is a "summer of flyers" I find it hard to believe ther will be 4-5 new modells kits for the flyers in say 3 months

think of the cost it would take to make them and the profits of selling them it dont make sens too me

TimLeeson
26-01-2011, 14:34
Ah, typical - I expected necrons to not get anything, and it's probably true. Shame as that would of been the only thing id of been interested in - I love the necron ships in BFG, and a flier in that half-moon/crescent style would of been nice but dont expect they'd do actually anything that awesome.

Col. Dash
26-01-2011, 14:37
Sweet, hopefully these will be standard rules and not expansion rules. About time my Vendettas, Vultures and Valks act like flyers and not aircraft flying low enough for every joe with a sword to hit them and knock them down.

Thunderhawks while cool wouldnt work for this as they are structure point vehicles and not fit for normal games(doesnt mean I think they would never do it since Baneblades were such great sellers). I can see Storm Ravens getting an errata allowing them for all Space marines or having access to that anti-aircraft whirlwind.

Woot! DE aircraft might get me to actually build an army.

laudarkul
26-01-2011, 14:40
So for IG we get the Hydra and maybe a Thunderbolt plastic? Sound interesting, at least for Hydra's (I have 2 from FW and another one is welcome, just curios if there are any rumors about the prices:) ).
Right now I intend to acquire a Lightning to join the Thunderbolt and I hope to have the rules for it in the new supplement.

Wimvh
26-01-2011, 14:43
That's just multiple codex off my head, but within codex there lots of dual use kits too. I don't put it past GW at all given a premium on shelf space and the new flyer price point set by the storm raven.

True, and given that I find the DE Venom transports' (art) design to be very akin to the Craftworld Eldar tanks... I guess it will be far from the last one as well.

Scelerat
26-01-2011, 14:48
No Thunderhawk, no Thunderbolt and no Fighta-Bomma renders the whole thing rather boring.

You are aware that there are more than 3 playable races in 40k, right? Say boring for you. As an Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau player, I'm quite happy about it all.

Thanks for the news, Stickmonkey. :)

Col. Dash
26-01-2011, 15:15
@Alex- You also are aware we already have plastic flying kits for IG in the form of Valks and Vendettas?

Fable
26-01-2011, 15:17
Well well well http://www.dezwaluw.org/img/fun/well-well-well.jpg
If ther is a "summer of flyers" I find it hard to believe ther will be 4-5 new modells kits for the flyers in say 3 months

think of the cost it would take to make them and the profits of selling them it dont make sens too me

Actually what he said is there would possibly be 3 new kits, a Harpy, a Hydra and a Raven that MAY double as an Eldar kit.

Only two of those kits are flyers at all. While I'm not sure what the return on the Harpy would be I'm fairly certain the Raven will see a huge return especially if it doubles as a Nightwing/Phoenix. If GW released a single kit that could be a Raven/Bomber or Nightwing/PHoenix it would be four seperate builds in a single kit and I'd be incredibly surprised if that kit wouldn't make a ton of money. At the same time I think it's pretty safe to suggest that if gw did decide to go that route that they're trying out a new sales model on one of their more popular races that we could see rolled into the entire line of 40k. My understanding was that the Night Spinner was a success so... fingers crossed.

What he did indicate is that rules could get released for other flyers but models would not be produced at the time of the July release.

All in all it's not that massive of a rumor. While I could see the actual release being more conservative than this rumor I wouldn't expect it to be too crippled if the release does happen.

Erwos
26-01-2011, 15:19
Fighta-Bommas are also just Thunderbolts with conversions. Slap some Orky bitz on, and you're set.

AlexHolker
26-01-2011, 15:30
@Alex- You also are aware we already have plastic flying kits for IG in the form of Valks and Vendettas?
Yes, I know, and they are nice kits. But they don't have the same nostalgia value as the Thunderbolt. It would be like if we'd been given a plastic Macharius but no plastic Baneblade.

Hendarion
26-01-2011, 15:33
Fighta-Bommas are also just Thunderbolts with conversions. Slap some Orky bitz on, and you're set.
Maybe those guys are not interested to see a new set of rules for which they can kitbash something, but maybe they want to see a new model released? You know... an official model with collective purpose...

Erwos
26-01-2011, 15:40
Maybe those guys are not interested to see a new set of rules for which they can kitbash something, but maybe they want to see a new model released? You know... an official model with collective purpose...
Is it really kitbashing if GW does it the same way?

If you're an Ork player who's afraid to kitbash, my condolences. That's been the modus operandi for that army since forever. But, the other thing you could infer is that tossing in a sprue (or making it direct order) to Orkify the Thunderbolt would not be a terribly hard thing to do.

Faeslayer
26-01-2011, 15:47
Is it really kitbashing if GW does it the same way?

If you're an Ork player who's afraid to kitbash, my condolences. That's been the modus operandi for that army since forever.

...and up until around 2008, when they decided to make it a properly supported range. :)

It's fully possible now, and perfectly fine, to play Orks and not be a plasticard hero.

Hendarion
26-01-2011, 15:48
Well, personally I don't care about Orks. Not at all. But I wanted to point out that some players here might enjoy official detailed material for a collective purpose and do not enjoy to buy some Star-Wars toys, paint 'em red, put on some rust and some random extra plates of polystrol and call it "pimp convurgeonz".

N3p3nth3
26-01-2011, 16:32
...and up until around 2008, when they decided to make it a properly supported range. :)

It's fully possible now, and perfectly fine, to play Orks and not be a plasticard hero.

But, considering that the majority of that stuff is supposed to be, well, looted, ripping off imperial stuff and slapping some bitz seems pretty appropriate to me.

Of course, I'm sitting here on my sleek dais, twisting my refined nostrils at the horribly... square mon-keigh crafts, anyway. :)

Faeslayer
26-01-2011, 16:47
But, considering that the majority of that stuff is supposed to be, well, looted, ripping off imperial stuff and slapping some bitz seems pretty appropriate to me.


Oh, it's true. I'm just saying that "you play orks, so you have to scratchbuild and kitbash" isn't true anymore. It's completely reasonable to want an official kit that looks truly orky and doesn't take three months to build.

MoonlightSonata
26-01-2011, 17:12
Well, as hard as I pull my imagination, I can't think of a Necron Flyer, as it implies "fast and agile". I could see some kind of Sky Fortress for them. Still, the Codex might bring some unexpected surprises =)

They have Obelisks which are floating platforms that are armed with particle whips. They are used to defend monoliths or deep strike into enemy positions to cause chaos IIRC. Here's someones attempt to make one using a fan made apocalypse data sheet as a reference:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2008/01/necron-obelisk-apoc-datasheets.html

AlphariusOmegon20
26-01-2011, 17:38
Daemon Prince is for Fantasy AND 40k. It was more for the Demons of Chaos, which I think does much better in Fantasy for sales and ect, than in 40k.

LOL The DP in Fantasy is a horrid choice for it's points, compared to the GD.

You're still better off taking a GD.

Seriously though, I see more DP's in 40K armies than I have ever seen in fantasy ones.

AlphariusOmegon20
26-01-2011, 17:42
Between it, the SR, Deffkoptas and the Valkyrie it means All Marines, IG, Eldars, DE and Orks already have models to play with, leaving only Necrons, Tau, Tyranids and Chaos without plastic models, assuming Tyranids don't get a second wave of releases in the meantime.

ALL marines don't currently get the SR. Only GK and BA do.

I'm somewhat curious to see if 'Nids will get a good looking Harpy..... The god awful looking SR concerns me on that point.

Azzy
26-01-2011, 17:45
Actually what he said is there would possibly be 3 new kits, a Harpy, a Hydra and a Raven that MAY double as an Eldar kit.

Quote and bold for emphasis. And Great Justice!!!


Back to the topic even if the Voidraven is the only flyer released at that point it will still be a good start. Between it, the SR, Deffkoptas and the Valkyrie it means All Marines, IG, Eldars, DE and Orks already have models to play with, leaving only Necrons, Tau, Tyranids and Chaos without plastic models, assuming Tyranids don't get a second wave of releases in the meantime.

I think you overemphasize the Deffcoptas (jetbikes) for a flier supplement. Tyranids, while unlikely to ever get a proper flier, still have the Harpy bio-flier, and Gargoyles also fit the role of non-flier flying units (much like Ork Deffcoptas, as you mentioned). All of the Tau's fish could (and, IMO, should) easily double as fliers (as, IIRC, that's pretty much what they are in the fluff) and the various drones could easily fit in the same category as Gargoyles and Deffcoptas. Necrons, too, could have a "virtual flier" in the form of the Monolith and likely may gain some other unit when their codex turns up later this year.


...and Sisters. But really, given how unlikely it is that GW would make a cool =][= Gun-Cutter, all we can hope for is an AA mount for the Exorcist.

Access to the Valkyrie would be the most fitting. Heck, I've already encouraged my friend and local SoB player to take Valkyries as dedicated transports for his Dominion and/or Celestian squads in the hope that the next codex allows something to that effect.


Ah, typical - I expected necrons to not get anything, and it's probably true.

You do realize that they'll likely get a new codex in November if the rumors bear out?


If you're an Ork player who's afraid to kitbash, my condolences. That's been the modus operandi for that army since forever.

No, that's the MO that's been foisted upon us because of a lack of appropriate models during 3rd and 4th edition and the lack of empathy from players of armies that had more extensive model ranges. That argument is also pure BS--no player of any army should be expected to produce their own models. That's GW's job. Not all players have the time, skill and/or inclination to scratchbuild or kitbash their own models. Some players have lives and hobbies outside of 40K. Just because such a player chooses the Ork army to play doesn't mean he or she now has an addition responsibility that isn't shared by players or other armies. Thankfully, GW has been closing the gaps in our model range so we don't have to put up with decidedly fallacious arguments or the ubiquitous, barely converted Imperial models that have plagued gaming tables for over a decade.

Goatboy
26-01-2011, 19:34
Well, as hard as I pull my imagination, I can't think of a Necron Flyer, as it implies "fast and agile". I could see some kind of Sky Fortress for them. Still, the Codex might bring some unexpected surprises =)
How about this blast from my (increasingly)distant childhood ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31408335@N03/3463755060/in/photostream/

Lord Damocles
26-01-2011, 19:43
Well, as hard as I pull my imagination, I can't think of a Necron Flyer, as it implies "fast and agile". I could see some kind of Sky Fortress for them. Still, the Codex might bring some unexpected surprises =)
'...specialist troops such as pariahs, as well as larger war machines, aerial forces, and starships.'
Apocalypse, pg.153

'...fighter craft folded up in their verticle launch bays like colonies of bats...'
Hellforged, pg.170

Image of Necron aerial units in Apocalypse, pg.33 (attached).

BramGaunt
26-01-2011, 20:04
Great, they ripped of Stargate =D

But what is Hellforged?

Lord Damocles
26-01-2011, 20:08
Hellforged (http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Hellforged.html)

Darnok
26-01-2011, 20:15
I really should take a picture of that superheavy Necron flyer I built and painted fr a friend of mine a year ago...

Apart from that: I'd be very pleased with more WD rule sets. While they might not be that special, they always bring a bit of fresh air - and that's hardly a bad thing. And new models? Yes, please!

I still take all of this with more than the usual dose of salt...

monkeyking
26-01-2011, 20:37
Aren't Monoliths skimmers? If they aren't how do they move?

Also wouldn't destroyers count as a flying unit, since it's a jetbike effectively?

Chem-Dog
26-01-2011, 20:43
Cheap chimera-chassis unit with 2 TL autocannons (and a heavy bolter, just in case) that ignore cover saves from flat-out movement/turboboost ? Sounds pretty useful already.

75 points of quad autocannon joy. Oh and they come in squardons :evilgrin:


Ah, typical - I expected necrons to not get anything, and it's probably true. Shame as that would of been the only thing id of been interested in

Could be that a Necron flyer wil part of the Necron codex release. It makes sense to include as many of the flyers in their home book.


Fighta-Bommas are also just Thunderbolts with conversions. Slap some Orky bitz on, and you're set.

Park it in a Battlewaggon :D


ALL marines don't currently get the SR. Only GK and BA do.

Grey Knights are RUMOURED to....

Crazy Ivan
26-01-2011, 20:49
Hydras would be very nice! I was expecting those at some point. The rest sounds very interesting as well (although I wonder how far the whole aerial combat thing could be taken for normal 40k games, as you'd run out of table pretty fast if you tried to have even remotely believable dogfights...?)


Grey Knights are RUMOURED to....
Quite likely, though, as Grey Knight symbols are included in the StormRaven kit.

As for Necrons, in the Rulebook, "Fall of Damnos" section, it also mentioned that of the reconnaissance Thunderbolts, "none return". So the Undead Robots should have some form of aerial attack, at least. Destroyers and Monoliths seem to fit the bill quite nicely...


EDIT: Woooh! I'm a Chapter Master!

sluagh
26-01-2011, 21:02
In BFG, Necrons have the fastest ships of the 40K universe, but have not fighters and bombers. In a previous edition of its rules, it was mentioned that colonies of scarabs used for assaults at close range.
It would also be possible some sort of droid-like heavy raiders or raiders displayed in the series Battlestar Galactica.

Fable
26-01-2011, 21:36
Grey Knights are RUMOURED to....

I would think the grey knight iconography included on the sprue and the art work of a GK SR on the back of the box would pretty much confirm that rumor? I don't even know that the mythbusters would demand much more than that (though they probably would blow one up just for kicks).

blooddragon
26-01-2011, 22:34
Seeing as no-one replied when I last posted it:



Every time I heard about this summer of 'flyers' expansion I raise an eyebrow in suspicion and disbelief :eyebrows:


At the moment we have -

The Stormraven and the Valkyrie

Both of which are flyers, yes... but it'd be a pretty dull expansion I think we can agree, and hardly a 'summer of flyers'.

So lets have a look at the 'potential' flyers people keep bandying about (but which we've heard nothing about whatsoever, ever.)


Dark Eldar: Void-raven/Razorwing
Tau: Barracuda
Orks: Fighta-bomba
Eldar: what, a phoenix? Vampire? Something new?
Tyranids: ... the harpie?
Chaos: ...nothing? Hell blade? (My pointless detector says: POINTLESS)
Daemons: ...nothing
Necrons: ...nothing


Now lets be something less than completely deluded and propose GW decides to actually make a kit for one of the above.

In fact, lets go nuts and say two.

Which of those above (in the 'potential' list) do they go ahead and make? But remember that:

ALL of them are big, high-capital investments and standout releases.
All of them are insanely high risk (after all, they're mostly xenos... and who plays those?)
All but 1 of them are not actually an entry in their respective codex, and so would require a White Dwarf patch (and look at all the fuss the Stormraven White Dwarf entry is making)
Only 2 of them would be for a fifth edition codex - so completely altering GW's release strategy
They would have to be released very close together - possibly in the same month - in order to form a summer expansion.



Even if we've gone totally nuts, and broken every sales strategy GW has ever stuck to, we've ended up with probably 3, MAYBE 4 actual fliers including what we've already got.

Ok, so you could probably squeeze out a 'summer of flyers' out of that,... but you've got to ask yourself, why bother? Why not use the production time to stimulate sales of a whole army instead? Because the proposal is nothing like 'spearhead' - which was basically just giving everyone an excuse to buy tons of models already on the shelves (plus a couple of new ones). A 'summer of flyers' is hardly an effective way of inserting big, expensive, capital-intensive kits into the market. You don't market big investments by giving 4 of them to your customer base all at once - because the customer doesn't have the money to buy them all.


It's just ludicrous, and clearly a half-baked invented rumour based on the fact that the last 2 codexes have included a flying vehicle.

AlexHolker
26-01-2011, 23:07
All but 1 of them are not actually an entry in their respective codex, and so would require a White Dwarf patch (and look at all the fuss the Stormraven White Dwarf entry is making)
You apparently haven't realised that the fuss over the Stormraven WD entry is specifically because it's not a White Dwarf patch. That is literally the whole problem people have with it.


You don't market big investments by giving 4 of them to your customer base all at once - because the customer doesn't have the money to buy them all.
Actually, that's exactly why you do: if your customers don't have the money to buy them all, what makes you think they've got the money to buy an entirely new Space Marine or Imperial Guard army they need to take part in the fun?

NixonAsADaemonPrince
26-01-2011, 23:13
And also, Hastings as well as others have confirmed the Voidraven/Razorwing for the Dark Eldar second wave, which is supposed to be hitting some time after GKs.

Stickmonkey
26-01-2011, 23:52
I feel compelled to pipe in for blooddragon here.

First, as I alluded to in my op, the models specifically tied to this are "codex" models...the others being available already from FW. Gw and FW have seen a much tighter integration over the past year, and it makes soo much sense to use WD and a simple "Flyer" article to market all the available kits as well as new ones. It's a synergistic strategy capitalizing on new and old model sales and support sales across all codex lines.

Second, the night wing/razor wing are not large models, they are slightly smaller than a valk, so well within existing wheelhouses, at least in terms of bulk...they may be longer, but definitely sleeker. The hydra is essentially one more sprue and a chimera. And the harpy is not much bigger than a carnifex or trygon. So saying they are going nuts with these, I repeat, "rumored" releases is a bit of a stretch.

Last, while I coined it summer of flyers, that was mostly in homage to what the spearhead article was like. Let me set the record right now that that should be the standard of the scale here. A wd semi dedicated to just 40k flyers and some special rules/missions. Anyone reading more into it and hoping for orcas in plastic and ginormous plastics thunderhawks better go have a sanity check. Heck, even Bols is now publishing articles about a "Summer of flyers". It's just a catchy reference, but it is starting to lead to a bit of overblown expectations.

DuskRaider
26-01-2011, 23:56
And how exactly are Hell Blades pointless? there are also Hell Talons, which fill out the bomber role as well.

prowla
26-01-2011, 23:58
Now lets be something less than completely deluded and propose GW decides to actually make a kit for one of the above.

In fact, lets go nuts and say two.

Which of those above (in the 'potential' list) do they go ahead and make? But remember that:

All of them are insanely high risk (after all, they're mostly xenos... and who plays those?)




From that list, Ork Fighta-Bomma has already proven to be a popular unit within the Ork crowd, well, at least in Apo/FW/conversion scale. Plus, the Stompa kit sells pretty well, so GW knows that Ork players are interested in bigger stuff. So, Orks would be the first choice.

Second, I'd say they would cash in on the Dark Eldar success, and probably make it an Eldar kit as well, in style of SM/CSM tank kits.

Third would be small Tau flyer drones, just because they're easy to do.

Col. Dash
27-01-2011, 00:24
Maybe if we are really luck it will be an intro to true flyer rules for 6th edition. This may be a test to see how well recepted the players are of them in a normal environment without the anti-FW nuts screaming bloody terror.

Zanzibarthefirst
27-01-2011, 00:44
Nobody seems to have mentioned this but FW have aeronautica which is a flyer based game and did anyone actually see when they tried to play it on a normal scale, they needed a stupid amount of space.

Starchild
27-01-2011, 02:12
So the Undead Robots should have some form of aerial attack, at least. Destroyers and Monoliths seem to fit the bill nicely.Indeed they do, in FW rules the Pylon has an anti-aircraft mount, conferring the same bonus when shooting flyers as the FW Hydra and Firestorm iirc.



Second, the night wing/razor wing are not large models, they are slightly smaller than a valk, so well within existing wheelhouses, at least in terms of bulk...they may be longer, but definitely sleeker.This is quite right... if/when the Nightwing is made plastic, it will require about the same amount of sprue space as the Falcon.

Fable
27-01-2011, 03:01
I feel compelled to pipe in for blooddragon here.

First, as I alluded to in my op, the models specifically tied to this are "codex" models...the others being available already from FW. Gw and FW have seen a much tighter integration over the past year, and it makes soo much sense to use WD and a simple "Flyer" article to market all the available kits as well as new ones. It's a synergistic strategy capitalizing on new and old model sales and support sales across all codex lines.

Second, the night wing/razor wing are not large models, they are slightly smaller than a valk, so well within existing wheelhouses, at least in terms of bulk...they may be longer, but definitely sleeker. The hydra is essentially one more sprue and a chimera. And the harpy is not much bigger than a carnifex or trygon. So saying they are going nuts with these, I repeat, "rumored" releases is a bit of a stretch.

Last, while I coined it summer of flyers, that was mostly in homage to what the spearhead article was like. Let me set the record right now that that should be the standard of the scale here. A wd semi dedicated to just 40k flyers and some special rules/missions. Anyone reading more into it and hoping for orcas in plastic and ginormous plastics thunderhawks better go have a sanity check. Heck, even Bols is now publishing articles about a "Summer of flyers". It's just a catchy reference, but it is starting to lead to a bit of overblown expectations.

I thought you were pretty clear, the release seems on par with Spearhead. With spearhead we had some WhiteDwarf and Online rules and a Manticore/Deathstrike, Prism/Spinner and plastic weapons battery.

This would be some rules in WD, and maybe online and Raven, Hydra and Harpy. The major difference being that the Raven could make a lot more builds than we expect if it runs across both Dark Eldar and Eldar.

For example if it builds both a Razorwing and Raven I know a few players who would probably buy two or three kits. If it also builds a Nightwing I know quite a few Eldar players who would pick one up as well... and if it also builds a Phoenix then I'd pick up two myself and I knew a few players who would pick up two or three (or more depending upon their FoC slot). If GW could manage to squeeze a four-build flyer in at a Storm Raven price point I bet they'd clean house on it, especially if it looks as good as the Night Spinner or the rest of the DE range.

When you're talking about the Razor/Night wing I can't help but wonder if you're talking about cad work you've seen or comparing it to the FW Night wing?

Stickmonkey
27-01-2011, 04:00
When you're talking about the Razor/Night wing I can't help but wonder if you're talking about cad work you've seen or comparing it to the FW Night wing?

in this case just the FW version. In any case a Phoenix is a much bigger bird, and I doubt this would ever be a dual use kit for that.

Fable
27-01-2011, 04:14
in this case just the FW version. In any case a Phoenix is a much bigger bird, and I doubt this would ever be a dual use kit for that.

True, the phoenix from FW is bigger (separate gunner and pilot), but I didn't know if they'd just sort of swing the name over to match the kit rather than creating a new name for a Craftworld bomber variant.

Darnok
27-01-2011, 04:45
And also, Hastings as well as others have confirmed the Voidraven/Razorwing for the Dark Eldar second wave, which is supposed to be hitting some time after GKs.


Second, the night wing/razor wing are not large models


Second, I'd say they would cash in on the Dark Eldar success, and probably make it an Eldar kit as well, in style of SM/CSM tank kits.

Agreed on all of these, which leads to the following: if GW makes a (Dark) Eldar flyer model, it would be a good idea to create a set in which all three models are possible. I think it can be done - but that depends on GWs vision of the DE flyers. Both races (essentially being one anyway) share a lot of design aesthetics, and it would be a great way to get the Nightwing from the FW range into plastic.

But I would not bet on it.

Voss
27-01-2011, 05:09
Nobody seems to have mentioned this but FW have aeronautica which is a flyer based game and did anyone actually see when they tried to play it on a normal scale, they needed a stupid amount of space.

Yes... they played it on the floor during a couple Games Days, the flight stands were about 3' tall. It was rather crazy. It would have been better if they had pushed the actual game more and not sidelined it.

tmcan8
27-01-2011, 05:23
So the IG have the flak as AA, do other races get anything similar? IIRC DE didn't get any anti air units so...

shabbadoo
27-01-2011, 05:31
I hope I'm a bit more gobsmacked by "The Summer of Fliers" than I was by "The Year of Fantasy". Of course it won't take much to accomplish that in comparison, so perhaps it will. :p

Maxis Lithium
27-01-2011, 06:15
Last, while I coined it summer of flyers, that was mostly in homage to what the spearhead article was like. Let me set the record right now that that should be the standard of the scale here. A wd semi dedicated to just 40k flyers and some special rules/missions. Anyone reading more into it and hoping for orcas in plastic and ginormous plastics thunderhawks better go have a sanity check.

While I do not expect the game to be changed, I was hoping that there would be some nice chapter approved style rules to include the new StromRaven in a Codex space marine army, and perhaps general rules for including common aircraft such as Fighta-bommas or other aircraft that were featured in Apoc to be used in nromal, below 3000 point games.

I know that Forge world has such rules, but GW its self sanctioned rules would be nice.

As for AA, Pintle mounted weapons are considered AA, so all those pintle Mounted storm bolters, havoc launchers, etc.. would work out nicely. It's a much less efficient way of doing it, but in the same artical, they could add a note that any weapon that appears to be able to elevate more then 45 degrees up (like a razor back's turret or the guns of a Falcon's turret) that are not Ordinance guns (and thus to heavy and slow to track air units) could be counted as AA. I'm sure this would cause as many arguments as TLoS, but it's in keeping with the "even if it's glued in place, if it looks like is should be able to, it can pivot to face."

I know I'm asking alot, but I would like to see some actual air craft on the field.

N3p3nth3
27-01-2011, 07:36
So the IG have the flak as AA, do other races get anything similar? IIRC DE didn't get any anti air units so...

Having served in air defence, let me tell you that cannons pointed upwards are just one way of handling air defence (and, in the non-retrofuturistic real world, a pretty much deprecated one). I'd assume (Dark) Eldar handle their air defence with their own air units. :)

Hendarion
27-01-2011, 07:49
Having served in air defence, let me tell you that cannons pointed upwards are just one way of handling air defence (and, in the non-retrofuturistic real world, a pretty much deprecated one). I'd assume (Dark) Eldar handle their air defence with their own air units. :)

Good that I've updated before posting. I wanted to say exactly the same.
There are ground-to-air defenses and air-to-air defenses. The latter sounds much more Dark Eldar like as they have a lot of air-capable craft and engines, boards, bikes, wings, ...

webba84
27-01-2011, 08:35
And even though the CWE have the firestorm it's said to be very rare because almost all the time their own aircrafts provide total air superiority.

Shamana
27-01-2011, 09:28
Well, it does say that the firestorm is used when the Nightwing is unavailable for some reason... I imagine the bonesingers just mould the wraithbone on the falcon in a different set of weapons.

On the other hand, iirc a lot of fliers in the Apocalypse books had point costs atypical for most "regular" 40k games*. That might involve at least a little changing of their abilities, especially if the old rules on hitting them remain.

Does anyone remember how much a Vendetta cost in Apocalypse?

*: at least with their stats there.

Spiney Norman
27-01-2011, 10:57
Remember, not getting a model at the supplement release doesn't mean you won't get one when your codex is redone. Also, Orks have a plastic titan, so there's always that.

I'd be very surprised if they released the Nightwing and Raven as a combined kit, if only because I can't think of another time GW released a single box that was supposed to cover two races. Even Chaos get their own boxes for imperial stuff with extra spikey sprues and minor weapon variations.

You mean like the storm raven for instance which was designed with BA and GK iconography. Ok so its a little different, the SR is its the same model with the same rules just used by a different army, but I wouldn't expect there to be much difference between the Nightwing and the Void Raven other than weapon loadout and some additional spikes on the DE varient, the DE and CWE are both off-shoots of the same race in any case, I can't see any reason why their tech wouldn't heavily resemble each other's.

KarlPedder
27-01-2011, 11:41
Once upon a time I would have said that even if they used the same base model for both DE flyers and any Craftworld flyers they would release them all seperate just to try and squeeze as much money out of folks as they could; But shelf space seems to be a growing (or should that be shrinking) concern for GW. I think they are starting to realize that releasing plastic kits that can be used to create multiple units is more intelligent long term than trying to squeeze every last dollar out of customers by releasing multiple kits with 80% or the parts being the same. It will be interesting to see what path they take in this case.

But then who knows they still haven't dont anything about the Hammerhead kit which lets face it is a complete waste of shelf space.

Starchild
27-01-2011, 11:46
[...] the DE and CWE are both off-shoots of the same race in any case, I can't see any reason why their tech wouldn't heavily resemble each other's.That's true but with Jes Goodwin being in charge of the majority of the Eldar designs, I'm leaning more toward separate, distinct models.

Case in point: the Reaver jetbike. Jes mentioned that the basic early design is being used for both the Reaver and the next version of the Craftworld jetbike ( plus they showed the CAD drawing.)

Jes wants the DE and CE to be distinctly different in style, and that's not possible with a combined DE/CE flyer kit. He did say that the Razorwing looks similar to the Nightwing, but I don't think it will be as simple a distinction as tacking on a spikey bitz sprue. ;)

Hendarion
27-01-2011, 12:29
Starchild: That might be true, but there already is a flyer that is both valid for Dark and Craftworld Eldar: the Void Dragon Phoenix. It is a corsair craft and thus the design is independent or based on both major Eldar types. Same might happen to a Nightwing-equivalent.

Cheeslord
27-01-2011, 12:29
I'm just a bit worried that fliers might end up overpowered in regular games, forcing everyone to get flyers or AA (well thats another way GW can boost sales), and screwing over any army that has neither.

Mark.

dreamwarder
27-01-2011, 12:36
While I do not expect the game to be changed, I was hoping that there would be some nice chapter approved style rules to include the new StromRaven in a Codex space marine army, and perhaps general rules for including common aircraft such as Fighta-bommas or other aircraft that were featured in Apoc to be used in nromal, below 3000 point games.

I know that Forge world has such rules, but GW its self sanctioned rules would be nice.



I recently had a chance to skim the new white dwarf and the rules for the Stormraven are printed in there, but I didn't see anything about officially sanctioning it's use in SM armies other than GK or BA.

That doesn't mean to say an official sanction isn't there, I just didn't see it on my skim through.

Hendarion
27-01-2011, 12:41
I recently had a chance to skim the new white dwarf and the rules for the Stormraven are printed in there, but I didn't see anything about officially sanctioning it's use in SM armies other than GK or BA.

That doesn't mean to say an official sanction isn't there, I just didn't see it on my skim through.
Did you see any sanctioning about the use in Imperial Guard or Tyranids army? If not, then they made a funny mistake, because that either means nobody (except those with the rules in their Codex) or everybody can use it.

KarlPedder
27-01-2011, 13:11
I do find it interesting that non-BA/GK players seem to think that the Stormraven being made to all SM players is so essential I mean I get it its a spangly new flyer model and all that but there are units in each flavour of SMs that arent available in others I mean if SWs get the Stormraven shouldn't BA get Thunderwolves and if vanilla SMs get it maybe BA should get Landspeeder Storms or Thunderfire Cannons. I really hope GW can resist the urge to make them available to all flavours of SM to cash in I mean really you already have a boatload of different toys do you all really need another one?

HerrDusty
27-01-2011, 13:47
I do find it interesting that non-BA/GK players seem to think that the Stormraven being made to all SM players is so essential I mean I get it its a spangly new flyer model and all that but there are units in each flavour of SMs that arent available in others I mean if SWs get the Stormraven shouldn't BA get Thunderwolves and if vanilla SMs get it maybe BA should get Landspeeder Storms or Thunderfire Cannons. I really hope GW can resist the urge to make them available to all flavours of SM to cash in I mean really you already have a boatload of different toys do you all really need another one?

With the Thunderfire Cannon and Landspeeder Storm, you have a valid point, why don't Blood Angels have access to them? Nothing in their fluff describes them as being exclusive to certain Chapters, but perhaps the Blood Angels just don't use them.

Thunderwolf Cavalry are a different beast however (har har), Thunderwolves are a creature native to Fenris, you wouldn't expect to see Blood Angels riding them, because they just don't exist on their homeworld.

Just as I wouldn't expect to see Death Company in the Imperial Fists, or Sanguinary Guard in the White Scars, these are unit formations unique to the Blood Angels.

However, with the Stormraven, nothing in its fluff describes it as being exclusive to the Grey Knights or Blood Angels, just that it's indroduction into the armies of Mankind (pay attention to that part, this suggests that it's not just the BA and GK who have or will have access to it) is slow, for various possible reasons.

I for one would like to see kits like the Stormraven, Landspeeder Storm, Thunderfire Cannon, etc, made available to more Space Marine armies than currently, as it would mean these kits would sell more, encouraging Games Workshop to make more such kits.

We don't really "need" another new toy, but it sure would be nice to have one! :D

Idaan
27-01-2011, 14:08
That's true but with Jes Goodwin being in charge of the majority of the Eldar designs, I'm leaning more toward separate, distinct models.

Case in point: the Reaver jetbike. Jes mentioned that the basic early design is being used for both the Reaver and the next version of the Craftworld jetbike ( plus they showed the CAD drawing.)

Jes wants the DE and CE to be distinctly different in style, and that's not possible with a combined DE/CE flyer kit. He did say that the Razorwing looks similar to the Nightwing, but I don't think it will be as simple a distinction as tacking on a spikey bitz sprue. ;)
But if you compare the Reaver and prototype CW jetbike, they're identical except for the fins and canopy. Artwork for the Razorwing already shows a very similar craft to the Nightwing. There could be a sprue with fuselage and another one with race specific gear, air intakes, wings and stablisers. Personally, I'm ready to sacrifice the tiny bit of individuality for a shared kit allowing both races to have some flyer fun.

Archibald_TK
27-01-2011, 14:19
I do find it interesting that non-BA/GK players seem to think that the Stormraven being made to all SM players is so essential I mean I get it its a spangly new flyer model and all that but there are units in each flavour of SMs that arent available in others I mean if SWs get the Stormraven shouldn't BA get Thunderwolves and if vanilla SMs get it maybe BA should get Landspeeder Storms or Thunderfire Cannons. I really hope GW can resist the urge to make them available to all flavours of SM to cash in I mean really you already have a boatload of different toys do you all really need another one?
That's an interesting points that comes a lot. If I'm not mistaken currently, when it comes to kit that are both exclusive and truly aesthetically different from other armies (I'm excluding what are basically bitz packs that are combined with other miniatures like the SW Terminator/PA boxes and the Death Company, because a blue marine, a grey marine with a wolf tail and a black marine with a red cross are basically the same thing), I also decided to not include units that are not technically bitz packs due to being metal but in the end fall into the same category that the previous ones (regular SM with a few gizmos), namely Legion of the Damned. So we have:

Vanilla:
- Land Speeder Storm
- Thunderfire
- Ironclad

Space Wolves:
- Fenrisian Wolves
- Thunderwolves

Blood Angels:
- Sanguinary Guard
- Predator Baal
- Furiosos
- Storm Raven

That makes the number of very aesthetically different units between Vanilla/SW/BA:
- 3/2/4 currently
- 3/2/3 if everybody gets the SR
- 1/2/3 if everybody gets the SR, LS Storm and Thunderfire

Did I miss some models?
EDIT -
I didn't talk about the pre-5th Marines Codex on purpose.
EDIT-
I removed the LotD once and for all from the list.

WildWeasel
27-01-2011, 14:26
Vanilla Marines also have the Ironclad Dreadnought.

Archibald_TK
27-01-2011, 14:28
Vanilla Marines also have the Ironclad Dreadnought.
Ok I've added it. Anything else in mind?

HerrDusty
27-01-2011, 14:30
The Death Company Dreadnought for the Blood Angels, and their Librarian Dreadnought as well, although that's an upgrade to the Furioso, so I don't know if it counts or not.

There's also the Death Company themselves.

Archibald_TK
27-01-2011, 14:41
The Death Company Dreadnought for the Blood Angels, and their Librarian Dreadnought as well, although that's an upgrade to the Furioso, so I don't know if it counts or not.
I personally just considered that since it's the same kit they would only occupy one choice in the list. I understand why some may not see it that way thought, but I think it's better to just number the boxes, even if they allow to do more than one model.


There's also the Death Company themselves.
Well I didn't count the Death Company because they are no different than regular marines with the BA iconography. In fact I see the boxes mainly used to convert regular BA instead of actually fielding a Death Company. Same for the SW boxes.

The Sanguinary Guards on the other hand are truly different, they do not look at all like marines, their armor is specific so are their Jet Packs, they are even more different compared to regular SM with Jet Packs than a Baal is compared to a Predator. So I consider they have their place as a specific looking kit.

That's why I'm torn on the Legion of the Damned. On one hand they have a very different look with their bones and big fire whatever on their backpack, on the other hand is that really that different from a regular SW model covered with gizmos or a DA SM under his large robe?

HerrDusty
27-01-2011, 14:52
Ah, sorry, I misread your post and didn't realise you were talking about unique kits among armies, my bad!


I'm also torn on the LaTD, I also find it strange that only vanilla Marines have access to them in their codex, what, do they only help Codex marines?

"Nah, sorry mate, we don't do Vampires, Werewolves, Crusading psyker hating nutters, or shify green fellas, sorry. Also, we can only come Tuesdays and Fridays, my mate is borrowing the van for the rest of the week, izzat awright?."

Hendarion
27-01-2011, 14:56
I think you guys are *slightly* offtopic.

sidcom
27-01-2011, 15:02
if it is true, Im quite disappointed by fact that:

a) there is no fighta bomma or at least imperial thunderbolt to convert it from

b) it will be in WD and no separate book like planetsrike

c) I already own FW Nighwing (but I guess one more couldnt hurt)

d) no thunderhawk :)

neko
27-01-2011, 16:12
Let's be honest here, a Thunderhawk would be in Apocalypse territory due to its size, and the only reason for a flyers supplement would be if it was dealing with smaller games than Apocalypse.

KarlPedder
27-01-2011, 16:59
Thunderwolf Cavalry are a different beast however (har har), Thunderwolves are a creature native to Fenris, you wouldn't expect to see Blood Angels riding them, because they just don't exist on their homeworld.
Well I was really just being facetious to try and articulate my point that there are units in some of SM lists that aren't in others.




However, with the Stormraven, nothing in its fluff describes it as being exclusive to the Grey Knights or Blood Angels, just that it's indroduction into the armies of Mankind (pay attention to that part, this suggests that it's not just the BA and GK who have or will have access to it) is slow, for various possible reasons. And while it may be wishful thinking on my part I hold out hope that fluff isn't the ultimate dictator as to what units go into each codex balance would be my preference and the part you point out I should pay attention to could be interpreted as fluff justification for the choice to not include them in every SM Codex for balance reasons.

But as has been pointed out its a little off topic so ill shut up now.

Hendarion
27-01-2011, 17:28
I hold out hope that fluff isn't the ultimate dictator as to what units go into each codex balance would be my preference
If that would be what is really happening, the StormRaven would not be included in the Codex of the Red Cheesy Space Vampires.

kevhooper
30-01-2011, 01:45
StickMonkey as ever I look forward to your posts... And you haven't dissapointed on this one either! I am really looking forward to buying a flight of Valk's for my guard army and smashing around the air! Thanks dude :D

Vaktathi
04-02-2011, 03:38
I would destroy many peoples faces for a plastic Hydra kit. That would make me the happiest IG player in the world short of porting DKoK infantry to plastic.

neko
04-02-2011, 04:21
I just hope they use the FW design for the Hydra rather than try to do something different like they did with the Manticore.

Brother Weasel
04-02-2011, 04:38
I would destroy many peoples faces


what?

I say what again to make the message long enough

battybattybats
04-02-2011, 04:56
Are the rules likely to make the Harpy a more useful option for Tyranid forces or is it going to end up even more fragile against other flyers?

AlphariusOmegon20
04-02-2011, 04:56
Eldar: what, a phoenix? Vampire? Something new?

Nightwing


Chaos: ...nothing? Hell blade? (My pointless detector says: POINTLESS)

The Hellblade would be the most likely culprit.

MajorWesJanson
04-02-2011, 07:58
I just hope they use the FW design for the Hydra rather than try to do something different like they did with the Manticore.

I'm hoping for a Hydra/Griffon personally.

AlexHolker
04-02-2011, 09:42
I'm hoping for a Hydra/Griffon personally.
What? Salamander/Griffon I could see, but how would a Hydra/Griffon kit work?

philbrad2
05-02-2011, 08:46
This thread is about rumoured flyer rules and possible associated releases, lets keep it on that and no other topics please.


PhilB
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MajorWesJanson
05-02-2011, 12:32
What? Salamander/Griffon I could see, but how would a Hydra/Griffon kit work?

The Salamander isn't in the codex, so really no reason to make a plastic kit for it. A Hydra/Griffon would take care of both of those popular units, and leave the rest of the vehicles for a combined heavy artillery kit.

As for how, make it open decked like the basilisk, and then either slot in a mortar and crew, or a small autocannon turret, like the WWII Bofors turrets, with the gunner in the middle and two guns to each side.

As for AA for other races, the Eldar have the firestorm, Tau just need a change of rules for the sky ray, Orks can have the flakkatrakk.

Too bad on the thunderbolt and barracuda though.

Starchild
05-02-2011, 13:34
As for AA for other races, the Eldar have the firestorm, Tau just need a change of rules for the sky ray, Orks can have the flakkatrakk.Too, Necrons have the Pylon ;)

DaSpaceAsians
05-02-2011, 14:42
As for how, make it open decked like the basilisk, and then either slot in a mortar and crew, or a small autocannon turret, like the WWII Bofors turrets, with the gunner in the middle and two guns to each side.


Too bad on the thunderbolt and barracuda though.

Don't you mean Thunderhawk? But here's an idea for a Hydra that would look good
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M42-Duster-latrun-1.jpg

MajorWesJanson
05-02-2011, 18:51
Don't you mean Thunderhawk? But here's an idea for a Hydra that would look good
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M42-Duster-latrun-1.jpg

It would just need another pair of barrels...

I meant the Thunderbolt Fighter. The Thunderhawk is too big to be released with a WD supplement. I see three options to tie it to-
1. A new version of Apocalypse
2. Warhammer 40K 6th Edition rulebook
3. Codex: Space Marines next time around.

shin'keiro
06-02-2011, 14:49
Probably disappointing news to many,

Yes very :rolleyes:.. i'd much prefer a Codex release and perhaps some work in the WD for 40k special characters or a mini-dex etc.

Korras
07-02-2011, 16:11
Don't you mean Thunderhawk? But here's an idea for a Hydra that would look good
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M42-Duster-latrun-1.jpg

or, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gepard_1a2_overview.jpg

I still believe this is what GW based the Hydra on. ;)

MOMUS
08-02-2011, 09:24
I still have high hopes for this 'summer of flyers', i wouldnt even mind all rules and no models.
My chaos pilots would be very happy.:evilgrin:

battybattybats
08-02-2011, 16:57
As long as the rumour that we are getting the Tervigon this year is also true and assuming it's as well sculpted as the other recent Tyranid stuff then I've decided i'll be very happy with a harpy.

Though GW should really give us some Shrike wings on a wargear sprue or on the Harpy sprue. I have one set of forgeworld ones but as forgeworld has dropped the Tyranid terrain from their line i'm be worried other tyranid stuff may soon follow and so GW really should make sure we get these vital units.

(and GW should release some plastic xenos terrain if forgeworld is dropping theirs darnit!)

N.I.B.
09-02-2011, 07:22
As long as the rumour that we are getting the Tervigon this year
Source?



10chars

Aiwass
09-02-2011, 21:49
Well, if that rumour is close to the turth*, that can be a very nice push to CSM... If goes in FAST ATTACK, because if goes in heavy someone would deserve a kick on the throat.

*mispelled on pourpose.

Erwos
10-02-2011, 18:44
Well, if that rumour is close to the turth*, that can be a very nice push to CSM... If goes in FAST ATTACK, because if goes in heavy someone would deserve a kick on the throat.

*mispelled on pourpose.
It would fill a giant gaping hole, definitely. Probably won't make them truly competitive again (everyone else is getting stuff, too!), but it might make them less painful on the table.

Shatterclaw
10-02-2011, 22:08
At the point when the Thunderfire cannon and land speeder storm where made, or so the legend has it, Those in with the great halls of GW wanted to give the codex marines some thing that would stand them out from there brothers.. Those of the Wolves, Of the Blood and of the skirts, er robes.. er Lions.. what ever.

So those that held to the Codex got a heavy artillery piece and a speeder for scouts to use and a heavy dread.

The wolves would not get these, as the artillery was not the way then wolves raged war, there scouts didn't need a speeder to get a round and there ancient dreads didn't take to the new fanged weapons. What they did get is There name sakes to ride, and there fur brothers at there sides.

While those of the blood, got more units that matched there needs, they also got new types of the dreads, as well as new warriors and a fast land raider with wings.

As to the sons of the Lion.. who know what they will get. They like to ware dress and play in the dark places.

( okay, to boil it all back down, seeing as i was waxing poetic.. the thunder fire ironclad and Land speeder storm was given to The space marine that fallowed the codex to give them some thing nifty that would set them apart. This game from a game designer.. who's name i have forgotten as well as a few trusted friends in the stores. same as the tunderwolves and the Stromraven. Of these, I can see the Stormraven crossing over in to every marine army, for three reasons. 1, sales, 2, its a flying land raider, and we all know every marine loves them a land raider. (okay, may be not, but its a spot holder for the thunderhawk.) 3, by the time the next codex is out, 95 percent of the marines players will own a Sr, for use in apoc, and for the flying expansion. at that point it will be pretty much either stick it in, or people will keep flying them any way.)


""However, with the Stormraven, nothing in its fluff describes it as being exclusive to the Grey Knights or Blood Angels, just that it's indroduction into the armies of Mankind (pay attention to that part, this suggests that it's not just the BA and GK who have or will have access to it) is slow, for various possible reasons.""

Nope, nothing in the fluffy that says it.. save some thing in there did say they where the first ones to use it if i remember right.

Also.. i might have to slap the player of the army that has Blood angels riding thunderwolves.

Of coruse then that player might and will have all the right in the world to do the same for the three stromravens that i will fly in Russ's proper colors.

brassangel
11-02-2011, 04:33
As long as the rumour that we are getting the Tervigon this year is also true and assuming it's as well sculpted as the other recent Tyranid stuff then I've decided i'll be very happy with a harpy.

Though GW should really give us some Shrike wings on a wargear sprue or on the Harpy sprue. I have one set of forgeworld ones but as forgeworld has dropped the Tyranid terrain from their line i'm be worried other tyranid stuff may soon follow and so GW really should make sure we get these vital units.

(and GW should release some plastic xenos terrain if forgeworld is dropping theirs darnit!)

Tervigon/T-Fex, to be exact. ;)

As to Forgeworld, my guy hasn't fully informed me as of yet, but a lot of the Tyranid items were produced during the 3rd edition "style" of design. The Hive Tyrant, Hierodule, etc., are all based on that wide head, super skinny legs, quasi-Alien movie ripoff theme. I imagine the FW team would like to make some new Tyranids, but I haven't heard anything yet.

thoughtfoxx
11-02-2011, 06:44
or, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gepard_1a2_overview.jpg

I still believe this is what GW based the Hydra on. ;)

Respectfully sir I beg to differ. I think they based it on this one. [although its clearly a merge of both really]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wilberwind_cfb_borden_2.JPG

The Ork Flak trukk is definitely based on this one though..:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Multiple_Gun_Motor_Carriage.jpg

-Loki-
11-02-2011, 22:20
Tervigon/T-Fex, to be exact. ;)

As to Forgeworld, my guy hasn't fully informed me as of yet, but a lot of the Tyranid items were produced during the 3rd edition "style" of design. The Hive Tyrant, Hierodule, etc., are all based on that wide head, super skinny legs, quasi-Alien movie ripoff theme. I imagine the FW team would like to make some new Tyranids, but I haven't heard anything yet.

Only their Hive Tyrants are like that. The Hierodules, Hierophant, Harridan and Malanthrope all fit well with the new stuff, and things like the Warrior wings are still awesome because, well, they're designed for the Warrior models that GW never changed.

Fable
12-02-2011, 23:47
Looking over FW's site it occurs to me that if the rumor of a Razorwing/Nightwing single kit is accurate it means a rather substantial change to the Nightwing design. Currently it's got two belly mounted bright lances and two nose mounted Shuriken Cannons. However the Razorwing has lances on the wings and just basic twin linked splinter rifles that can be upgraded to a single cannon. This implies that if the two are in a single kit the Nightwing (which also has no option for missiles currently) would be substantially different from what we're seeing with the current FW model.

GalaxyGames
13-02-2011, 07:21
Can't wait if they really have a harpy model.. coming out.

MajorWesJanson
13-02-2011, 08:21
Looking over FW's site it occurs to me that if the rumor of a Razorwing/Nightwing single kit is accurate it means a rather substantial change to the Nightwing design. Currently it's got two belly mounted bright lances and two nose mounted Shuriken Cannons. However the Razorwing has lances on the wings and just basic twin linked splinter rifles that can be upgraded to a single cannon. This implies that if the two are in a single kit the Nightwing (which also has no option for missiles currently) would be substantially different from what we're seeing with the current FW model.

Honestly, the weapon swaps are minor changes. Moving the lances from belly to wing root would fit for both aircraft, and a nose mount with various plug-in barrels would allow for a massive variety. Even the spiky parts vs smooth parts can be done with just trim pieces to choose between.

The biggest change would be swing wings, but we don't know the Dark Eldar don't have them, just that the pic in the book shows it with a swept configuration.

4 Sprues and a flying stand ought to cover all the options, even different missiles, and would put it nicely at the "Large faction unit" price point, like the battle wagon, land raider, storm raven, or valkyrie.

Tarax
13-02-2011, 10:30
Respectfully sir I beg to differ. I think they based it on this one. [although its clearly a merge of both really]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wilberwind_cfb_borden_2.JPG

The Ork Flak trukk is definitely based on this one though..:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Multiple_Gun_Motor_Carriage.jpg

I quite agree with these. Oddly enough the first one was misspelled and should be Wirbelwind or Whirlwind for you English-speakers. Yet it is IG and not SM.
The second was often named 'Meat-chopper' for obvious reasons.

Stickmonkey
14-02-2011, 16:02
Update:

There is a concern that the quality of a few models is not where hey want it to be. Most prominently the eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

ForgottenLore
14-02-2011, 16:26
Out of curiosity, do you know, if they decide to cancel the project does that mean the new models designed for a project will also be abandoned, or will those models likely eventually be released at some other time sometime in the future?

Sarevok
14-02-2011, 16:49
Update:

There is a concern that the quality of a few models is not where hey want it to be. Most prominently the eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

Good news, summer of flyers is boring
we already had boring spearhead last year

MajorWesJanson
14-02-2011, 17:27
Good news, summer of flyers is boring
we already had boring spearhead last year

Yeah, I mean no one liked the Manticore and Fire Prism that came with Spearhead, or would possibly like an Eldar/Dark Eldar flier kit or a Hydra or a Harpy...:rolleyes:

Spearhead was basically an experimental vehicle ruleset like the old days, and a nice improvement to WD over the normal advertising it is.

Summer of fliers may just be a WD ruleset, but content is always nice, and it sounds(ed?) like a multi race expansion. For all those whining about SM releases, it is rumored to have stuff for IG, Eldar/Dark eldar, and Tyranids, maybe more. And you are whining about it?

What would you want in place of Summer of Fliers that is not a codex release? What theme and models would you find not "boring"?

Endobai
14-02-2011, 17:50
Update:

There is a concern that the quality of a few models is not where hey want it to be. Most prominently the eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

Damn it...

I wonder if a Firestorm (Firestorm/Falcon) kit is even considered.

Dark Eldar will need those fliers eventually and a multi-use fighter box for both sects of the Eldar race would be more cost effective.

kargenetic
14-02-2011, 17:55
I'm with ForgottenLore--If this is cancelled what kind of releases can we expect for codex units like the Harpy and the DE fighter/bomber?

Sarevok
14-02-2011, 18:21
What would you want in place of Summer of Fliers that is not a codex release? What theme and models would you find not "boring"?

well most vehicles and vehicle variants are boring to me, Forgeworld does them all year

something with infantry for all or characters for all would be a better release

Stickmonkey
14-02-2011, 18:41
Most of the models would have been codex releases, I don't expect the models to be abandonned, but to time an article with a model release it depends on those models being ready...so it is what it is. I hold out hope that even if the wd article doesn't happen the rules eventually find a home, maybe online at gw.

Flossisboss
14-02-2011, 20:05
Judging from the interviews given with the SR designers in the Feb White Dwarf it appears to have been designed for the Astartes in general; the Blood Angels Codex was just the most oppurtune juncture to introduce it.

With this in mind (and simply considering that GW are going to want to market it to as wide an audience as possible) I doubt many would be surprised to find that the miraculously rediscovered Storm Raven is going to find its way into the next Codex: Space Marines (whenever that may appear). Probably creep into the next DA or BT codex, whichever comes first. From a sheer fluff perspective it makes sense for other chapters (Raven Guard/White Scars?) to make use of it as its construction spreads.

archont
14-02-2011, 20:10
Update:
[...]eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

Oh no, please, No! Eldar and "to delicate" doesn't mesh, srsly? How many DE and Eldar players would throw their money at GW for releasing this model (first and foremost me)
Dear God, please release that Flyer :(

Otherwise I'll probably have to get another 2 Voidravens and another 2 Nightwings :(


However, thanks alot Stickmonkey for breaking the dire news...


let's pray for a good outcome :(

Stickmonkey
14-02-2011, 20:19
Oh no, please, No! Eldar and "to delicate" doesn't mesh, srsly? How many DE and Eldar players would throw their money at GW for releasing this model (first and foremost me)
Dear God, please release that Flyer :(

Otherwise I'll probably have to get another 2 Voidravens and another 2 Nightwings :(


However, thanks alot Stickmonkey for breaking the dire news...


let's pray for a good outcome :(
Specifically there are a couple what I would call control vanes, and the attachment point are just weak. On the prototype they break off easily just picking up the model. No one likes this, and there are more issues that need to be addressed in terms of depth of detail, for instance panel lines are not fully molding. This was all supposed to have been addressed prior and there is a sense of frustration around it.

I am supposed to spend time in production later this week, lots of tomb kings stuff supposedly, if I see anything of note to pass on I will over in wtb sections.

archont
14-02-2011, 20:27
[listing possible Problems] This was all supposed to have been addressed prior and there is a sense of frustration around it.

A thousand times this, how is that possible? My familys company is probably small compared to GW, though not tiny, and there's no such thing as stuff going wrong and falling through quality control - there should be benefits and premiums for employees who sucesfully complete a hard project, such as designing a model-kit in GWs case, there's almost no excuse for a model not passing quality control...

mfw: -.-'


I am supposed to spend time in production later this week, lots of tomb kings stuff supposedly, if I see anything of note to pass on I will over in wtb sections.


Thanks again man, I look forward to it, this sure ruined my night I tell you, I have been looking forward to a plastic Eldarflyer since the first rumour of this "summer of flyers" has surfaced


hach, waited 13 years for a DE codex, I guess I should've gotten used to it :D


Thanks again SM, you're gold man!

Stickmonkey
14-02-2011, 21:11
A thousand times this, how is that possible? My familys company is probably small compared to GW, though not tiny, and there's no such thing as stuff going wrong and falling through quality control - there should be benefits and premiums for employees who sucesfully complete a hard project, such as designing a model-kit in GWs case, there's almost no excuse for a model not passing quality control...

Thanks again man, I look forward to it, this sure ruined my night I tell you, I have been looking forward to a plastic Eldarflyer since the first rumour of this "summer of flyers" has surfaced

Thanks again SM, you're gold man!

I should clarify, so far as the general outside world would ever know nothing is wrong. Nothing is officially announced. Nothing can be officially delayed. So saying your family company never has issues is probably a bit off. The truth always is this is part of the QA process. And I'm sure that is the case for your family business. Before anything sees light of day, it's golden. Right? You also have to be aware that gw production is a huge operation. We have tons of products at various stages, it is an incredible thing to keep everything clean and on schedule. Look at how many sprues and metals are currently made across all lines. It's a production management smorgasbord.

That said, there is a production expectation that is behind internally. But that is what what if planning is for. These models will eventually come out, this summer or at sometime later, the goal is not demon prince later.

As mentioned, The venom and some other de items are already done and in packaging, GK stuff is done and in packaging, wfb og and tk stuff is in production with most if not all the og stuff already ready to go...I think they are still boxing and shrinking arachanoks :) preorders on that thing are high across the board. ;)

As an aside, we have been working with a video company to have a "how is it made" video done from art to product. It will be a neat behind the scenes if we can get it approved. But that's neither here nor there.

LoreDraconis
14-02-2011, 21:18
As an aside, we have been working with a video company to have a "how is it made" video done from art to product. It will be a neat behind the scenes if we can get it approved. But that's neither here nor there.

Yes!! I'd love to see this. I doubt they'd get too deep into the nerdy details, but i'd love to see how they approach the 3d CAD aspect of design.

Too bad about the flyers though....im waiting to use the Storm raven with my Iron hands list :(

Azzy
14-02-2011, 21:32
Good news, summer of flyers is boring
we already had boring spearhead last year

Just because you find something boring doesn't mean that others feel the same. Personally, I enjoy rules expansions that add to or otherwise change up the standard game. If you don't like an expansion don't use it, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be produced for the rest of us who are interested in it.

Souleater
14-02-2011, 22:01
... the eldar flyer ...

Might I ask if you mean Eldar or Dark Eldar?

neko
14-02-2011, 22:17
Might I ask if you mean Eldar or Dark Eldar?
I suspect the answer is "Yes" :angel:

Souleater
14-02-2011, 22:19
No, actually the answer would be 'Yes (or no) you may (or may not) ask.'

Inquisitor Kallus
14-02-2011, 22:31
Or the answer could be both.........which i imagine it is

archont
14-02-2011, 22:51
Or the answer could be both.........which i imagine it is

dito

I also liked SMs use of "we" - a friend and me had been speculating for you to be a GW sockpuppet to conduct proper and sensible as well as controlled rumourplacement for quite some time :)

Still golden though, and still, stuff shouldn't fall through quality control, employees should be highly enough trained and supervised during their work to prevent stuff like this from happening - quality control should be a "lets look into the details and look for the little unforseeable quirks" not "oh man we just wasted a fortune on the development of a product that we'll have to scrap now"



I do however pray that they decide to greenlight the Flyer, because seriously: Anyone who feels that anything is to feeble can just put on some putty and make those joints sturdy with minimal modelling skill and a little work poured into the paintjob to produce an overall satisfying model :)

Max1mum
15-02-2011, 00:37
First up - thanks Mr monkey for the information.

Secondly - Lets not be to harsh on GW's quality control. In fact, considering GW might not release the kit. And that they are considering postponing a release to make it perfect is a hint. That hint tells us the quality control manager is doing his job. And good at that.

Mr stick never said the kit didn't pass the -final- quality check. It might just be the first or second stage , in that case i would like to put forward that GW's call to slow down the project is perfect.

Having said that - i see no reason to delay the release of a hydra because some eldar is to fragile.......

ExquisiteMonkey
15-02-2011, 01:02
Thanks SM. As a primarily WFB player, I still enjoy your posts, especially when you drop (whether deliberately or not, I don't mind) little tidbits regarding WFB stuff, like just now with TK stuff in production.
I'd love for you to drop some more info (if you are allowed) regarding what is actually in production.

Keep it up!!

AlexHolker
15-02-2011, 03:50
What would you want in place of Summer of Fliers that is not a codex release? What theme and models would you find not "boring"?
The Summer of Converting Old Metal Infantry To Plastic would have been nice. Or a Summer of Fliers that included GW's take on the Thunderbolt or Aquila.

Fable
15-02-2011, 05:11
Having said that - i see no reason to delay the release of a hydra because some eldar is to fragile.......

It can shoot down all those Storm Ravens.

I think the Wings gave GW a nice reasonable target to shoot down with a Hydra in a battle report. A DE vs IG rematch introducing the Razorwing with a tank geared to shoot it down. In that way I could definitely see them delaying the hydra because the Eldar flyer is too fragile.

Maybe it will see the light of day before Christmas? If they do release it as a dual kit I'll definitely be getting one. Two if a Nightwing is FA for Eldar. Assuming it's delayed I hope they manage to throw together something interesting for July. Maybe we'll see that Apocalypse unit SM mentioned in his February post slid up to that spot?

jspyd3rx
15-02-2011, 13:47
Will you be in the behind the scene production video Stickmonkey? You'd be my favorite pseudo celeb in this hobby.

Prodigalson
15-02-2011, 14:47
As always, thanks for the rumors stickmonkey.

Interesting though that with GW out in april and DE venom's out around the same time, the period over summer if no flyer release is completely up in the air.

Sgt John Keel
15-02-2011, 15:28
Might I ask if you mean Eldar or Dark Eldar?

I sincerely hope they rename the codex Craftworld Eldar with the next release.

DuskRaider
15-02-2011, 17:28
Well, this is upsetting. I was hoping to get more use out of my Chaos Air Force... Ah well, let's hope for the best. As always SM, thank you for the news.

Hendarion
16-02-2011, 15:10
Update:

The Nightwing and Razorwing will not receive a combi-kit.

archont
16-02-2011, 15:38
Update:

The Nightwing and Razorwing will not receive a combi-kit.

Meaning there'll be only a Razorwingkit? Or meaning "the concept of a combined kit and the existing prototype have been scrapped, there will be no CW/DE flyer this summer"?

Oh boy, a single flyer would satisfy me, no matter wich Eldarkin

Hendarion
16-02-2011, 15:40
Meaning there will be no kit that combines both flyers in one box. Not more and not less.

So it might mean there will be a single kit for each, it might mean there might be only one of the two flyers or even none.

Inquisitor Kallus
16-02-2011, 15:45
Update:

The Nightwing and Razorwing will not receive a combi-kit.

Why not? Is it possible to ask where you got this information from?

archont
16-02-2011, 15:46
Hm, wax to be specific, anyhow thanks alot man, any news/rumours is good :)

Hendarion
16-02-2011, 15:59
Why not? Is it possible to ask where you got this information from?
Direct information from someone being involved in the design-process. :angel:
The reason for no combi-kit is obvious. Although they look similar, they are still distinct and it won't make sense to merge them.

Fable
16-02-2011, 16:02
Update:

The Nightwing and Razorwing will not receive a combi-kit.

Well, this seems to confirm my prior skepticism that they would do such a thing. I still think they are esthetically different enough to make such an option unfeasible. As opposed to Marines which, when it comes down to it, are all the same army with different colors. Eldar and Dark Eldar come from the same design tree, but are very, very different.

N3p3nth3
17-02-2011, 13:36
I think that the Nightwing/Razorwing rumor was a bit out there the whole time, but does this preclude a Razorwing/Void Raven kit as well?

Poseidal
18-02-2011, 10:51
Do we properly know what each of them look like? If one of them isn't pictured, it's possible they'll both be made similar enough for a combi kit.

Idaan
18-02-2011, 11:46
We know that the Void Raven has a spherical nose blister in the front, where the bombardier sits. It's unlikely that it could be fit into the flat silhouette of the Razorwing (seen in the codex), not to mention the fact that a fighter-bomber should be larger than an interceptor.

Poseidal
18-02-2011, 11:59
In that case, I would say the combined kit is unlikely. At best, it might have some shared sprues.

Archibald_TK
18-02-2011, 13:06
Did I miss something? Since when do we know what a Voidraven looks like? I thought we weren't even sure how much the Razorwing would end up looking like the Codex picture ( la Manticore)?

Did I miss a rumor somewhere in the thread? Because having the Void Raven and the Razorwing as two different kits sounds like a very risky move for GW. Doesn't make a lot of sense from my PoV.

archont
18-02-2011, 13:14
In that case, I would say the combined kit is unlikely. At best, it might have some shared sprues.

If they were to put the main body and engines on one sprue, with wings and nose of the flyer on a nother sprue, they could replace them for bigger wings / extended nose with additional canopy and probably some clip-on engines for the bomber.

Idaan
18-02-2011, 16:31
Did I miss something? Since when do we know what a Voidraven looks like? I thought we weren't even sure how much the Razorwing would end up looking like the Codex picture ( la Manticore)?
The codex describes it:

At the fore of each Voidraven is a crystal pod housing a saddle much like that of a Reaver jetbike, surrounded by targetting holographs and crosshair runes that flicker and dance over the gunner's unwitting prey.
To me, it doesn't seem like just a second canopy, more like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Henschel_Hs_132_wiki.jpg

Sildani
19-02-2011, 06:22
Update:

There is a concern that the quality of a few models is not where hey want it to be. Most prominently the eldar flyer having too delicate of pieces as currently designed. If the models don't all pass QA this week, it is likely this project will either be pushed back or tabled.

So! Any word then?

Vaktathi
19-02-2011, 08:21
I would be a very sad panda if they had a bunch of good to go models all held up by one that didn't pass muster, especially if they had a Hydra ready to go :p

LonelyPath
24-02-2011, 13:18
Good news, summer of flyers is boring
we already had boring spearhead last year

How do you know it's boring when it's not out yet?

Also, for the record, I really enjoyed (and still enjoy) Spearhead when I play it. It was a nice return to the older, tank heavy days of 40k from some eons ago :)

Culgore
25-02-2011, 06:22
So I am hoping that gw doesn't do a silly expansion this summer. Now I started this thread http://www.wArseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278524 a while back. As far as I know this was the first time this summer/flyer expansion was guessed at, are there any really solid rumours or is this rumour built on conjecture.

Hendarion
25-02-2011, 06:51
If you'd read the topic, you'd know the answer.

orangesm
27-02-2011, 21:57
First Aquila ever seen was a wrecked one in a GW starter box (not FW's build).

Taking SM's list and re-arrange/comment. This is all pure speculation.

Dark Eldar - Razorwing & Voidraven

I think it makes sense to release them both because the rules for them exist. Also existing rules provide a starting point for all other fighter type aircraft to enter the game: Aerial Assault and Super Sonic rules.

Eldar - Firestorm, Nightwing & Phoenix

Potential eye towards including them in a future Codex: Craftworld Eldar? The Firestorm is not a particularly challenging model to develop considering it is yet another Falcon turret swap.

Tau - Barracuda (not Remora)

We have already seen GW take a FW mini and making it mainstream with the Tau, the Piranha. Doing it again with the Barracuda would be easy and check the box. The Remora seems out of place for the release and almost too small.

Also, utilization of either the AA-mount rule or Hydra's rule for the Skyray's Markerlight.

Imperials
Imperial Navy - Thunderbolt
Imperial Guard, Space Marines of all flavors, and any other Imperials get to take the aircraft. It has a FW model, likely a very popular model, and durable as well.

Imperial Guard - Hydra
Rules exist, model does not seem particularly difficult to either recast from FW or develop.

Space Marines - Storm Raven (already here)
No Thunderhawk more on that later.

Tyranids - Harpy
I got nothing.

Orks - Fighta-bomba
Seems easy enough and another FW copy.

Chaos - Hellblade
Copy from FW, ftw.

Necrons - uh...
In general, there is a lack of knowledge concerning what all the Necrons could have. If there is anything, it will be entirely new and likely designed to go up opposite the Nightwing/Razorwing predecessor (or the other way around).

Super-Heavy Fliers - Thunderhawk, Caestus, Marauder, Vampire, Tigershark, Orca, Landa, 'Eavy Bomma, Helltalon, etc

All of these are big investments both for the company and the individual. Even a 50% reduction from the FW price for these models only brings the lightest of them close to the price of a plastic Baneblade, Scorpion, or Stompa. The demand just does not seem to be there, even if the Thunderhawk would only cost $300 vs the $650 it does currently.


My advice to anyone who wants to play with aircraft in the 40k universe; make this the Summer of Flyers regardless of what GW does and buy Aeronautica Imperialis (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Aeronautica-Imperialis/Rules_and_Accessories) and your own wing of aircraft. But I am bias and want to see more support for AI.

Col. Dash
02-03-2011, 15:01
You forget there are the anti-aircraft platforms that should also be released, some of which the poster above posted.
Firestorm for eldar
The whirlwind AA vehicle for marines
Obviously the Hydra with AA rules for IG
Flak-truk for Orks
A pylon with AA rules for necrons
AA rules for the Skyray for tau
Some kind of biovore AA for nids? I dont play Epic, maybe they already have one
Dunno for DE or chaos.
Overall allowance for pintle mounted AA weapons of whatever flavor for all armies that have vehicles, maybe something special for the big nids. Wouldnt be hard and would add to every army in the game

MajorWesJanson
02-03-2011, 15:09
Necrons are obsessed with the pylon. It's almost freudian.
How do we kill titans? The pylon
How do we defend our troops? The pylon
How do we shoot down aircraft? The pylon

Why not a destroyer with AA guns? Or a Tomb Spyder flak artillery? Why always with the pylon? The robots are obsessed with the pylon!

Azzy
02-03-2011, 16:58
And it's a really boring model to boot. :(

Alfhedil
02-03-2011, 17:10
You could also get one cheaper by just buying a globe and just using it's stand.

Stickmonkey
02-03-2011, 17:23
Some updates.

First, let me apologize for being dark. I have been negotiating a carreer move and it looks like it will happen. More on that down the road. But I am looking for a home in Texas...yee haw, back to the states.

To the business at hand, this is what I know.

The "summer of flyers" (again, temper this name, it's not much more than spearhead was) article in wd if it happens will be an apoc expansion...not basic game. To include formations, special strategies, etc. About what anyone would expect.

The specific plastics for the wave release passed QA. Yeah! And include the following

Ig hydra
De r-wing
Ork copta
Nid harpy
There may be a few other surprises. It is apoc after all.

However, no one seems to be certain if these items will be released together as a wave right now. There is a lot of back and forth as to how best to put them out...flyer related dump, or wait and do army based updates, meaning a ig wave, a de wave, etc. There is strong desire to complete the de models before the next codex release after GK. I don't think it's possible based on where some of the outstanding models are in the process...and what has to be done for that codex. Only so many people to do the work. You can't put 3 women together and get a baby in 3 months, right?

No craft world eldar models will be included here. And there is a reason for it, but I can't go into it yet. And no codex on immediate horizon, to keep people from getting excited...

Also, the de void flyer will not make a summer debut...its a big model...comparatively, and there are other challenges facing it...but it is coming eventually, hopefully before fall.

My information comes direct this time, but the decisions about what and when to release things I am not privy to...wd will already be set in stone by now and so someone(s) already knows what is and isn't happening in this, just not I...

Cheers. Hopefully this is more exact information certain individuals want to see. But as always, subject to change.

MajorWesJanson
02-03-2011, 17:28
Some updates.

First, let me apologize for being dark. I have been negotiating a carreer move and it looks like it will happen. More on that down the road. But I am looking for a home in Texas...yee haw, back to the states.

To the business at hand, this is what I know.

The "summer of flyers" (again, temper this name, it's not much more than spearhead was) article in wd if it happens will be an apoc expansion...not basic game. To include formations, special strategies, etc. About what anyone would expect.

The specific plastics for the wave release passed QA. Yeah! And include the following

Ig hydra
De r-wing
Ork copta
Nid harpy
There may be a few other surprises. It is apoc after all.

However, no one seems to be certain if these items will be released together as a wave right now. There is a lot of back and forth as to how best to out them out...flyer related dump, or wait and do army based updates, meaning a ig wave, a de wave, etc. There is strong desire to complete the de models before the next codex release after GK. I don't think it's possible based on where some of the outstanding models are in the process...and what has to be done for that codex. Only so many people to do the work. You can put 3 women together and get a baby in 3 months, right?

No craft world eldar models will be included here. And there is a reason for it, but I can't go into it yet. And no codex on immediate horizon, to keep people from getting excited...

Also, the de void flyer will not make a summer debut...its a big model...comparatively, and there are other challenges facing it...but it is coming eventually, hopefully before fall.

Cheers. Hopefully this is more exact information certain individuals want to see. But as always, subject to change.

Good to hear from you again! Thanks for the update!
Hydra makes plenty of sense, would sell well.
De fighter, same. I plan to get 2.
Ork Copta? Deff Coptas? Or something bigger, like the Chinork? Hope it looks better than the FW one if the latter
Harpy. Any chance of it being a combi kit with something? The Harpy alone doesn't seem to be enough to sell a plastic box.

Summer of fliers being a rules patch for Apocalypse is not bad. Sort of a rules test thing?

Azzy
02-03-2011, 17:54
Oooh... Ork stuff! Please give any details possible. :D

Thank, SM. I hope you find a nice place in Texas. :)

Nurgling Chieftain
02-03-2011, 17:54
So basically my Voidraven conversion stock is on a boat somewhere probably in a Somalian pirate port and the Voidraven official model isn't coming any time soon, either. :p

Thanks for the update! :D

PanzerRanger
02-03-2011, 19:06
Nothing about general access for the Stormraven? :D

Well have do use the Casteus Assault Ram witch I think is much cooler

BobtheInquisitor
02-03-2011, 19:08
Cheers. Hopefully this is more exact information certain individuals want to see. But as always, subject to change.

Thank you very much for the unambiguous information. I am very excited.

Does the DE flyer look like it would be easy to convert into (or use as) a craftworld flyer?

Also, I hope your move goes well.

LoreDraconis
02-03-2011, 19:19
hmm...still baffles me why they add so much support for Apoc, which is a relatively exclusive level of play. Why dont they refine and expand the basic game? God knows it could do with some balance tweaks, and i'd wager they'd sell more plastic by expanding existing army choices than adding formations for a game very few but the most hardcore ever play.

They need to take an evolving model more like digital games, instead of sticking with their antiquated model, which tries to convince people to splurge on a new army every time they redo one. They'll only ever get so many people to bite.
I thought they set a good precedent with the nightspinner...and that maybe the stormraven was a continuation of that idea...but it seems like it's a hard habit to break.

Azzy
02-03-2011, 20:37
hmm...still baffles me why they add so much support for Apoc, which is a relatively exclusive level of play.

Probably because the Baneblade, Stormlord and Stompa sold really well and convinced them that annual support for Apocalypse that doesn't interfere with the wave releases durinf the rest of the year is not only viable, but profitable. That'd be my guess.

Sildani
02-03-2011, 20:47
No craft world eldar models will be included here. And there is a reason for it, but I can't go into it yet. And no codex on immediate horizon, to keep people from getting excited...


Let me guess: the Craftworlders are being scrapped. Or they're in preliminary brainstorm mode. Either way, nothing new for Eldar...

Unless it's the plastic super-heavy we were promised a couple years ago.

Congrats on the career shift, and thanks for the update!

suprememidgetoverlord
02-03-2011, 20:50
Some updates.
The "summer of flyers" article in wd if it happens will be an apoc expansion...not basic game. To include formations, special strategies, etc.

Best news ever. I don't get to play as much as I use to, but apocalypse games around here tend to be quite a fun event. Updated rules will make everyone happy, even if it's just for flyers.

Thanks for the news update, march edition :)

TheLaughingGod
02-03-2011, 21:02
Let me guess: the Craftworlders are being scrapped. Or they're in preliminary brainstorm mode. Either way, nothing new for Eldar...


Ultimate optimism: Complete re-do by Phil Kelly and Jes Godwin redoing entire range.

archont
02-03-2011, 21:02
Thanks again, Stickmonkey! As always, awesome to hear from you :)


However, I'll have to voice my dissapointment: Not having the guts to just put a flyer-rule as official in a WD, coupled with the rules for the Chinork(I presume) and probably some other stuff as "official" as well would do so much more

think back to the vaning days of the super-long 3rd edition, when experimental CC rules were published in WD etc. GW could make that stuff mainstream, have people buy cool new kits - and instead they choose to limit it to Apocalypse?

Sadly, while I'll be buying the Razorwing probably thrice, this will be another "expansion" I won't be playing.


<--- sad panda right now


however, AWESOME for those models, though the uncertainty as to the release (together, army specific waves) could very well mean that we don't get more than 1 or 2 of these kits in summer. Wich would be the last nail in the coffin of dissapointment. :(

Dr Morbius
02-03-2011, 21:34
Had hoped for flyer rules as unofficial part of the main game. Apoc is simply not my kind of game.
Alos i presume the orky one is the kpota from the codex. All other models are also codex releases. Can't imagine they bring the chinork to main 40k. There are so many more exciting models to be redone.

Thank you stickmonkey for the updates.

Sildani
02-03-2011, 21:50
Ultimate optimism: Complete re-do by Phil Kelly and Jes Godwin redoing entire range.

Awesome attitude. So we just have to wait six years till we get redone. ;)

Michaelius
02-03-2011, 21:58
Ultimate optimism: Complete re-do by Phil Kelly and Jes Godwin redoing entire range.

I'd rather pray that they won't let Phil "one trick pony" Kelly anywhere near eldar dex after he ruined then in 4th edition and after dark eldar dex failure.

MajorWesJanson
02-03-2011, 22:03
I'd rather pray that they won't let Phil "one trick pony" Kelly anywhere near eldar dex after he ruined then in 4th edition and after dark eldar dex failure.

What DE Dex failure? Did he write the original one?

TheLaughingGod
02-03-2011, 22:14
Awesome attitude. So we just have to wait six years till we get redone. ;)

Frankly, I'll take it. The way some of these forumites talk, the Eldar just need a few minor adjustments and off we go!

Bah, where's the fun in that?!

Lathrael
02-03-2011, 22:29
I'd rather pray that they won't let Phil "one trick pony" Kelly anywhere near eldar dex after he ruined then in 4th edition and after dark eldar dex failure.

DE dex was a win with exception of mandrakes(i play it myself). The fail ones are BA and upcoming GK... I will not include SW as fail... (except wolf riders)

Edit: Also, i would like to see raiders are much more mobile on shooting (allowing passangers on cruising speed, that would fit the character, or 5 points cheaper...)

For topic, it's shame being apoc. Flyer rules to aircrafts sounds pleasing, come on, hitting a plane in CC?

Kaldanesh
02-03-2011, 22:50
I'd rather pray that they won't let Phil "one trick pony" Kelly anywhere near eldar dex after he ruined then in 4th edition and after dark eldar dex failure.

wow just wow.:rolleyes:

Dark Eldar dex is one of the best in recent years. Current Eldar dex is in need of some updating and maybe some point reductions but was in no way ruined.

Bit of shame to hear no new CWE models coming as soon as SM had previously suggested. At least IA 11 has some treats for us. :-)

Archibald_TK
02-03-2011, 23:36
I'd rather pray that they won't let Phil "one trick pony" Kelly anywhere near eldar dex after he ruined then in 4th edition and after dark eldar dex failure.
So the Dark Eldar Codex, the best designed 5th Ed Codex, a Codex that allows many different builds that are at the same time competitive and fluffy, a Codex with the best internal balance out the whole 5th Edition range is a failure...

Bah, after the "IG players who think Necrons are OP" thread from two weeks ago I still don't have regained enough strength to act surprised...

Sildani
03-03-2011, 00:21
He's entitled to his opinion. Just smile and wave people, just smile and wave. If Kelly gets another crack at the Craftworlders I'll be deliriously happy.

jspyd3rx
03-03-2011, 00:31
Ork Copta?!? Is it a defkopta kit or a chinork? This will drive me batty for awhile.

Kaldanesh
03-03-2011, 01:32
He's entitled to his opinion. Just smile and wave people, just smile and wave. If Kelly gets another crack at the Craftworlders I'll be deliriously happy.

Agreed. Everyon is entitled to their opinion even if it's wrong. ;)

I'm with you Sildani, Kelly and Goodwyn= Eldar win (Dark or Craftworld)

@ Stick monkey, I know this is a bit off topic but can you comment on what types of kits might be coming for Eldar? I know you'd mentioned nightwing previously? More apocalypse sized pieces or updates to codex units or both?

Shatterclaw
03-03-2011, 02:10
naw, there just splitting up the craft worlds in to four books.. that way they can have blue smurf craft worlds, and shadow gray craft worlds, and red craft worlds and dark green craft worlds.. also they will play and sell more like marines.. which is good, because nothing makes money like marines.. right?

:skull::chrome::D

Of course i remember the rumor a while back that the Dark eldar where going to get a name change.. so i wouldn't worry to much.

Now back on topic..

I kind of wish they where doing the summer of fliers as a "cities of death" book, they could even use it to to do apoc as well as the normal game.. i don't thing the mechanics would be that much harder to use for both.

Grant it, in apoc, you will offend have the room to fly a flyer across the tables.

Had one apoc game, back about three years ago.. was playing a Imperial tank line.. I mean 30 tanks on the table, three or more bane blades,with another thirty under the table and one Marauder and one thunderbolt.

The fliers did reap a hefty toil on my wolves.

still took out a lot of tanks..





Let me guess: the Craftworlders are being scrapped. Or they're in preliminary brainstorm mode. Either way, nothing new for Eldar...

Unless it's the plastic super-heavy we were promised a couple years ago.

Congrats on the career shift, and thanks for the update!

Col. Dash
03-03-2011, 13:00
They already have rules for APOC flying. I want rules for standard game flyers. Great, more reason to push me farther from an already too linear game after having my hopes up for something good since it is ***** stupid and aggravates me to no end when my gunships get hand to handed when flying 100kph over the treetops by some guy with a sword. I figured GW finally got its head on straight and was going to fix that, so much for assuming they have common sense.

Endobai
03-03-2011, 15:41
No craft world eldar models will be included here. And there is a reason for it, but I can't go into it yet. And no codex on immediate horizon, to keep people from getting excited...

Also, the de void flyer will not make a summer debut...its a big model...comparatively, and there are other challenges facing it...but it is coming eventually, hopefully before fall.
.

Based on your previous post about new models coming for our favourite Jetbike forces and this post I can guess there will be some mini-wave for the Craftworlders in this year.


Pity about the DE bomber, but it was expectable - something equally expensive to IG flyers seems finding its place in each recent release.

Grey Mage
03-03-2011, 16:27
They already have rules for APOC flying. I want rules for standard game flyers. Great, more reason to push me farther from an already too linear game after having my hopes up for something good since it is ***** stupid and aggravates me to no end when my gunships get hand to handed when flying 100kph over the treetops by some guy with a sword. I figured GW finally got its head on straight and was going to fix that, so much for assuming they have common sense.

:wtf: Im sooo sorry for your loss. Im sure game balance cries nightly for you, seeing as how the valkyrie is already undercosted about 45-60pts.

Guesssss what? Who gives a flying rats **** if its apocalypse only or not? If it was an expansion, youd still need to ask permission! So just include flyer and AA rules into your games as standard fare and be done with it instead of moaning about it on the internet.

I just hope the DE stuff looks like it did in their codex- because if thats the case itll be easy as pie to turn them into CWE stuff.

BramGaunt
03-03-2011, 16:37
Thanks again, Stickmonkey! As always, awesome to hear from you :)


However, I'll have to voice my dissapointment: Not having the guts to just put a flyer-rule as official in a WD, coupled with the rules for the Chinork(I presume) and probably some other stuff as "official" as well would do so much more

think back to the vaning days of the super-long 3rd edition, when experimental CC rules were published in WD etc. GW could make that stuff mainstream, have people buy cool new kits - and instead they choose to limit it to Apocalypse?

Sadly, while I'll be buying the Razorwing probably thrice, this will be another "expansion" I won't be playing.


<--- sad panda right now


however, AWESOME for those models, though the uncertainty as to the release (together, army specific waves) could very well mean that we don't get more than 1 or 2 of these kits in summer. Wich would be the last nail in the coffin of dissapointment. :(

Keep in mind, good friend, that Warhammer 40 k games mirror smaller skirmishes between combat groups, not armies. Small fractions in a bigger conflict. Air Units don't fly attack runs for a single enemy squad, therefor flyer-rules belong to apoc, where you really play the big conflicts.

I think it would be easy to adept the rules for flyers so you could use them in a regular game, in, lets say, a small group on a friendly basis ;)

Sythica
03-03-2011, 17:02
The style of 40K is much more WWI/WWII fighting, where a single aircraft would engage in skirmish style fighting with ground units. Therefore, I wouldn't complain one bit if proper flyer rules were included in the base game.

Realistically, the "Summer of Flyers" is just the same thing as Spearhead: a means to get more play-testing (and maybe market research) on possible 6th ed changes.

MajorWesJanson
03-03-2011, 17:11
Realistically, the "Summer of Flyers" is just the same thing as Spearhead: a means to get more play-testing (and maybe market research) on possible 6th ed changes.

This is what I imagine too. Also a rally point around which to sell a variety of models without being a racial wave release or a holiday.

Tarax
04-03-2011, 08:35
Keep in mind, good friend, that Warhammer 40 k games mirror smaller skirmishes between combat groups, not armies. Small fractions in a bigger conflict. Air Units don't fly attack runs for a single enemy squad, therefor flyer-rules belong to apoc, where you really play the big conflicts.

What Sythica says below. And Apocalypse may be the bigger conflict, it also includes Super Heavies and mixed armies and Strategems. You can always up the points value and get rid of the FOC, or play multiple, to have the bigger conflict without Apocalypse rules.


The style of 40K is much more WWI/WWII fighting, where a single aircraft would engage in skirmish style fighting with ground units. Therefore, I wouldn't complain one bit if proper flyer rules were included in the base game.

Realistically, the "Summer of Flyers" is just the same thing as Spearhead: a means to get more play-testing (and maybe market research) on possible 6th ed changes.

Agreed on both accounts.

stonehorse
04-03-2011, 08:50
Necrons are obsessed with the pylon. It's almost freudian.
How do we kill titans? The pylon
How do we defend our troops? The pylon
How do we shoot down aircraft? The pylon

Why not a destroyer with AA guns? Or a Tomb Spyder flak artillery? Why always with the pylon? The robots are obsessed with the pylon!

Because up until recently the Pylon is the only model we have had outside of the codex for GW to work with. It is no fault of the Necrons, but rather shows how little they have been supported over the years.

MajorWesJanson
04-03-2011, 14:25
Because up until recently the Pylon is the only model we have had outside of the codex for GW to work with. It is no fault of the Necrons, but rather shows how little they have been supported over the years.

Oh I know. It's still funny. Instead of new unit suggestions, Necron players always go back to the trusty pylon for anything they need.

Col. Dash
04-03-2011, 15:48
On the contrary, US military squads in the middle-east regularly call in air support to bomb enemy squads. Everything nowdays is precise bombing. Unfortunately the enemy doesnt neatly get into big formations so carpet bombing is a thing of the past. Its much easier and less costly in friendly lives to call in a laser guided bomb to take out an enemy squad rather than dig them out with rifles.

What I was hoping for was standard rules to bring the game up to date which would be incorporated into normal rules, not permission required rules. as long as they stayed flying they would be immune to the silly hand to hand crap.

jimbo1701
04-03-2011, 16:06
Sound lie CW eldar will have a wave incoming. Jetbike(s) and who knows what else - things that need updates rather than any new toys I'd guess.

Seems a bit odd that the DE flyers will be 2 seperate kits rather than a single multi-purpose one - the designs must be radically different/require too many parts for a single kit.

Hope the SR gets handed out to all marines. (takes cover)

Grunge
04-03-2011, 16:56
However, no one seems to be certain if these items will be released together as a wave right now. There is a lot of back and forth as to how best to put them out...flyer related dump, or wait and do army based updates, meaning a ig wave, a de wave, etc.


Harpy. Any chance of it being a combi kit with something? The Harpy alone doesn't seem to be enough to sell a plastic box.

First of all, cheers to Stickmonkey for clearing that stuff up. Many of these things point to wave releases of Tyranid (and others) units that still haven't got a model. Is there any truth in this?

I am on the process of buying Nids and I'd really wouldn't like to to buy and convert 2 Tervigons and 2 Tyrannofexes.

It would break my heart if I'd go into this 100$+ investiment and take the infinite hours it would take me to convert them and then BLAM a really cool kit comes out and I'd just cry rivers.

I don't know If I got it right, this flyer suplement will come out on a White Dwarf? Or will it have a separate book?

Da Reddaneks
04-03-2011, 21:54
Some updates.
...

Ork copta
Gosh, I sure hope this is a repackage of the existing AoBR Deffkopters.:rolleyes:

Azzy
04-03-2011, 23:31
Gosh, I sure hope this is a repackage of the existing AoBR Deffkopters.:rolleyes:

Yeah, I just don't see that happening. :D

I can see it being a three-pack with all the options (except Rokkits--the Deff Dread and Killa Kans having Rokkits were a fluke ;)).

Rick Blaine
04-03-2011, 23:51
Why would a jetbike be part of a Flyers release?

My bet is actually "random made-up thing to spice up a post" but that's just me.