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View Full Version : 40k (and WHFB) Army Starter Boxes Idea (including minidex)



Dwane Diblie
26-01-2011, 04:03
I have been working with this idea fo a couple of months and want peoples ideas and oppinions on it.

So when GW releases a new rule set it is shortly followed by an intro box with cut down mini rule book and enough models to get you in to the game.
Now we almost always buy the box reguardless of the models on board, and yes we are greatful for those awsomly cool models. But I have been thinking that it would be cool to chose your own set of starting models and then I though of this.

When a Codex is released, shortly after release an army intro box in a similar vain to the 40K intro box. It will incorperate a template set, a dice cube (Unique Colours?), Range Rulers or Tape Measure, and the mini rule book with your mini codex added to the back of it, in addition to a set of models similar to one force from the 40k intro box.

What I would like to know is:
-would you be interested in a deal like this?
-how much would you be willing to pay?
-What models would you want.

Using the 40k starter as a gauge please list 1 HQ 2 Troops and 2 additional units. Also in your consideration think of the units as being cast in plastic and posably in a clip togeather style.

Cheers.

Gingerwerewolf
16-03-2011, 15:55
Good Idea but sadly it will never be done.

The amount of time it takes to design the models is disproportionate to the money they'll make off the set.
When they bring out a new starter set, people start new armies. For both 40k and Fantasy rereleases they ran the advertising campaign New Game - New Army. If the Boxed set contains models that allow you to get a new army then they win ;)

What Id say is that they design a starter pack - Dice, Range Ruler, small rulebook and templates, and then do a deal, 2 Batilion boxed sets of your choice all for the cost of 120 or so.

theJ
16-03-2011, 16:11
Ain't the startey boxes usually 1HQ, 1troop and 2others (one of which is a slightly bigger centrepiece model)?

Anyways, what you are suggesting is basically the battalion boxed with mini-rulebook, dice and templates thrown in for good measure, then?

Anyways, due to my great love of wishlisting, I'll put some down regardless of the low odds.

Imperial Guard:
HQ: Lord Commissar (With Power Weapon and Carapace Armour) - Great centrepiece (if done right), the Lord Commissar is the most straightforward HQ choice available to the Guard, and can do a fair job as a "in-yo-face-heroic" type of leader (although not quite to the same extent as a Space Marine Captain, I guess). Should be quite inspiring for a first-time player.
Troop: Veteran Squad (With Plasma Guns and Carapace Armour) - "Standard troopers", good firepower and decent defences. They're fairly forgivable (for Guard) thanks to the 4+ save, and will be able to give a beating to most other basic troopers - regardless of whether they are Horde or Elite based.
Special: Stormtrooper Squad (With Flamers) - Gives a fair bit of flexibility thanks to the Deepstrike. Between Flamers and Hot-shot Lasguns, they should be able to provide a solid punch to just about anything. Great for teaching new players the importance of strategic deployment, as well as giving them a really "elite" looking unit on the board.
Centrepiece: Armoured Sentinel(With Plasma Cannon) - Not the most iconic centrepiece around, but it should be rather easy to fit in the box. In between AV11 and a frakkin' Plasma Cannon, it's got both good offence and decent defence (like most of the stuff in the box). Standing next to the Veterans, it should look rather impressive.

I'd recon this would be the best way I could put together a good starting army given the limitations. There are fairly few models for a guard army, but that might make things easier for a new player. The lack of orders similarly simplify matters. Note that there are still a few special rules brought along with the Sentinel (walker) as well as the Stormtroopers (deepstriking). You've also got both blasts and templates - all important rules that should be learnt early.
the army should further have a fair bit of firepower, and a bit of extra survivability thanks to the Carapace Armour, making it (hopefully) competitive against a similiarly put together army.

I'll probably post a few more armies later :)

EDIT: added some personal thoughts on the various choices.
How about including a mini-codex as well? Have it include basic fluff for the army (such as telling you what a Cadian is and hinting at the other regiments, but skipping most of the various doctrines and battle reports), along with the rules for the units included (but not the unused options or the other units available - those are merely hinted at).

Charistoph
16-03-2011, 16:39
I would rather the Battallion box be ready to go as that myself, or create a new box that is the X Army Starter Box, and let the Battalion stay as it is.

Mini-dex is a great idea, though. Now if they would just sell the mRB seperate, say, 6 months after its launch, I'd be happy.

As for what it should include:
Tau:
HQ: Crisis Suit
Troops: 8 Fire Warriors, 12 Kroot
Heavy: Broadside

duffybear1988
16-03-2011, 18:14
Well really all you would need to do is chuck an HQ figure into the battalion set and a mini codex and you are pretty much set anyway.

Although I think the price of battalion is steep these days!

Charistoph
16-03-2011, 18:52
Indeed, this is a practice that has performed well for Privateer Press.

A better question would be is: 'What is the most point heavy starting army with 2 min Troop and 1 HQ?' Specialty armies like Deathwing don't count. Than build the rest to be close in points size.

theJ
16-03-2011, 18:53
Well, I'm back, and I've got more time on my hands now, so I guess it's time for me to post up another possible box or two.

Let's start of with the classics, let's start of with the Space Marines.

HQ: Captain (With Relic Blade and Artificier Armour) - This guy is here to be what everyone expects from a space marine, he's a dead hard dude in great armour who can smack just about anything around. His lack of "ride" and ranged attacks make him inflexible, however, thus forcing the player to plan their assault (or risk losing the precious Captain before he can get into combat).
Troop: Tactical Squad(10) (With Power Weapon, Flamer and Missile Launcher) - These guys are your "main battle line". A full ten man marine squad is going to be really hard to break in a small starter game, making them a very valuable unit be anchor your battleplan. There's also template and blast rules thrown in to teach the player about them.
Fast: Assault Squad(5) (Sergeant has Dual Lightning Claws) - This is you main offensive element. Five assault marines that manage to hit home should be able to deal quite a lot of damage, but due to the small size, you'll have to learn to support them if you want them to be effective. The Lightning Claws are there because they are neat.
Heavy: Devastator Squad(5) (With two Plasma Cannons) - This is your artillery. They can deal a lot of damage to just about any part of the enemy army from long range, but they can get picked off if you leave them in the open or move the rest of your army too far away.

You'll notice this army lacks a singular "centerpiece". this is intentional. By not including a huge monstor model, the focus is kept on the marines themselves - which is what any marine army should be all about, imho. The army also includes the three "main types" of marines, as the codex dictates. This makes the force flexible, and may help the player decide whether they like the assaulty, the shooty, or the in-between parts best, so they can decide how best to customise their force later on. The force is kept small with plenty upgrades because "lots of elites" is (according to me) pretty much mandatory in a marine force.
Note that the "box" should never tell you which chapter the marines "should" belong to, or what the characters "should" be named. This is left up to the player - a small section with famous chapters would be available in the minidex, though.

EDIT:
@Charistoph:
I really don't think the point cost would matter much in a beginner army. What matters would be the overall balance compared to the other beginner armies.

Bunnahabhain
16-03-2011, 18:59
Wouldn't it be simpler to have a starter set ( rules, dice, whippy sticks, templates- missed anything?) that you can simply add to a battleforce, and you have the race customised starter?

Possibly even give it away free if you buy a codex and battleforce.

battybattybats
16-03-2011, 19:06
The dice could be not just unique colours but with the army logo for the 6. Templates could be colour-themed too and maybe card cut-out counters done with army themes?

It could have a single piece of army-specific plastic terrain in it. Lots of people would love some plastic xenos-terrain and plenty of people would buy multiples of such sets for that alone.

You could also make it smaller, one HQ and two troops, the minimum core of an army. That way two players each with such a set would have their minimum army and some terrain. Making it smaller than the current two-army sets would help sell them especially as plenty of people don't buy the new boxed game unless they can find someone willing to take the other army off their hands.

Tyranids i'd suggest: Tyranid Prime, Genestealer brood with broodlord (spacehulk style broodlord), Termagants.

jack da greenskin
16-03-2011, 19:24
I'd pay no more than 40 for one, which is what AOBR should still be.

Dwane Diblie
16-03-2011, 21:14
This idea started with just the mini-dex idea and went from there. I was looking for a way to add a reason for GW to sell us one. Then later it occured to me to put it in a box of 1HQ and 2Troops. After that came the thought of adding it to the back of a mini rule book so you do not have to carry more than one book with you. All your rules are in one place. I was then talking to someone about choosing starting forces with the starter set and I came up with the idea here of t half starters where you put any 2 togeather and play.

@ Those sugesting adding it to the existing Battalion boxes. I thought of this brefly and discided that my original proposal would be to make the models usable straight out of the box just like AoBR and IoB. This requires new models and therefor gives the designers the option to create missing units and model variant or new models (like the Deffkopters) to add to the box. Failing that the battalion idea is a good backup.

theJ
16-03-2011, 21:52
If my two lists above does not prove it, I'm liking this idea a lot. Especially since it would help solve some of the major problems with starting this hobby.

Namely:
1. You may only start one of two armies (unless you are willing to pay another... lots... of shinies).
2. You must have one, and no more than one, friend to share the box with - not only that, in fact, but you must have one and only one friend that want the other army in the box to share the box with (or sell the other part on Ebay, but that is not only cheating - it also way too much bother just to get into the hobby).
3. Since the rest of the players are playing at least 1k pt matches, just buying the box ain't actually enough - you also have to buy an additional... lots... of models before you can actually get to play any games - and since you don't have any experience of the actual game, you'd be going in blind, hoping that the units you choose will be worth the price (this would be solved because "just the box" would (or at least could) become a new army size, and thus enable battles right away).

It ain't the only solution, but it's a pretty good one.

Charistoph
16-03-2011, 22:26
EDIT:
@Charistoph:
I really don't think the point cost would matter much in a beginner army. What matters would be the overall balance compared to the other beginner armies.

Since there is only 1 way to balance forces, I looked to that. That's what is used to 'balance' a basic game now, and is even what is partly used to set up a basic WarMaHordes starter set. I see nothing wrong with using the standard definition of a game size to determine what the basis for a starter set should be, aside from the obligatory 1 HQ, 2 Troops.

Lantern
16-03-2011, 23:42
Im not sure if I follow correctly, but as I read it, the suggestion is not to replace the starter set of any games system, but rather, to replace the battalion?
In any case, I think any "starter" set for an army would either need to be something that could be sold alongside existing battalions by bringing something unique with it (such as, as suggested, a mini codex, special edition leader model etc) or simply the existing battalion system with the mini codex included (say, around the 60 mark).
My personal preference would be for something smaller, such as said mini codex, plus leader model and your first unit, as well as a "getting started" guide, with full colour images of all units available and small notes on what each unit does. I would also suggest this would be a splash release each christmas, as otherwise, this kind of idea WOULD supercede the main "full size" codex after its release (as in, year round sales would kill the codex sales).
Taking THAT idea to extremes, you could replace the leader model each year with another, once off sculpt (like the White Dwarf models), which could see collectors buying it each year anyway.
I should say that I wouldnt normally take part in a "wishlisting" thread such as this, I think the original mini-codex idea posted by Duane Diblie has real merit and had to say my piece.

Necromion
17-03-2011, 01:42
I dont think that an AOBR set really works to be honest, nor is it practical IMO, considering that I myself started with Necrons and even though the battleforce is a decent start, I was still left with having to risk buying a bunch of models i may or may not use, I.E. I have 10 immortals I rarely use (yes, I dont like immortals) thats $140 wasted almost.

Instead i think they should bring back the Apocalypse army boxes with the addition of having the codex come bundled with templates, scatter dice, etc...

ted1138
17-03-2011, 03:33
So just a Battalion/battle force set with a mini rule book, mini codex/army book, templates and dice(plus maybe some paints and brushes?), and have one for each race? Makes more sense than the starter sets we get for Fantasy/40k now.

Clang
17-03-2011, 05:37
The starter box is always a loss leader, GW's way of sucking you into then buying all the other boxes which are far worse value for money. I always buy one starter box (or two) just because they are such great value.

So I can't see it being economic for GW to have race-specific starter boxes - much as I'd like to buy them. Get rid of the current starter boxes and replace with one starter box of mini rule book, templates and dice which is free when you buy x kits? - maybe, but less appealing to the absolute beginner.

Charistoph
17-03-2011, 07:00
The starter box is always a loss leader, GW's way of sucking you into then buying all the other boxes which are far worse value for money. I always buy one starter box (or two) just because they are such great value.

So I can't see it being economic for GW to have race-specific starter boxes - much as I'd like to buy them. Get rid of the current starter boxes and replace with one starter box of mini rule book, templates and dice which is free when you buy x kits? - maybe, but less appealing to the absolute beginner.

It all depends on how its configured. Dice actually don't cost that much to make, and since they're d6, they are as plentiful as sand on the beach. The templates are just clear plastic done for years, so the process has no doubt been made cost effective quite easily. Mini-dex would be the army pages book with cut and paste of the armory, for the most part, they've already paid the writers to create all the stuff, so it's only the printing and finishing for those, even cheaper if you just leave rules for the models included and leave teaser fluff pages for some of the other units in the army.

As for the models themselves, instead of creating all new ones, just take a couple of sprues that would be put into a normal Troops box, just enough for the minimum squad size, and there you go for most armies.

The only problem then comes with the HQ with some armies, as with Tau, you have to have a Crisis Suit, so that is a much larger investment. With the most non-SM or non-Ork armies, there is no plastic HQ option, so there would be an investment to create at least one line of those.

Since Plastic is the route GW is slowing converting to, I could see them offering more and more plastic HQs as new codecies go online.

Gingerwerewolf
17-03-2011, 10:23
@ Those sugesting adding it to the existing Battalion boxes. I thought of this brefly and discided that my original proposal would be to make the models usable straight out of the box just like AoBR and IoB. This requires new models and therefor gives the designers the option to create missing units and model variant or new models (like the Deffkopters) to add to the box. Failing that the battalion idea is a good backup.

Again there is only so much the designers could do within a time frame. By coming up with a new set of clip together models for every race would take a massive amount of work, with very little return. They are unable to bring out all the Plastics for every race each time they rerelease the codex / army book. This just adds to that already mountain of work

Clip together stuff is a great way to enter the hobby but you are forgetting that there are hobbyists out there, myself included, for which the game itself is the last reason why we are into the hobby.

Id rather see them put the effort into proper models for each army rather than clip together ones. Leave that to MB and Heroclix

Lord Damocles
17-03-2011, 10:40
For a while now I've thought that the following system would be beneficial to GW:

- Sell the mini Rulebook on it's own for a tenner.
You're raking in a huge profit per copy, and people may actualy buy it - unlike the hardback.

- Replace the starter boxset (limited appeal to starters who don't want the included armies, and to vets who only want the rulebook) and battleforces (getting less and less worthwhile with each new release) with starter army boxes.
Snap fit plastic HQ, 1 Troops, 1 or 2 other units with a different unit type (use a different colour of plastic for each race; put in a plastic version of currently metal unit for the vets to want), mini codex with just the rules and no fluff/colour pages etc., range ruler, handfull of dice.

Ivellis
17-03-2011, 10:47
@Lord Damocles: That would be a much better starter, unfortunately I can never see it happening. If they were priced at something like $60-80 I could see them selling like GW wouldn't believe.

Lord Damocles
17-03-2011, 10:52
@Lord Damocles: That would be a much better starter, unfortunately I can never see it happening. If they were priced at something like $60-80 I could see them selling like GW wouldn't believe.
Of course, the main problem (for GW) would be making new snap fit kits for all races.

However I can see vets and new players alike buying them. I know that I bought several boxes of snap fit Guardsmen because they're quicker to build than the multiparts and look exactly the same; and I'd kill for snap fit Necron Warriors (to make them easier to cast you could have the green rod in solid plastic as part of the weapon).

Ivellis
17-03-2011, 11:03
Not to mention they could just release one every time a new codex is released, but still not going to happen. I would love it to, horde armies would become much easier.

Charistoph
17-03-2011, 18:34
I would be against snap-fit Troops, but since they'd have to redo most of the HQs anyway to get a small plastic version available, I don't see a problem there.

I would also keep the Battalion boxes, but restructure them so they would be filler or expansion boxes, instead.

For example: SM Starter is 1 AoBR Captain, 10 Tacticals, 5 Assault. Battalion would have 10 Tacticals, 5 Scouts, 5 Terminators, and a Rhino.