PDA

View Full Version : Hero vs Hero; Tyrion vs Sigvald



Evil Hypnotist
27-01-2011, 08:32
Hi all,

I have organised a friendly game with my friend to pitch our new special characters against each other, the idea being to make sure these guys get into combat with each other and see whos best; his Tyrion or my Sigvald.

But after looking over Tyrion's rules I can't think of a character more suited to taking Sigvald out. His ASF and I10 means he is going to go first, Sunfang's +3 Str means he will make a mockery of Sigvald's 1+ armour save, and the flaming attacks will stop his regeneration rolls.

What do you guys think, do I have a chance here?

Also, are there any other special characters whose rules seem perfect taking out another?

Trains_Get_Robbed
27-01-2011, 08:47
Is Sigvlald ASF? If so, you both will be striking at the same time.

ASF rule states that if both units/models have ASF, the rule cancells out and both strike simoantously.

About the charcter battle, yeah, you may be S.O.L unless you both kill each other at the same time. . . otherwise. . . . :(.

Evil Hypnotist
27-01-2011, 09:22
Yeah Sigvald has ASF but wouldn't it then go to initiative order if they cancel each other out? Tyrion would still hit first and would still get re-rolls from his Speed of Asuran.

I actually didn't compare WS, is Sigvald's higher? Tyrion hitting on 5s might be my saving grace.

EDIT: just checked, Tyrion is WS9 to Sigvald's WS8. Ho hum.

Poseidal
27-01-2011, 09:28
Tyrion's is higher. You need Achaeon or Valkia to equal him for Weapon Skill.

From the Flaming Attacks, I think Sigvald has a bad match-up against him. A regular Chaos Lord (with a Ward Save) would do better, or cheesing him with the Dragonhelm.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
27-01-2011, 09:38
Just say he's too caught up with his own self image to be seen fighting a lowly scoundrel such as Tyrion so he sends his loyal minions instead. Why risk getting killed when he can be admiring himself in one of the many mirror shields around him?

Evil Hypnotist
27-01-2011, 09:52
I am tempted to just avoid them getting into a challenge, but that kind of defeats the point of the game. I just need to think of sneaky ways to tie him up once he has killed Sigvald, or taking out the rest of his army

theunwantedbeing
27-01-2011, 10:53
Tyrion is better vs the Skulltaker, as he only has 2 wounds to do and gets a 2+ ward against him.
The issue Tyrion has is having "only" 4 attacks, meaning it's tricky for him to deal with 3 wound enemies in a single round.

In Tyrion vs Sigvald Tyrion takes 2 rounds to win.
In that time Sigvald takes 1 wound off Tyrion.
On average.

Poseidal
27-01-2011, 11:22
Sigvald has 7 attacks at his Strength:

1/2 hit, 5/6 of those wound, 1/3 are not saved by his armour, half of them are regenerated. Over a round, he will cause 0.48 wounds to Tyrion.

Tyrion will strike with 2/3 of his 4 attacks (higher WS), 5/6 wound, 2/3 are unsaved by armour and the flaming attacks grant no regeneration. One round, he will cause 1.48 wounds to Sigvald before his mount attacks (which will likely push it over 1.5)

Lordy
27-01-2011, 12:00
In 7th we had some great games with Tyrion vs Archaon, Tyrion could never really kill Archaon but he wouldn't really die either.

Not tried him against Sigvald but now you can't use Tyrions regen + ward he would fair much better in 8th than he would have in 7th.

Warrior of Chaos
27-01-2011, 12:05
Yeah Sigvald has ASF but wouldn't it then go to initiative order if they cancel each other out? Tyrion would still hit first and would still get re-rolls from his Speed of Asuran.

I actually didn't compare WS, is Sigvald's higher? Tyrion hitting on 5s might be my saving grace.

EDIT: just checked, Tyrion is WS9 to Sigvald's WS8. Ho hum.

If both have ASF, they do attack at the same time. Initiative is important though. If your init is equal to or higher than your opponents', you get to re-roll misses with ASF. Overall Sigvald would seem to be at a disadvantage vs Tyrion. You'd be better off with Valkia.

Leogun_91
27-01-2011, 12:14
Sigvald is at a disadvantage and quite a big one, challenge some of his other heroes for eye of the gods rolls before or warshrine them on him to make it a little bit more even.

Haravikk
27-01-2011, 12:20
If both have ASF, they do attack at the same time. Initiative is important though. If your init is equal to or higher than your opponents', you get to re-roll misses with ASF. Overall Sigvald would seem to be at a disadvantage vs Tyrion. You'd be better off with Valkia.
Isn't the re-roll cancelled out as well? Two models having Always Strikes First are mutually exclusive, so neither counts as having the rule and both strike at the same time.
So Initiative only matters when fighting models without the Always Strikes First rule.

Does Sigvald get Eye of the Gods rolls? If he does you could try munching on champions till you get to Tyrion? If he doesn't get rolls of his own, you could possibly sneak one in with a war altar?

Poseidal
27-01-2011, 12:35
You need to kill other characters to get the Eye roll.

From the results, I think the Ward Save would be best, followed by Strength.

sorberec
27-01-2011, 12:43
Isn't the re-roll cancelled out as well? Two models having Always Strikes First are mutually exclusive, so neither counts as having the rule and both strike at the same time.
So Initiative only matters when fighting models without the Always Strikes First rule.

correct. Two models with ASF fighting each other strike simultaneously and do not get re.rolls against each other (unless some other rule, spell or magic item is in play that says otherwise)

Witchblade
27-01-2011, 13:33
Get as many buffs on the unit Sigvald is in as possible. Even then, you're probably screwed.

Haravikk
27-01-2011, 13:54
You need to kill other characters to get the Eye roll.
Ah, sorry, just me getting myself mixed up with some unit champions getting to roll. Still, if there are other characters around that you can get to first then it could give Sigvald an edge, though I'm not sure I'd fancy the chance of it with Tyrion's manoeuvrability.

Trodger87
27-01-2011, 22:23
Doesn't Tyrion have a breath weapon to use as well? That with a stomp attack is some unwanted auto-hits in his favour as well. All I can suggest is magic buffs/debuffs (unlikely vs HE), any frenzy banners you can get and the war shrine for EofG. With high LD fenzy shouldn't be a hazard and if they're aiming at each other it wont matter anyway

ooglatjama
27-01-2011, 23:18
Your unit with Sigvald should be what wins the round for you, warshrined chosen will mince pretty much any cav unit he sends at you. If he sends infantry then you could just hellcannon snipe Tyrion.

Trains_Get_Robbed
28-01-2011, 04:39
Yeah, it dosen't matter what each other's I are, both are ASF, and thus strike at the same time. There would be no rerolls for anyone, as someone said -its mutually exclusive.

How can you reroll hits against what is as fast as you?

ROCKY
28-01-2011, 06:40
to be fair this is a bad matchup, sigvald was designed to remove infantry and to buff his unit. tyrion is there to kill characters (and monsters etc). now if you want a match up put him against archaon, now tyrion will have a huge problem as he cannot have both his ward AND regen at the same time. so he will be getting only his 4++ and thats it.

Evil Hypnotist
28-01-2011, 08:02
Cheers everyone, I think Trodger87 and ooglatjama have my favoured approach. I think 1-on-1 Sigvald is dead, so the only way I can win this is hope that Sigvald manages to survive the first round of the challenge and put my faith in a well ranked unit around him with the War Banner or Banner of Rage and cause enough casulties in Tyrion's unit to break him and run him down (he isn't Stubborn as well is he?! :P).

Havock
29-01-2011, 00:07
In 7th we had some great games with Tyrion vs Archaon, Tyrion could never really kill Archaon but he wouldn't really die either.

Not tried him against Sigvald but now you can't use Tyrions regen + ward he would fair much better in 8th than he would have in 7th.

"Immovable object, Irresistable Force
Irresistable force, Immovable object
Now play nice"

Warrior of Chaos
30-01-2011, 01:26
Yeah, it dosen't matter what each other's I are, both are ASF, and thus strike at the same time. There would be no rerolls for anyone, as someone said -its mutually exclusive.

How can you reroll hits against what is as fast as you?

I see you side of it, but would have to respectfully disagree.

1) ASF vs an opponent without this rule means you go first. Check.
2) A separate distinction is made regarding "I's" of the two combatants. If your "I" is higher, you get to re-roll missed hits....you're that much quicker and more dexterous ...etc. However if your opponent's "I" is better (even though he does not go first) he is more dexterous and responsive...hence no re-rolled missed hits.
3)....So. ASF vs ASF would mean the same overall attack timing (both flailing away at the same moment), but there still might be that factor of who is the quickest once combat it going. Swinging at the same time does not imply both opponents fight the same speed, but rather both begin hacking away at the same moment (start the stopwatch). The faster opponent (better "I") would still be making more headway in the battle, represented by re-rolling misses. If both have ASF and the SAME "I"....then lookout, because you have the battle of Obi Wan and Vader in episode III all over again (fast, furious and re-rolling misses on both sides). :eek:

sulla
30-01-2011, 02:59
Tyrion's is higher. You need Achaeon or Valkia to equal him for Weapon Skill.

From the Flaming Attacks, I think Sigvald has a bad match-up against him. A regular Chaos Lord (with a Ward Save) would do better, or cheesing him with the Dragonhelm.Better yet, take the characterful Sigvald and add a hero with great weapon and flaming ward helm to his unit. Add the ASF helm if you really want, although it's not that neccessary. Challenge with him. Kill the unit champ, then you're in combat with Tyrion in the second round of combat...

Freman Bloodglaive
31-01-2011, 01:14
I see you side of it, but would have to respectfully disagree.

1) ASF vs an opponent without this rule means you go first. Check.
2) A separate distinction is made regarding "I's" of the two combatants. If your "I" is higher, you get to re-roll missed hits....you're that much quicker and more dexterous ...etc. However if your opponent's "I" is better (even though he does not go first) he is more dexterous and responsive...hence no re-rolled missed hits.
3)....So. ASF vs ASF would mean the same overall attack timing (both flailing away at the same moment), but there still might be that factor of who is the quickest once combat it going. Swinging at the same time does not imply both opponents fight the same speed, but rather both begin hacking away at the same moment (start the stopwatch). The faster opponent (better "I") would still be making more headway in the battle, represented by re-rolling misses. If both have ASF and the SAME "I"....then lookout, because you have the battle of Obi Wan and Vader in episode III all over again (fast, furious and re-rolling misses on both sides). :eek:

Page 66 of the rule book specifically states that if both enemies have ASF then the re-rolls are lost.